Joe Biden: polls of approval and favorability

[Classic-Xer]

(03-08-2022, 04:08 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-07-2022, 06:49 PM)Classic-Xer expounds Wrote: I bet you have closer ties to the KKK and the concept of white supremacy than me. You are an older white Southerner right. Okay, you may have adjusted to the idea of having to eat with them but that didn't mean you had to like it right. Me, I grew up with the idea of eating with them in grade school so it wasn't a big deal as we got older. I wonder how many Democratic supporters and partisan Left Wingers on the Liberal side fit in that group of people today.  I see quite a few of them posting on other Liberal oriented sites on the internet. BTW, the bulk of them are Democratic women. I can tell that you don't feel  very highly of Joe Six Pack these days. So, what are  your feelings about  Jill Six Pack these days? Do you feel the same way about her as Joe? There's lots of Jill Six Packs out there too.    That's the cool thing about freedom, you're free to be a moron and free to continue screwing yourself and free to continue to promote lies that most view as bullshit these days too. See, you and Biden and the Democratic party have the same problem in common these days.

Here's a list:

• I was born in upstate New York and lived there until I entered the service.  FWIW, I was also a member of SNCC, starting at age 15.
  
• I grew up with almost nothing but Joe Six-Packs, since mine was, as Natalie Merchant described it, a rusty old town.
  
• Most of the locals were Rockerfeller Republicans then and Trump Republicans now ... but not me.
  

Classic-Xer continues in the same vein Wrote:If foreign extortion truly mattered to you and the Democratic base or Us for that matter, Biden wouldn't be President since he was seen on video tape bragging about a quid pro quo that he and Obama pulled off with the former President of Ukraine to remove a pesky investigator and Trump would've been impeached for what he did as well.   Weren't you watching the trial the defense was making its case or didn't that particular aspect of foreign diplomacy really matter to you?  Like I've said, where would you and the Democratic party be if the use of political extortion and bribery were made illegal. Shit, you and the Democrats are providing/trading/offering stuff in exchange for peoples votes and continued support all the time. It's pretty much what the Left has been doing since 1932. Where are we now in comparison, 1930 or so don't you think?  

Arm twisting for your country is a lot different than arm twisting for personal gain.  And tell me: what are Democrats offering for votes, other than typical promises all politicians make?  FYI, that's not extortion nor is it bribery.

yet more from Classic-Xer Wrote:As far as the border, the border problem/illegal immigration has moved up significantly as far as its overall importance to American voters. I'm sure the Mexican/ Latin American voters on the Democratic side and the Progressives aka Democratic Socialists would prefer the current border situation remains as is and prefers that nothing significant be changed as far as border security. I mean, you've made it clear to most Americans over the years that you guys don't like the country and you'd like to change the population of the country. Peasants are easier to rule than American citizens and they're a lot cheaper wage wise too.

But all of a sudden, the border just isn't an issue, is it?  Maybe it will be some other time, but not now.

Do you know what Biden arm twisted the leader of Ukraine to do for him and the corrupt company that his son was working for at the time? The border is still an important issue that Biden caused that's not being addressed that the Blue media has largely ignored the entire time. I mean, thousands of illegals living under a bridge caught their attention one time and forced Biden to do something about that eye sore that was simply to troublesome to ignore.

Yes, the Ukrainian war has pretty much taken over the news cycle and over shadowed all domestic issues. We see little coverage of the current border crisis, the COVID crisis, the current inflation crisis, the current supply chain crisis and the on going issue of shortages, the Jan 6th thingy that matters much more to you guys, the current opioid crisis (I'm sure you guys hardly hear about that at all) that's killing/destroying more Americans now than it ever has in the past and the current state of the union which is not good by any stretch of the of the imagination. Like I said, the Liberals are currently making a very strong case for getting rid of all of them by any means possible.

A far as the Democrats and what they have to offer in exchange for votes, the Democrats mainly offer empty promises like you said and continuation of funding for social programs they've passed in the past and continuation of protections and obligations related to them associated with the past. Plus, the Democrats tend to bait and switch too. In other words, the Democrats will run on the economy and corruption like it did leading up to the crash and spend a few hundred billion of a trillion dollar spending bill that helps some union construction workers and some manufactures and some construction company workers and their owners which doesn't help hardly anyone else and spend several hundred bullion more shoring up government related jobs mainly related to them and their constituency and then pass a healthcare that most Americans didn't vote for or support at the time. The way I see it, Obama had the opportunity to be one of the greatest Presidents the country ever had but he chose the pot of gold that he knew was waiting for him at the end instead.

I'm glad you gave me the low down on your illustrious history. if one doesn't know for sure, one probes the way I probed you to find out. So, were the Joe Six Packs rural Democratic voters or rural Republican like my parents and grand parents? The primary distinctions between the two was whether one was union or non union and whether one lived in town or lived outside of town. You see, my parents and grand parents lived near a rusty old town too. My grand parents owned a home and a chunk of land mainly pasture for beef cattle and a barn for milk cattle and bunch of chicken coops and a local bar where the Six Pack's in the area would congregate after work. Hell, I'm a bit of a Joe Six Pack myself. I was more of a Joe Six Pack during my younger days. Joe Six Pack's are more practical people so I can see why you didn't get along with them and view them as being below you even though most of them are equal to you in most aspects related to life.

