Posts: 1,131
Threads: 6
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 01:04 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:32 AM)Galen Wrote: (03-09-2017, 08:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-09-2017, 02:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent. This is the new America that SomeGuy, Kinser, Galen, bobc, Bronsin, and all you other conservative Trumpsters want. If you manage to stem the demographic tide with your border controls, and your assaults on democracy, then we'll have little choice besides one form of bluexit or another.
I can't speak for the others, but I've been saying that the US is to large to be properly governed for decades. Yes the Blue states should go. Go and form their own countries. Everyone will be better off. Maybe we can deport all the decrepit morons invading Florida from New York. Could be worse though I understand AZ is being invaded by aging hippies which has to be worse.
I wish you guys would hurry up and get on with leaving then. I will be happy to see California go and it should be fun to see them implode their own economy.
Dude, you're in Oregon. If devolution happens you are not going to be on the Red side unless you move.
The Willamette valley might go with you but I am not so certain about the rest of the state. Should Oregon leave with California then I am certain the process will be slow enough that I will be able to make it to Idaho before that happens.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
Posts: 1,015
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
Yeah, people forget that once you start tearing the country apart based on political identification, there's really nothing sacred about state borders either. Look at Yugoslavia (particularly Bosnia and Kosovo, or the Krajina region in Croatia) for an example.
Posts: 1,015
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
Yup, I am sure all people leaving CA over the past few decades have been "low-status" whites, and everybody moving into CA have been high income people working in the knowledge economy. 
Posts: 1,216
Threads: 29
Joined: May 2016
IIRC a big reason people are leaving California is simply because the housing prices and rents in LA and the Bay Area have gotten too insanely high.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 03:44 PM)Galen Wrote: The Willamette valley might go with you but I am not so certain about the rest of the state. Should Oregon leave with California then I am certain the process will be slow enough that I will be able to make it to Idaho before that happens.
I sure wish the progressives would stop talking about it and they'd begin the process of actually doing it. The best thing that could happen for America is a peaceful split.
Posts: 1,015
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
(03-10-2017, 05:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 04:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yup, I am sure all people leaving CA over the past few decades have been "low-status" whites, and everybody moving into CA have been high income people working in the knowledge economy.
No one is saying all.
However, generally speaking, the "professionals" don't flee, especially if they are not "Sons/Daughters of the Golden West" WASPS. Meanwhile it's our "49er" and the more recent Okie/Arkie descendants who tend to. Sure there are some higher status people among them. But generally, high status people at most will "flee" to Placer County or some such. They don't leave the state.
Meanwhile, lots of varied and highly talented people are moving in.
I look at everyone I am aware of in a network of a couple thousand people cutting across wide economic and demographic strata, and what I wrote is largely true. It's a microcosm of the Nation in many ways. The "traditional (WASP) white" middle income demographic are not really winning in the new economy and whatever new phase the US moved into late last century.
Dude, my parents (particularly my Dad) are that sort of WASP, left years ago, and refuse to move back. Well, actually, they moved back briefly, then immediately turned around and move to Indiana.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 05:07 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 05:05 PM)Odin Wrote: IIRC a big reason people are leaving California is simply because the housing prices and rents in LA and the Bay Area have gotten too insanely high.
Yep.
A fairly large concentration of American blue/global blue Yuppi's will have that effect.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 05:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 04:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yup, I am sure all people leaving CA over the past few decades have been "low-status" whites, and everybody moving into CA have been high income people working in the knowledge economy.
No one is saying all.
However, generally speaking, the "professionals" don't flee, especially if they are not "Sons/Daughters of the Golden West" WASPS. Meanwhile it's our "49er" and the more recent Okie/Arkie descendants who tend to. Sure there are some higher status people among them. But generally, high status people at most will "flee" to Placer County or some such. They don't leave the state.
Meanwhile, lots of varied and highly talented people are moving in.
I look at everyone I am aware of in a network of a couple thousand people cutting across wide economic and demographic strata, and what I wrote is largely true. It's a microcosm of the Nation in many ways. The "traditional (WASP) white" middle income demographic are not really winning in the new economy and whatever new phase the US moved into late last century.
You'll flee. I've already seen you flee when things appeared to get a little tough. The so-called "professionals" are bunch of candy asses and the bulk of them will flee. They were a bunch candy asses during the 80's and they are still a bunch of candy asses today. Do you still have that old working class mentality or has the cozy blue life that you and so many others here have become accustomed to living softened (domesticated) you to much?
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
03-10-2017, 06:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2017, 06:53 PM by Eric the Green.)
"that old working class mentality" were Democratic voters, and belonged to unions. They understood the idea of collective security and pooling of resources. They understood that the workers need to stand together against the overbearing and greedy bosses.
