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Did Boomer Individualism Help or Hurt America
#1
For discussion purposes only I am enclosing a roughly four-minute video on the subject. And while there is not a lot you can elaborate on in four minutes we can branch the discussion out and elaborate on the pros and cons here.  Once I posted a question as to whether the Millennials will be as successful as Boomers were in using their sheer force of numbers to set social, political and economic trends within the society. That poster who responded didn't seem to think so, but they do seem to be off to a very good start although I am sure the jury will be out for quite a while on this one. I do believe that they have pretty much dethroned the Boomers culturally although not yet politically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiq5BzaLCrA
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#2
"Boomer" individualism? Neither boomers nor millenials are individualistic.
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#3
The real problem is with Boomer elites in the economic sector. They took as much as they could for themselves while destroying opportunity for those who did not fit into a bureaucratic elite. If one ever had a hard time one was suspect as a malcontent, which demonstrates the ethos of Boomer right-wing politics. These elites effectively atomized us and offered us mass low entertainment or fundamentalist religion as anodynes. Such is good for keeping people unorganized so that they do not want to participate in anything, even labor unions.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#4
(10-02-2019, 07:14 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: "Boomer" individualism?  Neither boomers nor millenials are individualistic.

I can't speak for Millies, but there is certainly diversity among Boomers.  Most of the really unique, or at least eccentric and individualistic, Boomers are in the cultural arena.  The entire LGBTQ movement would have died on the vine if the Boomers never opened the closet doors and walked into the sunlight.  The same can be said for the neo-religious movements, some of which are ancient and have been brought back to life.  Others were always here and we chose not to notice.  Then, here is the counterculture, that still holds sway in some places.  One of those places is not far from where I live in and around Floyd County Virginia.  

Look where the arts flourish, and the diversity is right there in front of you.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#5
Boomer counterculture looks highly individualistic... and from it must have come much of the creative tendencies within Boomers. Sure, some of them went Establishment (Corporate America could co-opt any counterculture trend from which it could derive a profit, and in such Corporate America was often more fair than in other activities).

The Quest for the Interior is individualistic, whatever the generation. Idealist generations are more likely to do it and get away with it. Few GI's got to do it (maybe Alan Watts, Jack Kerouac, and Timothy Leary are so blatant that they are exceptions). Boomers, at least from the middle class who got to enjoy the genteel privacy of suburban life got to develop intellectual experiences that later generations could never get -- and won't until at least a 1T is well underway, and if this 4T is not an unimaginable disaster.

Generation X wasn't into it because it made little sense to most. The Millennial Generation has grown up in more hardscrabble conditions in which growing up has development of technical skills and networks held in greater importance.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#6
Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.
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#7
(10-29-2019, 08:32 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.

Neither do I, and I'm one myself.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#8
(10-29-2019, 01:41 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(10-29-2019, 08:32 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.

Neither do I, and I'm one myself.

That already makes you a positive exception.
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#9
(10-29-2019, 08:32 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.

Think of FDR and Churchill saving Western Christian Civilization... and Adenauer restarting it in western Germany.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#10
(10-29-2019, 01:41 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(10-29-2019, 08:32 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.

Neither do I, and I'm one myself.

In theory Boomers still could "do" something great. Unfortunately I don't think they have it in them. A large contingent of them are too busy fighting the Grey Orange Champion.

(10-30-2019, 10:21 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Think of FDR and Churchill saving Western Christian Civilization... and Adenauer restarting it in western Germany.

FDR didn't save Western Civilization, Christian or otherwise. Neither did Churchill. You can thank that success to the Lost and GIs who actually fought the necessary fight against the Axis. Both are and were completely replaceable with any other person willing to let the Generals and lower ranking officers get on with the task at hand.

As usual PBR you are too focused on the focal points.

As to individualism, it is natural to the American character. As a nation even our most collectivist generation (Millies) seems to be highly individualistic. I can't tell you how many different intersections of "oppression" the latest wave of "Progressives" can come up with.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#11
And Adenauer would have been nothing without the Allies winning the war. During the nazi time, he was busy enough hiding himself, no time for resistance.
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#12
(11-04-2019, 05:55 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(10-29-2019, 01:41 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(10-29-2019, 08:32 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Theoretically the Boomers might still do something great to fix all the messes they made during their lives - but I don't believe it.

Neither do I, and I'm one myself.

In theory Boomers still could "do" something great.  Unfortunately I don't think they have it in them.  A large contingent of them are too busy fighting the Grey Orange Champion.

(10-30-2019, 10:21 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Think of FDR and Churchill saving Western Christian Civilization... and Adenauer restarting it in western Germany.

