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Science and Buddhism Agree: There is No 'You' There
#1
Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#2
Our own conscious experience "trumps" what anyone else says, whether from science or religion. Ms. Chandler is entitled to her opinion. And looking at the possibilities of coherence between science and Buddhism is a great idea. I would not assume that I or anyone else has all the answers about what the "you" or the "I" is.

I definitely experience myself as continuous. It is an uninterrupted flow, and so it stays the same and changes at the same time. That's what the philosopher Bergson said in Creative Evolution. From the point of view of our own minds, if you look at your consciousness, you will see there's no difference between persisting in the same state, and changing from one state to another. This from a philosopher who was influenced by the East and emphasized the flow of change as the primary reality compared to our thoughts.

Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967.

But I have come to the consideration or point of view that no separation does not mean non-existence of the self. Instead, I agree with scientists who say that the universe is holographic. That means each part reflects the whole. Buddhist art expressed this too, as did Islamic art. The Taj Tahal is one big exhibition of this principle.

So that's my best guess about who the I in me is; a hologram of the universe. It is similar to Leibniz' view and to Plato's and Whitehead's that we are one being ourselves, yet reflect the whole, the larger being.

There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all.

But, like the song by Blood Sweat and Tears from 1969 says, I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
https://youtu.be/8gxwutvlTw8
encompasses many points of view on dying!
Written by Laura Nyro, I see; great song-writer
https://youtu.be/TpvIoLmQUGU?list=PL6sAQ...KRUWGuvlOG
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#3
(05-14-2016, 10:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086

The article starts out with a straw man argument, that somehow it is believed that each of us is a never-changing individual entity.

Who ever said that?

Of course we change.  Every day, for our whole life.

"One can never step into the same river twice."
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
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#4
Thanks, Tara! Nothing new compared to what I already have read, though, I happen to own a book that is exactly on this topic. Big Grin
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#5
(05-15-2016, 12:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(05-14-2016, 10:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086

The article starts out with a straw man argument, that somehow it is believed that each of us is a never-changing individual entity.

Who ever said that?

Of course we change.  Every day, for our whole life.

"One can never step into the same river twice."

Pain meds have worn off so will respond before i have to take them again which will be soon no doubt. I never read it. I just shared it for them to view and i will read it when i am not having to be doped up to the eyeballs.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#6
(05-15-2016, 01:57 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 12:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(05-14-2016, 10:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086

The article starts out with a straw man argument, that somehow it is believed that each of us is a never-changing individual entity.

Who ever said that?

Of course we change.  Every day, for our whole life.

"One can never step into the same river twice."

Pain meds have worn off so will respond before i have to take them again which will be soon no doubt. I never read it. I just shared it for them to view and i will read it when i am not having to be doped up to the eyeballs.

Well, I guess you'll be a new you by then Smile
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#7
(05-15-2016, 12:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(05-14-2016, 10:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086

The article starts out with a straw man argument, that somehow it is believed that each of us is a never-changing individual entity.

Who ever said that?

Of course we change.  Every day, for our whole life.

"One can never step into the same river twice."

Pretty much this. Anyone who understands the human experience at all knows that our minds and bodies are constantly undergoing change. This even includes changes of core principles by which one lives their life..if whatever the principle is stops working one can either double down on it (which is usually self-destructive) or they can change it.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
#8
(05-15-2016, 04:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 01:57 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 12:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(05-14-2016, 10:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: Eric and Odin no doubt will be interested in this. (I have not read it yet. On strong pain meds atm for my tooth) but others will be interested in this no doubt. Eric and Odin came to mind as soon as i saw it.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/good-news-s...1463065086

The article starts out with a straw man argument, that somehow it is believed that each of us is a never-changing individual entity.

Who ever said that?

Of course we change.  Every day, for our whole life.

"One can never step into the same river twice."

Pain meds have worn off so will respond before i have to take them again which will be soon no doubt. I never read it. I just shared it for them to view and i will read it when i am not having to be doped up to the eyeballs.

Well, I guess you'll be a new you by then Smile

Haha well i will be a gummier new version of me by tomorrow!
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#9
(05-15-2016, 10:20 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha well i will be a gummier new version of me by tomorrow!

So long as you don't get a dry socket, which shouldn't be a problem if you follow your Dr.'s orders and don't smoke or vape you won't even miss it once the wound heals up. That should take about two or three weeks. You may experience phantom pain depending on how much bone came out with it.

