(08-22-2018, 06:24 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would argue he is more than that. He is providing not only the necessary disruption to the previous status quo, but also providing the vision required to set up a new status quo. In short he is in fact the quote, unquote, long awaited Gray Champion. His main problem with thelibtardsliberal Boomers on this board is that he isn't the Gray Champion that they wanted.
An unfortunate consequence of more people living to elderhood seems to be that there more people around to whine about how their favorite pet project from the 2T isn't at the forefront of the 4T.
His function in history may be to do so many things wrong that he allows subsequent politicians to say "That's what Trump did" as a quick and easy rejection. Most significantly he will be a model of demagoguery, and left-wing demagoguery is as hazardous as right-wing demagoguery.
I do not have a pet project from the Awakening Era to revive. I think we all recognize that Awakening ways are completely irrelevant in a time in which our whole political heritage is in jeopardy. And I do not mean the game show. Survival comes before "peace, love, and dope".
(08-22-2018, 05:21 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(08-22-2018, 03:35 AM)Galen Wrote:(08-21-2018, 10:13 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: The Dims have been out to lunch for quite some time now. I've not considered them to be a serious party in ages, and their establishment is even more out to lunch than the laity.
Do the Dims have more than sheer outrage at Trump to offer? So far, after the last two years the answer seems to be no. In the end people will look at their wallet and decide if they are better off. Judging from how certain demographics are reacting it may be that many are coming to the conclusion that the Dims do not have anything to offer.
Crackpot source.
You should know crackpot sources being a crackpot.[/quote]
I saw a severe gap in the logical argument, not so much an absence of supporting data but instead a presumption of truth of what the source wanted to believe.
Quote: How about the experiences of a Black man instead? Locally, the black population where I'm from are trending more towards Trump, particularly the younger groups. So far the only thinking Black person I know who thinks things are getting worse is my own mother--and with her I'm using the term loosely, I'm not convinced she actually thinks all that much (probably because she is so highly educated, a pattern I've noticed, the higher the educational attainment the less independent the thought process). I think it is because she watches a steady diet of CNN an MSNBC which are known crackpot sources of disinformation.
One person with a self-selected group of associates. Did I say that things were getting worse, statistically, for blacks? Commuting twenty miles from a bad section of town to a near-minimum-wage job in Suburbia is a hardship, but it implies an improvement. I could make a case for such jobs as first jobs -- that they teach good work habits, that they are often intense work that allows one to be so busy that one cannot brood, that they don't pay enough to tempt one to go deep into debt to participate in "Affluenza", and that the work might be diverse enough that one can figure out the areas in which one might specialize.
Quote:If blacks have gaining in economics, it is because of such attributes as better education, dedication on the job (even on 'bad' jobs), greater mobility (commuting from poor sectors of cities to the suburbs where jobs are), and starting businesses. Such has nothing to do with politics.
These explanations have nothing to do with politics. It's personal behavior, and a recognition that Whitey doesn't cut any breaks. Obey Whitey's rules, or your life might go from awful to horrific.
Quote:Then we should have seen large gains before Trump. Is that true? Not really. Educational attainment has been largely static for a generation and unemployment has been twice that of whites for decades. I large reason why Blacks are doing better is because expelling foreigners is causing a labor shortage and Black Americans getting of the welfare-Dimocrat-Plantation and into employment are replacing the remittance sending Mexicans.
On the whole, big gains from the Jim Crow era, with allowances for economic downturns and upswings. The improvement is from a much worse position than that of white people in the same urban areas.
Quote:People with jobs and property tend to be conservative. Blacks already were socially conservative, and Trump making obtaining jobs and later property more possible will push that demographic right. Add to that the Dims going full pink haired SJW mode makes an uncomfortable political marriage that much more uncomfortable.
In my experience, and my understanding of history, the Left-Right divide is largely between debtors (Left) and creditors (Right). Note well that the ten-year-old jalopy has a schedule of payments on it that practically assures that its 'owner' will never pay it off before it dies. The effective interest rate on the loan (which could be an inflated price) makes the jalopy a highly0encumbered asset -- an asset with near-zero value. People in debt want a more robust economy even to the point of inflation which reduces the burden of debt. Small-scale creditors are comparatively moderate in politics, knowing that they need income to keep their assets from frittering away. Big creditors want debt to hurt the borrower and make the borrower dependent and helpless so that the debtor will do anything to survive. The classic example of a big creditor is the owner of a landed estate who has sharecroppers and serfs as his effective employees. There's little difference between a Junker and a post-Civil War planter in attitudes toward the 'help'. Keep 'em in debt, and decide things so that the sharecropper or serf gets the alleged privilege of staying on the estate or plantation.
