Democrats organize to fight back

[Eric the Green]

(12-28-2016, 03:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 03:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

Jane is part of the problem.  Racism, misogyny and homophobia are symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself.  The real problem is a false focus on the outliers.  When you put 10% of your effort in solving a problem that affects 0.1% of the population, the 99.9% notice.

Not 0.1%, but more like 80%. Women, blacks, hispanics, gays, etc. White men are the outliers. The whites are going to have to suck up. Instead of rebelling against the inevitable and rising diversity, they will have to join it and rebel against the real 1%, the owners of this country who are the enemy of all of us. Democrats must work harder to get their economic message out to whites and in the Rust Belt. They will have to keep their diversity focus too.

Hillary had the right message and focus. She was just not the best messenger, compared to the showman. P.T. Barnum knew that there's a sucker born every minute, and P.T. Drumpf knew it too. So, what the Demos need is a better showman! That's what Americans like in their candidates. Seth Meyers? Michael Moore?

White men can continue to be "a pawn in their game," as Bob Dylan described them 55 years ago. Or they can join the opposing team and make their lives better. And I agree, the diverse and female folks will have to join with the white working class in this movement, and not only be concerned with their own issues. It's called alliance. That's how wars and revolutions are won. It's how elections are won. We need to remember that.

Bernie is still the leader. Do as he does. Speak up for the working class, and at the same time say that bigotry is not acceptable and will be resisted every step of the way.

[Odin]

(12-28-2016, 03:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

No Eric, the UC/UMC-wing of the Democratic Party is the entire problem.  You can't win general elections by just being sensitive to LGBTGA rights, and by opposing every energy project, no matter how benign.  Worse, all these issue groups reuse to support one another, so no one wins.

Here in Minnesota we are having issues with environmentalist opposition to copper mining causing working class blue collar folks in the northern part of the state to get upset at the Dems.

[Eric the Green]

(12-28-2016, 03:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

No Eric, the UC/UMC-wing of the Democratic Party is the entire problem.  You can't win general elections by just being sensitive to LGBTGA rights, and by opposing every energy project, no matter how benign.  Worse, all these issue groups reuse to support one another, so no one wins.

I don't know what UC/UMC wing refers too, but in any case, the social justice and the economic concerns are fused together, and all these issues and those concerned about them must be seen together, if the progressive side is to win. I don't know if they will, but I am predicting that they will by the 2020s, FWIW.

The pipelines must be opposed; they are not benign. Nuclear energy must be safe, with recycling of waste, or it's not benign either. We can't do without energy, though, so all sides must be allies in the general fight against the owners of our country and their neo-liberal philosophy. That is the common enemy to all these groups within the progressive movement and the Democrats. It must be defeated so that alternative energy can be supported.

This common enemy is summed up in the slogan, "I oppose giving my tax money to X-groups (blacks, women, hispanics, lazy people) who don't work." That meme is out of date in the age of outsourcing and automation, wage/salary gross inequality, and refusal to use government to tackle any issue no matter how threatening to the environment and the people. "The government is not the solution; government is the problem." THAT'S the meme, the slogan, that must be replaced. It's "I refuse to allow the government to steal my money and give it to lazy people." It's the common enemy to ALL the groups and issues of concern among progressives, liberals, Democrats, etc. We must focus on ending neo-liberalism, or we must die.

Look at that picture of Reagan and Thatcher at the White House, and their look and attitude. That's the common enemy. Trump is their new face.

[Eric the Green]

From boldprogressives.org:

Ever since Trump nominated longtime Goldman Sachs banker Steve "Foreclosure King" Mnuchin for Treasury Secretary, the Wall Street giant has gotten cocky. Bloomberg News reports:

"After eight years as the face of Wall Street greed and the target of public scorn, the bankers at Goldman Sachs can be cheerful again. Not only has Trump’s election stoked hopes for looser regulatory policies that will make it easier for banks to take bigger risks and book fatter profits, but Goldman also appears to have regained its place at the nexus between Wall Street and Washington."

