Does this Crisis echo the Glorious Revolutuon?

[SomeGuy]

(01-31-2017, 05:25 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 05:16 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 04:49 PM)Odin Wrote: Tulsi Gabbard isn't a progressive, Mary, she's a conserva-Dem on a lot of issues.

She's also hot.  Major crossover appeal. 

Oh, I wouldn't mind her as a candidate, It just drives me nuts that so many "Bernie-Bro" types adore her simply because she backed Sanders without looking at her actual policy positions, it shows how much they are a personality cult.

Eh, they take what they can get.  I could actually see Tulsi going the distance, but probably not in 2020.  And as a "conserva-Dem", she could end up being a potential Clinton to Trump's Reagan, if things play out that way.  There's a fair amount of political overlap there.

Once again, it all really depends on how the Trump admin goes.

[Marypoza]

(01-31-2017, 05:25 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:me-- your last sentence sez it all: they should go home & STFU. Actually l can think of some Boomers ( starting with the Donald & $hillary) & Xers (Ryan) who need to go home & STFU too

Even Bernie?   

-- only if he wants to
Seriously, what if Bernie had STFU? All these ppl that he awakened  last yr, that he continues to awake, might never have woke up.  Should he STFU & not take on the Donald? So yeah, Silents should enjoying their retirement, if that's what they want, but we shouldn't tell them to STFU

Quote:me--But ya know, it got me thinking, does the Grey Champion have to be a prez? Bernie going toe to toe with the Donald (who should really STFU) got me thinking, mebbe he could be our Grey Champ?

SomeGuy Wrote:The myth of the Grey Champion was very much based on someone not a president.  So, you can cling to it if you want.  Me, I've thought of Bernie as a pussy since that rally in Seattle where he let two random women push him away from the microphone.  Plus caving to Hillary at every conceivable opportunity.

-- well Bernie did say if he ever told us who to vote for, not to listen to him. I admire Bernie. It pisses me off that he's not our Prez. But l don't worship him. I don't think anybody does anymore. Those fools bailed when Bernie refused to run as a Green, & started paying lip service to the hildabitch. Said Bernie sold us out. Well Bernie said he would support the Dem nominee & he kept his word, even tho the DNC screwed him over & nobody would of blamed him if he had run Green.  But that would only hurt him in the long run. By playing their game, Bernie not only kept his commitee poitions, but got a new one- outreach. Which allows him to bring Berniecrats into the party.

As for the Seattle incedent, that could of escalated into something awful, which is what the $hillbots wanted, of course (the local BLM denied any responsibility, never heard of the women involved, a bogus fb page had been put up the morning of the rally, then abandoned. After some investigation, those women were/are suspected of being pd trolls) Bernie defused the situation nicely

Quote:me-- I'm just sayin what l heard. I forget where l heard Uncle Joe say he was considering it, but Bernie did not rule it out when asked about it on his CNN Town Hall. 3 yrs is a long way off, things can change. Bernie in particular would probably step aside if enough Berniecrats step up to the plate

SomeGuy Wrote:Yeah, I don't buy it.  And if that's what you are pinning your hopes on...  

--nope. 2020's a few yrs off. Too early to tell

 
me--as both. You think these pols just pop up whole cloth? Millies need to run in munincipal & state elections, & maybe the House if they aren't already. As the 2020s progress they move into the Senate, & eventually the WH. Speaking of which, John Kennedy-a Civic- moved into the WH @ age 42, so it could happen. It depends how bad this Crisis turns out to be. They are already the largest voting bloc, & will get bigger when the last cohort (my 16 yr old nieces, et al) turn 18. Meanwhile, the Silents & 1st wave Boomers are dying off. So yeah, l can see the Millies throwing out the dinosaurs (your term, not mine) thruout the 2020s

Quote:Emphasis mine.  They don't pop up fully formed like flies from shit, there is a whole career progression that is generally needed.  So, there are not enough of them (us) there now to "throw the bums out" completely by 2024.  Boomers will gradually phase out over the course of the 2020s, and Millies will become more prominent, but Xers in particular are going to be there for a while.

Sorry.

-- l said it's a possibility. Depends on how the coming Crisis is (mis)handled. But yeah they will gain prominent thru the 2020s. That is for certain

[Marypoza]

(01-31-2017, 05:25 PM)Odin Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 05:16 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 04:49 PM)Odin Wrote: Tulsi Gabbard isn't a progressive, Mary, she's a conserva-Dem on a lot of issues.

She's also hot.  Major crossover appeal. 