You really should tamper down the elitist attitude that you display to me (us) because it opens the door to facing/dealing with more serious and more experienced challengers like me. The Democratic oriented candidate recently got his butt kicked by a more serious and more experienced challenger like me for governor of your state. In short, what you seen of me back in the day is becoming the norm on the Republican side. You're seeing more capable challengers like Us. How many country club Republicans aka Poppa Bush Kin's or Evangelical oriented Republicans aka Junior Bush Kin's do you see representing the Republican side today? There's some country club/ establishment types left but there's not enough to hold Us back. To be honest, I don't know which scenario would be worse, an all out civil war or a largely unopposed national split aka natural split. You could go either way, you could sell your home and move to a Democratic region or stay put and live out your life as an odd ball that no one bothers to listen to because most know it's BS or know it won't work so to speak. My old brother lives in rural Tennessee. He says the stuff about the locals as you say here. The only difference, he also added that they're not stupid people. In other words, he respects them and doesn't have a problem with them as far as people go.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-09-2022, 01:34 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 01:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I hope we can take away your guns and end your ability to "defend" against paying taxes. I hope taxes on you go sky high.

I always think this comment should be so obvious about why I make it to folks like Classic Xer. He is so obsessed with what is really not a significant problem for him-- that he might lose his guns or pay higher taxes because of Democrats-- that I exaggerate my hopes that he suffers them. But I don't think he realizes how insignificant and unimportant these concerns really are. I don't think he gets why I exaggerate them.

I remember I said this at a meeting about the Obamacare proposal in 2010 that I made to an anti-Obamacare Tea Party protester; that I hoped his taxes would go through the roof. He smiled; I think he got it. It just makes Classic Xer more angry and threatening. He doesn't get it.

Are you talking with yourself now? I remember saying something similar to an Antifa type at a Bush rally back in 04'. He didn't smile at me, he tucked his tail and ran way. Me, I would have smiled at you while giving you the finger. You're right though, there's no point in raising taxes that are going to be reduced anyway. It's symbolic gesture but that's about it. Oh well, the Democrats seem to be content with borrowing and injecting free cash/credit for now. As far as guns, I heard Beto has had a change of heart and no longer supports the idea of confiscating legal firearms. BTW, you're playing a game that I'm better at playing. Like I said, fate has already been placed in your hands and that's where it's going to remain. It's better that way. God works in mysterious ways.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-09-2022, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 11:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 04:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 04:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 01:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Stalin and the Bolsheviks were not liberals. The reformers in the Gorbachev era were considered liberals. Dictatorship, such as what Trump and you right-wingers want in the USA, is not "left" or "liberal." Consider the political circle as defined by the Libertarian Party. Stalin is more in the center, and near the bottom of the circle. He is not very far on the left. Stalin and the Soviets professed interests in economic and gender equality, and sometimes this was attained, but at the price that this equality would be at a low level of prosperity, and that individual rights would be sacrificed.

I hope we can take away your guns and end your ability to "defend" against paying taxes. I hope taxes on you go sky high. I don't speak for everyone on "the Left" in this. It is my personal comment directed at you. But if you use your guns in a civil war, you will be subject to arrest and confiscation of your guns by the other side. You are not interested in individual rights. Only in your "right" to be violent and harm others, and not to do your civic duty and pay taxes as decided by our democratic process.

You're not liberal either. There are few liberals left on the Democratic side now that the Left controls most of the party  Like I said, you're a Left Wing Reactionary which is pretty obvious. You're not Stalin or a Bolshevik but you're a Left Wing Reactionary who is a lot like them. You're probably closer to Hitler and the Nazi's based on what I've seen of you and read of your posts so far. Well, guess what, whichever one you are doesn't matter to Americans because Americans will unite and kill/destroy either one of them. You'll see it eventually, you don't seem to be learning anything as we've been exchanging views, seeing results and moving along towards the 4T over the years.

I am a liberal. I am not a neoliberal like you. Despite the resemblance of terms, there's a vast difference between them. THere is no such thing as a left-wing reactionary. The terms are contradictory. I am not a lot like Stalin or Bolsheviks, and you are the one who is close to Hitler, because you are a racist and you support oligarchs and giving them tax breaks and subsidies, and you believe in free access to guns as Hitler did. You don't seem to be learning anything, that's true. You are a reactionary.

Americans will indeed oppose Nazis, and Bolsheviks too should they ever arise here. Right now, there are no Bolsheviks in the USA, but there are Nazis, and that may include you. Many Americans are allied in supporting resistance to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There is still a division among Americans. Some Republicans are moving away from the racist nationalism and the support for big lies and the Trump coup that you laud and agree with. There remains however the addiction by Republicans like you to neoliberalism at a time when we need to raise taxes, especially on the wealthy, and provide social spending to help workers and the poor directly rather than giving breaks to "job creaters" and hoping benefits will trickle down from the greedy to the needy. And we will likely need to raise taxes for more support for NATO now.

