The Post-ObamaCare World: Reality Check For Hypocrites?

[Anthony '58]

The repeal of the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, is now a fait accompli - conceivably as soon as January 21st, via the "budget reconciliation" process.

But where do we go from here?

To prevent what literally would be a humanitarian crisis, state and local governments, and private and religious charities, will have to do the right thing - and the latter two are especially key: Will George Soros, Tom Steyer etc. pitch in, by making massive donations to organizations like this - and will evangelicals prove that they are not slavish disciples of Ayn Rand and do their part?  (You can bet that the Catholic Church, especially under Pope Francis, will take a strong stand on this).

If either fail, they will be exposed for all the world to see as the worst sort of hypocrites.

[Eric the Green]

It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

[Anthony '58]

But what about those who cannot afford the private sector? Then it's back to charity.

[Copperfield]

(11-10-2016, 06:57 PM)Anthony Wrote: But what about those who cannot afford the private sector?  Then it's back to charity.

I know right? I mean it's almost like people hadn't already figured out cheaper, voluntary solutions before government and business interests stepped in!

[Warren Dew]

(11-10-2016, 05:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

You mean, less expensive, fewer people covered.

[Warren Dew]

(11-10-2016, 09:22 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 06:57 PM)Anthony Wrote: But what about those who cannot afford the private sector?  Then it's back to charity.

I know right? I mean it's almost like people hadn't already figured out cheaper, voluntary solutions before government and business interests stepped in!

Thank you.  I've reposted to the Republican and Libertarian groups on G+.  Let's hope it comes to the attention of the Trump administration; they'll be looking to replace that sinkhole that is Obamacare.

[Galen]

(11-10-2016, 09:22 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 06:57 PM)Anthony Wrote: But what about those who cannot afford the private sector?  Then it's back to charity.

I know right? I mean it's almost like people hadn't already figured out cheaper, voluntary solutions before government and business interests stepped in!

Yes, but then what about all of those poor government bureaucrats that would be unable to make a living?

[pbrower2a]

The poor will simply be priced into the grave when something goes wrong.

[Eric the Green]

(11-10-2016, 11:21 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

You mean, less expensive, fewer people covered.

No, it will go back to the way it was before under the free market; much more expensive and fewer people covered. That's how it was; that's what the Affordable Care Act dealt with. Somewhat successfully, but not as well as real reform could have done.

[Eric the Green]

(11-11-2016, 03:42 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 09:22 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 06:57 PM)Anthony Wrote: But what about those who cannot afford the private sector?  Then it's back to charity.

I know right? I mean it's almost like people hadn't already figured out cheaper, voluntary solutions before government and business interests stepped in!

Yes, but then what about all of those poor government bureaucrats that would be unable to make a living?

If we had real reform, then what about all those insurance company executives and agents that would be unable to make a living.

[Galen]

(11-11-2016, 03:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:21 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

You mean, less expensive, fewer people covered.

No, it will go back to the way it was before under the free market; much more expensive and fewer people covered. That's how it was; that's what the Affordable Care Act dealt with. Somewhat successfully, but not as well as real reform could have done.

Have you not been paying attention to what has happened in the last eight years?  The cost increases have been much worse than they ever were prior.  Really, when has government ever reduced the cost of anything?

[pbrower2a]

(11-11-2016, 03:51 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 03:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:21 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

You mean, less expensive, fewer people covered.

No, it will go back to the way it was before under the free market; much more expensive and fewer people covered. That's how it was; that's what the Affordable Care Act dealt with. Somewhat successfully, but not as well as real reform could have done.

Have you not been paying attention to what has happened in the last eight years?  The cost increases have been much worse than they ever were prior.  Really, when has government ever reduced the cost of anything?

The government was prohibited from  negotiating any costs down. If there was an American price for a medication far higher than for a prescription medicine than the Canadian or Mexican cost, then the price that the manufacturers decided  upon would be the price charged. That's only part of the cost-loading norm in American medicine.
 
