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Trump brought the Regeneracy, just not in the way he expected.
#1
Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:There are two ways to look at the effect of Donald Trump’s presidency on American democracy. One is that he is a menace to the republic: that his attacks on journalists, federal judges, and constitutional norms undermine the rule of law. The other is that he is the greatest thing to happen to America’s civic and political ecosystem in decades.

These views are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are causally related. The president’s attacks on established institutions have triggered a systemic immune response in the body politic, producing a surge in engagement among his opponents (and also his fans).

Since the early 1970s, the nation’s civic health—from membership in civic groups to attendance at public meetings to newspaper reading—has been in steady, severe decline. Economic inequality has fed political inequality in a viciously self-reinforcing loop of disenfranchisement and concentration of clout.

But now millions of people, once cynical bystanders, are participating earnestly. In mass marches and packed congressional town meetings, Americans have taken vocal stands for inclusion. At airports and campuses and street corners they have swarmed in defense of Muslim and undocumented neighbors. Membership in the ACLU and the League of Women Voters has swelled, as have subscriptions to leading newspapers.

The ranks of Trump’s supporters, meanwhile, are filled with first-time or first-time-in-a-long-time participants in politics. He has given voice to communities long disregarded by cosmopolitan political elites. Heartened by his election and his willingness in office to buck convention, they are now rallying to his defense.

Trump has also generated a boom in popular civic education. Across the country, people are creating political clubs, discussion circles, teach-ins. My organization, Citizen University, has launched regular gatherings called Civic Saturdays—a civic analogue to church—that have drawn overflow crowds. Indivisible, an insiders’ guide to pressuring Congress, has sparked intense local organizing and activism. Google searches for the Emoluments Clause, recusal rules, and judicial review have spiked. And iCivics.org, the civics video gaming platform created by former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, has seen a doubling of game-playing this year.

This civic surge, it’s important to note, crosses ideological lines. Many principled libertarians and conservatives, troubled by Trump’s recklessness, are now cheered by rising popular interest in the ideals of liberty and limits on government power.

The conservative Federalist Society is fielding new inquiries from left and right about its Article I Project, which aims to restore congressional primacy against an overreaching executive. Civic start-ups like Free the People are sparking interest among Millennials in a hip libertarianism. The right-leaning American Enterprise Institute held a symposium recently positing that Trump’s arrival is a “Sputnik moment” for civic education.

All this energy, now visible and palpable, had been gathering long before Trump became president and has extended well beyond the borders of the United States. From the Arab Spring to the Brexit, from the Tea Party to $15 Now and Black Lives Matter, we live in an age of bottom-up power: citizens self-organizing to challenge entrenched monopolies and orthodoxies. Trump’s election itself was evidence of this.

The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government.

Citizenship in a republic requires not just literacy in power but also a grounding in character. Power literacy means understanding systems of law, custom, and institutions—and acting with skill to move those systems. Civic character is more than personal virtue. It is about character in the collective—mutuality, reciprocity, respect, service, justice—and the prosocial ethics of being a member of the body.

Perhaps the most heartening part of today’s civic renewal is that people are exercising both power and character. They are practicing strategies of action while reckoning with questions of first principle. On campuses and public squares, they are debating the rights and responsibilities of dissent. On social media and in person, they are asking just what makes a leader legitimate and a representative truly representative.

Every time Trump acts or speaks against disfavored minority groups, they also are reminded that democracy alone—that is, a process of majority rule—is not enough. As Abraham Lincoln argued during his 1858 debates against Stephen Douglas about slavery, a democratic process is legitimate only when coupled with a moral sense. America today is beginning to rediscover its moral sense.

The president and his advisers will keep challenging moral and civic norms. Yet that is precisely why over the long term I am optimistic. As Americans have shown each other the last two months, the deepest source of this nation’s greatness and resilience is the decentralized way that citizens will reclaim their power. There are more civic antibodies here than viruses. We should thank Donald Trump for giving us the chance to prove it.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#2
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#3
People are beginning to recognize that something is wrong in the states of...

no, not Denmark!

The level of hatred and prejudice in the U.S. has increased since Donald Trump was elected president, 63 percent of American voters say in a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Another 32 percent say the level hasn't changed and 2 percent say it has decreased.

