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Why rural voters don’t vote Democratic anymore
#81
(12-08-2016, 02:21 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You can trust that rural voters will start turning against Trump and Pence when their precious kids start coming back in body bags from wars that Donald Trump gets into by starting Wars for Profit that don't go well for Americans who do the fighting.

No, they might rebel against economic depravation, but dying in wars is a patriotic thing that plays well in the hinterlands.  A depression, especially a really bad one, will get results.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#82
(12-08-2016, 09:10 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 08:14 AM)Odin Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 11:09 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 04:41 PM)Odin Wrote: A strong government is a necessary protector of the masses against elites wishing to create an outright oligarchy.

Oh come on.  GHWBush then GWBush then Jeb?  Bill then Hillary then Chelsea?  The government was already an outright oligarchy, hereditary no less.

LOL, Bill was born Arkansas white trash, he would have never become president in the first place if the US were a full-blown oligarchy. Rolleyes

I'm not saying we were already an oligarchy in 1992; that was a long time ago.  We are now, though.

Putting government in charge of protecting the people from the economic elites is definitely a fox guarding the hen house situation.

If you look at the 19th century, the ruling class and the owner class were bosom buddies and allies to the core.  Neither party bucked the moneyed elites then, and it doesn't happen now either.  The recent swing toward the oligarchic model started, arguably, under Nixon, when the tool of the elites, Evangelical Christianity, was brought into the GOP.  That's also the start of the Southern Strategy, were the antebellum South still survived in spirit.  Once both parties started running Sun Belt candidates, the model was complete.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#83
(12-08-2016, 09:10 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 08:14 AM)Odin Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 11:09 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 04:41 PM)Odin Wrote: A strong government is a necessary protector of the masses against elites wishing to create an outright oligarchy.

Oh come on.  GHWBush then GWBush then Jeb?  Bill then Hillary then Chelsea?  The government was already an outright oligarchy, hereditary no less.

LOL, Bill was born Arkansas white trash, he would have never become president in the first place if the US were a full-blown oligarchy. Rolleyes

I'm not saying we were already an oligarchy in 1992; that was a long time ago.  We are now, though.

Putting government in charge of protecting the people from the economic elites is definitely a fox guarding the hen house situation.

Yes.. We no longer have a representative democracy. Gerrymandering has made a mockery of the idea that the People be represented, as shown by an election in which the Democrats won a majority of the total vote for Congressional offices and the Republicans maintained a decisive majority of the House. Most of our Congressional Representatives take their instructions from lobbyists responsible only to their paymasters and largely neglect their constituents who don't agree with the lobbyists.

There were about ten countries of which I would rather be a citizen at the start of the year and about forty now.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#84
(12-08-2016, 09:10 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 08:14 AM)Odin Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 11:09 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 04:41 PM)Odin Wrote: A strong government is a necessary protector of the masses against elites wishing to create an outright oligarchy.

Oh come on.  GHWBush then GWBush then Jeb?  Bill then Hillary then Chelsea?  The government was already an outright oligarchy, hereditary no less.

LOL, Bill was born Arkansas white trash, he would have never become president in the first place if the US were a full-blown oligarchy. Rolleyes

I'm not saying we were already an oligarchy in 1992; that was a long time ago.  We are now, though.

Putting government in charge of protecting the people from the economic elites is definitely a fox guarding the hen house situation.

Yes it is, but only because too many people vote the way you do.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#85
(12-08-2016, 02:11 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 11:28 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: So apparently the solution is to give all power to the Master Class?

Economic elites have rarely never proved trustworthy with unrestrained power.

Fixed that for you.

Nice repair job there Smile
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#86
(12-08-2016, 07:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(12-08-2016, 02:11 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 11:28 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: So apparently the solution is to give all power to the Master Class?

Economic elites have rarely never proved trustworthy with unrestrained power.

Fixed that for you.

Nice repair job there Smile

Accepted correction. I tend to understate so that I can avoid making undue generalizations.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#87
Boomer intellectuals: Xers and millies are tired of the Human Rights tyranny.
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#88
I thought that this article might be of interest to posters and readers of this forum.

