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We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
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(08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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08-14-2019, 02:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019, 02:03 PM by Marypoza.)
(08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
-- where I come from we were sent out 2 play til the street lites came on
& my Mom had a washer & a vacuum cleaner. So did my Lost Grammas. I can remember helping my 1 Gramma with her wringer washer & the other Gramma had a canary that rode on her vacuum cleaner
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This may have reflected the nature of the Crisis which began with mass unemployment (women got eased out of the workplace so that men could have jobs to support families) and ended with an over-heated economy (Win the War with production!)
Mass unemployment among men creates trouble in the form of extremist movements that offer a uniform, purpose, and action. Men got the industrial jobs that they turned over to Rosie the Riveter while they went to fight fascism, and women get their husbands back. Fascism might be described cynically as testosterone meeting resentment and frustration.
America was productive enough that it could make enough stuff in forty hours of work per couple.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(08-15-2019, 10:57 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: America was productive enough that it could make enough stuff in forty hours of work per couple.
We still are. In fact, we're much more productive now than then, but seem to need two 50-hour a week workers to satisfy the needs of the owner class. Since the benefits stopped flowing down a long time ago, the willingness to continue in this vein will stop at some point. That point may be soon; I hope so.
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(08-15-2019, 10:57 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: America was productive enough that it could make enough stuff in forty hours of work per couple.
We still are. In fact, we're much more productive now than then, but seem to need two 50-hour a week workers to satisfy the needs of the owner class. Since the benefits stopped flowing down a long time ago, the willingness to continue in this vein will stop at some point. I certainly hope that point is soon … very soon.
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(08-15-2019, 10:57 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: This may have reflected the nature of the Crisis which began with mass unemployment (women got eased out of the workplace so that men could have jobs to support families) and ended with an over-heated economy (Win the War with production!)
Mass unemployment among men creates trouble in the form of extremist movements that offer a uniform, purpose, and action. Men got the industrial jobs that they turned over to Rosie the Riveter while they went to fight fascism, and women get their husbands back. Fascism might be described cynically as testosterone meeting resentment and frustration.
America was productive enough that it could make enough stuff in forty hours of work per couple.
America was productive enough that it could make enough stuff in forty hours of work per couple.
Not only that, but most could also afford to take a two-week family vacation once a year. This is something that seems to have gone the way of the rotary telephone. Just saw a post on LinkedIn about this, which I pasted over on my no-vacation nation thread. Now so many workers feel as if they have to defend or justify why they would need to take a vacation. Many workers now have little or no fringe benefits of any kind.
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08-16-2019, 05:19 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019, 05:20 PM by Marypoza.)
(08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
-- NOBODY male or female, s/b 4ced 2 have sex if they don't want 2
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(08-16-2019, 05:19 PM)Marypoza Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
-- NOBODY male or female, s/b 4ced 2 have sex if they don't want 2
True that!
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(08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
My point stays: They saw their mothers doing housework more often than their fathers doing their day job.
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(08-19-2019, 07:55 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: (08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
My point stays: They saw their mothers doing housework more often than their fathers doing their day job.
...and that makes all the difference in the world. They were also unlikely to recognize that things were far harsher in the recent past for kids born twenty to forty years earlier. They saw the rewards for work, dedication, and organizational deference without seeing the work, dedication, and organizational deference -- and thought that they could get away with not having to make personal sacrifices for building the System. If they ended up having to do real work (that is, if they came from a blue-collar or impoverished background). then they got to learn the hard way -- and to be seen as livestock at best if they accepted their roles and vermin if they showed any resistance to economic oppression.
Among elite Boomers, any evidence of having experienced hardship was evidence of personal failure. After all, poor people were to take vicarious delight in watching economic elites indulge themselves while enduring frustration of their dreams and difficult achievement even of daily needs.
Boomers as bosses were arguably the worst business executives ever, in practice acting as if they graduated from the "Henry Clay Frick School of Industrial Relations".
