Thread Rating:
  • 2 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Local GOP office in North Carolina firebombed
#21
(10-17-2016, 01:28 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-17-2016, 05:34 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm less concerned with impressions of which fragment of the spiral of violence is more threatening than the state of the spiral over all.  It takes two to spiral.  Both sides have to have a notion that the best way to stop the other side's violence is to intimidate them with one's own violence.

Isn't this what we expect for a generational crisis?

Not all generational crisis issues have domestic spirals of rhetoric and violence that blow up into full scale conflict. The US had them for the Revolution and Civil War, but did not have internal spirals that fully build up for either the Great Depression or World War II.

The focus of the hypothetical immediate crisis is also still vague. I think Reagan's welfare queen meme is the unifying element. Supposedly, the black slums were full of unwed mothers seeking bigger welfare checks. Thus, the right thing to do was cut entitlement programs. This unites the themes of racism and small government supply side economics. It was a key element of the Southern Strategy, pulling in the racist vote while restoring the misery inducing pre-FDR tax policies.

For decades, generation X and the Millenials have disliked and snubbed the Boomer's idealism and intensity. Heck, even the Boomers gave up on their idealism and intensity. Without the idealism and intensity, there has not been and can not be a regeneracy. While I'm not pleased with Trump in any way, he might be stoking the flames, definitely metaphorically, and also by serving as a target for fire bombs. A poisoned mix of trumped up trickle down, racism and hints of violence has been brought out in the open. While Trump himself might be unelectable, I do expect a replacement demagogue with less baggage to polish and amplify Trump's approach.

Basically, we have turned over a rock and found a bunch of deplorables crawling around down there. I don't know that we can put the rock back.
Reply
#22
(10-18-2016, 09:43 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(10-17-2016, 01:28 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-17-2016, 05:34 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm less concerned with impressions of which fragment of the spiral of violence is more threatening than the state of the spiral over all.  It takes two to spiral.  Both sides have to have a notion that the best way to stop the other side's violence is to intimidate them with one's own violence.

Isn't this what we expect for a generational crisis?

Not all generational crisis issues have domestic spirals of rhetoric and violence that blow up into full scale conflict.  The US had them for the Revolution and Civil War, but did not have internal spirals that fully build up for either the Great Depression or World War II.

We certainly had internal spirals of violence in the 1930s with labor unrest.  WWII did intervene to provide a unifying foreign enemy, but arguably the same could be said for Britain as far as the U.S. was concerned in the Revolutionary War.

Quote:The focus of the hypothetical immediate crisis is also still vague.  I think Reagan's welfare queen meme is the unifying element.  Supposedly, the black slums were full of unwed mothers seeking bigger welfare checks.  Thus, the right thing to do was cut entitlement programs.  This unites the themes of racism and small government supply side economics.  It was a key element of the Southern Strategy, pulling in the racist vote while restoring the misery inducing pre-FDR tax policies.

For decades, generation X and the Millenials have disliked and snubbed the Boomer's idealism and intensity.  Heck, even the Boomers gave up on their idealism and intensity.  Without the idealism and intensity, there has not been and can not be a regeneracy.  While I'm not pleased with Trump in any way, he might be stoking the flames, definitely metaphorically, and also by serving as a target for fire bombs.  A poisoned mix of trumped up trickle down, racism and hints of violence has been brought out in the open.  While Trump himself might be unelectable, I do expect a replacement demagogue with less baggage to polish and amplify Trump's approach.

Basically, we have turned over a rock and found a bunch of deplorables crawling around down there.  I don't know that we can put the rock back.

And I could as legitimately paint Trump as the idealistic good guy, too, fighting for the ordinary working man against the greedy elites represented by Clinton.  But I thought you said you weren't so concerned about which part of the spiral to blame.
Reply
#23
(10-18-2016, 12:34 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: And I could as legitimately paint Trump as the idealistic good guy, too, fighting for the ordinary working man against the greedy elites represented by Clinton. 

You could, but "a closer look" (as Seth Myers might call it) shows that this is just empty propaganda. Trump is painting himself as the idealistic working-class populist as you say, but he is a trickle-downer, which strongly boosts business interests against the little guy. "Lower taxes, less government": that's the deceptive mantra. Just like Trump deceives the people into thinking that a crony capitalist fraudulent billionaire could be their champion, he also deceives the people using the time-honored Reaganoid slogans that say "big breaks to big business and the "job creaters" (Bush pronunciation) will boost the economy for the people." It is a huge failure, and not only that, it is the kind of race baiting that Trump is just making more explicit. Trickle-down just provides lower taxes and fewer regulations to big business; period. And the immigrants he wants to stop are no threat to anyone's jobs except to those jobs that white people don't want and don't take anyway. It's a Yuge ruse.

Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses. Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.

You have a reference for this "news item"? I will look too......

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/2...fter-year/

One credible report about California. The other items I saw on google were not from neutral sources (breitbart, The Federalist, Washington Times); not credible at all.

California seems not caught up on its database, unlike other states it has not complied with the requirements of the post hanging-chads year laws.

But as you said, dead people voting in CA is not going to affect Trump. This report was in the primary anyway, not the general. And according to Nate Silver, Trump has less than a .1% chance in CA. And it's not rigging; it's inadequate verification procedures. I am a precinct inspector in CA, and I can see how mail-in ballots could be signed and mailed or dropped off, and if there's no other verification, fraud might occur.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#24
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses. Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.


If he and Gary Johnson combined outpoll Hillary and Jill Stein combined, as they will almost surely do, Trump already has the excuse thing covered.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
Reply
#25
(10-18-2016, 02:08 PM)Anthony Wrote:
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses.  Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.


If he and Gary Johnson combined outpoll Hillary and Jill Stein combined, as they will almost surely do, Trump already has the excuse thing covered.

Um, they don't:

Clinton + Stein = 48.3
Trump+Johnson = 45.5
Reply
#26
(10-18-2016, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses.  Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.

You have a reference for this "news item"? I will look too......

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/2...fter-year/

One credible report about California. The other items I saw on google were not from neutral sources (breitbart, The Federalist, Washington Times); not credible at all.

I'll give you that Brietbart and the Federalist are the right's answer to the left's New York Times.  The Washington Times is a mainstream source, though, and provides a good summary of ten cases:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016...ts-all-to/

Here's a local Colorado source verifying the Colorado case.  They're a CBS affiliate, so if anything lean left:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/cb...-colorado/

I'm sure you can dig up verification of the other nine cases cited by the Times if you're actually interested.
Reply
#27
(10-18-2016, 04:02 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses.  Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.

You have a reference for this "news item"? I will look too......

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/2...fter-year/

One credible report about California. The other items I saw on google were not from neutral sources (breitbart, The Federalist, Washington Times); not credible at all.

I'll give you that Brietbart and the Federalist are the right's answer to the left's New York Times.  The Washington Times is a mainstream source, though, and provides a good summary of ten cases:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016...ts-all-to/

Here's a local Colorado source verifying the Colorado case.  They're a CBS affiliate, so if anything lean left:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/cb...-colorado/

I'm sure you can dig up verification of the other nine cases cited by the Times if you're actually interested.

No, the Times, founded by Rev. Moon, is not a credible source. It is right-wing, and the NY Times is not left-wing.

However, I give you the CBS report in Colorado. I note though this was "dozens" and not "thousands." It is fraud by some voters taking advantage of lax voter registration procedures for mail-in ballots, not "rigging" by or for one side or another. I assume these situations will be taken care of before the general election; I certainly hope so, especially in my state.

I notice there's a headline saying Trump claims "Two Million dead people are registered to vote."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2..._vote.html

So, that's even more than the "thousands" that you say. What won't the Republicans say to distract attention from their horrible candidates and policies?

Thanks for pointing this out, Warren. It is important to make sure dead people don't vote.

At least, not unless they have a competent medium, or are able to reincarnate Smile I doubt "channeled" voters are legal either, though. Maybe someday!



"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#28
(10-18-2016, 04:02 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'll give you that Brietbart and the Federalist are the right's answer to the left's New York Times.  The Washington Times is a mainstream source, though, and provides a good summary of ten cases:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016...ts-all-to/

Here's a local Colorado source verifying the Colorado case.  They're a CBS affiliate, so if anything lean left:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/cb...-colorado/

I'm sure you can dig up verification of the other nine cases cited by the Times if you're actually interested.

The NYT is left-wing and the Moonie Times is somehow mainstream? In what reality? Rolleyes
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
#29
(10-18-2016, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: the NY Times is not left-wing.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about your disconnects from reality.  This is the newspaper that for years refused to accept the fact that we have neanderthal heritage because they considered the recent out of Africa theory the only politically correct theory.
Reply
#30
Quote:Clinton + Stein = 48.3
Trump+Johnson = 45.5


But races always tighten at the very end - and this one will be no different.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
Reply
#31
(10-19-2016, 08:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: the NY Times is not left-wing.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about your disconnects from reality.  This is the newspaper that for years refused to accept the fact that we have neanderthal heritage because they considered the recent out of Africa theory the only politically correct theory.

You don't go to the newspaper for anthropology.