I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only. I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff. Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
#10
(05-15-2016, 04:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Our own conscious experience "trumps" what anyone else says, whether from science or religion. Ms. Chandler is entitled to her opinion. And looking at the possibilities of coherence between science and Buddhism is a great idea. I would not assume that I or anyone else has all the answers about what the "you" or the "I" is.

I definitely experience myself as continuous. It is an uninterrupted flow, and so it stays the same and changes at the same time. That's what the philosopher Bergson said in Creative Evolution. From the point of view of our own minds, if you look at your consciousness, you will see there's no difference between persisting in the same state, and changing from one state to another. This from a philosopher who was influenced by the East and emphasized the flow of change as the primary reality compared to our thoughts.

Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967.

But I have come to the consideration or point of view that no separation does not mean non-existence of the self. Instead, I agree with scientists who say that the universe is holographic. That means each part reflects the whole. Buddhist art expressed this too, as did Islamic art. The Taj Tahal is one big exhibition of this principle.

So that's my best guess about who the I in me is; a hologram of the universe. It is similar to Leibniz' view and to Plato's and Whitehead's that we are one being ourselves, yet reflect the whole, the larger being.

There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all.

But, like the song by Blood Sweat and Tears from 1969 says, I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
https://youtu.be/8gxwutvlTw8
encompasses many points of view on dying!
Written by Laura Nyro, I see; great song-writer
https://youtu.be/TpvIoLmQUGU?list=PL6sAQ...KRUWGuvlOG

Ok sick of being drugged up and shoved a hot water bottle on my face for my last evening before tooth is removed so I can fully comprehend what i am reading and respond to it.


This quote from you "Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967." reminds me of the ideas within Wicca. Are your ideas from this belief and others like it? That all things living are spiritually connected and to truly connect with it and yourself, get back to nature. (something i adored and still do about that religion). I would like to hear more on this and maybe an example of looking deeper within ourselves. Although thinking of it I would consider the 4T idea and the generational archetypes theory a good example of broadening the idea of not just the world around us but our individual place in it too.

Not sure about the idea of everything being holographic ?????

"There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all."

No none of us has enough time nor in many cases the health to complete what we want to do. Unfortunately life does not go the way we would like it to. If we were to continue what we wanted we would not start life as a blank slate but continue on what we intended to finish. We would ideally remember our life goals. But we don't. As for continuing on in our afterlife or being reborn, i am not sure about that. I have heard stories of people who remember a past life. I am not a closed book to that, but remain skeptical. As to ghosts, some aware and some not....i have gone through too many experiences that i cannot rationalize to not believe. As for leaving a legacy for mankind, that could be just it. We help mankind along. They get to enjoy the progress made from the past now and enjoy the moment and then leave something behind for future generations to enjoy (or not sometimes!) We are in this scenario also more than just an individual. We are connected together as mankind passing on new technologies, ideals, and ideas for the now and for the future. What do they live for? They live for the now and for moving mankind forward with ideas and/or reproducing. What were the dinosaurs here for? Most of them died out or evolved into birds. What are they here for and what were they here for in the past? Mankind is not the only creature on the planet after all. We are supposed to live in harmony with one another and the planet. Most creatures on this planet serve a purpose as well as flora and of course the trees which sustain life on this planet. We know a bees purpose. We know the purpose of many animals and insects on this planet as well. But what is mankind's purpose? We seem to be very good at destroying the planet and raping it of its resources in order to cash in profit. It is not sustainable for the earth. We all know that I hope. Our purpose currently as a species seem to be the opposite of living in harmony with the earth compared to all the other creatures which serve a purpose on this planet. We are more like a virus species. A virus that i can only hope knows the cure. Ideally, our purpose as a species is to learn to live in harmony with the earth as well as being able to do this in a profitable way....i am not a total neo hippy....but that most likely will only happen when it is too late. I hope not though. But if we are to learn something from the 4T message, it is things change drastically only when they have no other option.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#11
(05-16-2016, 01:12 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only.  I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff.  Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".

I have had oral surgery with just local. I prefer to stay aware and would only use general anesthesia if required.
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
Reply
#12
(05-16-2016, 01:26 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 04:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Our own conscious experience "trumps" what anyone else says, whether from science or religion. Ms. Chandler is entitled to her opinion. And looking at the possibilities of coherence between science and Buddhism is a great idea. I would not assume that I or anyone else has all the answers about what the "you" or the "I" is.