Oh, I wouldn't mind her as a candidate, It just drives me nuts that so many "Bernie-Bro" types adore her simply because she backed Sanders without looking at her actual policy positions, it shows how much they are a personality cult.

-- keep in mind she pissed off alot of Dems going on that trip & so now they are smearing her.  Conflating her positions with that of her Dad's who, as l understand it, is beyond conservadem- he's a flat out DINO. How far the apple falls from the tree... we'll have to watch her & see what is true & what is smear. I'll tell you this however- she made that trip with my homeboy Dennis & l can tell you his progessive bona fides are without question. Infact there is talk of getting him & Nina to team up for a gubanatorial run next yr. Tulsi also stood up for Standing Rock. Only other pols l can think of off the top of my head are Dennis, Bernie, & Jill. Not even Liz l'm Part lndian Warren is speaking up for them.  

2020 is a few yrs off. Let's see how this rolls

[Eric the Green]

(01-31-2017, 02:55 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:42 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:14 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Insanity: reading Eric's posts, but not paying any attention to what he writes, over and over again

Not really.  Eric produces reams of posts, like uh 3500+.   No human can pay attention to all of that stuff.

-- not the Eric definition of insanity, the Einsteinian definition of insanity

They are the same

Tulsi is guilty. Or, correctly diagnosed, I mean.

[Marypoza]

(02-01-2017, 04:02 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:55 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:42 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:14 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Insanity: reading Eric's posts, but not paying any attention to what he writes, over and over again

Not really.  Eric produces reams of posts, like uh 3500+.   No human can pay attention to all of that stuff.

-- not the Eric definition of insanity, the Einsteinian definition of insanity

They are the same

Tulsi is guilty. Or, correctly diagnosed, I mean.

-- Eric you are hopeless

[Eric the Green]

(02-01-2017, 10:05 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-01-2017, 04:02 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:55 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:42 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:14 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Insanity: reading Eric's posts, but not paying any attention to what he writes, over and over again

Not really.  Eric produces reams of posts, like uh 3500+.   No human can pay attention to all of that stuff.

-- not the Eric definition of insanity, the Einsteinian definition of insanity

They are the same

Tulsi is guilty. Or, correctly diagnosed, I mean.

-- Eric you are hopeless

Hopelessly sane. Now Tulsi, I have correctly diagnosed her as living in a fantasy world. She has concocted an American war that does not exist, and gone there to observe what she already believed. Now that might be pretty hopelessly insane!

[Eric the Green]

(01-31-2017, 02:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:53 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:45 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:02 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- & the neolibtards & the vile progs. We  need real progressive direction. Nancy & her buds ain't offering that. 
You're right about them offering same old same old, however. I don't want that. Are you familiar with the Einsteinian definition of insanity?

I don't see that you have given any basis for saying why you don't want what Nancy and her buds offer.

Other than perhaps clinging to Tulsi's horrendous delusions. Imagine someone who is blind to the fact that a tyrant has killed 400,000 of his people, and blames it on the rebels against him instead, and even the USA which has done almost nothing. I have no respect for holocaust deniers like Tulsi. I have respect for people rising up against tyrants for freedom and justice. That's progress to me; maybe not to you and Tulsi?

-- while you & Rags were tete-a-teteing, l was googling tulsi holocaust denial & came up with zip. You got a link to that?

There need be no link. She is denying the holocaust in Syria.

-- but not the Holocaust. Which is what you implied. I have fun going back & forth with you, which is why l don't get pissed @ you like some others here do, but that was really low Eric 

Otoh, Tulsi's been taking alot of heat for that trip, so she must of done something right. My homeboy Dennis was with her too, so l know it was all good 

I don't know who Dennis is (Kucinich? a has-been; I finally guessed since now I know you're from Ohio), but what's going on in Syria is definitely a holocaust (if not THE "holocaust"), perpetrated by a ruthless, genocidal dictator named Assad upon his people who rose peacefully against him and demanded that he help them in their economic and climate-caused distress. Instead he kills 400,000 of his people and forces most of the rest out of his country and onto the shores of terrified Europeans and paranoid Trumpians. Horrible; the worst thing since Hitler. And Tulsi simply denies it. Incredible. Insane.

[Marypoza]

(02-02-2017, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:53 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:45 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't see that you have given any basis for saying why you don't want what Nancy and her buds offer.

Other than perhaps clinging to Tulsi's horrendous delusions. Imagine someone who is blind to the fact that a tyrant has killed 400,000 of his people, and blames it on the rebels against him instead, and even the USA which has done almost nothing. I have no respect for holocaust deniers like Tulsi. I have respect for people rising up against tyrants for freedom and justice. That's progress to me; maybe not to you and Tulsi?

