(07-20-2018, 05:11 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(07-20-2018, 12:58 AM)TheNomad Wrote:(07-19-2018, 11:30 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: I recall that the paleo site had a thread listing 4Ts for various countries.
Not every one had a war. During the 19th century, Britain had a bloodless Reform Crisis, and Canada had a rather low key Confederation Crisis.
That is interesting when I read the books the authors really never talked about other nations very much. And when they talk about America they really only use examples that involve kind of ideology.
American Revolution was ideology that America did not want to be subjugated to a crown. Then after that you have the Civil War which was obviously based on an ideology North vs South. After that we have World War II obviously a clash of ideologies on a global scale.
All three of those resets in American civilization involved violence great amounts of violence. I'm trying to remember if there was anything in the texts that was an example of a bloodless American fourth turning. Can anyone remember that?
But I see it possible that one could interpret the Second World War as the civil war of Western civilization itself. This fits Toynbee's explanation that the civilization is the unit of history. It may have been seen as the clash between Good and Evil -- and Nazism was about as pure evil as the world could ever know. But Hitler could see the British as 'Aryans' in good standing except for their tolerance of the supposedly non-Aryan Jews that Hitler saw as debasing all that he cherished. As is difficult to explain any irrational ideology, I will not try.
I like the first sentence, pungent.
Were there examples in the text(s) about a non-violent fourth turning? And btw now that we have progressed from a self-contained internal crisis of internal ideologies and then a GLOBAL clash as you say, what is next? As in, you fight with your brother... then the chieftan, then the tribe down the river, then the nation-state near you, to the continent over there, then the whole world lines up to battle .... where can it go from there? It seems like there is nowhere to go with that.
Or does it just reoccur in some other global location with different alliances than previous. As in, last time it was britain/france and ultimately US and Russia versus nazi aliiance (and toss Japan and Italy in there?) ............. but then this time it will be US/Russia/Israel v China/Iran/Pakistan or some concoction. Just endless versions of war with different participants each time? That sucks. I hope we find out the cause of all this and change our minds collectively,,,, isn't that the only way