I definitely experience myself as continuous. It is an uninterrupted flow, and so it stays the same and changes at the same time. That's what the philosopher Bergson said in Creative Evolution. From the point of view of our own minds, if you look at your consciousness, you will see there's no difference between persisting in the same state, and changing from one state to another. This from a philosopher who was influenced by the East and emphasized the flow of change as the primary reality compared to our thoughts.

Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967.

But I have come to the consideration or point of view that no separation does not mean non-existence of the self. Instead, I agree with scientists who say that the universe is holographic. That means each part reflects the whole. Buddhist art expressed this too, as did Islamic art. The Taj Tahal is one big exhibition of this principle.

So that's my best guess about who the I in me is; a hologram of the universe. It is similar to Leibniz' view and to Plato's and Whitehead's that we are one being ourselves, yet reflect the whole, the larger being.

There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all.

But, like the song by Blood Sweat and Tears from 1969 says, I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
https://youtu.be/8gxwutvlTw8
encompasses many points of view on dying!
Written by Laura Nyro, I see; great song-writer
https://youtu.be/TpvIoLmQUGU?list=PL6sAQ...KRUWGuvlOG

Ok sick of being drugged up and shoved a hot water bottle on my face for my last evening before tooth is removed so I can fully comprehend what i am reading and respond to it.


This quote from you "Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967." reminds me of the ideas within Wicca. Are your ideas from this belief and others like it? That all things living are spiritually connected and to truly connect with it and yourself, get back to nature. (something i adored and still do about that religion). I would like to hear more on this and maybe an example of looking deeper within ourselves. Although thinking of it I would consider the 4T idea and the generational archetypes theory a good example of broadening the idea of not just the world around us but our individual place in it too.

Not sure about the idea of everything being holographic ?????

"There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all."

No none of us has enough time nor in many cases the health to complete what we want to do. Unfortunately life does not go the way we would like it to. If we were to continue what we wanted we would not start life as a blank slate but continue on what we intended to finish. We would ideally remember our life goals. But we don't. As for continuing on in our afterlife or being reborn, i am not sure about that. I have heard stories of people who remember a past life. I am not a closed book to that, but remain skeptical. As to ghosts, some aware and some not....i have gone through too many experiences that i cannot rationalize to not believe. As for leaving a legacy for mankind, that could be just it. We help mankind along. They get to enjoy the progress made from the past now and enjoy the moment and then leave something behind for future generations to enjoy (or not sometimes!) We are in this scenario also more than just an individual. We are connected together as mankind passing on new technologies, ideals, and ideas for the now and for the future. What do they live for? They live for the now and for moving mankind forward with ideas and/or reproducing. What were the dinosaurs here for? Most of them died out or evolved into birds. What are they here for and what were they here for in the past? Mankind is not the only creature on the planet after all. We are supposed to live in harmony with one another and the planet. Most creatures on this planet serve a purpose as well as flora and of course the trees which sustain life on this planet. We know a bees purpose. We know the purpose of many animals and insects on this planet as well. But what is mankind's purpose? We seem to be very good at destroying the planet and raping it of its resources in order to cash in profit. It is not sustainable for the earth. We all know that I hope. Our purpose currently as a species seem to be the opposite of living in harmony with the earth compared to all the other creatures which serve a purpose on this planet. We are more like a virus species. A virus that i can only hope knows the cure. Ideally, our purpose as a species is to learn to live in harmony with the earth as well as being able to do this in a profitable way....i am not a total neo hippy....but that most likely will only happen when it is too late. I hope not though. But if we are to learn something from the 4T message, it is things change drastically only when they have no other option.

The quote button does not seem to work, so it's hard to reply to each section.

It's good to be skeptical; I am too. I like to keep my mind open, and am aware of lots of evidence for reincarnation and the afterlife, and it makes good sense to me. We all bring things with us into this world, and I am not convinced that physical genetics can explain it. Genetic codes are smaller than once thought and do not vary much from person to person. Sheldrake says they only are the means for the body to build proteins. They only transmit physical characteristics. If that's all that we are, maybe that's enough. But I think I am more than my physical make-up.

