How conservative are Homelanders really?

[Ghost]

This includes Dark Activists/Younger Millennials born from 1997 to 2002 too, as most sources group them as being Generation Z (the entire span) or Zillennials that lean Generation Z (the case for 1997-1998 or 1997-1999, depending on the person or source).

Since around 2015, I'm hearing this whole thing about them being "the most conservative generation since WWII" (unlikely, but not as unlikely as the other claim) or that they're going full-blown ethnonationalist/racial identitarian/Generation Zyklon (which seems extremely and laughably unlikely).

And then on other sources, they're said to be more liberal than even Millennials, especially on social views.

[David Horn]

(04-02-2020, 03:32 PM)Ghost Wrote: This includes Dark Activists/Younger Millennials born from 1997 to 2002 too, as most sources group them as being Generation Z (the entire span) or Zillennials that lean Generation Z (the case for 1997-1998 or 1997-1999, depending on the person or source).

Since around 2015, I'm hearing this whole thing about them being "the most conservative generation since WWII" (unlikely, but not as unlikely as the other claim) or that they're going full-blown ethnonationalist/racial identitarian/Generation Zyklon (which seems extremely and laughably unlikely).

And then on other sources, they're said to be more liberal than even Millennials, especially on social views.

They may be socially conservative, but politically conservative is unlikely. They have a front row seat to the idiocy of the moment.  It's impossible that it has no impact on them today, and moreso in the future.  We've been lead far into the 4T by the overly cautious and true reprobates.  It's hard seeing this as embracing of our young in any positive way -- and they know it.

I know from personal experience that formative events tend to amplify with time.

[Ghost]

(04-04-2020, 08:08 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-02-2020, 03:32 PM)Ghost Wrote: This includes Dark Activists/Younger Millennials born from 1997 to 2002 too, as most sources group them as being Generation Z (the entire span) or Zillennials that lean Generation Z (the case for 1997-1998 or 1997-1999, depending on the person or source).

Since around 2015, I'm hearing this whole thing about them being "the most conservative generation since WWII" (unlikely, but not as unlikely as the other claim) or that they're going full-blown ethnonationalist/racial identitarian/Generation Zyklon (which seems extremely and laughably unlikely).

And then on other sources, they're said to be more liberal than even Millennials, especially on social views.

They may be socially conservative, but politically conservative is unlikely. They have a front row seat to the idiocy of the moment.  It's impossible that it has no impact on them today, and moreso in the future.  We've been lead far into the 4T by the overly cautious and true reprobates.  It's hard seeing this as embracing of our young in any positive way -- and they know it.

I know from personal experience that formative events tend to amplify with time.

Socially conservative meaning pro-gun/pro-life/pro-God (like the stereotypical conservative) or anti-Semitic/opposes miscegenation/anti-LGBT (like the alt-right)?

[David Horn]

(04-04-2020, 08:33 AM)Ghost Wrote:

(04-04-2020, 08:08 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-02-2020, 03:32 PM)Ghost Wrote: This includes Dark Activists/Younger Millennials born from 1997 to 2002 too, as most sources group them as being Generation Z (the entire span) or Zillennials that lean Generation Z (the case for 1997-1998 or 1997-1999, depending on the person or source).

Since around 2015, I'm hearing this whole thing about them being "the most conservative generation since WWII" (unlikely, but not as unlikely as the other claim) or that they're going full-blown ethnonationalist/racial identitarian/Generation Zyklon (which seems extremely and laughably unlikely).

And then on other sources, they're said to be more liberal than even Millennials, especially on social views.

They may be socially conservative, but politically conservative is unlikely. They have a front row seat to the idiocy of the moment.  It's impossible that it has no impact on them today, and moreso in the future.  We've been lead far into the 4T by the overly cautious and true reprobates.  It's hard seeing this as embracing of our young in any positive way -- and they know it.

I know from personal experience that formative events tend to amplify with time.

Socially conservative meaning pro-gun/pro-life/pro-God (like the stereotypical conservative) or anti-Semitic/opposes miscegenation/anti-LGBT (like the alt-right)?

I think it will be the former, since the openness of all generations will be a must in a all-minority society.  I'll tell myself that, at least.  I won't be around to know otherwise, unless things change radically and soon.

[Camz]

As a Homelander, me nor any of my friends are conservative, and that ranges from people born from 1996-2006(?). The youngest of my friends is gay in a country that generally hates LGBTQs. I'm the only Catholic out of my friends too; they're either Atheist (by a long shot), Jewish, or Muslim if I recall correctly. A lot of them, even one younger than me, are super into social justice, tweeting and retweeting about it.

