It Feels Like The 90s

[TheNomad]

I will throw it out there.  Since I was alive and pretty much an adult by that time, right now feels an awfully lot like the late 80s/early90s when everything seems to have gotten turned on its head.  The familiarity I am speaking of I will direct that toward the current president having been an aberration (which I said a long time ago) and may be removed in the future election.  The climate right now is sort of on fire a little bit.  It seems many people are angry and not just seething but striking out in ALL ways as if a bridled, frustrated beast of the field trying to buck loose from chains.

Could it be everything will soon shift?

I cannot say what it may look like, but I think the most major indicator of public mood "feels" a certain way that cannot be immediately or authentically quantified. 

Since the reason I come to this thread is to exact the ideas of the 4th Turning and Generations books, I am using those ideas to "see".  This is something I can gauge because I was there and present at the end of the 1990s in America.  There is no real explanation for it even now.  It is a general mood that things are stagnant and need a cleansing.

Could this be a one presidency like Bush?

Based on the "flip-flop" patterns we make as humans (I believe is the basis of the Turning theories) we get too much of something, or not enough of something else, then we need to rotate back again.  It seems TO ME clear this is what's happening.  It feels like what I know of the late 1960s and 1970s (but was not "there" to make a coherent personal analysis even by memory), and feels kind of the same "mind" or "mood" as the 1990s, and now it feels that way again.

Genera outrage and panic, I think there are more of that <--- than the opposite with people being content and reasonable.  We are still building toward a more huge fluctuation, but I am not sure I can say what that looks like.  Perhaps just a REALLY strong version of what I have described, because I was nowhere close to existing in the last comparative Turning which was WWII and New Deal era.  I cannot speak to that because I was not there to know what anyone was "feeling".

[Ragnarök_62]

(09-25-2018, 02:27 PM)TheNomad Wrote:

Quote:I will throw it out there.  Since I was alive and pretty much an adult by that time, right now feels an awfully lot like the late 80s/early90s when everything seems to have gotten turned on its head.  The familiarity I am speaking of I will direct that toward the current president having been an aberration (which I said a long time ago) and may be removed in the future election.  The climate right now is sort of on fire a little bit.  It seems many people are angry and not just seething but striking out in ALL ways as if a bridled, frustrated beast of the field trying to buck loose from chains.

Things have gotten stuck.  There were the Rodney King riots in LA and the suchlike. The only change I see is superficial crap like SJW's and "outrage shrieking".  The participation trophy generation is all grown up and has no place to go.

Quote:Could it be everything will soon shift?

Yes, it will happen when something big breaks.

Quote:I cannot say what it may look like, but I think the most major indicator of public mood "feels" a certain way that cannot be immediately or authentically quantified. 

If it's like the change from the mid 1960's which I can remember to the late 60's, change comes as warp speed. Music, public discourse, legislation, all change.  Important things like flammable rivers, wars, the economy, etc. attract attention and stuff actually gets done to address them.  This isn't the case now of course. We still have long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction.

Quote:Since the reason I come to this thread is to exact the ideas of the 4th Turning and Generations books, I am using those ideas to "see".  This is something I can gauge because I was there and present at the end of the 1990s in America.  There is no real explanation for it even now.  It is a general mood that things are stagnant and need a cleansing.

Some folks think things are a stagnant swamp, other, not so much.

Quote:Could this be a one presidency like Bush?

Not at all. We all support the agenda by our assent, whether quiet or noisily. The agenda is tinkle down economics, more goodies for the MIC, and allowing the racket economy to continue. Folks could do something if they wanted to.  Why not get back to the garden and reject con$umerism? Do folks really need the new IShit? Do folks have to act like a herd of wild animals on Black Friday? Do folks go into debt for ego sake? The only way that stuff stops is if folks stop worshiping at the alter of Mammon. Think about it. The less crap you buy, the less time you have to spend at some mind numbing minimum wage job.

Be a minimalist.

Quote:Based on the "flip-flop" patterns we make as humans (I believe is the basis of the Turning theories) we get too much of something, or not enough of something else, then we need to rotate back again.  It seems TO ME clear this is what's happening.  It feels like what I know of the late 1960s and 1970s (but was not "there" to make a coherent personal analysis even by memory), and feels kind of the same "mind" or "mood" as the 1990s, and now it feels that way again.

