Democrats organize to fight back

[Odin]

(12-25-2016, 07:03 PM)TnT Wrote: Democrats organizing.  Maybe an oxymoron?

Listening to a "liberal" talk radio show the other day.  A "liberal" advocate telling the host that the most important thing in the world for us all to be working on was HER cause, that of filtering trace chemicals out of the U.S. drinking water.

That's the trouble with us liberals.  We often have no sense of priority.  "Our" cause is always the most important of all, and we get pissed if all the other "liberals" don't agree.

Conservatives, on the other hand agree on a few key principles:  1. Authoritarianism is the best structure.  2. "White" men should run everything.  3. Money is power.  It focuses their activities.

Yep, this is something I've known since the protests against the Iraq War. Occupy Wall Street failed for the same reason, everyone thinks their pet issue is the most important thing in the world and if you disagree with them you are a shitlord. I blame the upper-middle class takeover of the Left during the 2T for this, the upper-middle class tends to be obsessed with the latest vapid lifestyle cause of the month. Eric's "enlightened" idiots in San Francisco are exactly the problem.

[Eric the Green]

(12-26-2016, 09:51 AM)Odin Wrote:

(12-25-2016, 07:03 PM)TnT Wrote: Democrats organizing.  Maybe an oxymoron?

Listening to a "liberal" talk radio show the other day.  A "liberal" advocate telling the host that the most important thing in the world for us all to be working on was HER cause, that of filtering trace chemicals out of the U.S. drinking water.

That's the trouble with us liberals.  We often have no sense of priority.  "Our" cause is always the most important of all, and we get pissed if all the other "liberals" don't agree.

Conservatives, on the other hand agree on a few key principles:  1. Authoritarianism is the best structure.  2. "White" men should run everything.  3. Money is power.  It focuses their activities.

Yep, this is something I've known since the protests against the Iraq War. Occupy Wall Street failed for the same reason, everyone thinks their pet issue is the most important thing in the world and if you disagree with them you are a shitlord. I blame the upper-middle class takeover of the Left during the 2T for this, the upper-middle class tends to be obsessed with the latest vapid lifestyle cause of the month. Eric's "enlightened" idiots in San Francisco are exactly the problem.

No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

[Cynic Hero '86]

Eric how are the hippie types not the problem. Because of them warrior leaders like Assad and Milosevic are being persecuted and restrained by globalist tyranny.

[Eric the Green]

I wish Assad were persecuted and eliminated. Fortunately, Milosevic was. Folks like them are the problem. People who support them and tyrants like them are the problem.

[Eric the Green]

[TnT]

"Jane is ready to fight racism and misogyny and homophobia every step of the way."

What the fuck does that mean, Eric? "Fight?" What, carry a fucking sign down at the city circle? What does the sign say?

"If this doesn't terrify you, you're a fool."

Oh, good. I know, I'll sit around and stare at television and be terrified.

This is exaclty the kind of crap that bothers me about being a liberal. Useless, misdirected drivel, wasted energy, emotion-marinated non-action.

Oh, and by the way ... a stick figure. Perfect.

[Eric the Green]

(12-26-2016, 04:59 PM)TnT Wrote: "Jane is ready to fight racism and misogyny and homophobia every step of the way."

What the fuck does that mean, Eric?  "Fight?"  What, carry a fucking sign down at the city circle?  What does the sign say?

"If this doesn't terrify you, you're a fool."  

Oh, good.  I know, I'll sit around and stare at television and be terrified.

This is exaclty the kind of crap that bothers me about being a liberal.  Useless, misdirected drivel, wasted energy, emotion-marinated non-action.

Oh, and by the way ... a stick figure.  Perfect.

Not drivel. It's a first step. Then, we organize. Myself, I'm not sure yet what to do. Something will come along.

Don't knock our allies. Join them and fight together. Ask them to join in too. Maybe, something will happen then.

I am predicting it, FWIW. If not now, then 4 years or so from now.

[Ragnarök_62]

(12-26-2016, 03:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

1. For which race(s) as Jane defines them are to be in her included group?
2. It appears that Jane is economic class illiterate. Rags sees nothing in common with Jane.
3. Anger is a negative emotion.  Therefore those who seek it set off high blood pressure, misery, insomnia, etc.