Mnuchin personally made millions of dollars foreclosing on over 36,000 homes using egregious tactics that a federal judge called "harsh, repugnant, shocking, and repulsive." Both Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders call his nomination "hypocrisy at its worst" -- a betrayal of Trump's tirades against Goldman Sachs during the campaign.

Fight back against Goldman Sachs. Sign the petition to the Senate: Vote NO on Steven Mnuchin's nomination for Treasury Secretary.

Goldman Sachs is one of the most grievous abusers of Wall Street power. Just this month, Goldman Sachs was slapped with a $120 million fine for manipulating key interest rates. And now Mnuchin is one of 4 (and counting) Goldman Sachs bankers in Trump's administration.

As Bloomberg writes, Mnuchin and Trump are "poised to preside over a rollback of financial regulations that arguably threatened Goldman more than any other top bank in the years following the financial crisis. Most notably, Trump has said he’s considering a repeal of the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act that Congress passed to protect consumers and prevent a repeat of the financial crisis. Regulators appointed by Trump could also choose to give banks more leeway with certain rules, even if they remain in place."

With enough support, we have a chance to block a select few of Trump's nominations, like Mnuchin's, that pose the gravest risk to millions of American families.

Right now, we are talking with people Mnuchin's bank foreclosed on and others who can speak out in a compelling way in TV ads and at media events around the nation.

PCCC members have already flooded the Senate with thousands of calls urging a NO vote. We are unifying Democrats against Mnuchin, and putting pressure on vulnerable Republicans with newspaper and TV ads in their home states.

Stand with tens of thousands of PCCC members who have signed the petition and stand with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

Thanks for being a bold progressive.

--Keith Rouda, PCCC organizer

[Galen]

(12-26-2016, 08:38 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Eric the GreenI Wrote:I'm with Jane. See Jane run. She Jane speak. Be like Jane; speak!

See Spot run. See Spot bark. Yeah, Dick and Jane are grade school material.

Yes, that is about right for Eric the Obtuse.

[Eric the Green]

[Eric the Green]

Some people here got distracted by my post about Jane. You can put in any group of issues you want; all of them are important. The point is, be like Jane. Organize and fight back. Here's Michael Moore again, one of our leaders in the fight (you know he's good if Classic Xer can't stand him! )





There may even be some people here who could be a group. Or a group of your facebook friends. I'm not so sure about my neighborhood though, or the groups I hang with in the flesh. What do you guys think? Is there a group you could get together to be one of Moore's small local rapid response teams?

I have lots of organizations emailing me, and I sign their petitions sometimes, and they constantly want my money. I don't know if that does any good.

[David Horn]

(12-28-2016, 05:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-28-2016, 03:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

No Eric, the UC/UMC-wing of the Democratic Party is the entire problem.  You can't win general elections by just being sensitive to LGBTGA rights, and by opposing every energy project, no matter how benign.  Worse, all these issue groups reuse to support one another, so no one wins.

I don't know what UC/UMC wing refers too, but in any case, the social justice and the economic concerns are fused together, and all these issues and those concerned about them must be seen together, if the progressive side is to win. I don't know if they will, but I am predicting that they will by the 2020s, FWIW.

FWIW, UC = Upper Class, UMC = Upper Middle Class.  And no, there is no fusion and no indication of fusion in the offing.  Every special pleader still frames the world as it relates to his or her own special cause, guaranteeing that unity on the left will never happen.  No one likes to genuflect before the altar of a cause they care little about, yet that is the strategy of the left: "Let a hundred lights shine, each into its own special place --- and only there".

Eric Wrote:The pipelines must be opposed; they are not benign. Nuclear energy must be safe, with recycling of waste, or it's not benign either. We can't do without energy, though, so all sides must be allies in the general fight against the owners of our country and their neo-liberal philosophy. That is the common enemy to all these groups within the progressive movement and the Democrats. It must be defeated so that alternative energy can be supported.

You'll never get there by being hysterical and 100% oppositional.  The only viable solution that creates a wave of support is one that focuses on finding solutions for the many, and then works to implement them. 

