11-19-2016, 05:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2016, 05:22 PM by Eric the Green.)
(11-19-2016, 05:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm not all that impressed by Trump as a speaker. Perhaps if you're already convinced in what he's saying, but to me he depends altogether too much on repeated lies being accepted by an unquestioning audience.No question. No question Trump is entertaining and dramatic. No question he lies, etc. And can his unquestioning audience be excused for ignoring or applauding his prejudice?
No doubt Hillary's lesser public speaking ability hurt her. I was hoping that surrogates like Michelle, Obama and her husband could cover it, but no... The Democrats need a charismatic voice to lead their message.
I heard a few ads this year from the two candidates, which was unusual in CA. I had to admit, Trump's were better. They spoke to real needs and his supposed answers. Hillary's ads just ran down the other guy.
Quote:A lot of truth in the above. There might be a limited number of points to be made. Making them might well require respecting the audience, not talking down, hammering down persistent lies, and finding a good speaker or three.
Major points to be pounded?
Trump isn't going to drain the swamp. He's a swamp monster. This is becoming clear by the number of lobbyists he is bringing into the White House. A persistent, truthful and verifiable reporting of how the Republicans favor special interests ought to be maintained. Every bill they push through congress, every executive action favoring the robber barons, ought to be clearly and truthfully reported.
Borrow and spend trickle down has always failed. I don't know if you caught the simplistic economic model I proposed to Kinser, but the bottom line is that there is too much transfer of capitol from Main Street to Easy Street through both tax policy and dividends. The counter argument I've most often seen blames FDR for Hoover's crash and blames Obama for Bush 43's. When the Republicans mess up big time, it takes more than four years of Democratic rule to fully recover. We've seen that pattern through the unravellings. The Republicans blow things up, the Democrats get things more or less going again while still hobbled by a lack of control of Congress, then the People get impatient by the slow pace of the recovery. They give control back to the Republicans, and cause another disaster. That pattern has to be made clear and broken.
The race, gender and cultural divisions are problems too. I'm not sure how to address this in a respectful way without talking down and while showing respect for the opposing point of view. I don't see all Republicans as deplorable, though there are enough deplorables to really really matter. The southern strategy has long been a quiet part of their base strategy, but now Trump seems to be bringing it out in the open. How does one appeal to any true 'family values' folk to reject the uglier strain of Trump's schtick? I have trouble treating racists with respect, without scorn, without talking down. While in a lot of ways I think your strident insulting approach isn't productive, in this area it is all too easy for me to join you.
On campaign finance, Trump made much about Hillary's giving talks to Wall Street audiences and taking lots of money from super pacs. I'd like to see the Democrats widely adapt Bernie's approach to financing campaigns. It is not sufficient just to promote the interests of the People over the robber barons, one has to avoid the appearance of being beholden to the robber barons. While I see the Clinton Foundation as doing good work while Trump's use of his foundation was criminal, even the appearance of corruption when manipulated by expert liars can hurt. In these days of fake news and submerging truth with repeated lies, charities such as the Clinton Foundation ought to be run by retired politicians rather than active ones.
I'm sure there are other issues and areas requiring similar treatment. I guess my concern is still saying these things with enough respect and fact, with as little talking down as possible. Values lock is still there. No one wants to change what they believe. Thus, the temptation to increase the volume and emotional intensity is tremendous. Still, it is easily possible by overdoing the brazen attitude and emotional volume to cause them to tune out.
I can completely understand where the authors of all these anti Trump videos are coming from. Still, remember the thought a lot of Democrats were feeling about the 'mistake' in Trump's end game? He was focusing on his base and not reaching out to the wider audience he needed to win? With hindsight, who was it that made that mistake?
The Democrats made it. Trump had a broader base than we thought, too. It says something about where our country is now, and it's not good.
Good statement, Bob. I just think the resistance has to be strong and clear. If some people are insulted, that may be inevitable. But people also can respond well to strong statements and honest conviction. I don't say, as Trump did, that I am that voice. Those of us who care about life and humanity and truth are all going to need to raise our voices, in our own way.