Oh California...

[Ragnarök_62]

Ok, probably an old GIF.  However, why do folks grow rice in California?  Really?!  Rice needs lots of water.  So, California, shoot for higher use plants like avocados and pistachios.  Unless, there's some odd water rights thingie or some long dusty, tax break for growing rice. It's like the federal tax break that farmers get here for not planting wheat. Yes, there's stupid tax breaks or a regulation that tells farmers to not plant stuff and the farmer gets reimbursed with a tax break, Line 105.  Enter value from EPA-1040 and copy that number here.

[beechnut79]

(06-27-2017, 10:47 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Ok, probably an old GIF.  However, why do folks grow rice in California?  Really?!  Rice needs lots of water.  So, California, shoot for higher use plants like avocados and pistachios.  Unless, there's some odd water rights thingie or some long dusty, tax break for growing rice. It's like the federal tax break that farmers get here for not planting wheat. Yes, there's stupid tax breaks or a regulation that tells farmers to not plant stuff and the farmer gets reimbursed with a tax break, Line 105.  Enter value from EPA-1040 and copy that number here.

[beechnut79]

The name of this thread was no doubt inspired by that classic Joni Mitchell song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvxx8cIdn4

But I believe I heard once that this kind of dictatorial approach to agriculture happened before, and was a contributing factor to the Dust Bowl. Here is a classic song inspired by the black clouds that appeared in the skies at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqiblXFlZuk

Do you believe we are in for another period when creativity is in the air and crackling with potential? Lord I sure would like to see one. I am a creative myself as I have written over a thousand song lyrics and have had 17 demoed to music. The one I consider to be my crown jewel is below.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/play...D=13315515

Full disclosure: this is a demo recording and not my actual voice. Arrangement is reminiscent of Dan Fogelberg material, IMO. Inspired by a conversation I had with my favorite librarian at my local library on her last day before retirement.

[Ragnarök_62]

(06-30-2018, 10:05 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: The name of this thread was no doubt inspired by that classic Joni Mitchell song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvxx8cIdn4

But I believe I heard once that this kind of dictatorial approach to agriculture happened before, and was a contributing factor to the Dust Bowl. Here is a classic song inspired by the black clouds that appeared in the skies at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqiblXFlZuk

Do you believe we are in for another period when creativity is in the air and crackling with potential? Lord I sure would like to see one. I am a creative myself as I have written over a thousand song lyrics and have had 17 demoed to music. The one I consider to be my crown jewel is below.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/play...D=13315515

Full disclosure: this is a demo recording and not my actual voice. Arrangement is reminiscent of Dan Fogelberg material, IMO. Inspired by a conversation I had with my favorite librarian at my local library on her last day before retirement.

Hmmm... I overlooked this for a long time until I found this:


See that purple spot in California, that's where y'all lucky devils way out in California can listen to that nice soft Okie accent without having to actually go to Oklahoma!

[Eric the Green]

Yeah, who needs red states? CA has all the agriculture we blues need!

[Eric the Green]

Kern County! One of CA's most Republican counties.

[Bill the Piper]

People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

[Ragnarök_62]

(07-09-2019, 01:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Kern County! One of CA's most Republican counties.

Yup, and it's an oily county as well.  


Oil wells and storage tanks; Midway-Sunset Oil Field, near Maricopa


Kern county, CA, just like home to us Okies.

[Hintergrund]

So all of these crops have to be transported all the way to the East Coast? What a waste. I mean, even carrots? Can't they be grown east of the Mississippi?

[David Horn]

(07-12-2019, 08:16 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: So all of these crops have to be transported all the way to the East Coast? What a waste. I mean, even carrots? Can't they be grown east of the Mississippi?

They are year-around crops in California nd Arizona, so it's a natural fit.  Growing them there and shipping them east is cheaper than the alternative.  Even fruits like peaches and oranges that were naturals in the east are less so now, because the farm land is too valuable to use for farming.

[Eric the Green]

(07-09-2019, 02:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

[David Horn]

(07-15-2019, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-09-2019, 02:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much. And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

[tg63]

(07-16-2019, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-15-2019, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-09-2019, 02:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much.  And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

[David Horn]

(07-16-2019, 11:18 AM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-15-2019, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-09-2019, 02:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much.  And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

[Eric the Green]

(07-16-2019, 12:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 11:18 AM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-15-2019, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-09-2019, 02:15 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People's Republic of California would be an agricultural superpower! Orion's Arm scenario has California as an independent nation in the next century, as well as Cascadia.

And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much.  And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

Yes, it will be quite an interesting nation! And I think Alberta has shown it can elect progressive leaders and probably will be willing to shut down its dirty tar-sands oil as the rest of blue nation wants.

