The cancer infecting the political Left

[Eric the Green]

(12-14-2020, 04:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-14-2020, 03:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Classic has everything exactly wrong, and shows zero ability to learn from us. Frankly I wonder now whether he is a robot, or just insane. In any case I think he is not worth having a dialogue with any longer. I haven't blocked him yet, but I am considering it for myself.

I also think it is pointless to argue with Einzige, and see him as much the same as Classic. And the same applies to CH86

Thing is, the people you listed above are hardly alone.  If you remember our fundamentalist, can you see convincing him that every word of the Bible is not literally true, and you must accept the whole Book rather than the old parts which specify who to hate?  Can you see yourself freeing Xenakis from tribal thinking?  Do you anticipate being convinced that astrology will not provide objective truth?

People will cling to their worldview and values.  Unless they have a strong scientific worldview and values, they will disregard even direct observation in order to preserve their worldview and values.  I’m not arguing that conversations with people with strange worldviews is apt to be futile.  It is.  They just have different ways to determine Truth.  Even if you quote the parts of the Bible inconsistent with homophobia, even if you acknowledge tribal thought is still dominant among minor powers, even if you acknowledge that cavalier culture has it’s strengths that have contributed much to America, people will remain committed to the Bible, tribal thinking, socialism, cavalier culture, astrology or even CH86’s odd obsession with boomers, no matter what is said.

(It is hard using the obsession with boomers constructively.  That is admittedly an odd one.  But it is typical in its way.  In dealing with CH86, you can’t seem to get away from all boomers being what they are not, and their being the cause of all problems.  How can that perspective be used constructively?)

My trick is in embracing the odd way of thought, being able to use its strengths, finding its limits, and building a worldview which incorporates them all.  Changing how a person thinks who believes he has found the One and Only Shortcut to Truth?  That seems to be beyond my pay grade.  It takes a major event, a total failure of the worldview and values, to convince someone to hide or change the way he finds Truth.  A S&H crisis, among other things, contains an event which presents such a total failure of values to a bunch of people at once.  If a culture is a collection of people with similar worldview and values, it takes such a drastic event to change the culture.

So far this crisis we have the bug pricking the idea that one need not solve problems.  We have the Black Lives Matter protests fighting the idea that racism is satisfactory and inevitable.  We have the economy failing again, which ought to but has not yet convinced people that Voodoo economics ought to be seriously rethought.  Global Warming?  Pardon if I doubt there is enough shock to go around, that the culture can fully accept everything it needs to?  We may have to wait on the next generation of prophets.  It is, after all, their future that we are stealing.

But people will go on trying to see their personal truth as The Truth.

Most of us are subject to this tendency to some degree. And not excepting the two of us. For me it's a matter of degree, and it is obvious to me that any conversation with CH86, Einzige or Classic Xer is futile. They are simply here to peddle their rigid, false ideology (and downright dangerous in the case of CH86 and Classic). 

Of course, you or others can say that you are keeping the truth alive in this public forum in reply to their falsehoods, and that you won't give up on them, and I understand all of that. I have tried my best, as have others. Everyone is a unique divine expression, or an amazing outcome of evolution, or both, so there is always hope...... and I haven't put them on ignore here...... and also there's a limit to some peoples' tolerance of and patience with endless circles too.....