Fight for 15 D.O.A.

[Kinser79]

And the GOP had to do nothing.....

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/03/09...estaurant/

Quote:A Californian fast food restaurant has introduced a robot that flips and cooks burgers, replacing human workers at the grill.
The Telegraph reports that the robot, named Flippy, was developed by Miso Robotics and began its first day on the job at Caliburger this week. “Much like self-driving vehicles, our system continuously learns from its experiences to improve over time,” said David Zito, CEO of Miso Robotics.

The Telegraph reports that the robot, named Flippy, was developed by Miso Robotics and began its first day on the job at Caliburger this week. “Much like self-driving vehicles, our system continuously learns from its experiences to improve over time,” said David Zito, CEO of Miso Robotics.

Zito continued, “Though we are starting with the relatively ‘simple’ task of cooking burgers, our proprietary AI software allows our kitchen assistants to be adaptable and therefore can be trained to help with almost any dull, dirty or dangerous task in a commercial kitchen — whether it’s frying chicken, cutting vegetables or final plating.”
Flippy is slightly limited in its current form; the robot can flip burgers and use built-in cameras and sensors to determine when the burger is cooked before placing the burger on a bun. However Flippy has not been developed to add sauces or condiments, a human worker must be available to perform those tasks.

This introduction of robots to the kitchen follows on the heels of restaurant chains including Wendy’s rolling out self-order kiosks to their stores.

Caliburger aims to have Flippy robots installed in 50 of their restaurants worldwide by 2019. The company stated that the benefits of using Flippy over a human worker include making “food faster, safer and with fewer errors.”

Lucas Nolan is a reporter for Breitbart News covering issues of free speech and online censorship. Follow him on Twitter @LucasNolan_ or email him at lnolan@breitbart.com

[Kinser79]

I would argue that a lot of the talk of self-driving cars is over blown. Tech companies might be able to produce an AI that can drive a car, but for the reasons you indicated I don't think it is practical. Well unless we privatize traffic management systems, which seems unlikely. I don't see where traffic management has a product which it can sell.

That being said, I've argued in the past that Minimum wages should be a state matter. A position that President Trump agrees with. The reasoning behind it is simple. If a minimum wage is required then the states are best equipped to determine what it should be. The cost of living for example is quite different in San Francisco CA or NYC than it is Biloxi MS or Orlando FL.

That being said retaining current minimum wages only stalls automation for a while. The real problem occurs when machines make everything and do everything but one's income for buying all these things the machines make is still determined by having a job that pays money for doing things.

I foresee that should heavy implementation of automation take place in the restaurant industry we'll see prices eventually falling to zero. The same has already happened in music and film distribution. Marx's labor theory of value rears its head yet again.

[Galen]

(03-10-2017, 01:27 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I foresee that should heavy implementation of automation take place in the restaurant industry we'll see prices eventually falling to zero.  The same has already happened in music and film distribution.  Marx's labor theory of value rears its head yet again.

Its not Marx's labor theory of value but rather the combination of minimum wage and labor law in general has made the capital investment in automation cost less than for human labor in low skilled jobs.  Its just basic Marginal Utility theory at work which you correctly identified earlier.  I don't see prices in this case falling to zero because an actual physical product is being produced.  It is not even clear that a price decrease will occur since my take on this is that the fast food industry is just trying to tread water.  Take a look at McDonalds sales numbers and you will see what I mean.

[Kinser79]

I would say that absent human labor, that restaurants would still charge for the production costs (raw materials and energy for the robots) so maybe not zero but pretty close to it. I've yet to see an economic system that did not have human labor as a component part.

As for McDonalds sales numbers there are three factors at play in that. 1. Changing customer tastes (Xers and Millies seem to prefer healthier options and offering a salad drenched in oil doesn't cut it). 2. Lagging aggregate demand (the economy is still pretty rough for most people and eating out, even McDonalds is a luxury). 3. Competition from non-fast food options.

[Galen]

(03-10-2017, 06:40 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would say that absent human labor, that restaurants would still charge for the production costs (raw materials and energy for the robots) so maybe not zero but pretty close to it.  I've yet to see an economic system that did not have human labor as a component part.