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(08-19-2019, 07:55 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: (08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
My point stays: They saw their mothers doing housework more often than their fathers doing their day job.
True enough, though equally true of most prior generations too.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(08-16-2019, 04:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: (08-14-2019, 02:02 PM)Marypoza Wrote: (08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
-- where I come from we were sent out 2 play til the street lites came on
& my Mom had a washer & a vacuum cleaner. So did my Lost Grammas. I can remember helping my 1 Gramma with her wringer washer & the other Gramma had a canary that rode on her vacuum cleaner
Wish my mother let me do that. Roam around till the lights came on. She barely let me out the house. I have one good fond memory as a child when my mother amazingly let me go to the mall with my neighbour and her mother and it was only because she was in a good mood and the mother would be going with us and she was friends with my friends mum. My friends mum let us roam free around the mall for TWO HOURS and it was AWESOME! Two hours I could roam and have fun and play music in the music store and play playstation in the gaming store and have fun with my friend. I was sure we would be screamed at for being gone so long but her mother just had us called on the overhead speaker to meet her somewhere and when we got there we were given a lollypop and ice cream. My mother would have smacked the living crap out of me and id be grounded and screamed at. My neighbours mother gave me a wonderful memory ill never forget and it is how it feels of for that moment in time to be free to have fun with a good friend.
And this is why a lot of the older generation were morons as parents. It's a pretty stupid mentality. "Let's brag about how much freedom we had as kids yet not allow our kids the same. Let's not allow our kids to do anything then when that they are too soft. Let's give our kids participation trophies then use it to insult them." How did their brains rot so much? It's truly a sign of being illogical with a low IQ.
Grounded for going out alone? If she didn't allow you to do anything that's like being grounded already so you had nothing to lose for the punishment. I'd just do what I wanted and worry about the consequences later because either way is a punishment. Yes in theory it would be different but I'm not a big theory person.
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(08-20-2019, 03:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: And this is why a lot of the older generation were morons as parents. It's a pretty stupid mentality. "Let's brag about how much freedom we had as kids yet not allow our kids the same. Let's not allow our kids to do anything then when that they are too soft. Let's give our kids participation trophies then use it to insult them." How did their brains rot so much? It's truly a sign of being illogical with a low IQ.
Grounded for going out alone? If she didn't allow you to do anything that's like being grounded already so you had nothing to lose for the punishment. I'd just do what I wanted and worry about the consequences later because either way is a punishment. Yes in theory it would be different but I'm not a big theory person.
Focus your whining on the generation that actually did what you claim. I'm a Boomer, and my kids were Xers. We let them have a lot of freedom -- just like we had, but we didn't have stay-at-home mothers to be there when things went south. We all worked. Those Xers were the ones who clamped down, and maybe I can't really blame them. They had freedom, but high risk too. They decided on safety for their kids -- mainly YOU!
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08-20-2019, 05:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2019, 05:25 PM by AspieMillennial.)
(08-20-2019, 04:17 PM)David Horn Wrote: (08-20-2019, 03:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: And this is why a lot of the older generation were morons as parents. It's a pretty stupid mentality. "Let's brag about how much freedom we had as kids yet not allow our kids the same. Let's not allow our kids to do anything then when that they are too soft. Let's give our kids participation trophies then use it to insult them." How did their brains rot so much? It's truly a sign of being illogical with a low IQ.
Grounded for going out alone? If she didn't allow you to do anything that's like being grounded already so you had nothing to lose for the punishment. I'd just do what I wanted and worry about the consequences later because either way is a punishment. Yes in theory it would be different but I'm not a big theory person.
Focus your whining on the generation that actually did what you claim. I'm a Boomer, and my kids were Xers. We let them have a lot of freedom -- just like we had, but we didn't have stay-at-home mothers to be there when things went south. We all worked. Those Xers were the ones who clamped down, and maybe I can't really blame them. They had freedom, but high risk too. They decided on safety for their kids -- mainly YOU!