Eric Wrote:This common enemy is summed up in the slogan, "I oppose giving my tax money to X-groups (blacks, women, Hispanics, lazy people) who don't work." That meme is out of date in the age of outsourcing and automation, wage/salary gross inequality, and refusal to use government to tackle any issue no matter how threatening to the environment and the people. "The government is not the solution; government is the problem." THAT'S the meme, the slogan, that must be replaced. It's "I refuse to allow the government to steal my money and give it to lazy people." It's the common enemy to ALL the groups and issues of concern among progressives, liberals, Democrats, etc. We must focus on ending neo-liberalism, or we must die.

40 years of great marketing can't be overcome by shaking your fist and calling people ignorant.  The correct approach includes the Reagan catch phrase, "Are you better off."  In 2020, that will either be winning argument, or the Trump plan will have succeeded, all expectations to the contrary.

Eric Wrote:Look at that picture of Reagan and Thatcher at the White House, and their look and attitude. That's the common enemy. Trump is their new face.

They were the culmination of decades of prep work.  Get busy.

[David Horn]

(12-29-2016, 06:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I have lots of organizations emailing me, and I sign their petitions sometimes, and they constantly want my money. I don't know if that does any good.

Me too, and this makes the point I covered in my last post.  I give sparingly as well, because I can't support 100 groups that bombard me nearly every day.  Obviously I'm not alone. 

All these groups need to start supporting each other, and create an umbrella that acts as a single face to the public -- but they won't.  It means compromise, and that's not a word in their unshared vocabulary.

[tg63]

(12-30-2016, 11:12 AM)David Horn Wrote: [quote pid='16145' dateline='1482965966']
...

Eric Wrote:The pipelines must be opposed; they are not benign. Nuclear energy must be safe, with recycling of waste, or it's not benign either. We can't do without energy, though, so all sides must be allies in the general fight against the owners of our country and their neo-liberal philosophy. That is the common enemy to all these groups within the progressive movement and the Democrats. It must be defeated so that alternative energy can be supported.

You'll never get there by being hysterical and 100% oppositional.  The only viable solution that creates a wave of support is one that focuses on finding solutions for the many, and then works to implement them. 
[/quote]

This is a great example.  I doubt that most people who oppose transporting oil by pipeline understand that they are by definition supporting the transport of oil by rail.  That's not benign either (see: Lac Megantic Quebec in 2009, 47 killed).

[Bronsin]

(12-29-2016, 06:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Here's Michael Moore again, one of our leaders in the fight

If this mouthbreather is a leader in your fight, it's no wonder Hillary lost LMMFAO

[Eric the Green]

Don't be surprised if he has a wide appeal. Of course conservatives don't like him! That's because he is not afraid to speak the truth, from the progressive point of view. Don't forget he has a strong connection to Rust Belt voters. Revealing their plight is what got him started, and what allowed him to predict that Trump would win by carrying those states. He is articulate and connects well with people. What we need, is someone on our side who connects well with people, and articulates the message. Not someone whom the other side likes. We need the reverse Trump, in that sense. He fits the bill; Hillary did not.

[Eric the Green]

(12-30-2016, 12:51 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(12-30-2016, 11:12 AM)David Horn Wrote: [quote pid='16145' dateline='1482965966']
...

Eric Wrote:The pipelines must be opposed; they are not benign. Nuclear energy must be safe, with recycling of waste, or it's not benign either. We can't do without energy, though, so all sides must be allies in the general fight against the owners of our country and their neo-liberal philosophy. That is the common enemy to all these groups within the progressive movement and the Democrats. It must be defeated so that alternative energy can be supported.

You'll never get there by being hysterical and 100% oppositional.  The only viable solution that creates a wave of support is one that focuses on finding solutions for the many, and then works to implement them. 

This is a great example.  I doubt that most people who oppose transporting oil by pipeline understand that they are by definition supporting the transport of oil by rail.  That's not benign either (see: Lac Megantic Quebec in 2009, 47 killed).
[/quote]

No, that is not correct. No, opposition to the pipelines is a great cause. The only way Democrats can win is by supporting each others' causes in an alliance, not by focusing on your own cause and knocking the others. Clever excuses are baloney. Pipelines cause massive oil spills, and enable the oil industry to keep on going and expanding. It needs to stop, in a gradual but fast process of conversion away from fossil fuels. Many folks and many nations realize this. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren realize this. All progressives realize this. It is the most essential progressive cause. If you don't support it, you might as well vote for Trump; you are not on the progressive side.

