We be Mega-3T; we are entering a Mega-4T.

[Eric the Green]

(07-31-2020, 12:57 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 09:17 AM)sbarrera Wrote: Interesting. It would be great to hear directly from Einzige.

Now, what about the fact that some of the early turnings were pre-Industrial? We already have the cycle spanning two different Ages in that sense. They start at the end of the Renaissance in the pre-Industrial Early Modern Age.

The only allowance I recall S&H making for a shift that happened from the early Turnings to our time is that the life-phases shortened, leading to shorter Turnings. That is, people, grow up faster now and so the generations come faster.

I count the equilibrium of the Agricultural Age as beginning to break with the Black Death, Renaissance, gunpowder weapons and the printing press.  Not sure exactly where to put the age boundary.  In history, there are often areas of honest debate when you try to be too specific.

It is not just S&H turnings that has the cross perspective problem.  If you advocate for a given perspective, it is from tempting to inevitable not to confuse the issue by bringing in other perspectives.  No matter if you are reading up on turnings, ages, or civilizations, you tend to see the other ways of looking at things pretty much neglected.  Where I am trying to combine the three perspective I tend to think when reading about one perspective, yes, that's right, but what about...  It was a while before I started to apply the general rule, that if you crossed a border in any of the three systems, you had to be carful about your empiric observations.  You tend to get so absorbed in your favorite perspective that you ignore what you learned from the others.

Some historians say the industrial age started in 1760. But the Watt steam engine wasn't even invented yet. I go by E. J. Hobsbawm who recounted lots of evidence in his book The Age of Revolution to show that the take-off was in the early 1780s. Of course, the take off could not have happened before the cultural and inventive changes of the previous 300+ years. Many historians use the rather-dependent-on-time terms of early modern for the period starting with the Renaissance and modern for the time since the Industrial and French revolutions. "Post-modern" applies easily to the Information Age.