Things feel nothing like the 70's.  That's easy. Everything is new. It was a great time to be a kid. I was young and the age was young, reborn.





Imagine...  Being a kid riding shotgun in one of older cousin's car, no seat belt, with 2 other cousins in back, riding 90 miles an hour down a dirt road.  That's something for reflections!  And the music coming in on the radio just like the vid. It was an awesome time to be alive.  

Quote:Genera outrage and panic, I think there are more of that <--- than the opposite with people being content and reasonable.  We are still building toward a more huge fluctuation, but I am not sure I can say what that looks like.  Perhaps just a REALLY strong version of what I have described, because I was nowhere close to existing in the last comparative Turning which was WWII and New Deal era.  I cannot speak to that because I was not there to know what anyone was "feeling".

It's a 4T, not a 2T.  However the 4T will be a panicced variant of the 2T. You'll know it's here with a change in tune and stuff starts moving real fast.  The other problem with 4T's is that stuff can end up being really fucked up.

[Eric the Green]

You know, I'm the prophet, and I know what's gonna happen

Yes, the 2T was awesome, and change came fast for a while. It was pretty great at times. People spoke out; problems were addressed. The 90s seemed really tame by comparison; some outrage, some cultural outcroppings, and then just a little change, and then the increasing polarization that had begun in the 60s, and has reached its climax in our 4T.

We have been stuck for a long time in "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." What I have predicted for decades is now about to come to pass. Just 16 months and the 2020s will be upon us. It's hard to believe how fast the years have passed; to me the 1980s are still like some future that never came. But I have written for a long time (you may know, if you have my book) that the 2020s will be a whirlwind. The standpatters will be pushed aside in nothing flat, I wrote back in 1993 and published in 1997. So here we are, about to arrive.

An awakening is happening. Michael Moore has laid out the challenge this week. The Parkland kids gave it the best voice, along with Matt Post, at one of the largest rallies ever; topped only by the 2003 anti-Iraq War protests and the women's marches against Trump. Obama has given the word this month. As the Flight 93 passengers might have said, it's time to roll. All hands on deck. We are rising up! like a phoenix from the fire.

The trump presidency is a wake up call for all who want to restore our country and get progress moving again, and reverse the slide into his swampy banana republic. Time to end the "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." Time to do what George Carlin despaired of us ever doing; to actually notice how we are getting screwed every day. "It is a general mood that things are stagnant and need a cleansing." And I know what it will look like, and exactly when it will look like it; I just need to describe it in my new book as soon as I can, as best I can.

[Anthony '58]

It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

[David Horn]

(08-11-2019, 08:22 AM)Anthony Wrote: It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

That's becoming a more common feeling than it ever should.  To some extent, I share it too.

[Anthony '58]

Monday's shindig in Richmond, VA should be, as Arte Johnson said, Verrrrry interesting.

[Eric the Green]

(08-11-2019, 08:22 AM)Anthony Wrote: It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

It does feel like that. But be prepared for this to be more like 1856. Things have longer to run, I think.

Things will be in such turmoil after the election this Fall that it will seem like 1860. But my detection methods indicate that the early 2020s could actually be quite constructive and still relatively orderly, while the later 2020s could be full of conflicts as well as progress. Obviously, the early 2020s will be better if a Democrat can pull off a win in 2020. We'll see, though

[Eric the Green]

(09-27-2018, 12:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: You know, I'm the prophet, and I know what's gonna happen

Yes, the 2T was awesome, and change came fast for a while. It was pretty great at times. People spoke out; problems were addressed. The 90s seemed really tame by comparison; some outrage, some cultural outcroppings, and then just a little change, and then the increasing polarization that had begun in the 60s, and has reached its climax in our 4T.

We have been stuck for a long time in "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." What I have predicted for decades is now about to come to pass. Just 16 months and the 2020s will be upon us. It's hard to believe how fast the years have passed; to me the 1980s are still like some future that never came. But I have written for a long time (you may know, if you have my book) that the 2020s will be a whirlwind. The standpatters will be pushed aside in nothing flat, I wrote back in 1993 and published in 1997. So here we are, about to arrive.

An awakening is happening. Michael Moore has laid out the challenge this week. The Parkland kids gave it the best voice, along with Matt Post, at one of the largest rallies ever; topped only by the 2003 anti-Iraq War protests and the women's marches against Trump. Obama has given the word this month. As the Flight 93 passengers might have said, it's time to roll. All hands on deck. We are rising up! like a phoenix from the fire.