Quote:Who were the rural Americans that were instrumental in creating the current political reality? Joining a chorus of conversations on this topic comes the Census Bureau, bearing fresh data that helps paint a clearer, more nuanced picture of this famously aggrieved segment of the American population.
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#89
The article seems to demonstrate, contrary to its intention, that the physical facts are less important in shaping the great divide than cultural and social attitudes.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#90
(12-08-2016, 07:53 AM)Odin Wrote: Something I've noticed is that even in this election the parts of the rural Midwest Colin Woodard have as part of Yankeedom are significantly less Republican than other rural areas. Given that the Democrats have replaced the Republicans as the "Yankee" party that I expect that as older, more socially conservative voters begin to die that rural Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan will become more Democratic. Hell, Even Obama did very well in rural Wisconsin (he won almost every country in 2008) and Clinton's failure there was because she was such a terrible, tone-deaf candidate. Ironic given that Wisconsin is the birthplace of the Republican Party.

According to the exit polls the age gape is smaller in the upper midwest than the rest of the country; In Minnesota Trump won 18-24 year while losing voters over 65.  http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/.../president
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#91
(12-08-2016, 02:25 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(12-07-2016, 08:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-06-2016, 05:09 PM)Mikebert Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 10:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-03-2016, 08:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: On many such issues you can see someone claiming a right to live free, and another trying to prevent an evil using government authority.  The right to chose and the right to keep and bear can be seen as rights where one is and ought to be free to choose.  Gun deaths and the deaths of the unborn can be seen as evils.  If you wish to restrict the conversation to one issue only, sure, go ahead, but I'm not so inclined.  

These are but two of many issues separating the rural and urban populations.  I would like to nudge things in the direction of freedom and rights, and away from quashing evils when there is sizable and intense disagreement on whether the evil is truly evil or not.

I would think a lot of Libertarians would lean the same way.


I would take exception to describing the libertarian conspiracy as 'vast'.
I wouldn't underestimate the size of the r-libertarian coalition that is now taking shape. Think about it. Kinser and Classic, a gay black man and a straight white guy, a Marxist and an American capitalist, a cosmopolitan and a suburbanite, a believer and a non believer united and now perceived/seen as being on the same side. I don't have a problem with Democratic voters being allowed inside the Republican tent. I don't have a problem with people like Kinser being allowed in the Republican tent either. The Republican door swings both ways. The Republican door doesn't lock behind you and force you stay inside. I have more issues with the progressive minded blue base than I've had had with Kinser himself.
 Kinser isn't a Marxist anymore. Marxists are extremists, as are their counterparts on the Right like Nazis and White Supremacists. For some reason they seem able to shift from one extreme to another without ever going through the middle.  Most folks, like me and I suspect you move from point A to point B by traveling though the terrain in between.  He don't just start at one point in one instant and appear at another in the next.  But folks like Kinser do.
I bet he's still a Marxist at heart. Kinser doesn't have any interest in the Nazi's and White Supremacists. Come on, a gay black guy isn't going to join forces with them for obvious reasons. I eventually got into it with one of them not so long ago. It wasn't a pretty exchange as usual. Kinser is a much better writer than me.

Even I agree with you on Kinser except that I see no heart in him. I think he supports Donald Trump because he will make America so corrupt, inequitable, and otherwise miserable that it will be ripe for a Socialist insurrection of his choosing. He may see Donald Trump as America's equivalent of Fulgencio Batista.
Kinser knows America isn't going to change (adopt/convert Marxist socialism) without a major fight. He's got a heart. If he didn't have a heart, he wouldn't have chosen to become a father or chosen to enter into a more committed long term relationship with his boyfriend. As a father and a husband, I was clearly able to see there's a heart in him.
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#92
Kinser has also mentioned times he has been generous and thoughtful to others so I will agree with Classic on this one.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#93
(12-09-2016, 02:01 PM)The Wonkette Wrote: I thought that this article might be of interest to posters and readers of this forum.

Quote:Who were the rural Americans that were instrumental in creating the current political reality? Joining a chorus of conversations on this topic comes the Census Bureau, bearing fresh data that helps paint a clearer, more nuanced picture of this famously aggrieved segment of the American population.

Home ownership is much higher in rural America, and it is higher in some very poor rural communities than in prosperous urban areas.  Of course,  there may be some who live in tiny apartments in the cities during the workweek and return to the rural homestead on weekends and holidays, which might make some economic sense. But even without poverty, the landlord-tenant relationship is almost never one of chumminess. Owning a home makes one an asset-owner who sees taxes to pay, taxes that obviously cut into one's dreams of conspicuous consumption even if the tax revenue is collected for acceptable reasons.

Home owners are likely to be net creditors instead of net debtors. Just to meet ordinary repairs a home-owner needs to have some savings. If one rents a furnished apartment and the refrigerator goes bad, one calls the landlord and never sees the repair bill or the cost of a replacement refrigerator.