[Eric the Green]

I'm with Jane. See Jane run. She Jane speak. Be like Jane; speak!

[Ragnarök_62]

Eric the GreenI Wrote:I'm with Jane. See Jane run. She Jane speak. Be like Jane; speak!

See Spot run. See Spot bark. Yeah, Dick and Jane are grade school material.

[Eric the Green]

(12-26-2016, 08:38 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Eric the Green Wrote:I'm with Jane. See Jane run. She Jane speak. Be like Jane; speak!

See Spot run. See Spot bark. Yeah, Dick and Jane are grade school material.

Which is far superior to Trump's level, and the level of his voters.

[Eric the Green]

Lawrence O'Donnell with Filmmaker and Political Activist Michael Moore has a POLITICAL wishlist of things that he wants concerned citizens to do with regard to the Trump and the GOP. He encourages democrats to be more vocal and to visit their lawmakers IN PERSON while they are at home on their Christmas Break. He's calling on the Democrats to appoint new and more, more aggressive and likeable leadership. Moore wants Dems to form "Rapid Response Teams" that will activate and get the protest out on Facebook and other venues whenever the GOP makes a stupid move. Moore in the spirit of Christmas is kind enough to sing a Holiday tune.

[Mikebert]

(12-22-2016, 02:59 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: A significant percentage perhaps a majority of white working people don't give a rat's ass about transgender bathrooms, CO2 footprints, welfare / AFDC, geopolitics, etc. These are the province of more wealthy whites. As the nature of the typical wealthy white shifted from some sort of "Thurston Howell III" stereotype to people like those who attend Democratic political fundraising dinners on Billionaires' Row, the Democrats re-tuned their platforms accordingly. The problem with this is the typical white working stiff in Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Wheeling, etc, was essentially left behind by this shift.

If this is true why didn't they respond to Sanders? I was a Sanders supporter. I've always voted for the Sanders-type Democrats in the primaries who never win.  Sanders got the votes of progressives just like Jackson in '88.  He did not get the votes of the while working class--Trump did.

[Odin]

(12-27-2016, 05:12 PM)Mikebert Wrote:

(12-22-2016, 02:59 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: A significant percentage perhaps a majority of white working people don't give a rat's ass about transgender bathrooms, CO2 footprints, welfare / AFDC, geopolitics, etc. These are the province of more wealthy whites. As the nature of the typical wealthy white shifted from some sort of "Thurston Howell III" stereotype to people like those who attend Democratic political fundraising dinners on Billionaires' Row, the Democrats re-tuned their platforms accordingly. The problem with this is the typical white working stiff in Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Wheeling, etc, was essentially left behind by this shift.

If this is true why didn't they respond to Sanders? I was a Sanders supporter. I've always voted for the Sanders-type Democrats in the primaries who never win.  Sanders got the votes of progressives just like Jackson in '88.  He did not get the votes of the while working class--Trump did.

A lot of the white working class switched back in the 90s and now things have become too polarized for a lot of people to even think of switching back to the Dems, especially since a lot of these people get their news from right-wing sources like Fox and Rush that likely demonize Sanders as a Communist, anyway.

[David Horn]

(12-25-2016, 07:03 PM)TnT Wrote: Democrats organizing.  Maybe an oxymoron?

Listening to a "liberal" talk radio show the other day.  A "liberal" advocate telling the host that the most important thing in the world for us all to be working on was HER cause, that of filtering trace chemicals out of the U.S. drinking water.

That's the trouble with us liberals.  We often have no sense of priority.  "Our" cause is always the most important of all, and we get pissed if all the other "liberals" don't agree.

Conservatives, on the other hand agree on a few key principles:  1. Authoritarianism is the best structure.  2. "White" men should run everything.  3. Money is power.  It focuses their activities.

Great post, and all too true.  It's the primary reason I am not and have never been a Democrat.  Sad.

[David Horn]

(12-26-2016, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

No Eric, the UC/UMC-wing of the Democratic Party is the entire problem.  You can't win general elections by just being sensitive to LGBTGA rights, and by opposing every energy project, no matter how benign.  Worse, all these issue groups reuse to support one another, so no one wins.