The trump presidency is a wake up call for all who want to restore our country and get progress moving again, and reverse the slide into his swampy banana republic. Time to end the "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." Time to do what George Carlin despaired of us ever doing; to actually notice how we are getting screwed every day. "It is a general mood that things are stagnant and need a cleansing." And I know what it will look like, and exactly when it will look like it; I just need to describe it in my new book as soon as I can, as best I can.

My new book is out and available now. See http://philosopherswheel.com/hna.html

There are many indications that the pendulum will finally swing and progress will start. Unfortunately we have to depend on Biden, who is not as young as he once was and is too corporate, or Sanders, also an old codger who may be too far left to appeal in swing states. But either one of them can win, although I can't predict that they will.

The astrological indicators of a new progressive decade are legion, and they are not the only such indicators. Just demographics alone will make it increasingly hard for the old reactionaries to hold on.

The fourth turning means a crisis, possible war or wars, both domestic (civil) and foreign (terrorists). This crisis has always resulted in a victory for the progressive side. The 4th turning in modern times has been indicated by the return of the outer 3 planets to their original positions when the nation and the colony were founded (1776, 1607). Uranus returns every 84 years to this original position at the nation's birth. It is due in 2027. Neptune is making a half-way return to oppose its original position in 2022. Pluto returns for the first time since the Revolution, also in 2022. Pluto then enters the progressive sign Aquarius in 2024 for the first time since the revolutions in America and France.

Neptune will also enter the sign Aries in 2025-26. This starts a new 164-year zodiac cycle. The last time Neptune entered Aries, Ft. Sumpter was attacked and conquered on that very day. Thus, another civil war may begin when Neptune enters Aries again. It might not be a full scale war, but a temporary rebellion. But violence cannot be ruled out. Neptune in Aries means that the confused muddle we are in now under Pisces will clear up and people will be ready to take action on a furious scale.

The 3 outer planets will make a very-close, very-rare, beneficent double sextile (each planet 60 degrees apart) in the mid-2020s.

Another great cycle is returning too, indicated by Jupiter and Saturn. For the first time in about 700 years, this conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which happens every 20 years, will happen in the progressive sign Aquarius in Dec. 2020. This conjunction often signals a change in the party in power, and has corresponded to many changes of dynasty in earlier times. This time, it's also a shift from earth to air signs over the next 200 years, and since air rules mind and communication, it's an eloquent symbol of the shift from the industrial to the information age that's going on.

Every 60 years, Jupiter aligns with Saturn with the planets then moving into Aquarius and then into Pisces and Aries. These have been the most progressive decades in history: the 1960s, 1900s, 1840s and 1780s.

When Saturn alone returns to Aquarius every 30 years, it means a progressive decade on a minor scale, like the 1990s, 1930s, 1870s.

For the first time in modern history, the Jupiter-Saturn cycle of progressive decades coincides with the 4th turning's climax and the outer-planet returns.

The return of the great crisis, and the return of progress, happen together in the 2020s.


Much is needed in our new reform era:

Repeal gerrymandering and reduce the filibuster.

Repeal Citizens United, pass public campaign financing, require licensed media to provide free time and space for candidates, limit contributions from all sources, restrict lobbying.

End the 2 party duopoly and voting for lesser of two evils with ranked-choice voting and proportional representation.

Raise taxes on the wealthy, and return social security savings to social security to reduce the debt and reduce inequality in the economy among classes.

Raise minimum wages and provide basic income security for all. End trickle-down economics and its deceptive slogans of freedom as "less government" and "the non-aggression principle." Require corporations to serve and contribute to society in their charter. Invest prudently in aid for housing to bring down prices.

Medicare for All. Lower prescription drug prices. Invest in disease control again. Restore government departments that have been decimated by Trump.

End voter suppression schemes. Repeal the electoral college.

Require civics to be taught in all licensed schools, public and private.

Consider carbon taxes. Regulate auto emissions so that gasoline is phased out in 10 years. Regulate and end coal emissions and provide for transition to renewables. Invest in subsidies if necessary to further encourage the transition. Reform farming practices and restore family farms by restricting the size of corporate farms.