A total of 77 percent of voters say prejudice against minority groups in the U.S. is a "very serious" or "somewhat serious" problem, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds.

Concern about anti-Semitism has jumped in the last month: Looking specifically at prejudice against Jewish people, a total of 70 percent of American voters say it is a "very serious" or "somewhat serious" problem, up from 49 percent in an February 8 Quinnipiac University Poll.

American voters are divided on President Donald Trump's response to bomb threats against Jewish community centers and vandalism of Jewish cemeteries as 37 percent approve and 38 percent disapprove.

"Americans are concerned that the dark forces of prejudice and anti-Semitism are rearing their ugly heads. Voters are less than confident with the new administration's response," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

From March 2 - 6, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,323 voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 2.7 percentage points. Live interviewers call landlines and cell phones.

The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and the nation as a public service and for research.

Visit poll.qu.edu or http://www.facebook.com/quinnipiacpoll
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#4
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

It isn't existential. The simple fact of the matter is that the means of generating and reproducing news has changed. We've been through this before, back when the Printing Press was invented. It caused some chaos for a while but eventually Liberal Democracies arose and solved the problem. I imagine that eventually there will be a move to push for direct democracy now that we have near instantaneous global communication.

As for the Altantic article itself....Read it, concluded it was projection. It is what the so-called gate keepers want to believe. It isn't true though, don't let the fringe left fool you.

As for PBR's poll. Polls are not very accurate. How many claimed Trump had no chance yet who is writing the executive orders today? Polls without methodologies are meaningless.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#5
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote: And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

This is a 4T. Of course it will be existential.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#6
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

It isn't existential.  The simple fact of the matter is that the means of generating and reproducing news has changed.  We've been through this before, back when the Printing Press was invented.  It caused some chaos for a while but eventually Liberal Democracies arose and solved the problem.  I imagine that eventually there will be a move to push for direct democracy now that we have near instantaneous global communication.

Of course tyrants like Stalin and Saddam quickly got hold of the printing presses and ensured that the only people who got to use them (in the case of Saddam it was a serious crime to be in possession of even a typewriter without the express permission of the State) could tell exactly what the Leader wanted to be said.

Resistance toward the Personality Cult of Donald Trump has begun.

Quote:As for the Altantic article itself....Read it, concluded it was projection.  It is what the so-called gate keepers want to believe.  It isn't true though, don't let the fringe left fool you.

As for PBR's poll.  Polls are not very accurate.  How many claimed Trump had no chance yet who is writing the executive orders today?  Polls without methodologies are meaningless.

Donald Trump told millions of people what they wanted to hear and has since reneged upon what he let many believe about him. Our would-be dictator... and using Executive Orders to get around Congress and the Courts is dictatorial...has been taking stands likely to enrich people close to him at the expense of the rest of us.

Polls are imprecise (which is closer to reality than 'inaccurate'), and, worse, often obsolete. They can predict how some people will vote if they vote, based upon data from the time of the poll. They cannot predict who will vote, and they cannot predict trends that happen after the poll is taken. That support for anyone other than Donald Trump would significantly disappear is something that few objective people would believe until the Great Nightmare became obvious. The people who did believe it were the fervid Trump supporters.

Americans apparently are coming to believe that bigotry on ethnicity and religion are getting more severe and widespread. We are recognizing a problem that might have more radical causes (cultural polarization, flawed education) than the rashness of the current President.  The President having an approval rating in the low 40s at this stage in his term of office is without precedent.



Donald Trump's Presidential Job Approval Ratings -- Historical Comparisons 1938-2017

Average for U.S. presidents     53
Average for elected presidents' 1st quarter 63

Other presidents in March of first year
Barack Obama 62 Mar 2009

George W. Bush 58  Mar 2001

Bill Clinton 53 Mar 1993

George H.W. Bush 60 Mar 1989

Ronald Reagan 60 Mar 1981

Jimmy Carter 72 Mar 1977

Richard Nixon 64 Mar 1969

John Kennedy 73 Mar 1961

Dwight Eisenhower 74 Mar 1953

and where is the current President?

Most recent weekly average 43 Feb 27-Mar 5, 2017

http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presid...trump.aspx

Not even Ronald Reagan to convince Americans that they need higher prices, lower pay, environmental ruin, free rein to the most unscrupulous operators, and a shift of taxes from the rich to the non-rich. Reagan knew his limits; Donald Trump wants it all -- yesterday. Reagan wisely quit kicking Carter once Carter was no longer President. Trump can't quit kicking Obama.