[David Horn]

(12-26-2016, 03:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

Jane is part of the problem.  Racism, misogyny and homophobia are symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself.  The real problem is a false focus on the outliers.  When you put 10% of your effort in solving a problem that affects 0.1% of the population, the 99.9% notice.

[David Horn]

(12-26-2016, 05:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 04:59 PM)TnT Wrote: "Jane is ready to fight racism and misogyny and homophobia every step of the way."

What the fuck does that mean, Eric?  "Fight?"  What, carry a fucking sign down at the city circle?  What does the sign say?

"If this doesn't terrify you, you're a fool."  

Oh, good.  I know, I'll sit around and stare at television and be terrified.

This is exaclty the kind of crap that bothers me about being a liberal.  Useless, misdirected drivel, wasted energy, emotion-marinated non-action.

Oh, and by the way ... a stick figure.  Perfect.

Not drivel. It's a first step. Then, we organize. Myself, I'm not sure yet what to do. Something will come along.

Don't knock our allies. Join them and fight together. Ask them to join in too. Maybe, something will happen then.

I am predicting it, FWIW. If not now, then 4 years or so from now.

Really?  These are issues that affect very few, and though they may be important, they will never get resolved by spending all your time on them.  It's the same mistake BHO made when he chose healthcare as priority #1.  If he had focused on employment and thrown everything at getting people back to work, the political capital he would have acquired would have made a real healthcare solution possible ... not the convoluted mess we actually got. 

Attack problems by Pareto Chart.  Hit the big problems first!  Keep the focus on the biggest 1 or 2 problems, solve one, add the next item to your to-do list.

[David Horn]

(12-27-2016, 05:12 PM)Mikebert Wrote: I was a Sanders supporter. I've always voted for the Sanders-type Democrats in the primaries who never win.  Sanders got the votes of progressives just like Jackson in '88.  He did not get the votes of the while working class--Trump did.

Actually, there was substantial crossover between the Sanders and Trump factions, though the older working class crowd favored Trump more and the younger more educated preferred Sanders.  Both Trump and Sanders were change candidates.  It's hard to know how that would have played in the General Election, but it certainly couldn't have been worse.

[Eric the Green]

(12-28-2016, 03:18 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 05:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 04:59 PM)TnT Wrote: "Jane is ready to fight racism and misogyny and homophobia every step of the way."

What the fuck does that mean, Eric?  "Fight?"  What, carry a fucking sign down at the city circle?  What does the sign say?

"If this doesn't terrify you, you're a fool."  

Oh, good.  I know, I'll sit around and stare at television and be terrified.

This is exaclty the kind of crap that bothers me about being a liberal.  Useless, misdirected drivel, wasted energy, emotion-marinated non-action.

Oh, and by the way ... a stick figure.  Perfect.

Not drivel. It's a first step. Then, we organize. Myself, I'm not sure yet what to do. Something will come along.

Don't knock our allies. Join them and fight together. Ask them to join in too. Maybe, something will happen then.

I am predicting it, FWIW. If not now, then 4 years or so from now.

Really?  These are issues that affect very few, and though they may be important, they will never get resolved by spending all your time on them.  It's the same mistake BHO made when he chose healthcare as priority #1.  If he had focused on employment and thrown everything at getting people back to work, the political capital he would have acquired would have made a real healthcare solution possible ... not the convoluted mess we actually got. 

Attack problems by Pareto Chart.  Hit the big problems first!  Keep the focus on the biggest 1 or 2 problems, solve one, add the next item to your to-do list.

I don't disagree; but I suspect with Trump we have all the problems thrown at us at once. We have been driven back into the age of racism, misogyny, the whole works of social injustice. So politically, it won't work to ditch the ethnic/gender issues and embrace only the economic issues, or climate issues; they are all part and parcel of the same issue. As for what to do first if a progressive gets back into office, it will take some good strategy by the next president, if (s)he wins. I don't disagree that "it's the economy, stupid." That will probably be job 1, especially since a major recession is likely now in the last 2 years of Drumpf's term.

And you may remember that it was Obama's first priority too; he promised a stimulus as his first act, and he delivered. It was not enough, and was later blocked and ended by Republicans; but to some extent, it worked. The great recession ended. But the lesson is, bigger; and the people need to keep the congress Democratic, and that means voting in midterms.