I base this on what I see people around my age writing online about how they were parented and how people younger than me were parented and are parented today. It's not directed at you or at my parents but at a bunch of people out there who decided to act like morons. I used to think Gen Xers got many of their ideas for how Millennials were parented from the TV and not real life until I started to read people's internet posts.
If it was for their kids I wouldn't see Gen Xers on the internet bragging about the freedom they got as kids in the 70s and 80s and then deciding to be helicopter parents to their little Aiden or Jayden. It's contradicting themselves to brag about their childhoods but then deny it to their own kids. Most of the risks people talk about are risks from the 24/7 news media that always exaggerates threats over and over. I don't trust the mass media or the social media. Either way it's propaganda. Kids are also mass medicated too. That too is a stupid social norm. Oh yes let's tell children to be themselves while medicating all differences out of them. Makes perfect sense.
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(08-20-2019, 02:34 PM)David Horn Wrote: (08-19-2019, 07:55 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: (08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
My point stays: They saw their mothers doing housework more often than their fathers doing their day job.
True enough, though equally true of most prior generations too.
My point is: All other generations that followed (X, Millies, HLers) were not like that, not anymore. They all are more likely to have mothers who went to work - and like the Boomers with their hard-working dads, they don't see how their mothers are working. There's a generational watershed behind the Boomers.
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08-22-2019, 09:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2019, 09:34 PM by Marypoza.)
(08-22-2019, 08:15 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (08-20-2019, 02:34 PM)David Horn Wrote: (08-19-2019, 07:55 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: (08-14-2019, 10:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-14-2019, 09:57 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: We know that when the Boomers were kids, most mothers stayed housewifes to care for their kids. As a result, most Boomers had a way closer relationship to their mothers than to their fathers.
At the end, this hurt the [G.I.] fathers: The Boomer kids saw their mothers doing housework (and these mothers were the last generation of housewives who didn't have vacuum cleaners, washing machines etc. At least not all the time.). But the Boomers never saw their fathers at work.
This must have contributed to the Boomers rebelling against their fathers, and supporting feminism.
Despite the fact that many male feminists were crooks of the worst kind. Like Sol Wachtler who helped making rape during marriage a crime (until then, wives had the duty to agree with sex), and later harassed a woman himself. Fucking hypocrite.
To be totally honest, most Boomer kids rarely hung with their mothers either. We tended to be feral children: sent out to play until dinner time.
My point stays: They saw their mothers doing housework more often than their fathers doing their day job.
True enough, though equally true of most prior generations too.
My point is: All other generations that followed (X, Millies, HLers) were not like that, not anymore. They all are more likely to have mothers who went to work - and like the Boomers with their hard-working dads, they don't see how their mothers are working. There's a generational watershed behind the Boomers.
-- whenever l start buying into that fallacy about women not working until the 1070s l tell myself Mare, your Grandmother ran a jewelry store (& she ran it during the Depression & supported 8 kids off the income from that store, but that's another story) Those post WW2 years when most Gl & Silent women didn't have to work were an anamoly.B4 & after many women worked. In factories, restaurants, hospitals- most nurses were women. Same with schoolteachers & clerical workers. Maybe upper class women did not have to work, but working class women.... well there's a reason it's called the working class
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That's anecdotal evidence. And there were so many bored middle class housewives around. What do the statistics say?
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(08-23-2019, 01:30 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: That's anecdotal evidence. And there were so many bored middle class housewives around. What do the statistics say?
https://www.grunge.com/10181/historical-...men-worked
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(10-25-2019, 12:16 PM)Marypoza Wrote: (08-23-2019, 01:30 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: That's anecdotal evidence. And there were so many bored middle class housewives around. What do the statistics say?
https://www.grunge.com/10181/historical-...men-worked
In the bad old days, everyone worked: men, women and children. We can't pretend that work is a brand new thing. Like MP, I had a widowed great aunt who raised her sister's five children by herself taking in laundry -- one was my father. Let's agree, it's better today. Let's also agree, it can be one hell of a lot better than it is.
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