-- while you & Rags were tete-a-teteing, l was googling tulsi holocaust denial & came up with zip. You got a link to that?

There need be no link. She is denying the holocaust in Syria.

-- but not the Holocaust. Which is what you implied. I have fun going back & forth with you, which is why l don't get pissed @ you like some others here do, but that was really low Eric 

Otoh, Tulsi's been taking alot of heat for that trip, so she must of done something right. My homeboy Dennis was with her too, so l know it was all good 

I don't know who Dennis is (Kucinich? a has-been; I finally guessed since now I know you're from Ohio), but what's going on in Syria is definitely a holocaust (if not THE "holocaust"), perpetrated by a ruthless, genocidal dictator named Assad upon his people who rose peacefully against him and demanded that he help them in their economic and climate-caused distress. Instead he kills 400,000 of his people and forces most of the rest out of his country and onto the shores or terrified Europeans and paranoid Trumpians. Horrible; the worst thing since Hitler. And Tulsi simply denies it. Incredible. Insane.

-- Eric, a general rule of thumb: when ppl say the word "holocaust, the holocaust is question is usually the one that happened during WW2. So a holocaust denier (& there are plenty, but Tulsi is not among them) refers to somebody who denies that particular holocaust.   Now don't get me wrong- 400,000 ppl is a gawd-awful body count.. but nothing compared to 6 million dead bodies. Hell it ain't even 10%. The WW2 holocaust still rules. And I really wish ppl wouldn't trivialize that horror show. Same thing with calling Assad Hitler. Bad as he is, he's still eating Hitler's dust. And as for the Orange Menace.. bitch puh-leeze. 

Tulsi's not denying it. She's simply saying the Govt shouldn't be arming IS. And that any peace deal has to involve Assad. Considering he's the Syrian prez, that's just common sense

As for my homeboy Dennis, call him washed up, but l was merely stating that his progressive bona fides are not in question if you (or Odin, or anybody is doubting Tulsi's ) he was marginalized by the Dems for being their conscience, this last census they merged his district with neighboring ones & managed to get him out of Congress 
It's possible he's positioning himself for a gubenatorial run next yr, if so that would be cool

[Odin]

Mary must be from Cleveland, AKA the Mistake on The Lake?

Yeah, I liked Kucinich, though he was a bit goofy, LOL!

[Marypoza]

(02-02-2017, 09:05 PM)Odin Wrote: Mary must be from Cleveland, AKA the Mistake on The Lake?

Yeah, I liked Kucinich, though he was a bit goofy, LOL!

-- hell no!! Normally l'd take that as an insult, but l'll excuse you since l was talking up Dennis. He is the only decent thing to come outta there

[Eric the Green]

(02-02-2017, 07:12 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:53 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:45 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- while you & Rags were tete-a-teteing, l was googling tulsi holocaust denial & came up with zip. You got a link to that?

There need be no link. She is denying the holocaust in Syria.

-- but not the Holocaust. Which is what you implied. I have fun going back & forth with you, which is why l don't get pissed @ you like some others here do, but that was really low Eric 

Otoh, Tulsi's been taking alot of heat for that trip, so she must of done something right. My homeboy Dennis was with her too, so l know it was all good 

I don't know who Dennis is (Kucinich? a has-been; I finally guessed since now I know you're from Ohio), but what's going on in Syria is definitely a holocaust (if not THE "holocaust"), perpetrated by a ruthless, genocidal dictator named Assad upon his people who rose peacefully against him and demanded that he help them in their economic and climate-caused distress. Instead he kills 400,000 of his people and forces most of the rest out of his country and onto the shores or terrified Europeans and paranoid Trumpians. Horrible; the worst thing since Hitler. And Tulsi simply denies it. Incredible. Insane.

-- Eric, a general rule of thumb: when ppl say the word "holocaust, the holocaust is question is usually the one that happened during WW2. So a holocaust denier (& there are plenty, but Tulsi is not among them) refers to somebody who denies that particular holocaust.   Now don't get me wrong- 400,000 ppl is a gawd-awful body count.. but nothing compared to 6 million dead bodies. Hell it ain't even 10%. The WW2 holocaust still rules. And I really wish ppl wouldn't trivialize that horror show. Same thing with calling Assad Hitler. Bad as he is, he's still eating Hitler's dust. And as for the Orange Menace.. bitch puh-leeze. 