Wicca is one tradition I have participated in, but besides my own experience as a mystic (probably came in with that predilection), I latched on to Buddhism first (that's the subject of this thread). There's a lot of overlap in the ideas of those two traditions, but it's because they are both giving us glimpses into a common underlying truth, not one tradition influencing the other.

Holograms are a fascinating subject; worth learning about. It is quite similar to astrology, and the philosophy of holism. It is an alternative either to everything is just all one goo, or everything is just bits and pieces. 

In holography, or holism, or as above/so below microcosm/macrocosm (astrological or hermetic theory), everything is both a whole unto itself, and also part of a greater whole that it reflects on a smaller level. Another similar idea that has become famous in recent years is the fractile in mathematics, which exemplifies the same principle. Holography today is used in radio transmission, photography, theoretical physics, and probably other things. In biology, speaking of genetics, a similar phenomenon appears, since each cell has the same genetic code that is replicated by every cell in the entire body of a living organism. Again, as above, so below.

In Oriental art, as I mentioned, many temples are constructed on this principle, with "self-same" architectural elements replicated on smaller levels. Smaller within larger; as above, so below.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#13
(05-16-2016, 07:20 AM)radind Wrote:
(05-16-2016, 01:12 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only.  I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff.  Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".

I have had oral surgery with just local. I prefer to stay aware and would only use general anesthesia if required.

I am having the jab to numb the bugger and i hope that i will not feel it at all as it is very sensitive. I will as always be awake for it so fingers crossed i do not feel a thing. The extraction is today.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#14
Well if done right the most traumatic experience is having the dentist sit on your chest. Mine is a 5'6" vegetarian hindu guy from India, he had to really yank on my teeth to get them to come out. Could be worse though...could have been a female dentist. I'm kinda sexist when it comes to Drs. I don't like being worked on by women, makes me uncomfortable. Particularly GPs when I have to discuss male issues with the Dr.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
#15
(05-16-2016, 10:51 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(05-16-2016, 01:26 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 04:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Our own conscious experience "trumps" what anyone else says, whether from science or religion. Ms. Chandler is entitled to her opinion. And looking at the possibilities of coherence between science and Buddhism is a great idea. I would not assume that I or anyone else has all the answers about what the "you" or the "I" is.

I definitely experience myself as continuous. It is an uninterrupted flow, and so it stays the same and changes at the same time. That's what the philosopher Bergson said in Creative Evolution. From the point of view of our own minds, if you look at your consciousness, you will see there's no difference between persisting in the same state, and changing from one state to another. This from a philosopher who was influenced by the East and emphasized the flow of change as the primary reality compared to our thoughts.

Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967.

But I have come to the consideration or point of view that no separation does not mean non-existence of the self. Instead, I agree with scientists who say that the universe is holographic. That means each part reflects the whole. Buddhist art expressed this too, as did Islamic art. The Taj Tahal is one big exhibition of this principle.

So that's my best guess about who the I in me is; a hologram of the universe. It is similar to Leibniz' view and to Plato's and Whitehead's that we are one being ourselves, yet reflect the whole, the larger being.

There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all.

But, like the song by Blood Sweat and Tears from 1969 says, I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
https://youtu.be/8gxwutvlTw8
encompasses many points of view on dying!
Written by Laura Nyro, I see; great song-writer
https://youtu.be/TpvIoLmQUGU?list=PL6sAQ...KRUWGuvlOG

Ok sick of being drugged up and shoved a hot water bottle on my face for my last evening before tooth is removed so I can fully comprehend what i am reading and respond to it.


This quote from you "Our thought of who we are, is not who we are. When we look deeper, we experience a deeper level of ourselves and reality. We see that we are connected to the world we experience. There is no boundary, no separate self. I have experienced this since 1967." reminds me of the ideas within Wicca. Are your ideas from this belief and others like it? That all things living are spiritually connected and to truly connect with it and yourself, get back to nature. (something i adored and still do about that religion). I would like to hear more on this and maybe an example of looking deeper within ourselves. Although thinking of it I would consider the 4T idea and the generational archetypes theory a good example of broadening the idea of not just the world around us but our individual place in it too.

Not sure about the idea of everything being holographic ?????

