The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(01-31-2020, 05:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-31-2020, 03:04 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-31-2020, 01:33 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Huh? Lynching is no liberal phenomenon. Law enforcement is for people trustworthy for using their power in according to... the law. 

...If liberalism is a cult, then every religious body, every fraternal organization, every Scout group, exercise club, college or university, bird-watching club, or chess club is a cult. Maybe even a symphony orchestra or jazz ensemble. 

Scientology is a cult. The Unification Church is a cult. Klan groups are often cults. Neo-Nazi groups are cults. ISIS and al-Qaeda are cults. MS-13 is a cult.  Mafia families are cults. The Ba'ath Party of Syria (and formerly Iraq) is a cult. NAMbLA was a cult. The Jewish Defense League was a cult. The Communist Party of the United States of America was a cult (and might still be). The New Black Panther Party is a cult.  The John Birch Society is a cult. Jim Jones' People's Temple was a cult. Aum Shunrikyo is a cult. 

So consider the NAACP, generally understood to be a liberal organization. Is it a cult? You would call it one because it is liberal. Cults recruit with deceit, using front groups to entice people. No, the NAACP identifies itself clearly for what it is. Cults control the culture of those who join. The NAACP does not tell anyone what music to listen to or what books to read. Cults typically have a god-like leader beyond judgment. No. What one sees is what one gets. People who leave a cult are vilified and shunned. One is not vilified for a lapse in membership. If one has a better use for the money than to pay dues, well, so what. There can be someone else.  The NAACP has bylaws to prevent abuse of power. Join a cult, and your economic life will be regimented. NAACP membership will not detract from a professional life. The NAACP is no more a cult than is a masonic lodge. 

If you want to know what a cult is, then consider the Communist Party of the United States. The Commies knew that they could not get people to do their dirty work knowing that it was for commies, but it could get people to serve a Commie cause by dressing it up to sound like something good in its own right -- like 'peace' or ethnic equity. Communists tried to take over liberal organizations, including labor unions.

I would judge Classic’s use of the word ‘cult’ as a demonization.  The word has a negative connotation.  Thus, he throws it around at those not like him regardless of whether the group he is labeling is in fact a cult.

You gave a decent definition of the word.  I would add that the leader often has a certain charisma, magnetism.  One can say a many bad things about Hitler, but you have to admit he could hold an audience.  But then again, so could Churchill.  I would hesitate to use the word cult to describe the 20th century German Nazi.

I have been trying to identify demonizing words and writing.  If you wish to be taken seriously, you don’t use words that might be thrown around an elementary school playground.  You try to have most of the gravitas that you find in presidential debates.  You try to use words in one of the more common meanings, not making your own usage up out of the blue.

Anything to add?

Lots of words have negative connotations. I'm not sure it would be in your interest to go down that road with me. You say and do a lot of stuff that have negative connotations. The way you're using the word Classic is a demonization. What you're doing is what I view as a typical liberal tactic. Hint...Ain't enough liberals around for it to work these days. It doesn't appear to be many willing participants who want to tangle with me. Do you want to know what would be cool, bring in the liberal lawmakers from the House? I'd like to see how well they would up to REAL scrutiny.

I recognize that certain words (most obviously words connoting outright crime such as murder, rape, and theft) usually have such strongly-negative connotations that they cannot be used in a positive way except under unusual circumstances. OK, I made a Freudian slip once about a great baseball player (Eddie Murray) on a team  rival to mine as "Eddie Murder" for the many times he "murdered" the baseball team of which I was a fan.  He might, so far as I know, be a perfectly good person. Likewise you are probably familiar with the great late baseball slugger Harmon Killebrew, often nicknamed "Killer" for his devastating home runs that often decided a game for the Minnesota Twins in his time. One could not make such a name out of Al Kaline, Norm Cash, or Willie Horton of some good-to-great Detroit Tiger teams... but at the time opposing pitchers had nightmares about that succession of Tiger hitters.  

Cults are dangerous for taking personal autonomy away from people and thus getting them to do horrible things because the cult teaches that the good of the cult and its leadership are somehow 'higher' than any criminal code or self-interest. The American Armed Services demand much, including the willingness to live under miserable conditions, do unpleasant tasks, and risk getting killed or maimed in combat or as targets of attack. The distinction between the Armed Services and a cult such as the Nazi SS is that an American soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine gets to keep his religion, his family ties, property, economic obligations (such as child support and personal debt) and normal standards of integrity. The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes clear that war crimes and crimes against humanity are not to be committed. Persons who commit such crimes "shall suffer death, although lesser penalties may be imposed if appropriate". 