Tulsi's not denying it. She's simply saying the Govt shouldn't be arming IS. And that any peace deal has to involve Assad. Considering he's the Syrian prez, that's just common sense

As for my homeboy Dennis, call him washed up, but l was merely stating that his progressive bona fides are not in question if you (or Odin, or anybody is doubtig Tulsi's ) he was marginalized by the Dems for being their conscience, this last census they merged his district with neighboring ones & managed to get him out of Congress 
It's possible he's positioning himself for a gubenatorial run next yr, if so that would be cool

The Trumpheads benefit greatly from Assad/Tulsi propaganda that he's fighting "terrorists" and the USA is arming them. Trumpfaces think that Syrians are terrorists and should not be allowed in. What if we had done that to the Jews in WWII? The behavior of the USA under Trump is worse by far than the behavior of the USA under FDR, even considering the camps for Japanese. 

The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. It's the only proper word for it. To deny it, is to deny the lessons we should have learned from THE Holocaust. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Dennis was great; I went to hear him; I got to meet him and shake his hand. Sorry to say that in recent years he has increasingly devolved into conspiracy theory. He's not so cool anymore.

[Ragnarök_62]

Eric The Green Wrote:The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

"Fighting and bombing IS" = conducting warfare in Syria. Obviously, the US needs to stop this. Btw, Trump needs to stop messing with Iran. The last thing we need is yet another pointless war in the Mideast.  See.... I can be fair and balanced.
So you admit we're doing at least one war of choice, still.

Quote:And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Godwin's law, man. It's not the US's job to fix every fucking humanitarian mess in the world. The proper role of the US military is to only defend the US.  Of course, I'll look more into Tulsi.  For now, I think she rocks.

Quote:Dennis was great; I went to hear him; I got to meet him and shake his hand. Sorry to say that in recent years he has increasingly devolved into conspiracy theory. He's not so cool anymore.

What's Dennis's position on wars of choice?  I may like him.

[Marypoza]

(02-03-2017, 12:25 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 07:12 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 01:53 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There need be no link. She is denying the holocaust in Syria.

-- but not the Holocaust. Which is what you implied. I have fun going back & forth with you, which is why l don't get pissed @ you like some others here do, but that was really low Eric 

Otoh, Tulsi's been taking alot of heat for that trip, so she must of done something right. My homeboy Dennis was with her too, so l know it was all good 

I don't know who Dennis is (Kucinich? a has-been; I finally guessed since now I know you're from Ohio), but what's going on in Syria is definitely a holocaust (if not THE "holocaust"), perpetrated by a ruthless, genocidal dictator named Assad upon his people who rose peacefully against him and demanded that he help them in their economic and climate-caused distress. Instead he kills 400,000 of his people and forces most of the rest out of his country and onto the shores or terrified Europeans and paranoid Trumpians. Horrible; the worst thing since Hitler. And Tulsi simply denies it. Incredible. Insane.

-- Eric, a general rule of thumb: when ppl say the word "holocaust, the holocaust is question is usually the one that happened during WW2. So a holocaust denier (& there are plenty, but Tulsi is not among them) refers to somebody who denies that particular holocaust.   Now don't get me wrong- 400,000 ppl is a gawd-awful body count.. but nothing compared to 6 million dead bodies. Hell it ain't even 10%. The WW2 holocaust still rules. And I really wish ppl wouldn't trivialize that horror show. Same thing with calling Assad Hitler. Bad as he is, he's still eating Hitler's dust. And as for the Orange Menace.. bitch puh-leeze. 

Tulsi's not denying it. She's simply saying the Govt shouldn't be arming IS. And that any peace deal has to involve Assad. Considering he's the Syrian prez, that's just common sense

As for my homeboy Dennis, call him washed up, but l was merely stating that his progressive bona fides are not in question if you (or Odin, or anybody is doubtig Tulsi's ) he was marginalized by the Dems for being their conscience, this last census they merged his district with neighboring ones & managed to get him out of Congress 
It's possible he's positioning himself for a gubenatorial run next yr, if so that would be cool

The Trumpheads benefit greatly from Assad/Tulsi propaganda that he's fighting "terrorists" and the USA is arming them. Trumpfaces think that Syrians are terrorists and should not be allowed in. What if we had done that to the Jews in WWII? The behavior of the USA under Trump is worse by far than the behavior of the USA under FDR, even considering the camps for Japanese. 