"There is much evidence now for an individualized afterlife. I am not willing to ignore this evidence because it might confllict with what some other scientists or Buddhists or Christians think. And I continue to have the impression that just one life is futile. Even Beethoven shook his fist at the sky when he died and cried "I'm not finished!" None of us could ever be. Even the legacy he gave us was not enough. No-one's could ever be. We cannot live for our legacy; if we live for what we pass on to others when we die, what do THEY live for, then? For others? When does anyone ever get to live their own life, then? It's an infinite regress, going forward; and thus absurd. We don't live for ourselves alone, but for giving and sharing. But if we die, or if anyone does, we might as well never have lived at all."

No none of us has enough time nor in many cases the health to complete what we want to do. Unfortunately life does not go the way we would like it to. If we were to continue what we wanted we would not start life as a blank slate but continue on what we intended to finish. We would ideally remember our life goals. But we don't. As for continuing on in our afterlife or being reborn, i am not sure about that. I have heard stories of people who remember a past life. I am not a closed book to that, but remain skeptical. As to ghosts, some aware and some not....i have gone through too many experiences that i cannot rationalize to not believe. As for leaving a legacy for mankind, that could be just it. We help mankind along. They get to enjoy the progress made from the past now and enjoy the moment and then leave something behind for future generations to enjoy (or not sometimes!) We are in this scenario also more than just an individual. We are connected together as mankind passing on new technologies, ideals, and ideas for the now and for the future. What do they live for? They live for the now and for moving mankind forward with ideas and/or reproducing. What were the dinosaurs here for? Most of them died out or evolved into birds. What are they here for and what were they here for in the past? Mankind is not the only creature on the planet after all. We are supposed to live in harmony with one another and the planet. Most creatures on this planet serve a purpose as well as flora and of course the trees which sustain life on this planet. We know a bees purpose. We know the purpose of many animals and insects on this planet as well. But what is mankind's purpose? We seem to be very good at destroying the planet and raping it of its resources in order to cash in profit. It is not sustainable for the earth. We all know that I hope. Our purpose currently as a species seem to be the opposite of living in harmony with the earth compared to all the other creatures which serve a purpose on this planet. We are more like a virus species. A virus that i can only hope knows the cure. Ideally, our purpose as a species is to learn to live in harmony with the earth as well as being able to do this in a profitable way....i am not a total neo hippy....but that most likely will only happen when it is too late. I hope not though. But if we are to learn something from the 4T message, it is things change drastically only when they have no other option.

The quote button does not seem to work, so it's hard to reply to each section.

It's good to be skeptical; I am too. I like to keep my mind open, and am aware of lots of evidence for reincarnation and the afterlife, and it makes good sense to me. We all bring things with us into this world, and I am not convinced that physical genetics can explain it. Genetic codes are smaller than once thought and do not vary much from person to person. Sheldrake says they only are the means for the body to build proteins. They only transmit physical characteristics. If that's all that we are, maybe that's enough. But I think I am more than my physical make-up.

Wicca is one tradition I have participated in, but besides my own experience as a mystic (probably came in with that predilection), I latched on to Buddhism first (that's the subject of this thread). There's a lot of overlap in the ideas of those two traditions, but it's because they are both giving us glimpses into a common underlying truth, not one tradition influencing the other.

Holograms are a fascinating subject; worth learning about. It is quite similar to astrology, and the philosophy of holism. It is an alternative either to everything is just all one goo, or everything is just bits and pieces. 

In holography, or holism, or as above/so below microcosm/macrocosm (astrological or hermetic theory), everything is both a whole unto itself, and also part of a greater whole that it reflects on a smaller level. Another similar idea that has become famous in recent years is the fractile in mathematics, which exemplifies the same principle. Holography today is used in radio transmission, photography, theoretical physics, and probably other things. In biology, speaking of genetics, a similar phenomenon appears, since each cell has the same genetic code that is replicated by every cell in the entire body of a living organism. Again, as above, so below.

In Oriental art, as I mentioned, many temples are constructed on this principle, with "self-same" architectural elements replicated on smaller levels. Smaller within larger; as above, so below.

"Holography today is used in radio transmission, photography, theoretical physics, and probably other things. In biology, speaking of genetics, a similar phenomenon appears, since each cell has the same genetic code that is replicated by every cell in the entire body of a living organism. Again, as above, so below."