...Disaster with a capital "D", and that rhymes with "T", and that stands for "Trump"!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#7
Two issues PBR.

1. Trump has siezed no one's presses. He's censored no one's internet. But who is calling for such censorship? Why the MSM and the so-called liberals.

2. Gallup has been very notorious for the past few years to over sample Democrats. Probably a result of calling mostly land lines which are owned by mostly old people--which are drum roll please Aging Hippie Boomers.

I'm truly sorry that your delusions are just that but the fact is Trump is doing great, in fact better than expected. Considering I expected nothing from him other than to not be HRC I wasn't disappointed.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#8
Thanks Alphabet Soup...I knew you couldn't make it a day without making the claim that everyone in the Administration is a Russian Agent.  I meant what I said in the other thread I'm concerned you may have untreated paranoid schizophrenia. 

As for Russia itself, I've been to Russia.  Nice country, much better with Putin in charge than that drunken lout Yeltsin.  That being said, I have no desire for America to be Russia--not that it could be even if it wanted to.  The American character and the Russian character are fundamentally different.  That being said they are not a hostile power unless the administration chooses to make them hostile.  They may have nukes but they also have an economy smaller than Italy's (which is no hegemonic power let me tell you).

That being said I do have to find it funny that Jullian Assange was the Left's darling when he was exposing Bush's wars but now he's a Russian Spy now that he's exposing corruption at the highest levels of the DNC. 

Just so you know, John Podesta's email password was "Password".  Eric-the-Ignoramous could probably hack his gmail account, and have you seen Eric's website?  It looks like something thrown together by a 14 y/o girl in 1995!
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#9
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

It isn't existential.  The simple fact of the matter is that the means of generating and reproducing news has changed.  We've been through this before, back when the Printing Press was invented.  It caused some chaos for a while but eventually Liberal Democracies arose and solved the problem.  I imagine that eventually there will be a move to push for direct democracy now that we have near instantaneous global communication.

It seems to me that the scale of government may very well go down.  In the second leg of the economic crisis we have been in since 2008 and the inability of the state to deal with it will definitely make state solutions much less credible.  In a very real sense the Soviet Union went down because people, including those running it, ceased to believe in it.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.   -- Ludwig von Mises
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#10
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for the Altantic article itself....Read it, concluded it was projection.  It is what the so-called gate keepers want to believe.  It isn't true though, don't let the fringe left fool you.

Right, only the finest Nazi shit from Breitbart is true, everything else is Fake News, or, in the original German, Lügenpresse. Rolleyes
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#11
If my suspicions are correct, there is going to be shockingly high Millennial turnout in 2018 and the Dems will take the House and a shit-load of state legislatures and governorships. Alt-Right lunatics like Kinser won't realize what hit them.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#12
(03-10-2017, 04:29 AM)Galen Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

It isn't existential.  The simple fact of the matter is that the means of generating and reproducing news has changed.  We've been through this before, back when the Printing Press was invented.  It caused some chaos for a while but eventually Liberal Democracies arose and solved the problem.  I imagine that eventually there will be a move to push for direct democracy now that we have near instantaneous global communication.

It seems to me that the scale of government may very well go down.  In the second leg of the economic crisis we have been in since 2008 and the inability of the state to deal with it will definitely make state solutions much less credible.  In a very real sense the Soviet Union went down because people, including those running it, ceased to believe in it.

Donald Trump gives us all much more cause than Barack Obama did to so distrust the government that we do everything possible to avoid what it doesn't do almost mechanically. I will need Medicare and Social Security.

Donald Trump is doing what Barack Obama had no desire to do -- causing the American people to ask what the government can do TO them. State solutions under Donald Trump begin with "first enrich my cronies". We can hold out for better -- and must.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#13
(03-10-2017, 09:13 AM)Odin Wrote: If my suspicions are correct, there is going to be shockingly high Millennial turnout in 2018 and the Dems will take the House and a shit-load of state legislatures and governorships. Alt-Right lunatics like Kinser won't realize what hit them.

What are these "suspicions" based on?  Other than wishful thinking, of course.  Wink

Let's take the obligatory bit where I make fun of you for being a progressive and you scream about the evils of the alt-right and fascism as read.  