[Eric the Green]

(12-30-2016, 11:29 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-29-2016, 06:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I have lots of organizations emailing me, and I sign their petitions sometimes, and they constantly want my money. I don't know if that does any good.

Me too, and this makes the point I covered in my last post.  I give sparingly as well, because I can't support 100 groups that bombard me nearly every day.  Obviously I'm not alone. 

All these groups need to start supporting each other, and create an umbrella that acts as a single face to the public -- but they won't.  It means compromise, and that's not a word in their unshared vocabulary.

But it needs to be.

Some of those groups are broad based and support a range of causes; let's be fair.

[Eric the Green]

(12-30-2016, 11:12 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-28-2016, 05:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-28-2016, 03:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-26-2016, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: No, Eric's enlightened idiots are not the problem. They support the right causes all up and down the line. Those who are deceived by Republicans are the problem. The Democrats need to organize to fight back, not call each other the problem.

No Eric, the UC/UMC-wing of the Democratic Party is the entire problem.  You can't win general elections by just being sensitive to LGBTGA rights, and by opposing every energy project, no matter how benign.  Worse, all these issue groups reuse to support one another, so no one wins.

I don't know what UC/UMC wing refers too, but in any case, the social justice and the economic concerns are fused together, and all these issues and those concerned about them must be seen together, if the progressive side is to win. I don't know if they will, but I am predicting that they will by the 2020s, FWIW.

FWIW, UC = Upper Class, UMC = Upper Middle Class.  And no, there is no fusion and no indication of fusion in the offing.  Every special pleader still frames the world as it relates to his or her own special cause, guaranteeing that unity on the left will never happen.  No one likes to genuflect before the altar of a cause they care little about, yet that is the strategy of the left: "Let a hundred lights shine, each into its own special place --- and only there".

Eric Wrote:The pipelines must be opposed; they are not benign. Nuclear energy must be safe, with recycling of waste, or it's not benign either. We can't do without energy, though, so all sides must be allies in the general fight against the owners of our country and their neo-liberal philosophy. That is the common enemy to all these groups within the progressive movement and the Democrats. It must be defeated so that alternative energy can be supported.

You'll never get there by being hysterical and 100% oppositional.  The only viable solution that creates a wave of support is one that focuses on finding solutions for the many, and then works to implement them. 

Eric Wrote:This common enemy is summed up in the slogan, "I oppose giving my tax money to X-groups (blacks, women, Hispanics, lazy people) who don't work." That meme is out of date in the age of outsourcing and automation, wage/salary gross inequality, and refusal to use government to tackle any issue no matter how threatening to the environment and the people. "The government is not the solution; government is the problem." THAT'S the meme, the slogan, that must be replaced. It's "I refuse to allow the government to steal my money and give it to lazy people." It's the common enemy to ALL the groups and issues of concern among progressives, liberals, Democrats, etc. We must focus on ending neo-liberalism, or we must die.

40 years of great marketing can't be overcome by shaking your fist and calling people ignorant.  The correct approach includes the Reagan catch phrase, "Are you better off."  In 2020, that will either be winning argument, or the Trump plan will have succeeded, all expectations to the contrary.

Eric Wrote:Look at that picture of Reagan and Thatcher at the White House, and their look and attitude. That's the common enemy. Trump is their new face.

They were the culmination of decades of prep work.  Get busy.

It's true, but the argument must necessarily include busting neo-liberal free-market economics and the appeal of "less government." That is the meme that people need to get out of their heads, if any progress is to be made ever again. It crops up all the time in peoples' thinking, and needs to go away. That's job 1.

Since I "call people ignorant," maybe I'm not the best messenger. After all, I only score about 11-18 on the candidate horoscope point system  About the same as Bill Maher. Imagine if HE ran! We have others who are better at this.

One question is whether liberals and progressives could get behind Terry McAuliffe, if he runs. He seems to have the best chance, from my studies of the data so far. He's very good at speaking and appealing to people. But we know he's in the Clinton mold. He's your governor, what do you think David?