The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. It's the only proper word for it. To deny it, is to deny the lessons we should have learned from THE Holocaust. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Dennis was great; I went to hear him; I got to meet him and shake his hand. Sorry to say that in recent years he has increasingly devolved into conspiracy theory. He's not so cool anymore.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...syria-iraq

Eric, you're going hyperboyle again. It don't matter whether we like the asshole or not, he's head of the country & you can't cut him out of any negotiations. It would be like cutting the Donald out of any negotiations involving our country. Oh wait.. you're down with that too arentcha?

Take a chillpill & call me in the morning

[Marypoza]

(02-03-2017, 12:43 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Eric The Green Wrote:The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

"Fighting and bombing IS" = conducting warfare in Syria. Obviously, the US needs to stop this. Btw, Trump needs to stop messing with Iran. The last thing we need is yet another pointless war in the Mideast.  See.... I can be fair and balanced.
So you admit we're doing at least one war of choice, still.

Quote:And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Godwin's law, man. It's not the US's job to fix every fucking humanitarian mess in the world. The proper role of the US military is to only defend the US.  Of course, I'll look more into Tulsi.  For now, I think she rocks.

Quote:Dennis was great; I went to hear him; I got to meet him and shake his hand. Sorry to say that in recent years he has increasingly devolved into conspiracy theory. He's not so cool anymore.

What's Dennis's position on wars of choice?  I may like him.

-- he's against them. He voted against war in Iraq in 2003 & campaigned for prez on it in 2004. He didn't make it past the1st few primaries & released his delegates to Edwards. He also opposed bambam's wars of choice & was one of the few ppl to speak out against bambam's shitty policies. The Shitcago thugs took him for a plane ride. He kept a low profile after that. After the 2010 census his district was eliminated- absorbed into neighboring districts- he lost a primary to Marcy Kaptur, & his seat in Congress. He's still raising hell as a private citizen however:

https://m.facebook.com/denniskucinich/?t...=typeahead

[Marypoza]

Yup, past time to retire bitch

http://observer.com/2017/02/nancy-pelosi...appearance

[Eric the Green]

(02-03-2017, 12:43 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Eric The Green Wrote:The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

"Fighting and bombing IS" = conducting warfare in Syria. Obviously, the US needs to stop this. Btw, Trump needs to stop messing with Iran. The last thing we need is yet another pointless war in the Mideast.  See.... I can be fair and balanced.
So you admit we're doing at least one war of choice, still.

That would be conducting war in eastern Syria, which Assad does not control; yes. It is arguably a war of choice, although it's almost entirely in Iraq and not Syria; but in my opinion it's a good choice, as long as it's mainly waged by Iraq and not the USA except in a supporting role. The IS is as bad as Assad. Syria is occupied by the two worst regimes since Hitler. Arguably Bush helped to create the IS part of it. So it's our duty to help fix it, at least in Iraq. It was going well, until Trump got in. Now Drump is insulting the Iraqis, and we may be thrown out. You'd like that result, but I think the IS is a cancer that has to be wiped out.

Meanwhile Tulsi is not protesting the USA war against the IS. She is protesting the USA war against Assad that does not exist.

Quote:

Quote:And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Godwin's law, man. It's not the US's job to fix every fucking humanitarian mess in the world. The proper role of the US military is to only defend the US.  Of course, I'll look more into Tulsi.  For now, I think she rocks.

Syria is not every goddam humanitarian mess in the world; it's the worst mess in the world. It would have been wise to support the free rebels without invading or bombing. We didn't do enough. The result are problems that have affected us and helped elect a madman. And it's not Tulsi's place, therefore, to say that Assad is the president, and to say what a peace deal should be like there either, then. There's no use about her complaining about a USA war with Assad, or about supporting terrorists fighting against him. She is trying to "fix the mess" by saying the USA should not conduct a war of choice against Assad in western Syria. It is useless, since the USA is not conducting a war of choice against Assad in western Syria.

[Eric the Green]

(02-03-2017, 01:29 AM)Marypoza Wrote: Yup, past time to retire bitch

http://observer.com/2017/02/nancy-pelosi...appearance

If progressives want her to retire, then they should find a suitable replacement to run against her. They didn't.

[Eric the Green]

(02-03-2017, 12:51 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:25 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 07:12 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-31-2017, 02:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote: -- but not the Holocaust. Which is what you implied. I have fun going back & forth with you, which is why l don't get pissed @ you like some others here do, but that was really low Eric 

Otoh, Tulsi's been taking alot of heat for that trip, so she must of done something right. My homeboy Dennis was with her too, so l know it was all good 

I don't know who Dennis is (Kucinich? a has-been; I finally guessed since now I know you're from Ohio), but what's going on in Syria is definitely a holocaust (if not THE "holocaust"), perpetrated by a ruthless, genocidal dictator named Assad upon his people who rose peacefully against him and demanded that he help them in their economic and climate-caused distress. Instead he kills 400,000 of his people and forces most of the rest out of his country and onto the shores or terrified Europeans and paranoid Trumpians. Horrible; the worst thing since Hitler. And Tulsi simply denies it. Incredible. Insane.

