11-04-2021, 12:44 PM
(11-04-2021, 11:25 AM)David Horn Wrote:(11-03-2021, 07:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's hard to say about this 4T. Usually it looks bad while we are in it. As you know, I don't see any basis for hope for the next 2T, if this 4T fails. Failed societies don't have 2Ts, unless rescued by other societies during their 4T. If our 4T fails, it is because our nation has become different from that of the past 500 years; more evil, more ignorant, more deceived, more stubborn, more complacent, more decadent, more greedy, more unmanagable by any human agency. So if that is the case about our current 4T society, then the 2T will just be further chaos and also end badly. It could be argued that our previous 2T ended more badly too than previous ones. If a nation is just in decline, then it doesn't really matter which turning it is in. It will just decline faster, or slower, depending on which turning it is in.
Here we disagree. We're not a lot different from the nation we were at our founding. We still have the same contending cultures and suffer the same conflicts -- just moreso. At some pont, we needed to renegotiate the contract we signed in the 1780s, and either split or develope a new commonality. Being a minority-ruled nation isn't viable, but that's where we are and where we're going for now. As far as being a failure and falling into a bottomless hole, I don't think we'll fail that way. Instead, we'll slowly fall apart at the seams, and AGW will finally push us to stand and deliver, or divide and go our separate ways.
Eric Wrote:Even this is hard to believe, given how evil our society has always been. But in our saeculum it has reached its peak of power and prosperity, and so decline in every way, which has already well begun, may be the only thing we can expect from now on. Yet, as I said, with 7 or 8 years left to run for SURE, we can't know just how our 4T will turn out. Whatever victory is achieved, if it happens, (and a blue victory is the only outcome that's a victory), it will be partial, not perfect, and only then we can expect further change and progress in the next 2T, with a renewed spiritual discovery or revival along with it that is mostly missing today, but has always happened in past 2Ts.
Here we do agree. I doubt we'll get our act together in the next few years, but we won't have a Kumbaya 1T either. Those ~20 years of messiness will be similar to the messiness following the ACW. That time we went backwards. I hope the opposite will be true this time, because AGW isn't playing games.
Even with AGW, it's hard to be optimistic given such election results as Nov.2, 2021. The people don't seem to vote based on real concerns, but on prejudice slogans like CRT and momentary concerns like high gas prices. But, as I've said, the 4T often looks bleak while we are in it, and we have faced real crises in the past and won, so if we are the same nation, then that could be a basis for some hope that we may stumble into victory in spite of ourselves.