FDR didn't save Western Civilization, Christian or otherwise.  Neither did Churchill.  You can thank that success to the Lost and GIs who actually fought the necessary fight against the Axis.  Both are and were completely replaceable with any other person willing to let the Generals and lower ranking officers get on with the task at hand.

As usual PBR you are too focused on the focal points.

As to individualism, it is natural to the American character.  As a nation even our most collectivist generation (Millies) seems to be highly individualistic.  I can't tell you how many different intersections of "oppression" the latest wave of "Progressives" can come up with.
Some of you who were around at the time may recall that Boomers were quite collectivist during their youth, then turned inward once they realized that they couldn’t really affect the kind of change they initially wanted. By the 1980s, especially the decade’s back half, they had become most of what they had formerly ridiculed. Passion for their work went into high gear, and that was what drive and propel the generation forward. They would focus the determination there, very goal oriented, leaving little room for sitting on the sidelines. Quite the opposite of the way they governed their youthful years.
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#13
It created a very colourful saeculum. Music from our cycle especially from the 1980s will probably be played for centuries. Same for movies and fashion. I can't imagine the boys of 2200 not knowing Rocky.

When it comes to politics, I prefer the Missionaries.
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#14
(11-10-2019, 06:59 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: It created a very colourful saeculum. Music from our cycle especially from the 1980s will probably be played for centuries. Same for movies and fashion. I can't imagine the boys of 2200 not knowing Rocky.

When it comes to politics, I prefer the Missionaries.

We Boomers have more in common with the Transcendentals, and that make us a bit scary.  I agree, the Missionaries were a better version of Prophet.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#15
(11-10-2019, 11:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 06:59 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: It created a very colourful saeculum. Music from our cycle especially from the 1980s will probably be played for centuries. Same for movies and fashion. I can't imagine the boys of 2200 not knowing Rocky.

When it comes to politics, I prefer the Missionaries.

We Boomers have more in common with the Transcendentals, and that make us a bit scary.  I agree, the Missionaries were a better version of Prophet.
Except that they did saddle society with Prohibition for thirteen years.
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#16
(11-10-2019, 11:54 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 11:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 06:59 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: It created a very colourful saeculum. Music from our cycle especially from the 1980s will probably be played for centuries. Same for movies and fashion. I can't imagine the boys of 2200 not knowing Rocky.

When it comes to politics, I prefer the Missionaries.

We Boomers have more in common with the Transcendentals, and that make us a bit scary.  I agree, the Missionaries were a better version of Prophet.

Except that they did saddle society with Prohibition for thirteen years.

We're all Prophets -- a group noted for being impractical but righteous.  At least, we haven't started ACW2 … so far.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#17
ACW2 is a "cold civil war". Most Americans in particular have no desire to murder each other en mass on remote cornfields. Xers and Zeds certainly have no desire for such. Millies might go for that as long as they can do it online.

As for righteous...Most prophets are righteous in their own minds only. No other archetype is most prone to vice.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#18
(11-12-2019, 10:35 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: ACW2 is a "cold civil war". Most Americans in particular have no desire to murder each other en mass on remote cornfields. Xers and Zeds certainly have no desire for such. Millies might go for that as long as they can do it online.

As for righteous...Most prophets are righteous in their own minds only. No other archetype is most prone to vice.

I think that the culture wars will continue at full throttle and then people will get tired of it after a while. That will bring the 1T mood.
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#19
(11-10-2019, 11:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 06:59 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: It created a very colourful saeculum. Music from our cycle especially from the 1980s will probably be played for centuries. Same for movies and fashion. I can't imagine the boys of 2200 not knowing Rocky.

When it comes to politics, I prefer the Missionaries.

We Boomers have more in common with the Transcendentals, and that make us a bit scary.  I agree, the Missionaries were a better version of Prophet.

I liked the Transcendentalists for their romanticism and idealism. They were like boomers in youth in that they could look outside the box of conventional views. They became very militant on both sides in the civil war though, similar to us today. Missionaries were more business oriented, and many were evangelists and prohibitionists, but there were some good visionaries and mystics in the group with a social gospel. It's a mixed bag.

But as for boomer era music (which was also Silent), the mid-60s through early 70s is the classic era whose music will last.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#20
Interestingly enough if that is the case of the differences between the two, boomers here in New Zealand are a mix of the two. I do not see the romanticism part at all, but idealism they have in abundance, however they are far more business orientated. Interesting to hear the differences. Chas had mentioned ages ago he thinks our boomers in my country are more like the missionaries and we are on the reverse cycle. Meaning in the USA you guys are in the Dionysian period and in NZ we are in the apollonian era. I can see why he considered that now.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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