-- Eric, a general rule of thumb: when ppl say the word "holocaust, the holocaust is question is usually the one that happened during WW2. So a holocaust denier (& there are plenty, but Tulsi is not among them) refers to somebody who denies that particular holocaust.   Now don't get me wrong- 400,000 ppl is a gawd-awful body count.. but nothing compared to 6 million dead bodies. Hell it ain't even 10%. The WW2 holocaust still rules. And I really wish ppl wouldn't trivialize that horror show. Same thing with calling Assad Hitler. Bad as he is, he's still eating Hitler's dust. And as for the Orange Menace.. bitch puh-leeze. 

Tulsi's not denying it. She's simply saying the Govt shouldn't be arming IS. And that any peace deal has to involve Assad. Considering he's the Syrian prez, that's just common sense

As for my homeboy Dennis, call him washed up, but l was merely stating that his progressive bona fides are not in question if you (or Odin, or anybody is doubtig Tulsi's ) he was marginalized by the Dems for being their conscience, this last census they merged his district with neighboring ones & managed to get him out of Congress 
It's possible he's positioning himself for a gubenatorial run next yr, if so that would be cool

The Trumpheads benefit greatly from Assad/Tulsi propaganda that he's fighting "terrorists" and the USA is arming them. Trumpfaces think that Syrians are terrorists and should not be allowed in. What if we had done that to the Jews in WWII? The behavior of the USA under Trump is worse by far than the behavior of the USA under FDR, even considering the camps for Japanese. 

The USA is NOT arming IS; the USA is fighting and bombing IS. She can't seem to get that obvious fact straight. That is denial big time, and a massacre of this size today is comparable to Hitler. It is a huge disaster. It is a new holocaust, and it isn't over. It's the only proper word for it. To deny it, is to deny the lessons we should have learned from THE Holocaust. To deny that the USA is helping the Free Syrian Army, and that they represent the Syrian people, is to deny that they rose up against the tyrant and were answered with murder. It is to deny the biggest war crime of our time. Tulsi is denying the biggest war crime of our time. This I cannot respect.

And Tulsi is dead wrong. She's demanding that today's Hitler be part of a "peace deal?" How insane. No peace deal can involve Assad. The only peace possible on those terms is victory by Assad, which means most of his people are dead or gone. Assad can never be the legitimate ruler of his country again. John Kerry was wise enough to see that.

Dennis was great; I went to hear him; I got to meet him and shake his hand. Sorry to say that in recent years he has increasingly devolved into conspiracy theory. He's not so cool anymore.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...syria-iraq

Eric, you're going hyperboyle again. It don't matter whether we like the asshole or not, he's head of the country & you can't cut him out of any negotiations. It would be like cutting the Donald out of any negotiations involving our country. Oh wait.. you're down with that too arentcha?

Take a chillpill & call me in the morning

It's not going to work. A chill pill won't change the facts I have known for 5 years and counting. Assad is not acceptable to the people that he murdered and forced into exile.

The Turks, Russians and Iranians are trying their hand at negotiating with the rebels and Assad. Best wishes to them. We the USA dealt ourselves out by not backing the free Syrians sufficiently to give ourselves any bargaining position. 

You can't negotiate from weakness. I have little hope for this; the best that can be hoped for is that Turkey might guarantee a small area as a safe zone for the Syrian people; a sort of Gaza Strip for the free Syrian people. I doubt either the Free Syrians nor Assad would recognize this arrangement for long, if ever.

As for Trump, I wonder if you would recognize him as "a leader to negotiate with and recognize" if he killed 20 million Americans and forced 100 million of us into exile, merely because he didn't like what we were saying. Is this possible?

[Ragnarök_62]

(02-03-2017, 01:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

Eric The Green Wrote:Syria is not every goddam humanitarian mess in the world; it's the worst mess in the world. It would have been wise to support the free rebels without invading or bombing.

::Facepalm:: And again. There ain't no such thing as "moderate rebels".  That's an oxymoron.

Quote: We didn't do enough. The result are problems that have affected us and helped elect a madman. And it's not Tulsi's place, therefore, to say that Assad is the president, and to say what a peace deal should be like there either, then.