Quote:Do not be confused, Maxine Waters does not speak for Black People. I'm not even sure she speaks for the Black People in her own district seeing as she doesn't even reside in her district.
40 million people, whose skin color ranges from near-white to jet-black, whose attainments in life can be from being on death row to being Barack Obama or Neil de Grasse Tyson, who are in all classes except the "upper out-of-sight" of families with several generations of large, inherited wealth or the reputation of such?
Maxine Waters no more speaks for black people than Donald Trump speaks for white people.
Quote:Quote:Donald Trump reminds most blacks of the licit capitalist that they least admire -- the landlord, as that is what he is. The perception about most landlords is that the landlord takes the rent money but creates few jobs and does not innovate. (OK, they are paying off lenders and taxing authorities, which may make them heavy creditors too). Blacks are more likely to be tenants than home-owners... and debtors instead of creditors. Both tendencies usually cause people to go to the left side of the political spectrum, as may explain the urban-rural split in the vote. People in the worst parts of Kentucky are more likely to own their dreadful hovels than are people in Silicon Valley who might pay 3K a month for a studio apartment and pay $500 a month to rent parking space.
And you know all of this by being Black of course, and having your finger on the pulse of Black Culture don't you. Since you claim to have a disorder that doesn't exist...Aspberger's I'm just going to tell you I'm being sarcastic. I don't expect you to understand sarcasm because quite frankly my experience tells me you have great difficulty with anything outside of your narrow world view.
Nothing to do with my ethnic identity (English, German, Swiss, Welsh, Scots, French, Dutch, Irish, Belgian, Danish, and Norwegian from the time of American settlement... and some mysteries. Some ancestors may have had a good cause to hide an ancestor at one time, and I have no idea what is hidden. If I ever get around to taking one of those DNA tests, I will put the results in this Forum. Maybe not this thread.
Quote:First, prior to 2015, when CNN discovered that Trump was suddenly "raycis" Trump was incredibly popular among Blacks. So much so there are rap songs about aspiring to be like him.
Central Park jogger. Donald Trump called for the death penalty for a non-capital offense before there was a conviction. He played up the 'racial' overtones then.
Quote:Second, Trump's businesses is far more than simply being a landlord. He is in fact a property developer which means that he not only creates construction jobs, he is far more likely to sell those properties after such development than he is to hold on to them. Further, where he does not he has a reputation maintaining his properties--you know so he can charge a premium for renting the space he owns.
Yes, he is a property developer... and he has sold off properties for cash. He is lucky to have been able to buy in cheap, when New York City was a mess, and lease out dear. He is fortunate that he is not a developer and landlord in such a place as Detroit or St. Louis.
Quote:Third, being a debtor or renter is NOT racial in origin. Unless of course it is your position that because someone is Black they cannot possibly be a creditor or own their own property. Which of course begs the question who the real racists are.
No -- it is often the result of redlining in the past which kept blacks out of 'desirable' neighborhoods that had potential for appreciation. Also, blacks are much less likely to have any inherited advantage in economics -- even the most successful blacks have more typically than is the case for whites, started with nothing or nearly nothing. Check the demographics.
Quote:Quote:...Outrage? Americans have consistently shown disdain for corruption. Despotic tendencies in pols? They have rarely seen such, so we are in uncharted waters on this.
Not really. The Clintons and Obama are pretty much despised by everyone these days.
People in the Trump cult, of course. You need to get out more.
Quote: Manufactured outrage against Trump mostly just exists on the Tee-Vee and I would argue largely constituted of Dimocrat Mouth Pieces and professional malcontents. Those of us who have to get on with day to day activities such as raising the kids, working and paying the taxes at worst see Trump as more of the same.
Oh, the plain-folks fallacy at work.
Quote:I'll leave off responding to the rest of your post here because it is more of the same old canned nonsense you've been posting for two years now and we already know my views on both that and the "points" you "bring up". One of the reasons I don't post that much anymore is because I'm tired of beating dead horses, and it is evident to me that most of the Boomers here are too busy trying to convince themselves of their own positions to concern themselves with convincing others of their positions. That makes for a poor debating atmosphere, and quite frankly I have better things to do, like running my business.
Like most boomers I have no leftover agenda from the 1960s and 1970s. Life is more about survival, as this is a Crisis Era. Boomer culture is 'not for export'.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.