The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(01-30-2020, 05:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-30-2020, 03:18 AM). Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-30-2020, 02:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-29-2020, 08:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Again, you are confused about the term. I use it because it of often used these days. Properly speaking, neo-liberalism is the supply-side economics and opposition to Keynesian economics and falsely labeling it as "socialism" that you favor.

Dershowitz certainly made a fool of himself. He wants a president to get away with misconduct that only a president can do. I don't know how you manage in that mind of yours to attribute what Republicans do to Democrats. The Republicans are anointing a dictator this week. They are certifying that a president can simply ignore subpoenas and obstruct justice. Trump has specifically says that the constitution gives him the right to do anything he wants. He feels entitled to ignore and obstruct any oversight. He feels entitled to use hush money and his own charity's funds to support his political campaigns, and to bribe foreign governments with public money to smear his election opponents.

What you say the Democrats need to do, is exactly what the Republicans need to do.

I wonder what will happen after the election. It does not look good. If Trump wins, he will consolidate power, break the law at will, and assume dictatorial powers with impunity from the political powers of the country. This will arouse mass and possibly violent opposition, and probably constant strikes. If Trump loses, he will resist being deposed, claim the election was rigged, and incite violent rebellion. The planetary aspects for this period from November through February are ominous.

You may be confused by the term since you say that it has so many different meanings these days. So what does neo liberalism really mean/imply? I assume you have access to goggle like everyone else here.  As far as Trump, I don't see him getting impeached and I don't think a petty misconduct charge is an impeachable offense. I also believe the obvious abuse of power that took place in the House was unconstitutional. You don't bypass a constitutional process and impeach. So, how many of you are willing to pay the price for supporting them? Someone on the Democratic side better step up and show us that the Democrats aren't all the same these days. As far as I can tell, the Democratic party of today ain't anything like the old Democratic party. You'll learn.

Somebody is confused.

Is it time for a liberal to try define what a liberal is?  We have Classic's demonization of who he thinks liberals are, but his list includes many that liberals would oppose.  His demonization sheds light only on Classic.

Anyone?

Lots of liberal people are confused these days. Your speaker and the liberals in House seem to think they were born and raised in England. Does your speaker understand that she and her party members in the House alone do not represent the legislative branch of the United States government and therefore lack the Constitutional authority to dictate and accuse the President of the United State of America and impeaching him for not bowing and caving into their demands. WTF! You went to school like me, you're even supposed to be better educated and more knowledgeable and understanding than me but you don't seem to be these days.

 

Go ahead and knock the English heritage, will you? To be sure, much of the Anglo-American heritage, including trial by jury and the oldest heritage of democracy in England is really from the Norse... but you would expect such in a country whose heritage is Celtic, German, and Scandinavian. On the whole the British got the best of the three and did some of their own unique innovations. The English common law (a rational foundation of our precedent-based legal system) is a good start, and if there is one reliable source for much of the combined knowledge of the late-medieval and early-modern world, then it is Shakespeare. Let's start with Macbeth: thuggish government gets horrible results, a lesson shown by people who failed to take heed...  speaking of the Brits, they were the European people most effective in protecting the Jews, to the extent that the European country with the highest percentage of Jews is the UK. The British were successful in protecting the Jews, people for whom I have much respect as a whole, by keeping the Wehrmacht, Gestapo, and SS out of their country. The British also abolished slavery about thirty years before the USA, and under less violent circumstances. If one were to have a leader ideally suited to saving a country with high principles to defend under dire circumstances against a real-life Macbeth... one could hardly find better than Sir Winston Churchill. I am guessing that Adolf Hitler either never learned any lesson from Macbeth  but got to demonstrate the consequences of thug government as clearly as is possible.

(If you have enmity toward Britain for the Irish potato famine or some colonial outrage, then I understand).

The British learned some lessons from the American Revolution and turned their parliamentary system into a genuine democracy by making it representative. That has served as a viable model for democracy in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Israel, Botswana and (with some qualifications) India and South Africa. The closest early imitation of the United States for political form was Switzerland... not bad. Of course the Swiss did not have chattel slavery...

The best argument for a Presidential system is a good President -- like Obama. The best argument for a parliamentary system is a bad President -- like the execrable Donald Trump. 
      

Quote:I suggest the liberals get together and get there shit straight before attempting to define what liberal means. Dude, you went overboard with your use of extreme and now you going over board with you use of demonization. My advice to you, grow up and find a pair because I'm getting sicked and tired of childaults.

We liberals are as knowledgeable about anti-diarrhea medications as conservatives are. [/snark]

We well know the fundamental traditions that, when the political system adheres to them, assure a representative and responsible government. We know as well as conservatives the need for checks and balances, division of power, and rule of law.  We know our history, and we well know the faults of pathological leaders from Nero to Satan Hussein by way of Commodus, Vlad Tepes (Dracula), Timur Lenk, Ivan the Terrible, George III, Lenin, Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, Tojo, Mao, Kim il-Sung, Fidel Castro, Idi Amurderin', Haile Mengistu, Jorge Videla, and Agosto Pinochet.  

Donald Trump has so far been the most despotic of American Presidents, holding the fundamental traditions of our system in contempt. I am not going to put him quite in the category of the above serial mass-killers... but at this point I can say that he is too far down the road to fascism to be a conservative. When it comes to respect for benign institutions and heritage... Obama is the conservative and Trump is the dangerous radical.  

Trump has turned one Party into largely a collection of toadies even if those toadies may have won office long before him and could have reasonably expected to outlast him. A legislature submissive to the executive leadership, something that the chief leader demands, implies the death of democracy.  Trump wants Congress to operate much like the Supreme Soviet from Lenin to Chernenko or Hitler's Reichstag... or the Iraqi Parliament under Satan Hussein.

No, it is your politicians who have surrendered their souls and spines. We Democrats have resisted a President who has acted despotically, shown no kindness, issued inflammatory rhetoric, and even sold out national security for some political advantage. The fault isn't liberals this time; the fault is a paucity of genuine conservatives who recognize the ominous nature of any trend toward fascism. Do not be fooled: fascism that drapes itself in the American flag will be no less odious than fascism that draped itself in... let us say, the Japanese flag.

If you want courage -- then look at Senator Doug Jones, D-AL, who prosecuted fascist pigs who bombed a church with the consequent death of four girls. He is standing up to Donald Trump just as he stood up to KKK fascists, in one of the most pro-Trump states in America. He may be defeated in the 2020 election... but there are worse consequences in a political career, like selling out one's country to a despot.