In case anybody has yet to notice, net immigration from Mexico is now negative. Many Mexicans, Mexican-Americans, and (I assume) people married to such if not being Mexicans or Mexicans or Mexican-Americans are finding retirement far less expensive in Mexico.  Of course if one can sell the family home in California for a fortune and can buy something far less expensive and of similar quality in a country compatible with one's cultural values, then selling the overpriced California home for its proceeds can allow one to live practically as an aristocrat in Mexico.

Mexico would be a very attractive country for me in political flight (the culture is not that exotic, as I have lived in California and Texas) except for the drug wars over the filthy money from the sale of illicit drugs to American addicts. Yes, Americans are making many Latin-American countries far less livable than they might otherwise be. D@mned American addicts, the ugliest Americans before Trump supporters became even more ominous!

[playwrite]

(11-10-2016, 02:18 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: The repeal of the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, is now a fait accompli - conceivably as soon as January 21st, via the "budget reconciliation" process.

But where do we go from here?

To prevent what literally would be a humanitarian crisis, state and local governments, and private and religious charities, will have to do the right thing - and the latter two are especially key: Will George Soros, Tom Steyer etc. pitch in, by making massive donations to organizations like this - and will evangelicals prove that they are not slavish disciples of Ayn Rand and do their part?  (You can bet that the Catholic Church, especially under Pope Francis, will take a strong stand on this).

If either fail, they will be exposed for all the world to see as the worst sort of hypocrites.

With repeal they will implement a system where insurance companies are no longer state by state. They've been harping on "allow competition across state lines." OK, now they've got the ball. Let's see what's in the playbook, if anything.

Have you ever wondered why credit card interest rates remain in double digits even when all other credit tanks -

[img][/img]

It's because the banks have all headquartered their operations in Wilmington, Delaware, where former Governor Pierre DuPont purposely enticed them with relaxed regulations.

The only people who think that this will not happen with the insurance companies are Libertarians.

I  have literally made half my wealth by fading the Libertarian morons that have Zero Hedge as their updated Ayn Rand guru.  Taking their lunch money, over and over again, is entertaining.  Not so much fun, however, when their stupidity actually gets taken seriously within the government and the whole economy eventually takes the big hit from their stupidity (see the '00-00s).

Not sure which state will win the race to the bottom, but it will be a pretty big story on the business news channels.  It will be pitch as a big win for whatever state pulls it off; the rest of the country will be pretty F'd, however.  Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.  I also expect the Libertarian morons to believe that is a good thing, just like unfettered bank subprime lending in the 00-00s.  I expect to substantially grow my personal wealth once again off these morons.

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 03:51 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 03:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:21 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 05:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's back to relying on the private sector. In other words, more expensive, fewer people covered.

You mean, less expensive, fewer people covered.

No, it will go back to the way it was before under the free market; much more expensive and fewer people covered. That's how it was; that's what the Affordable Care Act dealt with. Somewhat successfully, but not as well as real reform could have done.

Have you not been paying attention to what has happened in the last eight years?  The cost increases have been much worse than they ever were prior.  Really, when has government ever reduced the cost of anything?

We, the Blues, like to pay attention to facts not the gut feelings you Reds derive from your mythical world.  So this is not for you, don't strain your brain, it will just inflame that big fat amygdala of yours and set you into some rage down in your mom's basement - she doesn't like that.

For the rest of us, its important to hold onto the facts during these times; these facts will eventually emerge to bite the Reds in their big fat dumb asses.

[img][/img]

https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/201...yre-lower/

[Warren Dew]

(11-11-2016, 09:41 AM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 02:18 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: The repeal of the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, is now a fait accompli - conceivably as soon as January 21st, via the "budget reconciliation" process.

But where do we go from here?