I am very glad Biden banned Russian oil in the USA. I asked for this for several days in my comments to the white house. I hope it can be extended to the Europeans soon. I see that they will embark on a program of faster transition to renewable energy. More oil and gas sent to them by others could be a temporary measure.

You're not liberal. You're to partisan to be liberal. As matter of fact, none of you are as liberal as me on the issues that matter most to you. I mean, none of you would even consider increasing domestic oil production or building more nuclear power plants these days. I'm not a neoliberal. If I was a neoliberal, I would have voted for Clinton and Biden instead of Trump like the neoliberal minded GOP's  did back in 2016 & 2020. Global trading matters to me but it doesn't matter more to me than the country. Trump was a direct threat to the  neoliberal establishments and he still is today. Reagan didn't have anything to do with what the Presidents that followed him did or the trade agreements they made while they were in office.

To be liberal today is to be a partisan Democrat. That's because the alternative is so reactionary, as you are. You don't understand neoliberalism. You choose not to. The champion of neoliberalism was Reagan. Reagan had everything to do with all the presidents of the next 40 years and the entire Republican Party. You deliberately choose not to understand that. You could if you chose to.

How can you be liberal if you're a partisan Democrat? That makes no sense. As far as what the man had say about neoliberalism, I agree with most of what he had to say and if you were to have payed more attention to the beginning of his lecture and compare it to what I said about Reagan not being responsible for the decisions and the agreements made by the Presidents who followed him and the problems mainly related to them and the problems we are facing as a nation today. You're going to disagree but if you really listened to him, you're part of the problem not the solution. If you listened to his solution and the words he used to describe those who represent the solution and the kind of country that's needed as a solution. It's Us. You say you're not a neoliberal yet you voted for two of them because you're a partisan Democrat. I guess that makes you either a hypocrite or a moron.

[pbrower2a]

(03-09-2022, 06:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Do you know what Biden arm twisted the leader of Ukraine to do for him and the corrupt company that his son was working for at the time? The border is still an important issue that Biden caused that's not being addressed that the Blue media has largely ignored the entire time. I mean, thousands of illegals living under a bridge caught their attention one time and forced Biden to do something about that eye sore that was simply to troublesome to ignore.

That's not what happened.

Quote:Yes, the Ukrainian war has pretty much taken over the news cycle and over shadowed all domestic issues. We see little coverage of the current border crisis, the COVID crisis, the current inflation crisis, the current supply chain crisis and the on going issue of shortages, the Jan 6th thingy that matters much more to you guys, the current opioid crisis (I'm sure you guys hardly hear about that at all) that's killing/destroying more Americans now than it ever has in the past and the current state of the union which is not good by any stretch of the of the imagination. Like I said, the Liberals are currently making a very strong case for getting rid of all of them by any means possible.

We have an evident struggle between Good and Evil, which is what one expects during the latter phase of a Crisis when such had not yet happened. That "January 6 thingy" was an attempt to negate a free and fair election that the incumbent lost. Such, had it succeeded, might have transformed America into a dictatorship. Even with differences of ideology I first saw a parallel with the Bolsheviks storming the Winter Palace in Petrograd in 1917 and toppling a lawfully-elected Constituent Assembly after a free and fair election that Lenin's Bolsheviks lost. Lenin imposed a 'temporary' dictatorship that outlasted  any adults who lived through the October Revolution and festered into the inhuman tyranny of Josef Stalin. I prefer elections to revolutions and coups. Anyone who wishes to enshrine one set of political winners indefinitely is a fool.

Quote:A far as the Democrats and what they have to offer in exchange for votes, the Democrats mainly offer empty promises like you said and continuation of funding for social programs they've passed in the past and continuation of protections and obligations related to them associated with the past. Plus, the Democrats tend to bait and switch too. In other words, the Democrats will run on the economy and corruption like it did leading up to the crash and spend a few hundred billion of a trillion dollar spending bill that helps some union construction workers and some manufactures and some construction company workers and their owners which doesn't help hardly anyone else and spend several hundred bullion more shoring up government related jobs mainly related to them and their constituency and then pass a healthcare that most Americans didn't vote for or support at the time. The way I see it, Obama had the opportunity to be one of the greatest Presidents the country ever had but he chose the pot of gold that he knew was waiting for him at the end instead.  

Well, democracy depends upon politicians seeking to convince a mass of voters that the politicians can improve the lives of voters, or at least preserve what voters already have, with promises that could be tax cuts or a more activist government. Nobody makes overt promises of mass poverty or economic ruin of course, every eighty years or so in the latter days of a 3T we get a speculative boom that offers plenty of easy money in an economic bubble that bursts as in 1857, 1929, or 2008 and in the ensuing Crisis we are obliged to seek and find some radically-different solution to an economic calamity.