[Eric the Green]

Democrats and liberals need to get fired up and fight back.

[Bob Butler 54]

CNN's latest report is that the Republicans are gutting the House Ethics Panel.

Now why would they want to do that now?

[Eric the Green]

Who woulda thought; the most famous creator of quiet, peaceful ambient music, makes a great statement about where we are. I hope people listen to his words as well as to his music.

BRIAN ENO, 2016/2017:
"The consensus among most of my friends seems to be that 2016 was a terrible year, and the beginning of a long decline into something we don’t even want to imagine.

2016 was indeed a pretty rough year, but I wonder if it’s the end - not the beginning - of a long decline. Or at least the beginning of the end….for I think we’ve been in decline for about 40 years, enduring a slow process of de-civilisation, but not really quite noticing it until now. I’m reminded of that thing about the frog placed in a pan of slowly heating water…

This decline includes the transition from secure employment to precarious employment, the destruction of unions and the shrinkage of workers’ rights, zero hour contracts, the dismantling of local government, a health service falling apart, an underfunded education system ruled by meaningless exam results and league tables, the increasingly acceptable stigmatisation of immigrants, knee-jerk nationalism, and the concentration of prejudice enabled by social media and the internet.

This process of decivilisation grew out of an ideology which sneered at social generosity and championed a sort of righteous selfishness. (Thatcher: “Poverty is a personality defect”. Ayn Rand: “Altruism is evil”). The emphasis on unrestrained individualism has had two effects: the creation of a huge amount of wealth, and the funnelling of it into fewer and fewer hands. Right now the 62 richest people in the world are as wealthy as the bottom half of its population combined.

The Thatcher/Reagan fantasy that all this wealth would ‘trickle down’ and enrich everybody else simply hasn’t transpired. In fact the reverse has happened: the real wages of most people have been in decline for at least two decades, while at the same time their prospects - and the prospects for their children - look dimmer and dimmer. No wonder people are angry, and turning away from business-as-usual government for solutions. When governments pay most attention to whoever has most money, the huge wealth inequalities we now see make a mockery of the idea of democracy. As George Monbiot said: “The pen may be mightier than the sword, but the purse is mightier than the pen”.

Last year people started waking up to this. A lot of them, in their anger, grabbed the nearest Trump-like object and hit the Establishment over the head with it. But those were just the most conspicuous, media-tasty awakenings. Meanwhile there’s been a quieter but equally powerful stirring: people are rethinking what democracy means, what society means and what we need to do to make them work again. People are thinking hard, and, most importantly, thinking out loud, together. I think we underwent a mass disillusionment in 2016, and finally realised it’s time to jump out of the saucepan.

This is the start of something big. It will involve engagement: not just tweets and likes and swipes, but thoughtful and creative social and political action too. It will involve realising that some things we’ve taken for granted - some semblance of truth in reporting, for example - can no longer be expected for free. If we want good reporting and good analysis, we’ll have to pay for it.

That means MONEY: direct financial support for the publications and websites struggling to tell the non-corporate, non-establishment side of the story. In the same way if we want happy and creative children we need to take charge of education, not leave it to ideologues and bottom-liners. If we want social generosity, then we must pay our taxes and get rid of our tax havens. And if we want thoughtful politicians, we should stop supporting merely charismatic ones.

Inequality eats away at the heart of a society, breeding disdain, resentment, envy, suspicion, bullying, arrogance and callousness. If we want any decent kind of future we have to push away from that, and I think we’re starting to.

There’s so much to do, so many possibilities. 2017 should be a surprising year." - Brian

[naf140230]

(01-03-2017, 12:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN's latest report is that the Republicans are gutting the House Ethics Panel.

Now why would they want to do that now?

The New York Times reports the Republicans have decided not to do that after all due to significant backlash.

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-07-2017, 09:18 PM)naf140230 Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 12:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN's latest report is that the Republicans are gutting the House Ethics Panel.

Now why would they want to do that now?

The New York Times reports the Republicans have decided not to do that after all due to significant backlash.

Ah.  I hope this encourages the sources of backlash.