To prevent what literally would be a humanitarian crisis, state and local governments, and private and religious charities, will have to do the right thing - and the latter two are especially key: Will George Soros, Tom Steyer etc. pitch in, by making massive donations to organizations like this - and will evangelicals prove that they are not slavish disciples of Ayn Rand and do their part?  (You can bet that the Catholic Church, especially under Pope Francis, will take a strong stand on this).

If either fail, they will be exposed for all the world to see as the worst sort of hypocrites.

With repeal they will implement a system where insurance companies are no longer state by state. They've been harping on "allow competition across state lines." OK, now they've got the ball. Let's see what's in the playbook, if anything.

Have you ever wondered why credit card interest rates remain in double digits even when all other credit tanks -

[img][/img]

It's because the banks have all headquartered their operations in Wilmington, Delaware, where former Governor Pierre DuPont purposely enticed them with relaxed regulations.

The only people who think that this will not happen with the insurance companies are Libertarians.

I  have literally made half my wealth by fading the Libertarian morons that have Zero Hedge as their updated Ayn Rand guru.  Taking their lunch money, over and over again, is entertaining.  Not so much fun, however, when their stupidity actually gets taken seriously within the government and the whole economy eventually takes the big hit from their stupidity (see the '00-00s).

Not sure which state will win the race to the bottom, but it will be a pretty big story on the business news channels.  It will be pitch as a big win for whatever state pulls it off; the rest of the country will be pretty F'd, however.  Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.  I also expect the Libertarian morons to believe that is a good thing, just like unfettered bank subprime lending in the 00-00s.  I expect to substantially grow my personal wealth once again off these morons.

Actually the increase in credit card margins is due to capital restrictions implemented after the crash, and the fact that those capital restrictions limit the amount of lending banks can do.  The resulting shortage of money to be lent out resulted in excessive interest rates.

The gap is gradually being filled by other alternatives offered by companies in a better capital position, but it's a slow process.

[noway2]

(11-11-2016, 09:41 AM)playwrite Wrote: Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.

I used to be neutral on Obamacare.  I agreed with the principle that getting people out of critical and emergency care and into primary care made a lot of sense in terms of reducing the total system costs.  The story we're being fed is that the insurers are losing money on all these new enrollees that are sick and receiving care.  I don't buy it. If someone is poor enough that they have to have their premium subsidized there is no way that they can be affording the $5K plus deductible on their care.  It just doesn't make sense.

I also know that I personally have had my costs skyrocket for my self employed spouse who at the onset of Obamacare was able to get coverage for less money than it would cost me to put her on my employers plan.  This year that is no longer the case.  Still, it is costing me $6K per year plus another $6K per year that is hidden by my paycheck to have a program that should I need it will cost me another $7.5K to cover the deductible and I am paying so that someone else who chose not to go to school and get a degree like I did that pays too much to qualify for any sort of subsidy can get it on the cheap.  It really pisses me off and I find myself not caring about the whining of others because I'm sick of paying for it.  It is nonsense like Obamacare, that Clinton swore to double down on, that caused me to vote for Trump.

[Marypoza]

Scuse me if this sounds lame, but what is so damn difficult about simply lowering the medicare age to 0?

[noway2]

(11-11-2016, 11:07 AM)Marypoza Wrote: Scuse me if this sounds lame, but what is so damn difficult about simply lowering the medicare age to 0?

On a similar note, I have often asked and never gotten a valid response to the question of: "why is everyone so focused on the answer to health care being insurance?"

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 10:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 09:41 AM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 02:18 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: The repeal of the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, is now a fait accompli - conceivably as soon as January 21st, via the "budget reconciliation" process.

But where do we go from here?

To prevent what literally would be a humanitarian crisis, state and local governments, and private and religious charities, will have to do the right thing - and the latter two are especially key: Will George Soros, Tom Steyer etc. pitch in, by making massive donations to organizations like this - and will evangelicals prove that they are not slavish disciples of Ayn Rand and do their part?  (You can bet that the Catholic Church, especially under Pope Francis, will take a strong stand on this).

If either fail, they will be exposed for all the world to see as the worst sort of hypocrites.