Neanderthals also came out of Africa; just earlier than homo sapiens sapiens
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#32
(10-18-2016, 03:45 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 02:08 PM)Anthony Wrote:
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses.  Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.


If he and Gary Johnson combined outpoll Hillary and Jill Stein combined, as they will almost surely do, Trump already has the excuse thing covered.

Um, they don't:

Clinton + Stein = 48.3
Trump+Johnson = 45.5

Most of Johnson's support comes from millennials who supported Bernie, or would vote for another Democrat but not vote for either Hillary or Trump.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#33
(10-19-2016, 08:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: the NY Times is not left-wing.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about your disconnects from reality.  This is the newspaper that for years refused to accept the fact that we have neanderthal heritage because they considered the recent out of Africa theory the only politically correct theory.

Left wing press. Hmmmmm. Maybe it's just that people whose job it is to look at the facts, are reporting the facts?

[Image: 14681883_10209554871141577_2962525148867...e=588F1463]
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#34
(10-19-2016, 08:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: the NY Times is not left-wing.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about your disconnects from reality.  This is the newspaper that for years refused to accept the fact that we have neanderthal heritage because they considered the recent out of Africa theory the only politically correct theory.

WTF does THAT have anything to do with politics? Major news outlets are notoriously bad at reporting science in general. There is no opposition on the left to the recent discovery that non-Africans have about 2% of their DNA from Neandertal origin. You are probably confusing that with old, disproven "Multiregionalist" theories claiming that modern human populations are directly decended from earlier H. erectus populations, a notion popular among by Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists. Despite the small amounts of Neandertal and Denisovan DNA, the remaining 95-98% of our DNA is African in origin.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
#35
(10-20-2016, 07:06 AM)Odin Wrote:
(10-19-2016, 08:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 04:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: the NY Times is not left-wing.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about your disconnects from reality.  This is the newspaper that for years refused to accept the fact that we have neanderthal heritage because they considered the recent out of Africa theory the only politically correct theory.

WTF does THAT have anything to do with politics? Major news outlets are notoriously bad at reporting science in general. There is no opposition on the left to the recent discovery that non-Africans have about 2% of their DNA from Neandertal origin. You are probably confusing that with old, disproven "Multiregionalist" theories claiming that modern human populations are directly decended from earlier H. erectus populations, a notion popular among by Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists. Despite the small amounts of Neandertal and Denisovan DNA, the remaining 95-98% of our DNA is African in origin.

I've been seeing the word 'pivot' quite a bit in the debate reviews.  When a discussion isn't going in a direction favorable to the debater, he changes the subject.  As everyone knows the weak points in their positions, folk often have fixed approaches to move off topic without addressing the faults in their position.
Reply
#36
(10-18-2016, 03:45 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(10-18-2016, 02:08 PM)Anthony Wrote:
Quote:I think everyone realizes Trump is just setting up an excuse if he loses.  Not that the elections aren't rigged - the recent news items on thousands of dead people voting shows that they are - but they aren't specifically rigged against Trump.


If he and Gary Johnson combined outpoll Hillary and Jill Stein combined, as they will almost surely do, Trump already has the excuse thing covered.

Um, they don't:

Clinton + Stein = 48.3
Trump+Johnson = 45.5



Trump + Johnson + McMullin = 64.3 million popular votes
Clinton + Stein = 61.2 million popular votes

Oops!
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Local vs national response to the pandemic sbarrera 2 133 03-18-2020, 12:43 PM
Last Post: David Horn
  Ex-GOP Lawmaker: Trump Is “Illegitimate President,” Should Be Impeached mily 21 1,696 12-09-2019, 11:36 PM
Last Post: married1959
  Trump clears way for local police to obtain military gear nebraska 0 364 01-23-2018, 02:22 AM
Last Post: nebraska
  North Carolina is no longer classified as a democracy nebraska 0 392 01-03-2018, 10:41 PM
Last Post: nebraska
  Trump Just Made War With Iran and North Korea More Likely Than Ever nebraska 0 345 01-03-2018, 08:24 PM
Last Post: nebraska
  GOP Far From United naf140230 0 899 01-07-2017, 09:51 PM
Last Post: naf140230
  The GOP Has Been HIJACKED! Anthony '58 217 69,862 10-14-2016, 07:55 AM
Last Post: Bob Butler 54
  But What If Trump is the GOP's Iturbide? Anthony '58 5 1,974 10-08-2016, 10:51 AM
Last Post: Bob Butler 54
  Nuclear War with North Korea? Eric the Green 2 1,224 09-10-2016, 01:08 PM
Last Post: Bob Butler 54
  GOP Fails To Unify naf140230 23 8,435 07-28-2016, 05:12 PM
Last Post: Classic-Xer

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)