High rents indicate a housing shortage that has no solution exclusively in building housing only for a few people flush with cash -- why not also some modestly-priced housing that such people as those construction workers building such McMansions can afford? I remember when factory workers could buy little bungalows in small towns based upon the assumption that they would remain factory workers and not gamble on learning to be accountants or engineers. Except for LGBT rights, vast improvements in inter-ethnic relations,some medical improvements and the replacement of 'Blood Alley' roads with superhighways, life for young adults today is generally worse than it was in the 1950's. LGBT rights, improvements in race relations, and the building of better roads did not result from the introduction of any new technologies. The medical miracles are consequences of scientific progress that would have happened anyway. Oh... technological miracles such as personal computers and satellite communications? I see e-mail as a telegram; I see most of what is on the Internet as either what one did by watching television, listening to radio, sending a letter, or reading from a dead-tree edition of some literary work. 200 channels of television? Maybe you can watch two channels at once (in your case the Timberwolves and the Wild, or perhaps FoX News and some pornographic movie that together rot your intellect and conscience... you cannot watch the other 198 and little of it appeals to you.

I would sacrifice much of the high technology that we now have to find a more just world in which people can improve their lives through the community with 'little' acts of life-affirming behavior instead of having to move off to where the jobs are and the action is -- and rents are in the stratosphere. Part of the problem is that we got addicted to K-Mart convincing us that we were astute shoppers praiseworthy for not paying full retail at some mom-and-pop retailer before Wal*Mart came in to offer even lower prices than K-Mart.  Part of it was that we found the over-priced shopping mall a good place for getting stuff more attuned to our personalities when we could no longer order it through a mom-and-pop store and K-Mart and now Wal*Mart make such impossible.

OK, plenty of people would chafe doing monotonous work in a factory. Fine. For such people college education that allows people to make subtle discretion at complex tasks possible for solid pay. College education used to be affordable, but the Master Class has chosen to make it fiendishly expensive to the point that joining a rat race with six-figure debt to be paid off before one can eat because debt is supreme and people are expendable.That's how sharecropping worked. Higher technology to enforce peonage is no boon. With all the advances in productive technology and infrastructure we should be doing better in personal lives -- even in greater and more glorious expressions of individual desires. This isn't for everyone



but it is certainly right for me. I bought it, and I may be the only one who cares about this in my milieu.

Quote:(snide remark toward another poster) if one doesn't know for sure, one probes the way I probed you to find out. So, were the Joe Six Packs rural Democratic voters or rural Republican like my parents and grand parents? The primary distinctions between the two was whether one was union or non union and whether one lived in town or lived outside of town. You see, my parents and grand parents lived near a rusty old town too. My grand parents owned a home and a chunk of land mainly pasture for beef cattle and a barn for milk cattle and bunch of chicken coops and a local bar where the Six Pack's in the area would congregate after work. Hell, I'm a bit of a Joe Six Pack myself. I was more of a Joe Six Pack during my younger days. Joe Six Pack's are more practical people so I can see why you didn't get along with them and view them as being below you even though most of them are equal to you in most aspects related to life.

"Joe Sixpack" is a plebeian, philistinical character created by the late columnist Art Hoppe (1925-2000) of the San Francisco Chronicle. Joe Six-Pack was a marginally-educated fellow who could easily be mocked by  the "rootless cosmopolitan" types common in the San Francisco Bay Area back in the 1970's. Somewhat-similar characters in TV sitcoms of the past include "Ralph Kramden", "Fred Flintstone", "Archie Bunker", and "Al Bundy". Such characters are ignorant and proud of it... and male-chauvinist pigs. They are the sorts who buy and drink mass-market beer. They are not so much practical as they are unimaginative. "Joe Six-pack" is an insult, and Hoppe's readers could read his columns and feel good that they are not that awful.

(David Horn) really should tamper down the elitist attitude that you display to me (us)  because it opens the door to facing/dealing with more serious and more experienced  challengers like me. The Democratic oriented  candidate recently got his butt kicked by a more serious and more experienced challenger like me for governor of your state. In short, what you seen of me back in the day is becoming the norm on the Republican side. You're seeing more capable challengers like Us. How many country club Republicans aka Poppa Bush Kin's or Evangelical oriented Republicans aka Junior Bush Kin's do you see representing the Republican side today? There's some country club/ establishment types left  but there's not enough to hold Us back. To be honest, I don't know which scenario would be worse, an all out civil war or a largely unopposed  national split aka natural split. You could go either way, you could sell your home and move to a Democratic region or stay put and live out your life as an odd ball that no one bothers to listen to because most know it's BS or know it won't work so to speak. My old brother lives in rural Tennessee. He says the stuff about the locals as you say here. The only difference, he also added  that they're  not stupid people. In other words, he respects them and doesn't have a problem with them as far as people go.[/quote]

The "country club Republicans" may have lost control of the GOP and will not regain control of it until the Trump-era and Bible-thumping Republicans get wiped out in political failure.  The Trump cultists and the Bible-thumpers skew old, so such offers little hope for big wins by the GOP. Any business that relies on an elderly clientele whose patronage does not depend upon their age. OK, nursing homes built in the 1960's to largely accommodate people born in the 1880's and 1890's now have mostly inmates born in the 1930's and 1940's, so they can do well. Back in the 1980's the traditional anchor department store of a shopping mall had a typical customer aged 59. Lacking youth appeal, such places withered. Demographics are reality in American commerce, culture, and politics.