"Professional candy asses" are folks who work smart, and not just with physical effort. They understand tech, and they understand the need for people to work together to make a prosperous economy for all.
But CA and other blue states may "flee" from the USA if it appears that the retrograde traditionalist and trickle-downer mentality cannot be penetrated.
Posts: 1,499
Threads: 16
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 03:19 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: 70% is actually pretty good. With retirees, stay-at-home parents, and students, that's fairly reasonable. It's higher than the national rate has ever been (since WWII at least)
Dude..Students and retirees aren't counted in the workforce participation rate. Neither are parents who stay at home by choice. The Labor department counts those who are working, or looking for work and includes those who aren't drawing unemployment insurance. What this means is that 3 out of every 10 Minnesotans who want a job don't have one.
Florida's current rate is somewhere in the 67% region which while higher than the national average is lower than it should be because tourism is the third largest industry. People up north who don't have jobs don't go to the beach or Disney on vacation.
Posts: 1,499
Threads: 16
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 06:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-10-2017, 05:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 04:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yup, I am sure all people leaving CA over the past few decades have been "low-status" whites, and everybody moving into CA have been high income people working in the knowledge economy.
No one is saying all.
However, generally speaking, the "professionals" don't flee, especially if they are not "Sons/Daughters of the Golden West" WASPS. Meanwhile it's our "49er" and the more recent Okie/Arkie descendants who tend to. Sure there are some higher status people among them. But generally, high status people at most will "flee" to Placer County or some such. They don't leave the state.
Meanwhile, lots of varied and highly talented people are moving in.
I look at everyone I am aware of in a network of a couple thousand people cutting across wide economic and demographic strata, and what I wrote is largely true. It's a microcosm of the Nation in many ways. The "traditional (WASP) white" middle income demographic are not really winning in the new economy and whatever new phase the US moved into late last century.
You'll flee. I've already seen you flee when things appeared to get a little tough. The so-called "professionals" are bunch of candy asses and the bulk of them will flee. They were a bunch candy asses during the 80's and they are still a bunch of candy asses today. Do you still have that old working class mentality or has the cozy blue life that you and so many others here have become accustomed to living softened (domesticated) you to much?
Here's the thing. Those folks who are moving in, the knowledge sector professionals will leave as soon as Governor Moonbeam implements his People's Republic. It is always the intellectuals that flee during socialist revolutions. Happened in Russia, China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba etc. So what is left is the people too poor to escape and they are largely the low IQ and low Rent types.
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 02:10 PM)TeacherinExile Wrote: (03-10-2017, 12:52 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: You misunderstand. I am not offended, nor am I apologizing for my vote, I just don't think what you linked to counted as satire, nor was it particularly witty. Had Eric or PBrower or Alphabet or any of the other emotionally-crippled old men who post routinely here linked to it, I probably would have passed without comment. It was the fact that you are usually more open-minded that made me cringe when you posted something so narrowly partisan, that amounted to little more than a "blue" venting his spleen at the "reds".
I mean, to whom do you think that article was actually addressed? What was the message that the article was trying to get across? How effective do you think the rhetorical strategy chosen was in conveying said message to said audience? What elements do you feel identified the article as being satiric in intent?
It simply made me laugh. Was it satire? Only in the sense that the writer was being deliberately impractical, though not completely so. Much as Jonathan Swift sounded wildly impractical and immoral, intentionally so, as a counterpoint to the British response to the poor, starving Irish. Personally, I don't think "virtual secession" is that all that farfetched, though a lot would have to go wrong in America for that to come about in any meaningful way. Like Kinser, I wouldn't rule out dissolution, Soviet-style. And that wouldn't take a civil war, necessarily, to accomplish.
If you could see the extreme legislation that the GOP-controlled statehouse is trying pass here in my adopted state, and the 2016 voter-approved initiative (minimum wage hike) that the Arizona Chamber of Commerce is trying to overturn by way of judicial review, contrary to popular will, you would understand my initial impulse to move to a state (or country) more in accord with my values. I'm not partisan in the least, though I admit I do fall--for now--on one side of the political spectrum, and only then as a countervailing force in a country that has swung too far in one direction. Truly, I am a radical pragmatist, oxymoron that that may seem. Where is the political party for that "ideology," pray tell? Do I have to move to a country like Singapore to find a government ruled by some semblance of common sense? (Authoritarian as that country may be.) You know the old saying, "If it ain't broke (Glass-Steagall), don't fix it?" and if it is broke (healthcare), we best fix it, and now.