A few years ago, I did have a cringey anti-feminist phase, where I denied the wage gap and debated with "feminazis" (modern super-feminists who dislike men). My best friend, meanwhile, had a social-justice-warrior Tumblr account at the time. I really don't know what to think of modern feminism anymore.

It's mostly cuspers and older who are extremely liberal, but I haven't seen much from definite Homelanders, aside from two friends.

As for me, I'm pro-Bernie, anti-gun, and pro-trans rights, but I'm semi pro-life (but pro-choice if they were sexually assaulted) AND religious (to an extent- I believe in God and heaven but also in evolution and the big bang, and I'm not going to church every Sunday when I'm an adult)

[Cocoa Puff]

(04-07-2020, 02:16 PM)Camz Wrote: As a Homelander, me nor any of my friends are conservative, and that ranges from people born from 1996-2006(?). The youngest of my friends is gay in a country that generally hates LGBTQs. I'm the only Catholic out of my friends too; they're either Atheist (by a long shot), Jewish, or Muslim if I recall correctly. A lot of them, even one younger than me, are super into social justice, tweeting and retweeting about it.

A few years ago, I did have a cringey anti-feminist phase, where I denied the wage gap and debated with "feminazis" (modern super-feminists who dislike men). My best friend, meanwhile, had a social-justice-warrior Tumblr account at the time. I really don't know what to think of modern feminism anymore.

It's mostly cuspers and older who are extremely liberal, but I haven't seen much from definite Homelanders, aside from two friends.

As for me, I'm pro-Bernie, anti-gun, and pro-trans rights, but I'm semi pro-life (but pro-choice if they were sexually assaulted) AND religious (to an extent- I believe in God and heaven but also in evolution and the big bang, and I'm not going to church every Sunday when I'm an adult)

You have any Christian friends?

[Blazkovitz]

(04-07-2020, 02:16 PM)Camz Wrote: As a Homelander, me nor any of my friends are conservative, and that ranges from people born from 1996-2006(?). The youngest of my friends is gay in a country that generally hates LGBTQs. I'm the only Catholic out of my friends too; they're either Atheist (by a long shot), Jewish, or Muslim if I recall correctly. A lot of them, even one younger than me, are super into social justice, tweeting and retweeting about it.

Social justice will be the focus of the next 1T's conformity. It is a moral philosophy with only one commandment: Thou shall not be a bully. Though I admit they approach their only commandment with the solemnity of Pharisees!

Quote: As for me, I'm pro-Bernie, anti-gun, and pro-trans rights, but I'm semi pro-life (but pro-choice if they were sexually assaulted) AND religious (to an extent- I believe in God and heaven but also in evolution and the big bang, and I'm not going to church every Sunday when I'm an adult)

I am also anti-gun. I support death penalty for murder and worst sexual offences. I'm not fond of the LGBT agenda. They have right to their private life, but they shouldn't be allowed to adopt children or push propaganda like the "gay gene". I tend to be pro-choice, but I think partial birth abortion is an abomination. I support environmentalism, unless it's an extreme form that wants to limit individual consumption. Restrictions on Big Business are welcome, though I don't know if Bernie's ideas don't go to far (probably they do). I oppose prostitution and porn because they are degrading to women, so I agree with radical feminists here. I definitely believe in evolution and big bang because I'm an agnostic. I'm also a supporter of speeding up human evolution using biotechnology.

Is such a combination of views known among the Homelanders?

[Camz]

(04-08-2020, 12:07 AM)Cocoa Puff Wrote: You have any Christian friends?

None that I stay in touch with. In fact, two friends like shoving atheism up people's throats, and they're both my age.

[Camz]

(04-08-2020, 04:06 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: I am also anti-gun. I support death penalty for murder and worst sexual offences. I'm not fond of the LGBT agenda. They have right to their private life, but they shouldn't be allowed to adopt children or push propaganda like the "gay gene". I tend to be pro-choice, but I think partial birth abortion is an abomination. I support environmentalism, unless it's an extreme form that wants to limit individual consumption. Restrictions on Big Business are welcome, though I don't know if Bernie's ideas don't go to far (probably they do). I oppose prostitution and porn because they are degrading to women, so I agree with radical feminists here. I definitely believe in evolution and big bang because I'm an agnostic. I'm also a supporter of speeding up human evolution using biotechnology.

Is such a combination of views known amoung the Homelanders?