People in rural Tennessee may largely get their music from Nashville, but they get the rest of their entertainment from places other than Tennessee from city slickers who could no more live there than a polar bear could live in the Amazon rainforest.

[Eric the Green]

(03-09-2022, 11:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-09-2022, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 11:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 04:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 04:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're not liberal either. There are few liberals left on the Democratic side now that the Left controls most of the party  Like I said, you're a Left Wing Reactionary which is pretty obvious. You're not Stalin or a Bolshevik but you're a Left Wing Reactionary who is a lot like them. You're probably closer to Hitler and the Nazi's based on what I've seen of you and read of your posts so far. Well, guess what, whichever one you are doesn't matter to Americans because Americans will unite and kill/destroy either one of them. You'll see it eventually, you don't seem to be learning anything as we've been exchanging views, seeing results and moving along towards the 4T over the years.

I am a liberal. I am not a neoliberal like you. Despite the resemblance of terms, there's a vast difference between them. THere is no such thing as a left-wing reactionary. The terms are contradictory. I am not a lot like Stalin or Bolsheviks, and you are the one who is close to Hitler, because you are a racist and you support oligarchs and giving them tax breaks and subsidies, and you believe in free access to guns as Hitler did. You don't seem to be learning anything, that's true. You are a reactionary.

Americans will indeed oppose Nazis, and Bolsheviks too should they ever arise here. Right now, there are no Bolsheviks in the USA, but there are Nazis, and that may include you. Many Americans are allied in supporting resistance to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There is still a division among Americans. Some Republicans are moving away from the racist nationalism and the support for big lies and the Trump coup that you laud and agree with. There remains however the addiction by Republicans like you to neoliberalism at a time when we need to raise taxes, especially on the wealthy, and provide social spending to help workers and the poor directly rather than giving breaks to "job creaters" and hoping benefits will trickle down from the greedy to the needy. And we will likely need to raise taxes for more support for NATO now.

I am very glad Biden banned Russian oil in the USA. I asked for this for several days in my comments to the white house. I hope it can be extended to the Europeans soon. I see that they will embark on a program of faster transition to renewable energy. More oil and gas sent to them by others could be a temporary measure.

You're not liberal. You're to partisan to be liberal. As matter of fact, none of you are as liberal as me on the issues that matter most to you. I mean, none of you would even consider increasing domestic oil production or building more nuclear power plants these days. I'm not a neoliberal. If I was a neoliberal, I would have voted for Clinton and Biden instead of Trump like the neoliberal minded GOP's  did back in 2016 & 2020. Global trading matters to me but it doesn't matter more to me than the country. Trump was a direct threat to the  neoliberal establishments and he still is today. Reagan didn't have anything to do with what the Presidents that followed him did or the trade agreements they made while they were in office.

To be liberal today is to be a partisan Democrat. That's because the alternative is so reactionary, as you are. You don't understand neoliberalism. You choose not to. The champion of neoliberalism was Reagan. Reagan had everything to do with all the presidents of the next 40 years and the entire Republican Party. You deliberately choose not to understand that. You could if you chose to.

How can you be liberal if you're a partisan Democrat? That makes no sense. As far as what the man had say about neoliberalism, I agree with most of what he had to say and if you were to have payed more attention to the beginning of his lecture and compare it to what I said about Reagan not being responsible for the decisions and the agreements made by the Presidents who followed him and the problems mainly related to them and the problems we are facing as a nation today. You're going to disagree but if you really listened to him, you're part of the problem not the solution. If you listened to his solution and the words he used to describe those who represent the solution and the kind of country that's needed as a solution. It's Us. You say you're not a neoliberal yet you voted for two of them because you're a partisan Democrat. I guess that makes you either a hypocrite or a moron.

That's what a liberal is today, a Democrat. Greens have gone off the deep end to some extent; independents are too easily swayed by who knows what (but usually by the right), and the conservative right is now almost entirely right wing crazies. Because I really listen to him, I know that Reagan instituted neoliberalism and the presidents who followed him more or less followed him. If you know about neoliberalism you know that it came to power in 1980, with Reagan and Thatcher.

I had a hunch you might agree with some of the things he said. Like most people who vote Republican, you don't really know what you are voting for.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-10-2022, 01:30 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-09-2022, 11:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-09-2022, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 11:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 04:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I am a liberal. I am not a neoliberal like you. Despite the resemblance of terms, there's a vast difference between them. THere is no such thing as a left-wing reactionary. The terms are contradictory. I am not a lot like Stalin or Bolsheviks, and you are the one who is close to Hitler, because you are a racist and you support oligarchs and giving them tax breaks and subsidies, and you believe in free access to guns as Hitler did. You don't seem to be learning anything, that's true. You are a reactionary.

