Has the regeneracy arrived?

[Eric the Green]

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(02-16-2020, 04:37 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

Eric Wrote:It's also a question of whether, if Bernie isn't nominated and many of his supporters bolt in 2020, will we survive as a country? 4 more years of Trump will be a major obstacle to this. The Republican Party is the one that needs to die. Like, yesterday.

If Bernie IS nominated, and the moderates bolt as a result, that could also endanger the Republic. The Dems need to be united against a transcendent evil this time. The question is whether they will be. If the country dies, I'm not sure it matters which party dies.

Sanders is the regeneracy candidate. If the Dems don't choose him, they may lose anyway, because the other candidates aren't up to the job of beating Trump, let alone setting a new course for the country. Bernie can do both, although "can" does not equal "will."

[quote =me earlier] if Bernie wins the nomination those self-identifying as Dems will vote 4 him. They're Vote Blue No Matter Who. It's the Berniecrats- ppl who r only voting Dem bcuz of Bernie- who will bolt.. They were suckerpunched in 2016- they expected the Dems 2 run honest primaries & not cheat-

Eric Wrote:Just as it's not wise to believe Tulsi's lies, it not wise to believe in this conspiracy theory crap either. Whatever bit of cheating there was made no difference in who was nominated in 2016. Now, if the superdelegates end up choosing someone besides Bernie after Bernie won a strong plurality of delegates, then that's when the Berniecrats might bolt.

-- sez the dude who eats Hillhag's lies 4 breakfast, lunch, dinner, & a midnite snack

Eric, l'm not going over this w/u again. U were shown receipts, not just by me but by others on the old board when the cheating was going on. Just bcuz u choose 2 ignore them does not making the cheating any less real. By your own system Bernie should of won the primaries, his #s were better. So either your system sux or Hillhag & the DNC cheated. Take your pick

but u have reminded me of 2 more candidates 2b Bernie's successor: a) Tulsi, of course, but maybe not in 2024. 2028 or l8r. b) my homeboy Dennis, if he can make a comeback. Like Bernie, he's been talking the Talk & walking the Walk 4 decades, so he has authenticity on his side.  Un4tunately, not only was he talking that Talk back in the 3T, when very few ppl were interested, he looked like your kid brother, u know, the 1 u had 2 take with u everywhere. So which messenger r u gonna respond 2- the 1 who reminds u of that kid brother, or the 1 that reminds u of your Grandad? Anyhow, Dennis has aged quite well during the intervening years & looks quite the statesman. maybe he (or Nina) can run 4 Governor in 2022, which would free up Sherrod 2 run 4 Prez in 2024

There was no DNC cheating that could have made any difference in 2016. Your own written language is hard to read, but I try to read it as best I can.

I have researched this issue thoroughly and posted what I found here years ago. Being a Bernie fan first, if I had found that DNC cheating changed the outcome of the election, I would have said so. Whatever mistakes were made in New York were not the actions of the DNC. To claim so is just conspiracy theory, and conspiracy theory is crap; period end of story. Hillary won by 58 to 42% of the primary vote. Cheating in a few voting places in Nevada or a few polling places shut down in AZ or someone giving advance notice of debate questions to Hillary in a debate did not change the outcome. Yes, the DNC wanted Hillary to win, but the DNC does not dictate who people vote for. I don't know what you mean by "receipts," but I know the DNC did not withhold funding from Sanders once the campaign started.

Even if cheating DID give the nomination to Hillary, that does not mean that the Democratic candidate should not be supported in 2020, because we face existential threat if we do not.

So, will you keep your promise not to go over this with me again?

I admit I don't easily give in during discussions and debates. I have a stubborn streak. Of course, most people on these on-line forums have the same streak.

My system does not always predict who is nominated, and I don't claim so, as I point out in my article, book and website. Democrats are very good at picking losers, so they did that in 2016. She had a big advantage in organization, support and name recognition and started with 66% approval ratings, so she was hard to beat. But the system was right; she lost the general to the higher-scoring candidate.

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me, earlier Wrote:-- so their response was mixed: some voted Green, others actually voted 4 the Donald, but most stayed home since they no longer had a dog in that fight.

Eric Wrote:Such Berniecrats were less than 20% of the total of Bernie primary voters, which were a small fraction of the general election vote.

-- Eric, check out this pie chart. 91+ million voters is not a small fraction, it's the largest piece of this pie. Not all of those non voters were Berniecrats but a good chunk of them were

-- 

That pie chart is ridiculous, and you didn't say who made it.

Mary, I have read the figures, and I stand by what I read. 10% of Bernie primary voters stayed home and 10% defected to Trump. Similar numbers of Kasich and Rubio voters did the same. It was a wash. Primary voters are still a small percentage of general election voters. Bernie defectors did not give Trump his victory. Lots of things did. Indeed, Hillary was the wrong choice and was a weak candidate who didn't even campaign in the Rust Belt. Russian fake news bots and Comey's scandal-mongering had their effects too, as did voter suppression that kept many minorities off the ballot in Nov.2016.

