The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-27-2020, 09:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-27-2020, 02:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2020, 02:08 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-27-2020, 01:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... Who/which party/which side has to become more socialist these days Bob?

I'm obviously not Bob, but I would like to know: when you ask this question, what do you mean by "socialist"?

You don't know what socialist means? I suggest that you look it up, learn what it means and see how well it fits your views and the positions that you take and so forth. Marx and Lennon may have been cool or viewed as a heroic figure by many back in the day. Where are they now? Hint...What happened back then is just beginning to happen now and you already know the outcome.

I don't know what county you live in, but perusal of election records show widening gaps between the candidates and parties in recent years. In rural and smaller counties, Trump did better than Romney. In urban counties, Hillary Clinton did better than Obama. So if you live in a Republican bubble, it might seem like the outcome is going to be increasing Republican support and power. But for those who live in urban areas, the outcome would seem to favor Democrats.

And I expect the population of urban areas is growing and rural areas decreasing.

Socialist means public (government) ownership of the economy. Today's Democratic Party, including its left wing, is a long way from this basic definition. Such politicians as Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders favor moving toward the Scandinavian model, which is still capitalist but with higher taxes, more social and educational programs, some public ownership, etc; in other words, people in those countries get value for their tax money, while ours is wasted on military spending, pork, drug wars, and interest on the national debt, which is ballooned by tax cuts for the rich. All thanks to Republicans and compliant Democrats.

Looking at my computer’s dictionary and thesaurus…

so·cial·ism
Dictionary.  noun

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

• policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

• (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

The term “socialism” has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammeled workings of the economic market.The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended toward social democracy.

Thesaurus

leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; communism, Bolshevism; radicalism, militancy; progressivism, social democracy; laborism; Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, neo-Marxism, Trotskyism, Maoism. ANTONYMS conservatism

The primary definition is marxist.  By that definition, the phrase does not apply to the United States.  We are in no way evolving along a line involving a state ownership of all the means of production.  We use capitalism.  The robber barons and stock owners own the means of production.

In Europe, the social democracies are quite different from communism.  Again, the state under social democracy generally does not own the means of production.  The Enlightenment memes including democracy, separation of powers and human rights are featured.  Capitalism is used to drive the economy.  Thus communism as practiced in Eastern Europe and Asia is quite different from social democracy as practiced in Western Europe.  

As one can easily see by the thesaurus section, socialism can take many forms.

Thus, I would echo Eric.

In the US, the Democrats do propose more regulations of capitalism.  The Republicans favor less regulation, in the extreme promoting capitalism far less fettered by regulation.  In recognizing that capitalism unfettered is flawed, and it is necessary to prevent its abuse, the Democrats do open themselves up to the socialism label, but they take no action to secure for the government to monopolize the means of production.  Exactly when regulations are necessary for worker safety, to prevent exploitation, to limit worker hours, to prevent things like the housing bubble collapse of the economy, is a matter over which the two parties struggle.  Exactly what degree of regulation is ideal looks to be argued over forever, but it is clear that either extreme would be onerous, and that the sweet spot is balanced somewhere in between.