Ah ok that makes sense. Could say the same thing from where life originally began also with the big bang and the great bombardment also.  Started as one and scattered but formed to create the planets, suns etc. All from one origin though. I thought Wicca would have been something you would have participated in. I think it suits you. Not sure about Buddhism as I have not explored that one at all. But I have Wicca and still retain some ideas from it as it gives respect for all life. Something I think society is in desperate need of.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#16
(05-16-2016, 01:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Well if done right the most traumatic experience is having the dentist sit on your chest.  Mine is a 5'6" vegetarian hindu guy from India, he had to really yank on my teeth to get them to come out.  Could be worse though...could have been a female dentist.  I'm kinda sexist when it comes to Drs.  I don't like being worked on by women, makes me uncomfortable.  Particularly GPs when I have to discuss male issues with the Dr.

Never had that happen but i think id rather that than feel my very painful still infected tooth being pulled out. It is one of the back molars so a large tooth to be extracted. Nervous but want it out all the same. Oh well a few moments of possible agony or living with this pain....i will suck it up. I am notorious for being able to still feel what is going on if the tooth is sensitive despite the anesthetic. For me, as long as the person knows what they are doing i do not care if the person is a man or a woman. My female dentist just retired and i have an asian male dentist now. He seems to be really good so far. But will know for sure when he takes the tooth out.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#17
(05-16-2016, 01:12 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 10:20 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha well i will be a gummier new version of me by tomorrow!

So long as you don't get a dry socket, which shouldn't be a problem if you follow your Dr.'s orders and don't smoke or vape you won't even miss it once the wound heals up.  That should take about two or three weeks.  You may experience phantom pain depending on how much bone came out with it.

I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only.  I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff.  Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".

9 years ago I had to get oral surgery to get my impacted wisdom teeth removed. fortunately I got put under for it.
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#18
I am a fan of the Big Bang theory and think it is the best concept we have for how the universe developed. For me, the missing link that remains is how it all started( why is there something instead of nothing?).
It is intriguing that  Poe seems to be first one to write about such a concept. (In 1848, Edgar Allan Poe published ‘’Eureka")


Quote:http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/02/books/think-tank-what-did-poe-know-about-cosmology-nothing-but-he-was-right.html

What Did Poe Know About Cosmology? Nothing. But He Was Right.

… "The language is vague and convoluted, and some details are wrong (Poe had no concept of relativity, and it makes no sense today to speak of the universe exploding into ''previously vacant space''), but here, unmistakably, is a crude description of the Big Bang, a theory that didn't find mainstream approval until the 1960's. 
This wasn't Poe's only uncanny display of prescience. He also came up with the idea that the universe was expanding (and might eventually collapse), a notion that the Russian mathematician Alexander Friedmann ferreted out of Einstein's equations in 1922. Einstein initially pooh-poohed the idea, and it wasn’t widely accepted until the 1930’s, after Edwin Hubble gleaned some hard data from the velocities of far-flung galaxies.”…
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#19
(05-16-2016, 03:15 PM)Odin Wrote:
(05-16-2016, 01:12 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 10:20 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha well i will be a gummier new version of me by tomorrow!

So long as you don't get a dry socket, which shouldn't be a problem if you follow your Dr.'s orders and don't smoke or vape you won't even miss it once the wound heals up.  That should take about two or three weeks.  You may experience phantom pain depending on how much bone came out with it.

I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only.  I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff.  Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".

9 years ago I had to get oral surgery to get my impacted wisdom teeth removed. fortunately I got put under for it.

Never heard of that option here. So i will be awake for it. I was for them drilling through my jawbone when i had a tooth grow through it.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#20
(05-16-2016, 03:15 PM)Odin Wrote:
(05-16-2016, 01:12 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 10:20 PM)taramarie Wrote: Haha well i will be a gummier new version of me by tomorrow!

So long as you don't get a dry socket, which shouldn't be a problem if you follow your Dr.'s orders and don't smoke or vape you won't even miss it once the wound heals up.  That should take about two or three weeks.  You may experience phantom pain depending on how much bone came out with it.

I had to be strapped down for my extractions, I went with local only.  I have bad reactions to general anesthesia and will only risk it for potentially life threatening stuff.  Of course as I learned in boot and taught in boot "Pain is in your mind".

9 years ago I had to get oral surgery to get my impacted wisdom teeth removed. fortunately I got put under for it.

My new dentist is wonderful. He is super gentle and gave me sooooo much anesthetic. Loads. So it was fine.  He is the total opposite of my old dentist. So happy she has retired and i get this new dentist! Big Grin
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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