Since Assad is the strongman in charge, ya gotta sometimes make deals with the devil.  Sorry, but rainbows and unicorns shitting gold bricks are rare in the real world.  

Quote:There's no use about her complaining about a USA war with Assad, or supporting terrorists fighting against him. She is trying to "fix the mess" by saying the USA should not conduct a war of choice against Assad in western Syria.

She talked with ordinary Syrians as well and they said stop meddling. That's sufficient.

Quote: It is useless, since the USA is not conducting a war of choice against Assad in western Syria.

Then what kind of war is it, bright boy?

source= http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...now-214678
BTW, I got a note from the Arab world on teh interwebs.  It's hilarious

Arab World Wrote:Dear America,
We have been watching the drama of your presidential elections with much interest and curiosity for some time now. It’s hard not to notice the many similarities between our own countries and yours. From fiery inauguration protests and bitter disputes about crowd size, to the intelligence service’s forays into politics and the rise of right-wing extremists, it appears that you are traveling very much in our direction—and at the same time, like us, becoming a curiosity for foreign correspondents trying to explain what’s happening in your region to the world. You might be distraught about where you are headed, but we aren’t! Perhaps this will be an opportunity to put our differences aside and recognize how similar we are.

Let’s start at the beginning. During the campaign we were surprised to learn of the influence that the head of the American mukhabarat (state security, i.e. your FBI) can wield over the election process, simply by choosing to pursue a certain line of investigation. As you may know, this has been a constant feature of our politics since independence. Our surprise turned to astonishment when we started to witness the blossoming feud between the then-president-elect and the American mukhabarat, another important feature of Arab politics. On top of that, we started to hear reports of foreign meddling in your elections, which some say may have influenced the result. Of course, we are quite familiar with that situation, too, not least because of the efforts of your own administrations over the decades. Yet it came as a surprise to hear talk of “foreign hands” and “secret agendas” in a country like America. We sympathize.
On the bright side, this was also the moment that the conspiracy theories started to spread. You know us; we’re quite fond of conspiracy theories—particularly when they involve plots by external powers—and consider ourselves connoisseurs of the genre. Your plots are a bit rough around the edges, we have to admit, but top marks for creativity. Was the election of Trump a Russian conspiracy? Was talk of the Russian conspiracy a liberal conspiracy to undermine Trump? Did the mukhabarat leak information to help Trump? Did the mukhabarat leak information to hurt Trump? Was media coverage of Trump’s mukhabarat conspiracy theories part of a liberal conspiracy theory to bring him down? They’re all so deliciously complex and open-ended, much like our own.
Things started to get even more interesting when your liberals started to rally around the heroic CIA branch of the mukhabarat in order to fend off the threat of extremists in power and external meddling from Russia. You will recall that we have had similar experiences in recent years in Egypt, Tunisia and Syria, and we were disappointed when the world didn’t understand our position. Nonetheless, it was moving to see these public displays of affinity for state security, the enlightened guardians of the nation.
Lately, we have even started to hear rumblings about the American “deep state.” Now that’s also something we’re familiar with, and it raises so many interesting prospects. Will the deep state try to unseat the new president? Will the judiciary try to block his political program? Which side will the Army take? Will foreign correspondents start talking about the “shadow organs of the American state”? How will Hollywood, the entertainment arm of the deep state, use its power to oppose the president? We’re getting dizzy with excitement.
And by the way, speaking of the Army, while we were a little bit disappointed at first that the president doesn’t have a military background, he quickly moved to remedy that by appointing a number of generals to high-level positions within the administration. We are hoping that they will attend Cabinet meetings in their uniforms; there’s something quite reassuring about the leader of the nation being surrounded by military outfits—just consider Saddam Hussein.
Trump is clearly into big military displays. The military marching down Pennsylvania Avenue. The military flying over New York City and Washington D.C. during parades. Here’s someone who really understands how great leaders think. (We can also recommend excellent tailors to make him his own exquisite military uniforms.) Thanks to the new president, we can now use the term “American regime”; your country has fully earned the honor.
Of course, another crucial aspect to this transformation is the president’s contemptuous attitude towards the media. My, the delightful similarities. From blaming the press for engaging in secret conspiracies to undermine him to threatening their access to his White House palace to refusing to take questions from certain reporters, President Trump reminds us of several of our own leaders. In fact, an Arab leader complaining about CNN coverage is pretty much a staple of our political life.
This took an interesting turn on Saturday when the president accused the media of manufacturing his feud with the mukhabarat and his Minister of Information Mr. Sean Spicer castigated the media for reporting the size of Trump’s inauguration crowd. The not-so-veiled threats by the president and Mr. Spicer to the media are very much in the spirit of Arab governance.
We are waiting to see how exactly President Trump plans to deal with the intrusions of the meddling and irksome press. So far, he reminds us of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who perhaps more than any other leader has been leading the movement to put the press back in its place. Will he continue to follow Mr. Erdogan’s example of gradually diluting the freedom of the press or will he choose the Arab approach and replace the entire media with one or two state media organs?
The moment at which we felt real solidarity with the American people, though, was when we started hearing BBC reporters talking to your citizens with the patronizing tone they normally reserve for the Middle East. Correspondents were sent to far-flung corners of the United States to talk to farmers and factory workers to try to understand how they feel and to ask condescending questions. I’m from the British Broadcasting Corporation, are you familiar with the BBC? Where do you get your news from? Do you feel angry? Does religion play a role in how you are voting?. (The only thing missing were pictures of people with blue ink on their thumbs; please consider introducing that practice in the future.)
There was talk, too, of rural strongholds and urban bastions. Deep social and geographic divisions whose origins go back in time. They’re not quite tribal divisions, but there was more than enough religious and political sectarianism to ignite our interest. Who are the liberals and the conservatives and how did their disagreement begin? What’s the difference between alt-right and the Tea Party? What’s the origin of the schism between the neo-conservatives and paleoconservatives? Watching foreign correspondents trying to explain the differences was mesmerizing.
And then there’s the unrest. In the lead up to the inauguration, we started to hear about youth protests against the new regime. Come on! This is bordering on plagiarism now. Please write your own plots and stop borrowing ours. Although, we usually wait for leaders to take power before we start protesting; we like your preemptive revolution approach.
And the inauguration, what a spectacular show: protests, riots, tear gas—it had all the necessary ingredients of an Arab revolution. We saw pictures of broken windows at Bank of America, and a limo engulfed in flames. The Black Block apparently made an appearance. Someone burned an effigy of Mr. Trump and an American flag. (OK that was in Canada, but still). We look forward to more of those moments being captured on camera and turned into photo essays in the foreign press.



