03-19-2020, 09:29 PM
(03-19-2020, 06:41 PM)TheNomad Wrote:(03-19-2020, 12:43 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(03-18-2020, 09:12 PM)TheNomad Wrote: It is now time for a group effort that requires Groupthink. Groupthink has no ideology.
Groupthink is itself an ideology, and a pernicious one.
Not in this context. With the upcoming Hero and comrades who rebuild during and after the Crisis, Groupthink is the only thing that gets these unreal Crisis problems solved.
The Groupthink will be so severe (it has to be to solve these issues) it will create a dead culture.
Strauss and Howe wrote that after a Crisis, society will
"...feel like it can DO ANYTHING but cannot FEEL ANYTHING."
And the reverse is true in the Enlightening when the Prophet returns. They bring the era of FEELING ALL and DOING NONE. They create the culture we are now in that is so obsessed with ideology and being right, no one can agree to get the problems of the Crisis solved.
It's laid out in the texts how this works. Things swing to extremes and then return the other way.
I am more inclined to view groupthink, ideology or what I call world views as pretty much similar.
Conservatives perceive a need to cut taxes, create smaller government, and thus problems that require taxes and big government in order to solve become harder to admit they exist. They just plain refuse to see the problems their vision doesn’t include.
Progressives are willing to create a government that can solve problems and tax to solve problems, and try to use science to prove that the problems exist.
Both opposing groups employ groupthink possess an ideology, and have a world view, three different ways of saying the same thing, essentially.
Or switching to Nomad variant of S&H, the red bloomers and blue boomers are artificially mashed together and get blamed while the younger generations get mashed together and poof magic things get better. They will somehow solve everything in the crisis when the boomers are in charge.
?
This is very different from S&H where the three active generations each have a positive role to play.
As I see it, the high in the Industrial Age was a time when the ideologies of the last Crisis was enforced by things like McCarthism. They are a time when people focus on materialism and infrastructure building rather than ideas. Whatever struggles happened in the prior Crisis are declared loudly over, and folks are ready to forget those struggles for a while. It is not that we can’t feel, but that the only acceptable feelings were defined in the Crisis.
In the Awakening of the Industrial Age, the next bunch of struggles begin. The Prophets grow up seeing what to them is the next obvious flaws to be corrected, and loudly proclaim the flaws. These flaws don’t get resolved until the Crisis, usually by military force. Conservatives tend not to perceive the flaws, but would rather enjoy the privileges of the existing culture.
In the Information Age? Is it harder to get an effective Trigger when nobody wants a Crisis War? Are problems solved by legislation in the Awakening, making the Awakening the transforming turning rather than the Crisis? If the Awakening solves the problems it declares, do you get no debate driving the Unraveling and Crisis, and a split Idealist generation that acts less to change things and more to keep things the same? If there was is no Regeneracy, if there is no heart of the Crisis where trial and error refines the new values, how is it that everyone is tired in the High, and what ideology is enforced by things like McCarthyism? Do you thus have to throw away everything one learned about the Industrial Age, and start looking hard at what is really happening?
I have been having a little trouble figuring out Nomad. He does see problems being solved soon when the Boomers go away. In that he is vaguely blue in acknowledging that something has to change. In recent discussions of the Virus he has come out as rural, wanting to live as he has in the past, unable to perceive the problem, and not hearing what science has to tell him. In that he shares something with the red.
That might be clarified?
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.