There is much rural poverty, but that largely involves non-white minorities. Those minorities vote heavily Democratic even in rural areas, probably because the Republican Establishment is associated with people who have treated those minorities badly in the past. Culture? Rural people are not the ignorant hicks of urban legend. They get much the same cable television and pop music as their urban counterparts get (allowing for ethnic differences); they are on line; they get as much formal schooling.

Rural dwellers miss out on two-hour one-way commutes on congested ten-lane freeways and high rental costs, crowds in the cities in which they work, and of course the ugliness of urban sprawl. Rural folks are usually closer to nature in some form, even if it is only an unremarkable grove of trees. City dwellers are generally deprived of any chance of seeing natural beauty, and not surprisingly they are environmentalists.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#94
(12-09-2016, 11:46 PM)Dan Wrote:
(12-08-2016, 07:53 AM)Odin Wrote: Something I've noticed is that even in this election the parts of the rural Midwest Colin Woodard have as part of Yankeedom are significantly less Republican than other rural areas. Given that the Democrats have replaced the Republicans as the "Yankee" party that I expect that as older, more socially conservative voters begin to die that rural Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan will become more Democratic. Hell, Even Obama did very well in rural Wisconsin (he won almost every country in 2008) and Clinton's failure there was because she was such a terrible, tone-deaf candidate. Ironic given that Wisconsin is the birthplace of the Republican Party.

According to the exit polls the age gape is smaller in the upper midwest than the rest of the country; In Minnesota Trump won 18-24 year while losing voters over 65.  http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/.../president

Well, fuck...
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#95
(12-03-2016, 03:57 AM)Galen Wrote:
(12-02-2016, 10:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for why rural people do not vote for democrats the answer is clear.  The Democratic party doesn't give a shit about them.  HRC made that abundantly clear when she essentially called these people a basket of deplorable.  The DNC and the Democratic Elites including the ethnic ones live in their own urban coastal bubble.

As a dark skinned homosexual black man I've received more bigotry and racism at the hands of so-called liberals than from any of the deplorable red necks I've been known to run with.

Pretty much sums up one of the major issues with the Democrats.

One of the things I always liked about the red necks is that unless you are messing with them they are perfectly content to leave you alone.  Liberals and progressives appear to be genetically incapable of leaving people alone.  The open hostility they have to, among other things, Christianity is one of the the reasons Hillary lost.  Say what you like about Trump, he is not openly hostile to Christianity.

Three years later:

1. Much of the educated, talented workforce that used to stay on the family farm no longer does (as if it ever did -- think of Abraham Lincoln, a superb attorney). As Grandpa and Grandma retire the grandchildren often ask to sell the farm so that the grandkids can get the sort of education better suited to treating cats and dogs in a veterinary clinic than to feeding the cattle or pigs on the farm. But by becoming veterinarians those kids (1) get exposed to liberal ideas more likely to lead them to the Democratic Party and (2) prepare them for moving to places in which people have dogs and cats and not farm animals, which means increasingly-suburban communities.

2. Democrats used to be generous with farm subsidies that made small-scale farming profitable. Those Democrats have been defeated or retired, only to be replaced by Republicans now generous with farm subsidies to entities such as the giant feedlot owned by... Koch Industries... which reciprocates by sponsoring the most reactionary politicians in American life. Koch industries owns Matador Cattle Company, and you can expect that it gets every federal subsidy possible. The subsidies now support fewer, but bigger landowners whose corporate farms rely heavily upon aliens as workers (who are classic proletarians in the Marxist sense but obviously cannot vote). Republicans are just as generous with farm subsidies with giant corporations that pay off Republican politicians with lavish expenditures on their electoral campaigns; obviously the people getting the subsidies that Republicans offer are not the small-scale farmers that FDR saved from destitution. 

3. Are Democrats going godless? Not as much as the Mammon-worshiping elites who, despite their lamentation of the decline of Christian faith among the proles and the middle class, are themselves Christian in name only. The optimum for our economic elites would be that they get away with their extreme egoism while the common man is content with vague and indefensible promises of Pie in the Sky When You Die. Such is a revival of a Gilded ethos. Democrats are much closer to Pope Francis on economics than they are to Donald Trump. 

But know well -- the children of those alien laborers on giant farms in the Midwest and South become citizens, and they cannot be expected to vote on behalf of the economic elites who exploit their parents so badly.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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