A potential new flag for the United States. | Image courtesy of the author


If you want these protests to be successful spectacles, though, here are a few crucial tips: Use social media and talk about the importance of Twitter and Facebook in spreading the protest movement. Make sure to highlight that your movement is leaderless and organic. Emphasize the fact that you don’t belong to any traditional political parties or have established ideologies. Come up with catchy slogans. And above all, make sure you stress that you are the moderates. Journalists and analysts like to hear this stuff, as we discovered during our own protests.
And be careful about receiving help from external powers. We hear that both Canada and Mexico might try to interfere in your internal politics. With the Russians already involved, this is promising to shape up into an international confrontation. Be prepared for a flood of think-pieces about whether intervention in America is right or wrong, whether regime change can come quickly or whether it will become a protracted conflict, whether a proxy war is in the cards.
A word of warning though, before embarking on this path. We tried the revolution thing ourselves, and it didn’t work out so well. Maybe you should just adapt to living in the new regime. We were always told that having a strongman in charge is the best solution for Arab countries, otherwise there would be chaos. Perhaps the American people are not ready for democracy after all. Let’s face it America, you look like an Arab country now.
Sincerely,
The Arab World
Ps. We have taken the liberty of re-designing your flag; do you like it? Also, we’re attaching an application form to the Arab League, consider joining.

Uh, Arabs y'all forgot one small item.  The US also produces lots of oil.  We're just like y'all that way too. Oh, and please send us some camels.  We have some deserts for 'em.

[Eric the Green]

(02-03-2017, 02:01 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: 1. ::Facepalm:: And again. There ain't no such thing as "moderate rebels".  That's an oxymoron.


2. Since Assad is the strongman in charge, ya gotta sometimes make deals with the devil.  Sorry, but rainbows and unicorns shitting gold bricks are rare in the real world.  


3. She talked with ordinary Syrians as well and they said stop meddling. That's sufficient.


4. Then what kind of war is it, bright boy?

1. I didn't call them moderate; I called them the free Syrians. That's what they are.

2. No, this is not one of those times. In any case, this idea that Tulsi is promoting ("deal with assad") is extremely uninformed. The USA has no further ability to make ANY deals with him. We have no leverage. That's the real world, man. You can't negotiate with kumbaya and rainbows.

3. She brought her preconceived ideas with her, and they didn't change. There's plenty of observers there who have talked with Syrians who say otherwise. I have heard and seen these Syrians many times. She is just being selective to fit her own ideas.

4. You don't get it. There IS no such war.