Why do you think, in a non-Presidential election, where mostly Democratic Senate seats are at play, and Congressional districts drawn by Republicans in 2010, and the bias towards geographically dispersed (rural) populations that a territorial representation is going to have regardless of gerrymandering, do you expect such a wave election within the next 2 years?
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#14
(03-10-2017, 10:35 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(03-10-2017, 09:13 AM)Odin Wrote: If my suspicions are correct, there is going to be shockingly high Millennial turnout in 2018 and the Dems will take the House and a shit-load of state legislatures and governorships. Alt-Right lunatics like Kinser won't realize what hit them.

What are these "suspicions" based on?  Other than wishful thinking, of course.  Wink

Let's take the obligatory bit where I make fun of you for being a progressive and you scream about the evils of the alt-right and fascism as read.  

Why do you think, in a non-Presidential election, where mostly Democratic Senate seats are at play, and Congressional districts drawn by Republicans in 2010, and the bias towards geographically dispersed (rural) populations that a territorial representation is going to have regardless of gerrymandering, do you expect such a wave election within the next 2 years?

The "alternative right" really is fascist. You know... White Power! Sieg heil! Duce! Duce! Duce! The KKK forever! Fascism remains an evil cause, and the only reason to accept a certain fascism is that another is even worse... Schuschnigg over Hitler, which is like saying "Better Kadar than Pol Pot".


There has been a predictable pattern in every midterm election beginning in 2006: that when the President has approval ratings below 50%, his Party loses seats in the House If you want to believe that Donald Trump will turn his popularity around and have approval ratings in the high 50s by the autumn of 2018 then such is your prerogative. Maybe because I am a partisan Democrat I can't ever catch on to what a wonderful President we have and need a stint in some labor camp in which I learn how great the Leader is or die for my failure.

The polls show Americans getting accustomed to the reality of Donald Trump... but they remain very low. Out President is far better at creating ideological walls than in building pragmatic bridges. If the Republicans have an economic meltdown or an international calamity to deal with, then they would be hard-pressed to win the sorts of districts that they won 57-43 in 2016.

Yes, it is true that far more Democratic seats in the Senate are up than are Republican seats in the Senate, and the Republicans have only two in non-swing states. I have little cause top believe that Democrats can make Senate gains. But they can make big gains in State houses. There will be open gubernatorial seats in Michigan and Florida, and should Democrats win those two, Donald Trump will have no help in the form of voter suppression in those states. Gubernatorial races could be even more important than the Senate races for the upcoming general election of 2020.

The only wishful thinking on my part is that patterns that have been true under Barack Obama operate just as hard with Donald Trump., which is no more unreasonable than an Iowa corn farmer ordering  seed corn in February despite the raging blizzard that on its own terms suggests a return to the Ice Age.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#15
(03-10-2017, 08:50 AM)Odin Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for the Altantic article itself....Read it, concluded it was projection.  It is what the so-called gate keepers want to believe.  It isn't true though, don't let the fringe left fool you.

Right, only the finest Nazi shit from Breitbart is true, everything else is Fake News, or, in the original German, Lügenpresse. Rolleyes

This only shows evidence that you don't read Breitbart. The largest part of Breitbart is actually reporting on the Lugenpresse itself. If they weren't doing the Lugen part there would be nothing for Breitbart to report. Same is true for Alex Jones.

(03-10-2017, 09:13 AM)Odin Wrote: If my suspicions are correct, there is going to be shockingly high Millennial turnout in 2018 and the Dems will take the House and a shit-load of state legislatures and governorships. Alt-Right lunatics like Kinser won't realize what hit them.

Baring an economic collapse this is unlikely. Millenial patterns have been to ignore mid-terms, and add to that the fact that the House redistricted in 2010 under GOP majority and the majority of Senate seats up are held by Dems if there is a wave it will be for the GOP. In other words, Odin, you're basing this on wishful thinking rather than reality.

I on the other hand expect some of the most egregious Never Trump republicans to be replaced either with Trumpist Republicans or Democrats. See the thing is, if you look at the current triangulation of the White House he's not making his enemies with the Dems. They are irrelevant and quickly becoming a regional party--his fight is with the NeoCon wing of the GOP.