In my lifetime, both parties have pressed their so-called "mandate" and electoral advantage too far. Forced busing? Bad idea--hello, "white flight." Hate crimes? Didn't sentencing guidelines already give judges the leeway to incorporate such aggravating factors into the sentences they impose? Isn't it obvious to the jury--and to the public--that, when a man goes into sports bar and yells "Go back to your country!" and then kills an Indian-American (not a "Middle Easterner") that racial animus probably motivated the crime? "Free-speech zones"? Don't get me started.
It is as one man has said, "There's a common lack of common sense in America." My girlfriend and I agree that the evidence of that is all around us, and not just in the political arena. Just where is the leadership that's going to reverse that trend so that we can get down to the serious business of fixing what ails our country? Having taught young people, who I always thought were entitled to wild-eyed optimism, I generally disdain cynicism, defeatism, much less despair. Millennials, including my two grown sons, deserve so much better. But when I survey the politicians on offer, I'm hard-pressed to find a Washington, Lincoln, or FDR in the bunch. Perhaps, Trump in some weird, inimical way will assume--and justify--the mantle of Gray Champion. We better all hope so. Because if he fails, and spectacularly so, I fear someone--or something--much worse will come in his place. I will hold that thought in abeyance for now..
As of now, I doubt there is anyone who could be worse than Trump. He has devolved to the far right in every sense. The best we can hope for is that his extreme retrograde policies and narcissist behavior generates the regeneracy on the Left that we need. That's how we get someone better instead of worse. As of now, it would have to be a Democrat, but in a 4T things can change quickly and an independent or third party candidate of the center-left or left could appear to save the day.
I don't see anything wrong with hate crimes laws, but many years ago I'd agree that sometimes criminals were let off too easy. That has now gone to the other extreme, and people on both right and left agree that innocent people have been punished and that prosecution and sentencing needs to be more fair, especially to the disadvantaged.
I'm afraid disunion and exits are very serious now, and it can only be avoided if the right-wing is defeated, and enough people on the right begin to change and open their minds. In any case, I have always agreed that a break-up need not necessitate or cause a civil war this time. It may be that, this time, like people on opposite sides here, we can allow each other to go our separate ways.
But it will be complicated. It would be better if the right-wing vote-rigging and fanaticism that currently predominates can be overcome. The 4T must go to the Left, if our country is to come out ahead as it has in other 4Ts. That is always the side of progress, even if there's also some stubbornness or wrong-headedness on the Left that must be overcome as well.
Posts: 1,015
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
(03-10-2017, 06:57 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:19 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: 70% is actually pretty good. With retirees, stay-at-home parents, and students, that's fairly reasonable. It's higher than the national rate has ever been (since WWII at least)
Dude..Students and retirees aren't counted in the workforce participation rate. Neither are parents who stay at home by choice. The Labor department counts those who are working, or looking for work and includes those who aren't drawing unemployment insurance. What this means is that 3 out of every 10 Minnesotans who want a job don't have one.
Florida's current rate is somewhere in the 67% region which while higher than the national average is lower than it should be because tourism is the third largest industry. People up north who don't have jobs don't go to the beach or Disney on vacation.
No, you're mixing up the U3 unemployment rate with the civilian labor force participation rate. The one doesn't count all the people you say, the other takes the total employed + "unemployed" (U3) population and divides it by the total population over the age of 16 (minus, I think, people in prison, the military, a couple of other categories, etc.).
Posts: 1,499
Threads: 16
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 07:53 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (03-10-2017, 06:57 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:19 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: 70% is actually pretty good. With retirees, stay-at-home parents, and students, that's fairly reasonable. It's higher than the national rate has ever been (since WWII at least)
Dude..Students and retirees aren't counted in the workforce participation rate. Neither are parents who stay at home by choice. The Labor department counts those who are working, or looking for work and includes those who aren't drawing unemployment insurance. What this means is that 3 out of every 10 Minnesotans who want a job don't have one.
Florida's current rate is somewhere in the 67% region which while higher than the national average is lower than it should be because tourism is the third largest industry. People up north who don't have jobs don't go to the beach or Disney on vacation.
No, you're mixing up the U3 unemployment rate with the civilian labor force participation rate. The one doesn't count all the people you say, the other takes the total employed + "unemployed" (U3) population and divides it by the total population over the age of 16 (minus, I think, people in prison, the military, a couple of other categories, etc.).
Maybe...I can't keep statistics straight in my head as well as I used to. Part of having a teenager in the house. If it weren't just a natural progression of development I'd swear he was involved in a Russian Plot to drive me nuts.
In any event the fact is that I'm running into loads of people coming from northern rust belt states particularly IL, WI and MN down here. MI and OH are represented too but to a smaller degree. Strangely IN doesn't seem to make the mix....Pence's policies perhaps?