First, I ask that you take my replies with a grain of salt, because:

a) The area I live in is VERY progressive, especially with schools pushing this (a few years ago I was shocked to learn racism was a big problem in other parts of the country, I can't even remember a time I've ever experienced it and both of my parents are South American immigrants)
b) I generally only stay in certain parts of the internet, which are mostly fandoms, with ships which mean pairing characters with each other, and headcanons which add quirks to characters, and with the millennial-dominated internet.. you can imagine fandoms can get very very progressive. Not saying I agree nor disagree with anything I may be implying.

In general, I feel like us early-Homelanders agree with late-Millennials in nearly everything.

Quote:I am also anti-gun.

I don't see this talked about much at all, but if I had to guess, Homelanders are probably anti-gun or neutral.

Quote:I support death penalty for murder and worst sexual offences.

Yes, Homelanders would probably agree.

Quote:I'm not fond of the LGBT agenda. They have right to their private life, but they shouldn't be allowed to adopt children or push propaganda like the "gay gene".

I had one anti-LGBTQ friend (his reasoning had something to do with AIDS, I don't remember the details). I can't name any other Homelanders who feel the same way. A lot of us are pretty passionate about gay and trans rights, and a lot of my friends would block you/fight you for thinking they shouldn't adopt children. Now that I think about it... every single one of my current Homelander friends who I talk to at least once a month has shown some form of approval toward same-sex relationships.

Quote: I tend to be pro-choice, but I think partial birth abortion is an abomination.

I can't recall any situation where a friend said something that's pro-life, and I have heard pro-choice comments.

Quote:I support environmentalism, unless it's an extreme form that wants to limit individual consumption.

We definitely agree with environmentalism, even my 2010-born sister.

Quote:Restrictions on Big Business are welcome, though I don't know if Bernie's ideas don't go to far (probably they do).

Not really sure about this one. The only time I saw a Homelander(?) said something bad about Bernie was on r/GenZ. We in general love Bernie, so I guess that implies we like restrictions on Big Business? I do.

Quote:I oppose prostitution and porn because they are degrading to women, so I agree with radical feminists here.

A few of my friends are indulged in hentai (porn but anime characters drawn by artists) and probably disagree. But I do see some cuspers agreeing with you. We do make fun of radical feminists I think.

Quote:I definitely believe in evolution and big bang because I'm an agnostic.

In my experience, every single Homelander does too.

Quote:I'm also a supporter of speeding up human evolution using biotechnology.

I'll get back to you on that one.

[Cocoa Puff]

(04-08-2020, 04:06 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: I definitely believe in evolution and big bang because I'm an agnostic.

That is interesting. I do not believe in evolution or the big bang, but rather that God created the world in six days. I am a Christian who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[Blazkovitz]

(04-08-2020, 02:05 PM)Camz Wrote: We do make fun of radical feminists I think.

They can get ridiculous... I remember British radfems destroying weighing scales because they fought for women's right to be obese. In general they think a man cannot criticise a woman's behaviour for any reason. They will use terms like body-shaming, slut-shaming, etc. which are just silly. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, period. And obesity is a disease, period.

I just agree with their stance on prostitution and porn, which is also in line with Christian morality. In general despite being an agnostic I think Christian morality is one of the best moral systems that ever existed on this planet.

I also agree the transgender community re-imposes certain standards of femininity which are in line with regressive commercial "raunch culture".

***

Also, what are Homelanders' views on spreading democracy and the War on Terror?

[Warren Dew]

(04-08-2020, 02:05 PM)Camz Wrote: a) The area I live in is VERY progressive, especially with schools pushing this (a few years ago I was shocked to learn racism was a big problem in other parts of the country, I can't even remember a time I've ever experienced it and both of my parents are South American immigrants)

You learned from your school, or you learned from experiencing it?

[Isoko]

My own opinion is that the Zoomers are more than likely going to be a centrist generation. They won't be left wing as that is the established culture and the kids obviously are going to rebel. But they won't be full on alt right either. However expect with coming problems, this generation might be slightly tinted towards something alt rightish. So I'm guessing a sort of centre right leaning for the majority with a hey, your gay, that's cool, just don't shove your culture at me bra type of mindset.

[Ghost]

(04-14-2020, 02:26 PM)Isoko Wrote: My own opinion is that the Zoomers are more than likely going to be a centrist generation. They won't be left wing as that is the established culture and the kids obviously are going to rebel. But they won't be full on alt right either. However expect with coming problems, this generation might be slightly tinted towards something alt rightish. So I'm guessing a sort of centre right leaning for the majority with a hey, your gay, that's cool, just don't shove your culture at me bra type of mindset.