Americans will indeed oppose Nazis, and Bolsheviks too should they ever arise here. Right now, there are no Bolsheviks in the USA, but there are Nazis, and that may include you. Many Americans are allied in supporting resistance to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There is still a division among Americans. Some Republicans are moving away from the racist nationalism and the support for big lies and the Trump coup that you laud and agree with. There remains however the addiction by Republicans like you to neoliberalism at a time when we need to raise taxes, especially on the wealthy, and provide social spending to help workers and the poor directly rather than giving breaks to "job creaters" and hoping benefits will trickle down from the greedy to the needy. And we will likely need to raise taxes for more support for NATO now.

I am very glad Biden banned Russian oil in the USA. I asked for this for several days in my comments to the white house. I hope it can be extended to the Europeans soon. I see that they will embark on a program of faster transition to renewable energy. More oil and gas sent to them by others could be a temporary measure.

You're not liberal. You're to partisan to be liberal. As matter of fact, none of you are as liberal as me on the issues that matter most to you. I mean, none of you would even consider increasing domestic oil production or building more nuclear power plants these days. I'm not a neoliberal. If I was a neoliberal, I would have voted for Clinton and Biden instead of Trump like the neoliberal minded GOP's  did back in 2016 & 2020. Global trading matters to me but it doesn't matter more to me than the country. Trump was a direct threat to the  neoliberal establishments and he still is today. Reagan didn't have anything to do with what the Presidents that followed him did or the trade agreements they made while they were in office.

To be liberal today is to be a partisan Democrat. That's because the alternative is so reactionary, as you are. You don't understand neoliberalism. You choose not to. The champion of neoliberalism was Reagan. Reagan had everything to do with all the presidents of the next 40 years and the entire Republican Party. You deliberately choose not to understand that. You could if you chose to.

How can you be liberal if you're a partisan Democrat? That makes no sense. As far as what the man had say about neoliberalism, I agree with most of what he had to say and if you were to have payed more attention to the beginning of his lecture and compare it to what I said about Reagan not being responsible for the decisions and the agreements made by the Presidents who followed him and the problems mainly related to them and the problems we are facing as a nation today. You're going to disagree but if you really listened to him, you're part of the problem not the solution. If you listened to his solution and the words he used to describe those who represent the solution and the kind of country that's needed as a solution. It's Us. You say you're not a neoliberal yet you voted for two of them because you're a partisan Democrat. I guess that makes you either a hypocrite or a moron.

That's what a liberal is today, a Democrat. Greens have gone off the deep end to some extent; independents are too easily swayed by who knows what (but usually by the right), and the conservative right is now almost entirely right wing crazies. Because I really listen to him, I know that Reagan instituted neoliberalism and the presidents who followed him more or less followed him. If you know about neoliberalism you know that it came to power in 1980, with Reagan and Thatcher.

I had a hunch you might agree with some of the things he said. Like most people who vote Republican, you don't really know what you are voting for.

I know what I've been voting for over the years. I've been voting for my freedom along with millions of others on the American right. What have you been voting for, keeping poor people poor and reliant upon Liberals and the states they control? Who taught you all the crap that you say about Us? How much of the crap you say is true? We don't say crap about you, we say what we know about you that we obtained from you. You seem to be a player. So, what's at stake for you? You keep telling me you're liberal but I don't see much of anything liberal about you. I see someone who acts like/looks like he has a substantial stake of being lost. Me, I have a stake in an American country like seventy some million (probably a lot more than that today now that Biden's been in office) Americans. But, I'm not concerned about losing it because America is to powerful as a group. Biden has already shown us he has some Putin in him when tried to impose senseless mandates and his failed attempt to undo most everything related to Us and the power that we represent as a group. Do you see a larger voting block in the country today? You say you're not a neoliberal but you sure seem like one or at least seem like a useful tool to me. So, who is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, is it Us or China right now? It's China right. Other than the inner workings of the Democratic party and Democratic politics in general, I don't think you have a flipping clue or a care in the world about anything important to the rest of the American people. You said it yourself, you are a partisan Democrat. You better change your name to Eric the Democrat since your ditching the Greens. Like I said, you part of the problem not the solution. We're the solution and you'll find that out as we continue moving through the 4t. I've already seen the way you use terms and seem to be using the term authoritarian the same way. Why you're using terms (racist, fascist) like defense mechanisms or a means to divide or a means to end dissent or control is beyond me because it ain't working and it's only exposing what you truly are beneath the surface. I used to use so called liberals to describe you guys back when there was a mixed group of Democratic supporters as a way to distinguish between the group. It took me about a year to get the American minded Democrats out of the way or to be truthful out of harms way. After that, it was pretty much a group of Liberal's vs a dedicated group of Americans with the decent Democrats chiming in from time to time but remaining neutral for the most part. Well, we are almost there now. So, why would we use our guns to seal your fate when you're doing a good of that yourselves.