[tg63]

(07-16-2019, 12:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 11:18 AM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-15-2019, 05:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And these two think so much alike that it would be great if they could merge. And Hawaii would come on board too.

And then, well, Oh Canada! We could join up with them too.

And then, there's the north-east coast. They could join Canada too! Voila! The blue superpower!

If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much.  And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

Yes, it will be quite an interesting nation! And I think Alberta has shown it can elect progressive leaders and probably will be willing to shut down its dirty tar-sands oil as the rest of blue nation wants.

ummm, no, I'm afraid not ... while they are trying / starting to diversify their economy their future is still very much tied to oil and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

[Eric the Green]

(07-22-2019, 12:13 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 11:18 AM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 10:47 AM)David Horn Wrote: If fracture occurs, I think the two coasts will reassemble as separate, though allied, entities.  It the upper Midwest didn't have the Dakotas blocking a linkage between the coasts, then a single horseshoe-shaped nation might happen.  A bifurcated one?  Not so much.  And don't count on Canada wanting to join the fray either.

It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

Yes, it will be quite an interesting nation! And I think Alberta has shown it can elect progressive leaders and probably will be willing to shut down its dirty tar-sands oil as the rest of blue nation wants.

ummm, no, I'm afraid not ... while they are trying / starting to diversify their economy their future is still very much tied to oil and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

The oil industry is going to dry up very fast once progressives are in charge. Alberta elected a liberal leader recently; they can do it again.

[David Horn]

(07-22-2019, 05:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-22-2019, 12:13 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 11:18 AM)tg63 Wrote: It's an interesting scenario ... I suspect that most of my country (Canada) would be willing to consider such an arrangement ... the notable exception being Alberta.

A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

Yes, it will be quite an interesting nation! And I think Alberta has shown it can elect progressive leaders and probably will be willing to shut down its dirty tar-sands oil as the rest of blue nation wants.

ummm, no, I'm afraid not ... while they are trying / starting to diversify their economy their future is still very much tied to oil and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

The oil industry is going to dry up very fast once progressives are in charge. Alberta elected a liberal leader recently; they can do it again.

I have to agree with tg63.  Having had more than a trivial involvement with Alberta, the province has more in common with Alaska or Texas than California.  Like Alaska, it's hard to walk away from vast wealth just sitting there, when oil tax revenues can things happen that wouldn't otherwise.

Alberta is huge and has a population of less than 4.5 Million. Oil pays the bills.

[Eric the Green]

(07-23-2019, 12:21 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-22-2019, 05:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-22-2019, 12:13 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 12:10 PM)David Horn Wrote: A link from California, through BC and the NW Territories Makes the horseshoe a lot bigger, that's for sure.  

Yes, it will be quite an interesting nation! And I think Alberta has shown it can elect progressive leaders and probably will be willing to shut down its dirty tar-sands oil as the rest of blue nation wants.

ummm, no, I'm afraid not ... while they are trying / starting to diversify their economy their future is still very much tied to oil and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

The oil industry is going to dry up very fast once progressives are in charge. Alberta elected a liberal leader recently; they can do it again.

I have to agree with tg63.  Having had more than a trivial involvement with Alberta, the province has more in common with Alaska or Texas than California.  Like Alaska, it's hard to walk away from vast wealth just sitting there, when oil tax revenues can things happen that wouldn't otherwise.

Alberta is huge and has a population of less than 4.5 Million. Oil pays the bills.

They will have to walk away from it. Oil will not be permitted as a fuel much longer, or it will be taxed to make it unprofitable. Especially such dirty oil as from tar sands. As I said, the oil industry is drying up. People won't be buying it, since cars will use other fuels. So although I know their traditions and cultures are more like Alaska and Texas, they won't have the oil money as a reason to keep them in the red state fold. At least, if the rest of Canada agrees to let the US coasts join, they won't be able to block it. They will be outvoted, and they won't secede from Canada to join Montana and Idaho and the rest of Red America.

[David Horn]

(07-24-2019, 11:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: They (Alberta) will have to walk away from it. Oil will not be permitted as a fuel much longer, or it will be taxed to make it unprofitable. Especially such dirty oil as from tar sands. As I said, the oil industry is drying up. People won't be buying it, since cars will use other fuels. So although I know their traditions and cultures are more like Alaska and Texas, they won't have the oil money as a reason to keep them in the red state fold. At least, if the rest of Canada agrees to let the US coasts join, they won't be able to block it. They will be outvoted, and they won't secede from Canada to join Montana and Idaho and the rest of Red America.

I think your optimism is misplaced. Yes, fossil fuels will be banned at some point, but it won't be soon. Someone somewhere will still buy the stuff until the entire world threatens them with extinction if they don't. I expect to see a mostly fossil free future in my lifetime, but total? Not likely.