I think (I could be wrong) it seems more like a gender thing.

Most female Gen Zers seem more left-leaning than ever before according to my observations online and in real life. The males seem more center or center-right, but not alt-right. I'm not including the guys who have "Groyper" avatars on Twitter because there's a high likelihood they're probably bots or trolls. The only ones I can really judge though are probably those born in 1997-2002 because they seem to be the ones "making their mark" now, and by that I mean the 18+ Gen Zers.

Alt-right you mean like Milo/Charlie Kirk/Steven Crowder (more like a regular conservative) or like Richard Spencer/Mike Enoch/The Golden One (the actual fringe right)?

If Gen Z was really as alt-right as some think, people like Billie Eilish, Lil Nas X, and The Weeknd won't be charting on Billboard. You'd most likely see NSBM like Absurd, Graveland, and M8L8TH or folky type of music taking over. Half of the Asgardsrei attendees seem to be Millennial and the other half seems to be Gen Z aside from the band members like Hendrik Mobus (born 1976) or Alexei Levkin (born 1984), but I doubt even 500 people showed up, and this includes all of the bands involved. I don't really see that happening in the future. Most Gen Zers don't even have a clue who you're talking about if you bring up about Hendrik Mobus. I probably can't imagine an average Gen Zer being that fringe enough to attend Asgardsrei in Ukraine or join racial identitarian groups.

The regular conservative types seem more Christian, right-wing in economics, and centrist on social issues.
The fringe right types usually tend to be folkish pagans, left-wing in economics, and ethnonationalist/anti-LGBT.

[Isoko]

Hi Ghost,

Yeah I tend to think this way as well although I would still say the females of this cohort have the potentiality to become more centrist. I think the females will be more centre left and the males centre right.

Yeah, in regards to the Alt Right, I would definitely say the former. Obviously there might be the odd sprinklings of the latter but obviously the former is going to be the dominant outlet for any right wing angst. The problem with the latter is that it just went down that old white power rabbit hole and no one is going to touch that.

As for the Golden One, to be honest from my own observations of him, he actually is not that extreme. I'd sort of place him in the middle of the alt lite and alt right. Obviously he is sympathetic to white nationalism but compared to others is pretty moderate. Unless he has changed in recent years that is.

As for music tastes - let's just be honest here. The mainstream of any generation listens to the trash because everyone else is listening to it. It's herd mentality. So in that essence, compared to previous generations and sub cultures, the Zoomers are pretty conformist in that regard.

[Ghost]

(04-14-2020, 04:08 PM)Isoko Wrote: Hi Ghost,

Yeah I tend to think this way as well although I would still say the females of this cohort have the potentiality to become more centrist. I think the females will be more centre left and the males centre right.

Yeah, in regards to the Alt Right, I would definitely say the former. Obviously there might be the odd sprinklings of the latter but obviously the former is going to be the dominant outlet for any right wing angst. The problem with the latter is that it just went down that old white power rabbit hole and no one is going to touch that.

As for the Golden One, to be honest from my own observations of him, he actually is not that extreme. I'd sort of place him in the middle of the alt lite and alt right. Obviously he is sympathetic to white nationalism but compared to others is pretty moderate. Unless he has changed in recent years that is.

As for music tastes - let's just be honest here. The mainstream of any generation listens to the trash because everyone else is listening to it. It's herd mentality. So in that essence, compared to previous generations and sub cultures, the Zoomers are pretty conformist in that regard.

I got really confused when you said "alt-right" because nowadays it usually refers to my latter, even though some may think it's both or only the former.

The Golden One is one of those folkish pagans who probably has a view in paganism that is race-based and blends his pagan views with ultranationalism, which is exclusively a fringe right trait. Same goes for Survive the Jive, Varg, McNallen, and others - they're all clearly fringe right.

The middle of the "alt-lite" and the "alt-right" in my opinion is someone like Lauren Southern. Anything more extreme seems more fringe right (think of people like Stefan Molyneux or Jared Taylor), and anything less extreme than that seems more "alt-lite" (think of people like Paul Joseph Watson).

Safely fringe right includes people like Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, and basically any racial identitarian leader out there (Patrick Casey and that Sellner guy).
Safely more like your "average Joe conservative" includes people like Steven Crowder and Milo.

[Warren Dew]

While I don't know most of the names you guys are discussing, Southern is very closely aligned with the Sellners. Southern is just better at hiding it enough to get it past the Youtube censors.