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me, eariler Wrote:--This time around the Berniecrats r wary. They see Bloomberg trying 2 buy the election. They see Buttcheat trying to steal it with technology. They're with their guy all the way 2 the Convention but they're also considering plan Bs. I know. I belong 2 several Bernie groups & a few Tulsi groups. Some of these ppl say they will write their candidate in, but many of them r eyeballing the Greens as a fallback. As l said b4, if they vote Green as a block & get their own progressive party. That could be the beginning if the end 4 the Dems if the new progressive party starts attracting progressive Dems 2 it. All that will be left would be blue dogs
Otoh, the Dems could survive as the Blue Dog party bcuz the repugs r going off the rails. I haven't realized until l wrote that brief summary of political parties above what u were saying about this 4T resembling the Civil War 4T. The Know Nothings infiltrated the Whigs, sending them off the rails. The Tea Partiers & other wingnutz r doing the same thing 2 the repugs, causing the moderates 2 invade the Democratic party , shifting it 2 the right, alienating long time old school Dems & younger ppl in general. These ppl will come 2gether & form a progressive party.2 counter the Blue Dog Dem party.
 Either way the country will survive the Donald, it will just come out worse 4 wear if he gets another 4 years. By 2024 the country should be ripe 4 a progressive (I think we already r, but anyhow) & while Bernie would probably be 2 old 2 run again, he has surrogates. Jeff Merkeley from OR comes 2 mind. The Jacobin Mag did a write up on Tammy Baldwin from WI recently. She sounds like a good successor 2 Bernie. Then there's always my homeboy Sherrod if we can get that clown out of the Governor's Mansion in 2022. Nina Turner is also a possiblity if she can remain relevant 4 the next few years. She has been making political waves this year & would would make a gr8 successor 2 Bernie since she is a dyed in the wool Berniecrat.
So we'll just have 2 see how this all rolls

Eric Wrote:I don't think the nation will survive 4 years of The Donald. At least, not in its current form. The reactionary Republicans would have too much resistance power, in their reactionary Courts, in the vote suppression and gerrymandering, in their Senate, and we can expect The Donald will amass even more dictatorial power. I'm not saying it won't happen though. The Democrats have a weak field, with the strongest candidate (Sanders) being the underdog as a "socialist" and Biden the other strong favorite fading, and none of the others can beat the Drumpf. And 2024 does look like the challenger wins the popular vote. But on the other hand, by then the Republicans might well have ended democracy (or the nation) as we know it, and my indicators won't matter.

-- l agree with u about Bernie being the strongest candidate. The DNC screws him over @ their own peril But I am curious about the Moon thing: u say the Moon b4 this years election favors the Donald & the Moon in 2024 favors the challenger. What challenger? in 2024 the WH will be up 4 grabs. Even if Bernie is not cheated out of the nom & wins the general, he'll be in his 80s in 2024 & will probably be a 1 termer. So either way the WH will be up 4 grabs

re: 4 more years of the Donald- maybe that's what it's gonna take 2 get this regeneracy going full steam. Bernie can show the Way, but the ppl have 2 follow it, & take on the Vampire Class. The Vampire class ain't giving nothing away. Maybe by 2024 ppl will realize that

Yes that may happen, but I think Trump is an existential threat if he gets 4 more years. If a progressive wins in 2024 change will not go further than undoing some of Trump's damage. In 2028, the Moon indicator says the challenger will win again, and the 1T will be upon us, in which change is harder to make. Only if the Democrats nominate candidates that can win, will they rise above this moon indicator. This indicator is covered on my website of course; see part 2. http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentia...ions2.html

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Eric Wrote: I think the repugs will only fold if they are defeated in general elections. Berniebros and Berniecrats need to listen to Bernie. They need to know who the enemy is. The DNC, Biden, Buttigieg (who hasn't really cheated; there's only suspicions because he contributed funds to the Iowa caucus process), Bloomberg, Klobuchar et al may be inadequate, but they are NOT the enemy. Trump IS our enemy, and should only be looked upon as a criminal, an enemy, a dirty dog; not worthy of any respect. The only things to do with him is get him out of office and into jail. Until then, I don't think the Greens (a party I belonged to for almost 30 years, and might again) are a viable option now with such evil to confront. Mussolini can't be allowed to take over. The Greens may be a viable option at some point though.

-- re: Buttcheat- he paid 4 the software that ran the disasterous app & precinct captains reported it was flipping votes to him, not just Bernie votes, but from all the candidates. Now if this was just a software glitch, a coding error or whatever, shouldn't it be flipping votes 2 all the candidates @ random, not just 2 Buttcheat? I saw screenshots of Groper Joe's delegates & Amy K's delegates being assigned 2 Buttcheat, & then there's the infamous coin tosses, They must of been using the same coins from 2016 since Bernie, once again lost all the tosses. Hmmmmmm

Eric Wrote:Merkeley hasn't got the chops according to my scores (3-9), but Sherrod Brown (19-8) probably does, and possibly Tammy Baldwin (13-6) too. Mitch Landrieu (16-2) is the best option. Terry McAuliffe is from the moderate wing, but he is a winner, score 11-2 at least. He is an effective campaigner and fundraiser and supports whoever the Democrats nominate, including Bernie. I haven't heard that he is in the stop Bernie crowd.

 
-- Sherrod probably would of ran this year if it wasn't 4 that clown in the Governor's Mansion giving away his seat 2 some douchebag should he win. Hopefully we can get rid of his ass in 2022 so Sherrod can run in 2024

I hope so, because Sherrod is a strong candidate according to my scores, as long as he can clear his voice.