With repeal they will implement a system where insurance companies are no longer state by state. They've been harping on "allow competition across state lines." OK, now they've got the ball. Let's see what's in the playbook, if anything.

Have you ever wondered why credit card interest rates remain in double digits even when all other credit tanks -

[img][/img]

It's because the banks have all headquartered their operations in Wilmington, Delaware, where former Governor Pierre DuPont purposely enticed them with relaxed regulations.

The only people who think that this will not happen with the insurance companies are Libertarians.

I  have literally made half my wealth by fading the Libertarian morons that have Zero Hedge as their updated Ayn Rand guru.  Taking their lunch money, over and over again, is entertaining.  Not so much fun, however, when their stupidity actually gets taken seriously within the government and the whole economy eventually takes the big hit from their stupidity (see the '00-00s).

Not sure which state will win the race to the bottom, but it will be a pretty big story on the business news channels.  It will be pitch as a big win for whatever state pulls it off; the rest of the country will be pretty F'd, however.  Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.  I also expect the Libertarian morons to believe that is a good thing, just like unfettered bank subprime lending in the 00-00s.  I expect to substantially grow my personal wealth once again off these morons.

Actually the increase in credit card margins is due to capital restrictions implemented after the crash, and the fact that those capital restrictions limit the amount of lending banks can do.  The resulting shortage of money to be lent out resulted in excessive interest rates.

The gap is gradually being filled by other alternatives offered by companies in a better capital position, but it's a slow process.

Ah, I realize its hard to get through those over-stimulated amygdala you all seem to posses, and really, I've grown tired of it, and try to just take pleasure knowing how much of your lunch money I'm taking from you all in the markets.

But, for old time sakes, try taking a look at the graph again and see were you can pinpoint "the fact" that while credit card rates changed but slightly down while all other securities went way down, the expanding margin is instead based on horseshit (or, is it magic ponies again?).

I am always amazed how you guys can look at a house on fire and blame the firemen or car wreck and blame the tow truck driver.  It's weird, but it has been highly profitable to fade you. I guess I should just be thankful.

[playwrite]

(11-11-2016, 10:52 AM)noway2 Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 09:41 AM)playwrite Wrote: Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.

I used to be neutral on Obamacare.  I agreed with the principle that getting people out of critical and emergency care and into primary care made a lot of sense in terms of reducing the total system costs.  The story we're being fed is that the insurers are losing money on all these new enrollees that are sick and receiving care.  I don't buy it. If someone is poor enough that they have to have their premium subsidized there is no way that they can be affording the $5K plus deductible on their care.  It just doesn't make sense.

I also know that I personally have had my costs skyrocket for my self employed spouse who at the onset of Obamacare was able to get coverage for less money than it would cost me to put her on my employers plan.  This year that is no longer the case.  Still, it is costing me $6K per year plus another $6K per year that is hidden by my paycheck to have a program that should I need it will cost me another $7.5K to cover the deductible and I am paying so that someone else who chose not to go to school and get a degree like I did that pays too much to qualify for any sort of subsidy can get it on the cheap.  It really pisses me off and I find myself not caring about the whining of others because I'm sick of paying for it.  It is nonsense like Obamacare, that Clinton swore to double down on, that caused me to vote for Trump.

It sounds like your spouse is back on your employer-based plan and your complaint is with that plan, and to some extent that Obamacare didn't provide you an alternative.

I can't argue with that, and I empathize. 

Obamacare was not designed to help people in your situation.  It was designed to be the minimum that the Dems thought they could get just a minimum few GOP Congressional Critters to support.  And even that failed.  It was a mistake that 2008 Obama made in believing the GOP cared more about this country than just political power.  It was a mistake that 2012 Obama would never have made.

You can blame 2008 Obama, but compared to the shitstorm that President Pussygrabber is about to unleash upon you, if might be more productive to go spit in a hurricane.  Best of luck with your coming just-dessert, Trumpster.