Posts: 1,216
Threads: 29
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:44 PM)Galen Wrote: The Willamette valley might go with you but I am not so certain about the rest of the state. Should Oregon leave with California then I am certain the process will be slow enough that I will be able to make it to Idaho before that happens.
I sure wish the progressives would stop talking about it and they'd begin the process of actually doing it. The best thing that could happen for America is a peaceful split.
Says a Trumpist in Minnesota.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Posts: 1,216
Threads: 29
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 06:57 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:19 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: 70% is actually pretty good. With retirees, stay-at-home parents, and students, that's fairly reasonable. It's higher than the national rate has ever been (since WWII at least)
Dude..Students and retirees aren't counted in the workforce participation rate. Neither are parents who stay at home by choice. The Labor department counts those who are working, or looking for work and includes those who aren't drawing unemployment insurance. What this means is that 3 out of every 10 Minnesotans who want a job don't have one.
Florida's current rate is somewhere in the 67% region which while higher than the national average is lower than it should be because tourism is the third largest industry. People up north who don't have jobs don't go to the beach or Disney on vacation.
You are completely wrong.
Quote:The labor force participation rate is the ratio between the labor force and the overall size of their cohort (national population of the same age range).
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Posts: 1,216
Threads: 29
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 07:08 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 06:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-10-2017, 05:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 04:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yup, I am sure all people leaving CA over the past few decades have been "low-status" whites, and everybody moving into CA have been high income people working in the knowledge economy.
No one is saying all.
However, generally speaking, the "professionals" don't flee, especially if they are not "Sons/Daughters of the Golden West" WASPS. Meanwhile it's our "49er" and the more recent Okie/Arkie descendants who tend to. Sure there are some higher status people among them. But generally, high status people at most will "flee" to Placer County or some such. They don't leave the state.
Meanwhile, lots of varied and highly talented people are moving in.
I look at everyone I am aware of in a network of a couple thousand people cutting across wide economic and demographic strata, and what I wrote is largely true. It's a microcosm of the Nation in many ways. The "traditional (WASP) white" middle income demographic are not really winning in the new economy and whatever new phase the US moved into late last century.
You'll flee. I've already seen you flee when things appeared to get a little tough. The so-called "professionals" are bunch of candy asses and the bulk of them will flee. They were a bunch candy asses during the 80's and they are still a bunch of candy asses today. Do you still have that old working class mentality or has the cozy blue life that you and so many others here have become accustomed to living softened (domesticated) you to much?
Here's the thing. Those folks who are moving in, the knowledge sector professionals will leave as soon as Governor Moonbeam implements his People's Republic. It is always the intellectuals that flee during socialist revolutions. Happened in Russia, China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba etc. So what is left is the people too poor to escape and they are largely the low IQ and low Rent types.
Brown is planning on making California a Marxist state? Since when? Can I get a link with a direct quote from him with his plans?
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Posts: 1,499
Threads: 16
Joined: May 2016
Since we're talking about a hypothetical "Calexit" snowflake..I'm taking liberties with Governor Moonbeam. But the man is just a few shades lighter than a Maoist. Former commie so I should know.
Posts: 1,499
Threads: 16
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 08:30 PM)Odin Wrote: (03-10-2017, 06:57 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:19 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: 70% is actually pretty good. With retirees, stay-at-home parents, and students, that's fairly reasonable. It's higher than the national rate has ever been (since WWII at least)
Dude..Students and retirees aren't counted in the workforce participation rate. Neither are parents who stay at home by choice. The Labor department counts those who are working, or looking for work and includes those who aren't drawing unemployment insurance. What this means is that 3 out of every 10 Minnesotans who want a job don't have one.
Florida's current rate is somewhere in the 67% region which while higher than the national average is lower than it should be because tourism is the third largest industry. People up north who don't have jobs don't go to the beach or Disney on vacation.
You are completely wrong.
Quote:The labor force participation rate is the ratio between the labor force and the overall size of their cohort (national population of the same age range).
Or as Guy pointed out I confused U3 unemployment with work force participation. Still if you have 3 in 10 able bodied adults under 65 not working....that is still recession levels.
Or am I wrong about Tourism being dependant on other people working else where and coming for vacation down here? Or am I wrong in that I'm talking to loads of people relocating from high tax states?
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(03-10-2017, 08:26 PM)Odin Wrote: (03-10-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-10-2017, 03:44 PM)Galen Wrote: The Willamette valley might go with you but I am not so certain about the rest of the state. Should Oregon leave with California then I am certain the process will be slow enough that I will be able to make it to Idaho before that happens.
I sure wish the progressives would stop talking about it and they'd begin the process of actually doing it. The best thing that could happen for America is a peaceful split.
Says a Trumpist in Minnesota.
A Trump supporter who didn't vote in the Republican primary.
|