[pbrower2a]

(03-10-2022, 08:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I know what I've been voting for over the years. I've been voting for my freedom along with millions of others on the American right. What have you been voting for, keeping poor people poor and reliant upon Liberals and the states they control? Who taught you all the crap that you say about Us? How much of the crap you say is true? We don't say crap about you, we say what we know about that we obtained from you. So, what do you do and what's your stake in the game? You seem to be a player. So, what's at stake for you? You keep telling me you're liberal but I don't see it. I see someone who acts likes/looks he  has a stake in the game. Me, I have a stake in an American country like seventy some million (probably a lot more than that today now that Biden's been in office) Americans. Ok. You are seeing another prelude of what's to come here. Biden has already shown us he has some Putin in him with the senseless mandate and his failed attempt to undo most everything related to Us. You say you're not a neoliberal but you sure seem like one or seem like a useful tool to me. So, who is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, is it Us or China right now? Other than the inner workings of the Democratic party and politics in general, I don't think you have a flipping clue about anything important to the American people, Like I said, you part of the problem not the solution. We're the solution and you'll find that out as we continue moving through the 4t. I've already seen the way you use terms and seem to be using the term authoritarian the same way.

Even Nazis claimed to stand for freedom -- from the 'slavery' of the Versailles treaty and from the alleged Jewish conspiracy against gentiles. Commies spoke often for freedom from capitalist exploitation.

We need a healthy mix of incentives to promote small business which does much more to create jobs than do giant organizations.  The net growth in employment by Fortune 500 corporations, the ones that hire armies of lobbyists to get tax breaks, has been negative since 1940. Technological innovation has been good for reducing the need for manufacturing workers, and the factory has typically been the most reliable escape from poverty.

I don't deny that partisan advantage is cyclical, but one needs remember that some political trends (like homophobia and segregation) die. Who taught us liberals the cause to despise your personal agenda? You have done that well by suggesting the inevitability of horrific violence. You define people like yourself as the only genuine expressions of some vague concept of "America" that excludes a disproportionate number of peoples unlike you in creed and ethnicity. I have heard and seen such rhetoric in America, often by people who prance around in silly robes and burn crosses. I have seen analogies that do much the same in other countries, and when regimes transform such beliefs into public policy one gets horrific results. As a German-American who accepts the ethical teachings of Christianity I must recognize Jews as my brethren for morals and culture.

We have big problems to solve, including bigotry. Our tax system basically rewards people for already being very rich, which is not good for spreading the blessings of private enterprise beyond shareholders and executives who have often found more profit as importers than as manufacturers. As an example, General Motors makes more profit off its lending for the sale of vehicles and comparatively little from sales of cars. We have a mass culture that fosters cynicism and contempt for learning... so it is possible that those who live in cultures that reject such fare better. Because of the wonders of an Internet that can expose us to everything from the masterpieces of 19th-century Russian music and literature to overt porno we need solid liberal-arts education just to make wise choices in life.

Wisdom is freedom. Wisdom allows people to improve themselves and make use of time not at work. We can produce and manage all that we need in far less the forty hours a week that seemed so necessary in the 1930's. You manifestly lack it.

[Eric the Green]

(03-10-2022, 08:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-10-2022, 01:30 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-09-2022, 11:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-09-2022, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-08-2022, 11:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're not liberal. You're to partisan to be liberal. As matter of fact, none of you are as liberal as me on the issues that matter most to you. I mean, none of you would even consider increasing domestic oil production or building more nuclear power plants these days. I'm not a neoliberal. If I was a neoliberal, I would have voted for Clinton and Biden instead of Trump like the neoliberal minded GOP's  did back in 2016 & 2020. Global trading matters to me but it doesn't matter more to me than the country. Trump was a direct threat to the  neoliberal establishments and he still is today. Reagan didn't have anything to do with what the Presidents that followed him did or the trade agreements they made while they were in office.

To be liberal today is to be a partisan Democrat. That's because the alternative is so reactionary, as you are. You don't understand neoliberalism. You choose not to. The champion of neoliberalism was Reagan. Reagan had everything to do with all the presidents of the next 40 years and the entire Republican Party. You deliberately choose not to understand that. You could if you chose to.

How can you be liberal if you're a partisan Democrat? That makes no sense. As far as what the man had say about neoliberalism, I agree with most of what he had to say and if you were to have payed more attention to the beginning of his lecture and compare it to what I said about Reagan not being responsible for the decisions and the agreements made by the Presidents who followed him and the problems mainly related to them and the problems we are facing as a nation today. You're going to disagree but if you really listened to him, you're part of the problem not the solution. If you listened to his solution and the words he used to describe those who represent the solution and the kind of country that's needed as a solution. It's Us. You say you're not a neoliberal yet you voted for two of them because you're a partisan Democrat. I guess that makes you either a hypocrite or a moron.

That's what a liberal is today, a Democrat. Greens have gone off the deep end to some extent; independents are too easily swayed by who knows what (but usually by the right), and the conservative right is now almost entirely right wing crazies. Because I really listen to him, I know that Reagan instituted neoliberalism and the presidents who followed him more or less followed him. If you know about neoliberalism you know that it came to power in 1980, with Reagan and Thatcher.

I had a hunch you might agree with some of the things he said. Like most people who vote Republican, you don't really know what you are voting for.