Part of making America great again is making the GOP grand again. Otherwise it's just old and just a party.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#16
(03-10-2017, 04:29 AM)Galen Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 06:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-08-2017, 09:11 PM)Odin Wrote: Great article I ran into in The Atlantic: Trump Has Caused a Civic Surge in America

Quote:... The surge will likely outlast his presidency. Americans today are rushing to make up for decades of atrophy and neglect in civic education and engagement. But as they do so it’s important to remember that citizenship is about more than know-how. It’s also about “know-why”—the moral purposes of self-government...

And this is the crux of the issue.  The populace is no longer mediated by a self-assigned coterie of gatekeepers, so the information comes directly to each of us without the benefit of analysis or even basic fact checking.  Some of us will take the time to fact check, and some from that group will go further and do the research to understand the information.  The rest will operate on emotion and instinct.  That may work eventually, but the process of getting there will certainly be messy or even dangerous.  Let's hope it isn't existential.

It isn't existential.  The simple fact of the matter is that the means of generating and reproducing news has changed.  We've been through this before, back when the Printing Press was invented.  It caused some chaos for a while but eventually Liberal Democracies arose and solved the problem.  I imagine that eventually there will be a move to push for direct democracy now that we have near instantaneous global communication.

It seems to me that the scale of government may very well go down.  In the second leg of the economic crisis we have been in since 2008 and the inability of the state to deal with it will definitely make state solutions much less credible.  In a very real sense the Soviet Union went down because people, including those running it, ceased to believe in it.

Quite likely.  From where I sit, and from whom I talk to (which is just about everyone in town--seriously you have no idea how many different people want to come into a donut shop for donuts and coffee) it seems that most people view the government, an Federal Government in particular as extremely ineffective at doing just about anything. 

Strangely it seems to me that Demitri Orlov was the one who first proposed that the US collapse would be very like the Soviet one.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#17
(03-09-2017, 10:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: 2. Gallup has been very notorious for the past few years to over sample Democrats. Probably a result of calling mostly land lines which are owned by mostly old people--which are drum roll please Aging Hippie Boomers.
Aren't old people more likely to vote GOP than younger people? It would follow that Gallup would be more likely to oversample Republicans.
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#18
(03-10-2017, 11:42 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The "alternative right" really is fascist. You know... White Power! Sieg heil! Duce! Duce! Duce! The KKK forever!

Actually this proves only that you've not listened to Richard Spencer or Jared Taylor amongst others.  They are certainly white identitarians but they are hardly fascists as they also make the case for less state power and not more.  Fascism has a meaning, it is an ideology and it has various forms that are universal.  Don't be confused by the absence of of swastikas and hoods--if you want American Fascism it will come wrapped in the disguise of anti-racism and social justice.


Quote:Fascism remains an evil cause, and the only reason to accept a certain fascism is that another is even worse... Schuschnigg over Hitler, which is like saying "Better Kadar than Pol Pot".

PBR let us suppose for a second you're right--you aren't of course but just for the sake of argument--if the entirety of the Right is fascist then you should be glad that Donald Trump is in charge and I'm not.

Quote:There has been a predictable pattern in every midterm election beginning in 2006: that when the President has approval ratings below 50%, his Party loses seats in the House If you want to believe that Donald Trump will turn his popularity around and have approval ratings in the high 50s by the autumn of 2018 then such is your prerogative. Maybe because I am a partisan Democrat I can't ever catch on to what a wonderful President we have and need a stint in some labor camp in which I learn how great the Leader is or die for my failure.

Firstly, during the election, and for the past several years the poll organizations have made it clear that they are over sampling Democrats--and likely partisan Democrats at that (we're not talking about people merely registered to the Dems, like myself though that is likely to change I have to renew my voter stuff before 2018).  They were doing this to the tune of 20% during the election, and HRC was still losing!

Secondly, because of this over sampling it makes the polls suspect.  That being said, I think it will matter if most people think the Prez is doing a good job or not.  And if he is not doing a good job, how does one get Congress to play ball with him.  Bear in mind as I said previously to Odin Daddy isn't picking fights with the Democrats (they've made themselves irrelevant) rather it is with the Globalist wing of the GOP.  

I expect that GOP losses in the House and Senate will be largely Nationalist GOP victories over Globalist GOP candidates.  That is to say, the war will be fought out in the primaries rather than the General.  