[Eric the Green]

"the views of Gen Z – those ages 13 to 21 in 2018 – mirror those of Millennials" says Pew, who pinned the name Gen Z on those Mr Howe and myself called the last of Gen Y or Millennials.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/...al-issues/



Remember too that "boomer" for Pew includes many whom we would consider Generation X, those born 1961-1964, as well as the more conservative "Jones" boomer group born about 1958-1960.

[Eric the Green]

(04-14-2020, 03:53 PM)Ghost Wrote: The regular conservative types seem more Christian, right-wing in economics, and centrist on social issues.
The fringe right types usually tend to be folkish pagans, left-wing in economics, and ethnonationalist/anti-LGBT.

That doesn't compute. Christian right wingers are extreme right on social issues especially. Social issues are those informed by religion. Pagans are a small minority of folks in any case, and most are on the left in all respects. There may be some like a guy I know who is fiercely loyal to his ancestry, because they were oppressed by the majority culture or state.

Here's a general look at Christians according to Pew:
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-lands...-ideology/

You can see how the "evangelical" faction leans politically in these charts.
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-lands...-ideology/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...-leanings/

This article describes the political leanings of pagans. The article shows their political views are diverse, with most favoring environmentalism, and some falling into the libertarian trap or supporting Trump. Most tend to be on the left.
https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandcult...d-warlocks

Modern Paganism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Paganism

[Eric the Green]

(04-08-2020, 11:06 PM)Cocoa Puff Wrote:

(04-08-2020, 04:06 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: I definitely believe in evolution and big bang because I'm an agnostic.

That is interesting. I do not believe in evolution or the big bang, but rather that God created the world in six days. I am a Christian who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I keep inviting people to go down the middle on this. I find it so much more interesting and rewarding.

I can go a long way with both sides. I certainly believe that evolution has happened. It's a remarkable story, with much science behind it. There is evidence for the big bang, though probably not conclusive. But the background noise discovered in the sixties was certainly good evidence for it.

But does evolution have to be interpreted or explained as a mechanical cause and effect set of events? I have definitely concluded that neo-Darwinian explanations leave out the nature of life and consciousness. I have preferred terms like the evolution of consciousness or creative evolution. Teilhard de Chardin and Henri Bergson are heroes of mine. I loved their versions of the evolution story.

Bergson as far back as the early 1900s posited "an original impetus" for the evolutionary movement, and it continues to create us, through us. Was that the big bang, or was it the spiritual springing forth of the divine in all things? What happened before the big bang, and what could have caused it? To me, the infinite regress of efficient causation implies a first cause, which must be "God."

But did God create the world in six days instead? A problematic belief, since in the earliest of those days described in Genesis there was no sun or earth yet. A "day" is a long period indeed in the life of the Lord. That he took six of them could be stretched to be called evolution. The creation story in Genesis can be interpreted as unfolding in stages over time. Scholars agree that the writers of the Bible intended it to be symbolic rather than literal.

I can go a long way toward the Christian beliefs about Jesus, much further than many of my more-agnostic friends. I doubt Christianity could have taken off and become the greatest religion in the world without many of the exploits of Jesus described in the Bible. It was his resurrection, and his return to his followers in body and spirit in the days afterward that gave Christians their fervor; not just his teachings. With Jesus' help, they learned to do miraculous healings like Jesus did and speak in tongues. Jesus said that you too will do the things I have done, even after I have gone back home to the Father. I don't have proof that these things happened, so some skepticism remains. But I lean toward the idea that the power of Jesus' deeds and words lived on because they were so powerful. Jesus proved the possibility that humans can learn eventually to survive death. In the New Age circles, this is called "ascension." It is recounted in the fictional account called The Celestine Prophecy. I am not disposed to say it's not possible, and in fact it probably has happened other times, probably among some Eastern adepts. 

Does that mean I must accept Jesus as my only personal savior because he died for my sins? That seems a holdover from archaic notions of sacrifice. Should I proclaim that non-Christians are infidels destined for "hell"? No, I disagree with dogmatic exclusivism. I am a universalist and an eclectic who values both science and all the world's religions. It just means that Jesus is worth a read and a consideration of admiration. From my experience and those of others I know, Jesus is a Spirit that lives on and appears to those who seek him, and who can bring new life to them. Sometimes people become convinced that they can't live well just by themselves, so they turn to Jesus, and they find him. For others, there are other divine sources, including awareness of our interconnection with all and the magical love light that is always there but oft-ignored. What an amazing miracle life is, after all. And so rare in this huge, bleak cosmos created in six divine days from an original impetus.