The Maelstrom of Violence

[Bob Butler 54]

(07-01-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: They don't do similar things at all. They have no humor, and no truth. It's just utter propaganda. You can listen to Alex Jones, and then claim the two sides are the same? I know that, although you don't practice it yourself, that you have an idealistic view that you can look at both sides the same. It just does not work today. There may be grains of truth on all sides, but the preponderance is clear. The blue comics mix facts with humor. If you listened to Oliver, Meyers or Colbert you would know that.

Oh, I've listened to them.  It's just that in doing humor, they are allowed and expected to disparage and exaggerate.  The end result is nothing like objective truth.  They are spinning like crazy, presenting biased stuff, telling their selected audience what they expect to hear, with the intent to boost ratings an profit from the political discord they sow.

(07-01-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: There's no use arguing with me about the NRA, you know that; and personal attacks on me like that are not even arguments, let alone communication. You know that; you won't admit it. Just drop it. I will not argue with Nazis, and I will not argue with the KKK, or the NRA either.

I am absurdly doubtful of converting or even having you understand and acknowledge the NRA point of view.

Saying your mind is closed is not a personal insult.  It is a cold fact.  It's the central cold fact.  You're one extreme partisan among many, and almost by definition an extreme partisan is incapable of listening or learning.  I will open discussions with many extreme partisans.  Getting any of them from either faction to change basic perspectives is not expected, absurdly rare and not a practical objective.  I'm often writing as much to illustrate values lock, the nature of partisanship, as to advocate for the red or blue perspective.

The thing that interests me about the NRA ad is that they speak true about some extreme members of the blue cult.  As Warren Dew mentioned, what is said in the ad is true, but much of it applies only to a very few extremists.  This truth is made clear by the videos shown as the extreme claims are made.  What they say happened happened.  This does not in the least suggest that your typical blue leaning person has blocked an interstate highway.  However, at least one interstate highway has been blocked.  Anyone who wishes to call them liars ought to be ready to prove the video a forgery, which they cannot.

But you don't seem to deal with that level of fact.  Fact seems irrelevant to you.  If something is unpleasant to your world view, you will call it a lie, with absolutely no attempt to fact check.  I absolutely expect this lack of integrity from any extreme partisan, not just you.  In expressing this opinion of extreme partisans, I'm not particularly looking to personally attack you, I'm vaguely hoping that the extreme partisans on one side might recognize that if the other side is absurdly prejudiced and closed minded, perhaps they might occasionally want to look in a mirror.

A vague and unrealistic hope.

Eric the Green Wrote:

Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

Eric the Green Wrote:

Bob Butler 54 Wrote:In the meanwhile, there are demons on either flank thinking there is nothing wrong with demonizing.  It sure feels different if one is the one being demonized, no?

Better communication is always something to try, in the right context at least. It's also up to the right-wing to stop being demons. I don't see that happening until the 4T is over, at least; assuming they lose it that is.

It is equally up to both wings to stop being demons.  Start with the guy in the mirror.

You know that's not true. One side is the demon.

Again, you are not listening.  The context of my original statement claimed demons on both extremes.  I used 'demon' in the context of 'one who demonizes.'  I have forever disliked you or any other extreme partisan who insists the other side is stupid, brainwashed, insane, evil or similarly subhuman.  The problem with extreme partisans to a great extent is the habit of demonizing rather than any opinion of the unraveling memes.  A core part of my world view is that major world views have solid reasons for coming into existence, and that many to most who hold such world views can and will believe in their perspective, and defend their perspective, intensely and well.

One who refuses to try to understand the opposing perspective is part of the problem.