To impeach, or not to impeach

[Classic-Xer]

(10-02-2019, 12:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-02-2019, 01:01 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-01-2019, 09:37 AM)David Horn Wrote: This is one area that polling seems to handle poorly.  Impeachment is a political death sentence, so supporters (especially Trump supporters) are uniquely unwilling to agree to it ... until they are.  That's the rub.  The change of heart is unpredictable, and tied to emotional rather than intellectual evidence.  Is a supporter shocked or sufficiently dismayed by some aspect of or action by POTUS to push him (less likely) or her (more likely) over the edge?  Once moved, does that person simply withdraw from the arena or become an active antagonist?  Impossible to know until it happens.

We're still in the early days.  I suspect that the temperament in the Democratic Party makes impeachment unavoidable, but the aftermath is still unknown and, frankly, unknowable.  Public opinion can be driven as much as it can drive others to action or inaction.    In another month, we'll have a better feel for where this is going, if anywhere.

Well, I hope the Democrats have someone (a whistle blower) with something more to offer than hearsay for evidence. You'd think blue Americans would understand that they live in a country where it takes more than just hearsay or hatred or fear of someone to convict or legally impeach someone. The blues keep showing us glimpses of their future system of justice and Americans continue rejecting it or ignoring it in favor of sticking with their own. Now, I don't really care if you're strung up by a group of blues for something someone else may have said or thought about you for whatever reason. Heck, I don't care if groups of blues start slaughtering each other the same way for the same clueless/lawless reasons. Right now, I'd say public opinion/attitude on this matter is pretty much "same old liberal/PROGRESSIVE crap different day" at this point.

You red guys are funny! It has been confirmed by officials that this was more than hearsay; the whistleblower is a credible witness. There are abundant grounds to impeach and convict Drumpface. He uses his office for his personal gain, such as hotel business, and accepts gifts from other countries, including accusations against his political opponents. That violates the emoluments clause. He called up a foreign leader and asked him to develop a false conspiracy about his political opponent and accuse that opponent of crimes he didn't commit, as a "favor though" in exchange for weapons to fight the Russian invaders of his country. He asked his counsel to fire Mueller directly, and then covered it up and stopped that counsel from testifying. Nixon was forced to resign by Senate Republicans, including Barry Goldwater, for just such conduct. He obstructs justice at every turn, and refuses to turn over his tax returns. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Mueller couldn't indict him for collusion only because Trump had destroyed the evidence, and couldn't indict him for obstruction of justice because the Attorney General said he couldn't indict him for it, but he clearly laid out 10 instances of it. 

The only reason he isn't gone is because of you guys-- all of you red-base people, mostly rural and some suburban white voters who like him because they are indoctrinated, prejudiced, and have their egos stoked by trickle-down, self-reliance, anti-tax and pro-gun rhetoric that appeals to those same prejudices. Public opinion is shifting though. There is a majority now saying the impeachment inquiry should go forward. That doesn't mean you guys won't still back him, and it doesn't mean your senators will convict him, knowing that you guys might not support them in doing so.

Oh, I'm sure the Progressives have all kinds of personal reasons to impeach and convict Trump for whatever reason. The Progressives have made that very clear to me. Yes, I'd say the PROGRESSIVES have made that very clear to me and damn near half the nation too. You may not know this or understand this, I know the difference between the Progressive and the Democrat. I also know that there is a substantial difference between the Progressives and the Democrats as far as voters go as well. I even know what the differences are between them. The question I have for you, are the Democrats themselves willing to financially suffer/sacrifice and accept major concessions/cuts or enter harms way and possibly die for the Progressives or in order to keep the Progressives in power. Right now, the Progressives are center stage for all to judge. Lets see, we experienced a partial government shutdown that lasted for almost a month caused by a rift between the President of the United State and the top ranking Progressive in office today. Dude, that was relatively minor and a little glimpse of what it's going to be like whens there's sixty some million actively involved to bring down an oppressive Progressive government that obviously wants control of everything and redistribute our dollars among themselves. I'd say the number of Americans judging them is about the same or greater than the number of people judging Trump now. Why? Nothing that's important that matters to most seems to be getting done/adequately addressed. Right now, half the country hates the Progressives and could care less about what happens to them and those who support them. A percentage of the country can't stand them either but view them as necessary to keep their higher paying jobs and their government entitlements. A larger percentage hates them just as much as half the country but haven't quite figured out that they're now directly related to them politically regardless of what they believe and know to be the obvious differences that clearly separates them or figured out that they're in charge whether they like it or not at this point and that's pretty much the way it's going to be from now on. Knowing this, I hope they're able to accept the bulk of their tax dollars going to fund Progressives and Progressive programs and Progressive groups and financial interests related to Progressives with much less going towards law enforcement

Now, I don't really care what goes in Progressive cities. I don't care if their PUBLIC parks have TRANSIENTS living in tents. I don't care if their citizens have to look down before they step to avoid stepping in poop. I don't care if there aren't enough cops to go around. I don't care if their public officials/elected officials where expensive clothes, own expensive cars and live in expensive homes in upper class neighborhoods. I don't care if they prefer to have their children educated in private schools either. I don't care if their crooks or incompetent or simply don't care about anyone other than themselves or their interests. I don't care if the obvious concerns of their citizens are ignored or not viewed as being more important than their own concerns. I don't care if nothing gets fixed, water quality sucks, water ways smell like outhouses, homelessness and unemployment become more and more common. I live in a mid western suburban area that's still largely reddish. A suburban area/community with taxpayers that won't tolerate transients living in their parks. I live in a mid western that's more reddish than blue despite being viewed as a long time Democratic state. I dunno, As I've mentioned, I'm very familiar with the Progressives. I should be familiar them, I've been studying them, learning about them for years and communicating directly with them in person for years. I'm also very familiar with those that I often refer as the Americans. I should be familiar them, I've been learning from them and learning about them for years and I've been actively involved with them with doing just everything for my entire life.