As for McDonalds sales numbers there are three factors at play in that.  1.  Changing customer tastes (Xers and Millies seem to prefer healthier options and offering a salad drenched in oil doesn't cut it).  2.   Lagging aggregate demand (the economy is still pretty rough for most people and eating out, even McDonalds is a luxury).  3.  Competition from non-fast food options.

Fair enough but labor costs are a huge component of business expenses followed by regulatory compliance costs and of course the inevitable looting by governments that a business must somehow survive.

[Kinser79]

Obviously I can't speak for all businesses but I can speak about the food industry, both as management in it, and a patron of it. With McDonalds in particular, factor 3 is the most important to me. Lets just suppose we have 50 bucks to spend. Now I gotta feed a 60 year old, 2 30-something men, and a teenager.

Now I can go to McDonalds (or in our case Burger King, none of us really like McDonalds) and get a mediocre meal, or I can go to the Chinese buffet, and eat far too much including more than a little sushi, and have two beers for me and the BF, an have a really great time. (Mother doesn't drink at all, and the kid can't drink at a restaurant for obvious reasons--if he wants a beer at home he merely need to ask [as it is either my beer or the BF's beer and to us alcohol is nothing to really fuss over].)

But yes, labor is a major overhead consideration for restaurants. If it gets slow I actually have to cut people, especially hourly people to keep labor costs under a certain percentage or I won't make a profit on the day.

ETA: Chances are good even the junkyest food at the Chinese place is still healthier than McDonalds.

[Galen]

(03-11-2017, 08:06 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Obviously I can't speak for all businesses but I can speak about the food industry, both as management in it, and a patron of it.  With McDonalds in particular, factor 3 is the most important to me.  Lets just suppose we have 50 bucks to spend.  Now I gotta feed a 60 year old, 2 30-something men, and a teenager.

Now I can go to McDonalds (or in our case Burger King, none of us really like McDonalds) and get a mediocre meal, or I can go to the Chinese buffet, and eat far too much including more than a little sushi, and have two beers for me and the BF, an have a really great time.  (Mother doesn't drink at all, and the kid can't drink at a restaurant for obvious reasons--if he wants a beer at home he merely need to ask [as it is either my beer or the BF's beer and to us alcohol is nothing to really fuss over].)

But yes, labor is a major overhead consideration for restaurants.  If it gets slow I actually have to cut people, especially hourly people to keep labor costs under a certain percentage or I won't make a profit on the day.

ETA:  Chances are good even the junkyest food at the Chinese place is still healthier than McDonalds.

Those of us who have worked in such places and considered the economics understand this.  Truth is, I would rather got to a Thai restaurant but then you can't throw a dead cat without hitting one of those where I live.  I may spend a little more but the food is much better than any fast food joint.  Indeed, some of the best Thai food I encountered was from a food cart in Portland in near PSU.  I went their every chance I got.

As for the economics involved it is clear you have more of a clue than Eric the Obtuse or Odin will ever have.

[Kinser79]

(03-11-2017, 09:50 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-11-2017, 08:06 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Obviously I can't speak for all businesses but I can speak about the food industry, both as management in it, and a patron of it.  With McDonalds in particular, factor 3 is the most important to me.  Lets just suppose we have 50 bucks to spend.  Now I gotta feed a 60 year old, 2 30-something men, and a teenager.

Now I can go to McDonalds (or in our case Burger King, none of us really like McDonalds) and get a mediocre meal, or I can go to the Chinese buffet, and eat far too much including more than a little sushi, and have two beers for me and the BF, an have a really great time.  (Mother doesn't drink at all, and the kid can't drink at a restaurant for obvious reasons--if he wants a beer at home he merely need to ask [as it is either my beer or the BF's beer and to us alcohol is nothing to really fuss over].)

But yes, labor is a major overhead consideration for restaurants.  If it gets slow I actually have to cut people, especially hourly people to keep labor costs under a certain percentage or I won't make a profit on the day.

ETA:  Chances are good even the junkyest food at the Chinese place is still healthier than McDonalds.