Quote:The polls show Americans getting accustomed to the reality of Donald Trump... but they remain very low. Out President is far better at creating ideological walls than in building pragmatic bridges. If the Republicans have an economic meltdown or an international calamity  to deal with, then they would be hard-pressed to win the sorts of districts that they won 57-43 in 2016.

Polls also showed HRC having a 98% chance of taking the electoral college, but she was trounced instead.  I think we can put polls to bed now.

Quote:Yes, it is true that far more Democratic seats in the Senate are up than are Republican seats in the Senate, and the Republicans have only two in non-swing states. I have little cause top believe that Democrats can make Senate gains. But they can make big gains in State houses. There will be open gubernatorial seats in Michigan and Florida, and should Democrats win those two, Donald Trump will have no help in the form of voter suppression in those states. Gubernatorial races could be even more important than the Senate races for the upcoming general election of 2020.

Unlikely.  Dem leadership nation wide is largely in their 60s and 70s.  The participation of younger people in the Democratic Party is waning as it dawns on them that "Free Shit" has to be paid for by someone, so even the Sanders wing is collapsing.  On top of that Conservatives are making strong inroads into culture--which has shifted from Hollyweird and the Tee-Vee to the internet.  Let me tell you, conservative youtubers outnumber liberal ones 5 to 1.  And this doesn't count defections.

The strong calls on college campuses to censor Milo, to censor Benjamin Shapiro (of all people--seriously he's a Neocon Jew!!, cause I know you have a hard on for Jews) and so on is a clear display of cultural weakness on the part of the Left.  Remember politics is down stream from culture.

Quote:The only wishful thinking on my part is that patterns that have been true under Barack Obama operate just as hard with Donald Trump., which is no more unreasonable than an Iowa corn farmer ordering  seed corn in February despite the raging blizzard that on its own terms suggests a return to the Ice Age.

It is good to see you understand nothing about farming, this despite living in a 'hick town'.  An Iowa corn farmer ordering seed in February is ordering it far too late--typically they do that in January and even December.  Seed companies have to process the order, pick the seeds, load them on to a truck and then it has to be hauled to the farmer--a process that can take months, and corn is typically planted in March or April, baring a late thaw or wet early spring.  Secondly a blizzard no more indicates an ice age than a really hot summer indicates global warming.  It is called weather, and sometimes it is random.

And speaking of global warming I find it intreguing that NASA has recently discovered that Venus, Mars and Jupiter are all having global warming issues too.  I bet it is caused by all the Martian coal fired power plants, and Venusian SUVs. Rolleyes
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#19
(03-10-2017, 10:35 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:
(03-10-2017, 09:13 AM)Odin Wrote: If my suspicions are correct, there is going to be shockingly high Millennial turnout in 2018 and the Dems will take the House and a shit-load of state legislatures and governorships. Alt-Right lunatics like Kinser won't realize what hit them.

What are these "suspicions" based on?  Other than wishful thinking, of course.  Wink

Let's take the obligatory bit where I make fun of you for being a progressive and you scream about the evils of the alt-right and fascism as read.  

Why do you think, in a non-Presidential election, where mostly Democratic Senate seats are at play, and Congressional districts drawn by Republicans in 2010, and the bias towards geographically dispersed (rural) populations that a territorial representation is going to have regardless of gerrymandering, do you expect such a wave election within the next 2 years?

Because, as this article shows, it's no longer business as usual. Trump is waking a lot of people up out of their apathy and that is only going to grow as time goes by. Additionally, the US is due for a recession and Trump and the GOP is sure to exacerbate any downturn, leading to the Rust Belt to turn on him.

Also, gerrymandering, ironically, makes the Republicans particularly vulnerable in a "throw the bums out" wave election.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#20
(03-10-2017, 12:47 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Actually this proves only that you've not listened to Richard Spencer or Jared Taylor amongst others.  They are certainly white identitarians but they are hardly fascists as they also make the case for less state power and not more.  Fascism has a meaning, it is an ideology and it has various forms that are universal.  Don't be confused by the absence of of swastikas and hoods--if you want American Fascism it will come wrapped in the disguise of anti-racism and social justice.

Spencer is literally a Neo-Nazi. The rest of your post is ignorant rambling.
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