Cults excuse horrible behavior by their own, trivialize the value of life of a member, glorify death, and treat life outside of the cult as unthinkable. We liberals turned on Harvey Weinstein when we found that despite his loyal support of liberal causes he was abusing women horribly. It is like the Roman Catholic Church casting out priests who abused boys. (If you are thinking of the Roman Catholic Church as a cult, it accepts as membership people at different levels of fervency, and people can go up and down the scales without severe consequences. Priests, monks, and nuns can abandon vows and the responsibilities and slight privileges that go with them without being demonized). I tied to use examples of cults across lines of ethnicity, religion, political position, and objective.  

It is as hard to herd liberals as it is to herd cats. Liberalism must rely upon shared common interest, and this time many of us see a horrible person as President of the United States and politicians who hold a grossly-amoral attitude that nothing matters except the power, indulgence, and gain of small elites at the expense of everyone else. We get to keep our moral compass. If it is on gay rights -- I find the now-defunct NAMbLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) abominable for excusing sexual relationships between adult men and boys -- which is statutory rape. On the other hand, I consider gay-bashing an abomination and as soon as I recognized how dangerous gay-bashing was I took the side of mainstream LGBT people who want same-sex relationships to get treated as normal. So how are mainstream LGBT groups not cults? Because LGBT groups do not direct one's life.  There is more to an individual's life than homosexuality.

Every politician is open to scrutiny. Certain deeds of disloyalty, corruption, and basic criminality attract journalists' attention. Do crime or even fall short of normal decencies while in elective or appointive office, and you become grist for journalistic scrutiny. Most people have the concept of disgrace, and we rightfully expect our political leaders to fit our ethical standards. Remember Senator Larry Craig? He was a homophobic Republican Senator from Idaho, and he solicited gay sex in a restroom at the regional airport from what proved to be a Minneapolis cop. He showed his Senate identification and the cop showed his police badge... and the cop arrested him. Hypocrisy is a bad habit. OK, former Senator Craig was a right-winger. Rod Blagojevich trying to sell an appointment to the US Senate? Unthinkable! Harrison Williams falling for a bribe set up? Unthinkable! Representative William Jefferson found with literal 'cold cash' in a freezer, cash as proceeds of bribes? Unthinkable! We all expect better. 

Plenty of people even in the most unrewarding roles* -- let us say ill-paid migrant workers -- can act with a strong moral compass. That may be the most important attribute that they see in themselves, and they demonstrate their moral compass even when such is difficult due to the harshness of our economic order. So what is the excuse for Bill Cosby doing date rape, Harvey Weinstein using the casting couch for the satisfaction of his lust, the late Jeffrey Weinstein ferrying underage girls on his "Lolita Express" for sex, or Donald Trump wandering into changing rooms during a beauty pageant? OK, so migrant farm workers do not get the chance to pad expense accounts or pretend that a hook-up with a prostitute is "laundry". But neither would I. Then again, I have my ideas of what is acceptable sexual behavior, and exploiting an employer-employee relationship, putting a knock-out drug in someone's margarita so that I could rape her, or messing with underage boys or girls (equally offensive) unthinkable and inexcusable. 

As for the word "Classic" -- I have seen it used so cheaply as in "Classic Coke" for the re-introduction of a flavor, or "Classic Hits" for stale oldies on the radio. "Classical music" in contrast is music with formal structure to be enjoyed for such, as with a Bach fugue or a Shostakovich string quartet. "The Classics" used to refer to ancient language and cultures attached to those, especially with Greco-Roman culture... and the Chinese classics were philosophical and literary tracts well known to the literati but not to the masses who spent hours in the rice paddies.  Even classical music can be an elite phenomenon, as one needs a certain level of learning to recognize that a work with so generic a title as "Sonata #32 in C minor by Ludwig van Beethoven" is pure delight. I do not knock Take the A-Train, String of Pearls, or Eleanor Rigby, as those (and much folk music) have their clear and undeniable merits. Such dreck as In the Year 2525, En-o-ree the Eighth, My Achy-Breaky Heart... a different story.     

*Arguably the worst role that our society accepts in commercial life is that of the retail sales clerk surrounded by merchandise that he will never be able to afford if he holds onto the job that he has. Retail sales clerks are among the lowest-paid of workers and work under close scrutiny under the assumption that they can easily steal from an employer or facilitate stealing by friends. Anyone who lasts in that business for a year is just amazing.