Those of us who have worked in such places and considered the economics understand this.  Truth is, I would rather got to a Thai restaurant but then you can't throw a dead cat without hitting one of those where I live.  I may spend a little more but the food is much better than any fast food joint.  Indeed, some of the best Thai food I encountered was from a food cart in Portland in near PSU.  I went their every chance I got.

As for the economics involved it is clear you have more of a clue than Eric the Obtuse or Odin will ever have.

We don't have very many Thai places. And Sunday Lunch is perhaps the most important meal of the week. Mother and the BF do the church thing, and though the boy and I don't it's considered "family time".

As for understanding the economic implications in deciding where to eat I don't know if I should feel complemnted or insulted at the comparison to Eric or Odin. I mean it isn't that hard to be intellectually superior to Eric (my 5 year old nephew is and he struggles with Dr. Seuss--which is hardly high literature). As for Odin, I think his problem is he's incredibly naive. Somehow he's managed to avoid life kicking the shit out of him--but he can't avoid it forever and he'll ether wise up or flounder.

[Kinser79]

(03-11-2017, 10:36 PM)Galen Wrote:

(03-11-2017, 10:46 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-11-2017, 09:50 AM)Galen Wrote: Those of us who have worked in such places and considered the economics understand this.  Truth is, I would rather got to a Thai restaurant but then you can't throw a dead cat without hitting one of those where I live.  I may spend a little more but the food is much better than any fast food joint.  Indeed, some of the best Thai food I encountered was from a food cart in Portland in near PSU.  I went their every chance I got.

As for the economics involved it is clear you have more of a clue than Eric the Obtuse or Odin will ever have.

As for understanding the economic implications in deciding where to eat I don't know if I should feel complemnted or insulted at the comparison to Eric or Odin.  I mean it isn't that hard to be intellectually superior to Eric (my 5 year old nephew is and he struggles with Dr. Seuss--which is hardly high literature).  As for Odin, I think his problem is he's incredibly naive.  Somehow he's managed to avoid life kicking the shit out of him--but he can't avoid it forever and he'll ether wise up or flounder.

True enough but it is always a good idea to make sure that any new members get a heads up on who the morons are around here.  Odin spends most of his time being outraged which is very time consuming but he will either live and learn or he won't live long.

Ah altruism.  I find that new members typically have to learn for themselves who is and who is not a moron.  I find that a disproportionate number of those who would spend time on a forum such as this tend to either be partisan hacks or independent thinkers.

[Galen]

(03-12-2017, 02:48 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Ah altruism.  I find that new members typically have to learn for themselves who is and who is not a moron.  I find that a disproportionate number of those who would spend time on a forum such as this tend to either be partisan hacks or independent thinkers.

I have been known to engage in that particular vice from time to time.  

True enough and I forgot that with the autistic screeching coming from the left these days it is even easier to spot the Democratic hacks.

[Kinser79]

You mean it was difficult? The political hacks typically out themselves pretty easily.

[Galen]

(03-12-2017, 05:06 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: You mean it was difficult?  The political hacks typically out themselves pretty easily.

It depends.  Some of them can keep a lid on the crazy for awhile but really doesn't describe Eric the Obtuse or Odin.

[Kinser79]

(03-12-2017, 05:15 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-12-2017, 05:06 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: You mean it was difficult?  The political hacks typically out themselves pretty easily.

It depends.  Some of them can keep a lid on the crazy for awhile but really doesn't describe Eric the Obtuse or Odin.

Kinser's Law

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a political hack outing themselves as a political hack approaches 1.

--

That is to say if you listen to a hack long enough they either out themselves to you (or if you're unlucky and/or stupid) are sucked into their mindset, so that you will never be able to detect them.

In short the best defense against a hack is a good bullshit detector, but common sense helps too.

[Galen]

(03-12-2017, 03:16 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-12-2017, 05:15 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-12-2017, 05:06 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: You mean it was difficult?  The political hacks typically out themselves pretty easily.

It depends.  Some of them can keep a lid on the crazy for awhile but really doesn't describe Eric the Obtuse or Odin.

Kinser's Law

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a political hack outing themselves as a political hack approaches 1.

Make sense.  It is always my preference to hurry the process of outing the hacks as much as possible.