Effective gun control. Defeat the expected violent revolt against it.

I see some chance for artistic revival in the 2020s-- unusual for a 4T. Watch the year 2022.

If necessary, consider packing the supreme court if it blocks reforms. Consider dividing the country between red and blue states. Consider ending the presidency as we know it and its war-making power and switch to a parliamentary system like all other countries have instead of our elected-king system.

[Warren Dew]

(08-11-2019, 08:22 AM)Anthony Wrote: It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

1859 was highly polarized over the issue of slavery.  What's the single issue of polarization today?

[Anthony '58]

(01-18-2020, 06:24 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(08-11-2019, 08:22 AM)Anthony Wrote: It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

1859 was highly polarized over the issue of slavery.  What's the single issue of polarization today?

As in 1859, race, expressed primarily by immigration, is #1 - but the old Culture Wars standbys of abortion and homosexuality are still very much in play.

And then there is this:

https://religionnews.com/2020/01/17/we-c...tionalism/

[beechnut79]

(01-18-2020, 06:24 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(08-11-2019, 08:22 AM)Anthony Wrote: It feels just like the 1850s.

I'll carry it one step further: 2019 feels just like 1859.

1859 was highly polarized over the issue of slavery.  What's the single issue of polarization today?

I would say that it is climate change. But the whole blue vs. red acid test is heating up though it hasn’t yet produced a regeneracy.

[beechnut79]

(01-18-2020, 01:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-27-2018, 12:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: You know, I'm the prophet, and I know what's gonna happen

Yes, the 2T was awesome, and change came fast for a while. It was pretty great at times. People spoke out; problems were addressed. The 90s seemed really tame by comparison; some outrage, some cultural outcroppings, and then just a little change, and then the increasing polarization that had begun in the 60s, and has reached its climax in our 4T.

We have been stuck for a long time in "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." What I have predicted for decades is now about to come to pass. Just 16 months and the 2020s will be upon us. It's hard to believe how fast the years have passed; to me the 1980s are still like some future that never came. But I have written for a long time (you may know, if you have my book) that the 2020s will be a whirlwind. The standpatters will be pushed aside in nothing flat, I wrote back in 1993 and published in 1997. So here we are, about to arrive.

An awakening is happening. Michael Moore has laid out the challenge this week. The Parkland kids gave it the best voice, along with Matt Post, at one of the largest rallies ever; topped only by the 2003 anti-Iraq War protests and the women's marches against Trump. Obama has given the word this month. As the Flight 93 passengers might have said, it's time to roll. All hands on deck. We are rising up! like a phoenix from the fire.

The trump presidency is a wake up call for all who want to restore our country and get progress moving again, and reverse the slide into his swampy banana republic. Time to end the "long assed wars, a shitty economy for most folks, and environmental destruction." Time to do what George Carlin despaired of us ever doing; to actually notice how we are getting screwed every day. "It is a general mood that things are stagnant and need a cleansing." And I know what it will look like, and exactly when it will look like it; I just need to describe it in my new book as soon as I can, as best I can.

My new book is out and available now. See http://philosopherswheel.com/hna.html

There are many indications that the pendulum will finally swing and progress will start. Unfortunately we have to depend on Biden, who is not as young as he once was and is too corporate, or Sanders, also an old codger who may be too far left to appeal in swing states. But either one of them can win, although I can't predict that they will.

The astrological indicators of a new progressive decade are legion, and they are not the only such indicators. Just demographics alone will make it increasingly hard for the old reactionaries to hold on.

The fourth turning means a crisis, possible war or wars, both domestic (civil) and foreign (terrorists). This crisis has always resulted in a victory for the progressive side. The 4th turning in modern times has been indicated by the return of the outer 3 planets to their original positions when the nation and the colony were founded (1776, 1607). Uranus returns every 84 years to this original position at the nation's birth. It is due in 2027. Neptune is making a half-way return to oppose its original position in 2022. Pluto returns for the first time since the Revolution, also in 2022. Pluto then enters the progressive sign Aquarius in 2024 for the first time since the revolutions in America and France.

Neptune will also enter the sign Aries in 2025-26. This starts a new 164-year zodiac cycle. The last time Neptune entered Aries, Ft. Sumpter was attacked and conquered on that very day. Thus, another civil war may begin when Neptune enters Aries again. It might not be a full scale war, but a temporary rebellion. But violence cannot be ruled out. Neptune in Aries means that the confused muddle we are in now under Pisces will clear up and people will be ready to take action on a furious scale.