I know what I've been voting for over the years. I've been voting for my freedom along with millions of others on the American right. What have you been voting for, keeping poor people poor and reliant upon Liberals and the states they control? Who taught you all the crap that you say about Us? How much of the crap you say is true? We don't say crap about you, we say what we know about you that we obtained from you. You seem to be a player. So, what's at stake for you? You keep telling me you're liberal but I don't see much of anything liberal about you. I see someone who acts like/looks like he has a substantial stake of being lost. Me, I have a stake in an American country like seventy some million (probably a lot more than that today now that Biden's been in office) Americans. But, I'm not concerned about losing it because America is to powerful as a group. Biden has already shown us he has some Putin in him when tried to impose senseless mandates and his failed attempt to undo most everything related to Us and the power that we represent as a group. Do you see a larger voting block in the country today? You say you're not a neoliberal but you sure seem like one or at least seem like a useful tool to me. So, who is the largest manufacturer of car batteries, is it Us or China right now? It's China right.  Other than the inner workings of the Democratic party and Democratic politics in general, I don't think you have a flipping clue or a care in the world about anything important to the rest of the American people. You said it yourself, you are a partisan Democrat. You better change your name to Eric the Democrat since your ditching the Greens. Like I said, you part of the problem not the solution. We're the solution and you'll find that out as we continue moving through the 4t. I've already seen the way you use terms and seem to be using the term authoritarian the same way. Why you're using terms (racist, fascist) like defense mechanisms or a means to divide or a means to end dissent or control is beyond me because it ain't working and it's only exposing what you truly are beneath the surface. I used to use so called liberals to describe you guys back when there was a mixed group of Democratic supporters as a way to distinguish between the group. It took me about a year to get the American minded Democrats out of the way or to be truthful out of harms way. After that, it was pretty much a group of Liberal's vs a dedicated group of Americans with the decent Democrats chiming in from time to time but remaining neutral for the most part. Well, we are almost there now. So, why would we use our guns to seal your fate when you're doing a good of that yourselves.

We Democrats are doing the best we can to save America and restart progress, which must be done to save America. When a nation regresses and goes backward and fails to meet the needs of its people as the USA has done since neoliberalism was installed into power by Ronald Reagan (Reaganomics is just another name for neoliberalism), it cannot survive. You are not the solution, if you support Republicans; you are part of the problem. You don't know what you are voting for if you don't recognize that. Republicans support the wealthy keeping their wealth. That's why they oppose taxes. They support destruction of the environment and poor wages; that's why they oppose regulations on business. That's neoliberalism. It's just a choice. 

I am still Eric the Green because I still agree with the original key values of the Green Party, more or less anyway. Besides, my name has a nice ring to it, and it's a nice play on words.

Vaccine and mask mandates were needed, because when we as individuals do not do them this threatens the health of other people. This was not a freedom or individual rights issue.

I remind you also that free trade policies are part of Reaganomics and neoliberalism, although for sure the moderate "new" Democrats like the Clintons adhered to some neoliberal policies, without a doubt. Republicans are the ones who have allowed industries to move to China through support for free trade and opposition to tariffs, much more than Democrats. Although President Trump made lots of noise and some ineffective policies to oppose free trade and impose tariffs, that is the only respect in which he is not a neoliberal. Being more-or-less correct on one issue is not good enough when there are so many other vital issues.

[David Horn]

(03-11-2022, 05:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: We Democrats are doing the best we can to save America and restart progress, which must be done to save America. When a nation regresses and goes backward and fails to meet the needs of its people as the USA has done since neoliberalism was installed into power by Ronald Reagan (Reaganomics is just another name for neoliberalism), it cannot survive. You are not the solution, if you support Republicans; you are part of the problem. You don't know what you are voting for if you don't recognize that. Republicans support the wealthy keeping their wealth. That's why they oppose taxes. They support destruction of the environment and poor wages; that's why they oppose regulations on business. That's neoliberalism. It's just a choice. 

I am still Eric the Green because I still agree with the original key values of the Green Party, more or less anyway. Besides, my name has a nice ring to it, and it's a nice play on words.

Vaccine and mask mandates were needed, because when we as individuals do not do them this threatens the health of other people. This was not a freedom or individual rights issue.

I remind you also that free trade policies are part of Reaganomics and neoliberalism, although for sure the moderate "new" Democrats like the Clintons adhered to some neoliberal policies, without a doubt. Republicans are the ones who have allowed industries to move to China through support for free trade and opposition to tariffs, much more than Democrats. Although President Trump made lots of noise and some ineffective policies to oppose free trade and impose tariffs, that is the only respect in which he is not a neoliberal. Being more-or-less correct on one issue is not good enough when there are so many other vital issues.

Neoliberalism was an expected outgrowth of the 3T, because that's a near perfect metaphor for let-it-rip. Everyone who wanted to be in office was a player -- the rare exceptions not to the contrary. Now the real question is: has technology allowed the moneyed elite the luxury of financing such exquisite propaganda that they can coast all the way through the 4T without getting dinged in any way? So far, they're doing a bang-up job of finding allies among the very people they hurt the most.

If very little gets resolved in the 4T, and the 1T runs true to form, then the Gided Age 2.0 may gain enough momentum that reversing the obvious abusive practices we already see will become nearly impossible short of a 2T that looks like a 4T on steroids. Let's hope for more sanity, but accept the possibility that this will be the fate of our children and grandchildren.