Who Can Beat Trump?

[David Horn]

(08-29-2018, 05:17 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-28-2018, 10:19 AM)David Horn Wrote: There is a point where everyone feels put-upon.  The Red culture seems to have reached this point decades ago -- if not longer.  Religion certainly plays a part, but patriarchy is just as important.  There is a reverence for the Red Elites (for lack of a better description), and a rock-rib belief in the sanctity of work (unless you belong to the elite class, of course).  Hence, a man who works two or three jobs, is never home and often dies young is honored, but working smart is considered sloth.  This is one of the bugaboos Red culture has against Blue culture: they're "lazy".  Add atheism (assumed) and communism (they want hand-outs instead of work) and you have a belief system that can't be breached.  

I just don't see that kind of bullheaded nonsense in the Blue world.  Are many Blues misguided?  Of course, but not to the point of taking up arms: an integral part of Red world if you are allowed to see it.  Since Trump, it's openly on display.

Well, are there bigoted blues who rock down believe that Reds are religious, patriarchic, reverent believers in 3 jobs and opponents of communism and atheism?  Does this describe the reds we see on this board?  Are all blues this rock down bigoted?

Now, I do believe in hating the Agricultural Age premises, in hating elites, greed, in solving problems, in the Enlightenment values of democracy, human rights and equality.  This has noting to do with the Red vision of Blues as communist, atheist, addicts into handouts.  Everybody has their vile stereotypes, dark projections of what the other guys are like.  You just covered a common Red one, and went so far as to say it is nigh on universal in some parts of America.  At the same time, you illustrated a Blue bigotry in not addressing the true reasons that Reds advocate things like small government, reduced regulation and lower taxes.  They have their point.  They should make their point.  You can respect many points.  But in the best of possible worlds, we will still end up with government, regulation and taxes.

I live in the epicenter of Red America, but Reds live many places other than here. I grew-up in upstate New York, which is also conservative though less dogmatic. That doesn't lessen the impact that Trumpism has had on the entire Red tribe. He's toxic in a way that no other politician has been in a long time. So yes, there is received dogma that is unique to the Red tribe and this time in history. Is it universal? Nearly, though not totally. We may get a glimpse of how completely the Kool-Aid diet has been absorbed after the November election.

Bob Butler Wrote:I would say these vile stereotypes are often inaccurate, and the problem is a great degree in how hard people cling to the stereotypes.  Blues have to speak clearly about what Blues really stand for and puncture these Red stereotypes, and vice versa.  We ought to be centered on what everyone really believes, not on the garbage stereotypes.  As is, people are into the stereotypes, not the reality.

If we could dump the stereotypes, if we could deal with the real values, we might combine things into something that could be respected by both sides.  I think building that could result in a regeneracy.

I agree that we all tend to fight the demons in our minds, rather than our true opponents in our midst. No one is listening to anyone not inside their own tribe, because they get roasted by both sides for doing it. As it stands, the Red tribe has much more to lose and much fewer resources to draw-on for solutions. To add to the fire, the Blue tribe is out of patience with the Red tribe, so generosity is not likely to be in the cards.

It's a safe assumption that things will get even more ugly before they improve.