The 3 outer planets will make a very-close, very-rare, beneficent double sextile (each planet 60 degrees apart) in the mid-2020s.

Another great cycle is returning too, indicated by Jupiter and Saturn. For the first time in about 700 years, this conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which happens every 20 years, will happen in the progressive sign Aquarius in Dec. 2020. This conjunction often signals a change in the party in power, and has corresponded to many changes of dynasty in earlier times. This time, it's also a shift from earth to air signs over the next 200 years, and since air rules mind and communication, it's an eloquent symbol of the shift from the industrial to the information age that's going on.

Every 60 years, Jupiter aligns with Saturn with the planets then moving into Aquarius and then into Pisces and Aries. These have been the most progressive decades in history: the 1960s, 1900s, 1840s and 1780s.

When Saturn alone returns to Aquarius every 30 years, it means a progressive decade on a minor scale, like the 1990s, 1930s, 1870s.

For the first time in modern history, the Jupiter-Saturn cycle of progressive decades coincides with the 4th turning's climax and the outer-planet returns.

The return of the great crisis, and the return of progress, happen together in the 2020s.


Much is needed in our new reform era:

Repeal gerrymandering and reduce the filibuster.

Repeal Citizens United, pass public campaign financing, require licensed media to provide free time and space for candidates, limit contributions from all sources, restrict lobbying.

End the 2 party duopoly and voting for lesser of two evils with ranked-choice voting and proportional representation.

Raise taxes on the wealthy, and return social security savings to social security to reduce the debt and reduce inequality in the economy among classes.

Raise minimum wages and provide basic income security for all. End trickle-down economics and its deceptive slogans of freedom as "less government" and "the non-aggression principle." Require corporations to serve and contribute to society in their charter. Invest prudently in aid for housing to bring down prices.

Medicare for All. Lower prescription drug prices. Invest in disease control again. Restore government departments that have been decimated by Trump.

End voter suppression schemes. Repeal the electoral college.

Require civics to be taught in all licensed schools, public and private.

Consider carbon taxes. Regulate auto emissions so that gasoline is phased out in 10 years. Regulate and end coal emissions and provide for transition to renewables. Invest in subsidies if necessary to further encourage the transition. Reform farming practices and restore family farms by restricting the size of corporate farms.

Effective gun control. Defeat the expected violent revolt against it.

I see some chance for artistic revival in the 2020s-- unusual for a 4T. Watch the year 2022.

If necessary, consider packing the supreme court if it blocks reforms. Consider dividing the country between red and blue states. Consider ending the presidency as we know it and its war-making power and switch to a parliamentary system like all other countries have instead of our elected-king system.

Have you yet made a prediction as to how much of that laundry list will actually be accomplished by the turn of the next decade?

[Mickey123]

(01-18-2020, 01:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-27-2018, 12:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Consider dividing the country between red and blue states.

If you look at a county map, you get a better sense of what's actually going on.  How would we possibly string all these blue city areas together to make a country?

[Anthony '58]

Every county in Massachusetts is blue.

[David Horn]

(01-19-2020, 12:34 AM)Mickey123 Wrote:

(01-18-2020, 01:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-27-2018, 12:35 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Consider dividing the country between red and blue states.

If you look at a county map, you get a better sense of what's actually going on.  How would we possibly string all these blue city areas together to make a country?

Rework the map to show counties by population rather than geographical size, and the problem changes dramatically.  Sorry, but a county with very few people is not in a position to dictate to an adjoining one with 10 times as many, so some Red counties will become part of Blue America.  Of course, the opposite will also occur, but not nearly so often.

[Ghost]

Is it because nostalgia cycles tend to go for around ~22-25 years?

[Anthony '58]

If we're gonna divide the country strictly by states, assuming the projections pan out and the Democrats flip rapidly-Hispanicizing Arizona in November, all you would really have to do is to trade Virginia for the northernmost tier of counties in North Dakota, Montana and Idaho (which the red side might actually welcome since it would insulate them from the Canadian border, just as Arizona turning blue would insulate them from the Mexican border, except for the Rio Grande, which they could easily defend), or, if the Democrats flip Florida, the blues give the reds Florida instead.