The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have lots of integrity and cold logic.

If you define integrity as loyalty to red ideals, you have integrity.  I have a more scientific world view, and matching one’s theory to reality is kind of a big deal.  When you are willing to sacrifice meshing with reality in order to maintain the ideals, the perception is one of a lack of integrity.

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What they recognized was they couldn't win without doing what I did which was allow myself to come to your level and kick some ass and knock some sense into peoples heads. Do you see many hardcore liberals other than yourselves?

In Massachusetts?  Silly question.  Some areas see the problems that come with a high population density and wish to solve them.  Unfortunately, doing this on the national scale imposes on more rural populations in such a way to force changes they don’t prefer.  If you don’t encounter the problem, why would one wish to pay to solve it?  On the forums, I certainly do see as many or more progressives than conservatives.  You can’t ignore problems indefinitely.  This is especially true of the Coronavirus, where if you don’t recognize the virus it kills.  You can’t fake news or hoax it away.

Sometimes I wonder how well the rural idiots would last in the urban centers.  If things could be settled by knocking sense into people, the rural idiots would get into trouble real quick.  This is just not the place for idiots.  The theory is not advanced by spouting ideologies or making silly threats of violence.  Turning theory is supposed to be part of a scientific world view, making predictions in the real world.  Putting your ideology ahead of how well the theory fits reality or threatening violence when you can’t defend your ideology is not helpful.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 09:58 AM)David Horn Wrote: There is the old lawyer's joke that has wider meaning if you let it. The joke: If you have the law against you, you pound on the facts, and if you have the facts against you, you pound on the law, but if you have the law and the facts against you, you pound on the table.  There's a lot of table pounding by the right these days.

Dude, when I pound my fist on your table that's a wake up call. Yes, the right is pounding on lefts table a lot lately and the left is in a bit of a quandary as to what that means for them. We're seeing the leftists who used to spend their time pulling the strings and doing the dirty/nasty work behind the scenes. You can sugar coat them, try making them smell like roses, say it ain't so about them but that doesn't change our views of them. You have a problem, you have half of a country that see right through them and you have about half a party that plugs their nose and votes for them because the other half of the country has them covered so to speak. Joe Biden proved that I've been right about progressives all along. The progressives are on their way out nationally and locally for the most part.

[pbrower2a]

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 02:47 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 01:00 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I used my judgement like everyone else. Do you have a problem with that? I can't stand Rachel and the heavy barrage of criticism at the beginning turned me off. Now, you can put your words in my mouth and your beliefs in my head and fuck up like every idiot who did it before you and disappear like they did when life for them became more miserable and the integrity among the group was gone. I could hammer you with truthful terms that you don't like at anytime.

Truth would be nice.  Reports on your biases that blatantly contradict reality, no so much.  Integrity ought to start with yourself.

***

A few more thoughts…

There was a time when the red might have been more of a force on the T4T forums.  September 11 was proposed as the Trigger, even if it was a bit early.  Bush 43 was proposed as the Grey Champion.  The War on Terror was a central idea.  The Great Debate was ‘stay the course’ against ‘cut and run’.  For a time, the conservatives were if not dominant were at least a significant force on the site.  It was easy to believe the red were winning.

I would not have associated the word ‘integrity’ with the Bush 43 administration.

The economic collapse, the international response to resist Neo colonialism, Obama’s election, pretty much ended all that as if it had never been.  I remember that time as a false regeneracy, a conservative attempt to play the Grey Champion role, a rejection of the attempt to actually implement the new ideals.  Most just want to forget that it ever happened, to look the other way when considering it’s role in history and in S&H turning theory.

Integrity by cutting and running was the response of many red posters.  They at least recognized they were wrong and vanished.  Since then, the site has been blue dominant.

I have lots of integrity and cold logic. Like I said, you should be careful about who you insult. I remember the old T4T forums when blues pretty much dominated every aspect of the forum. As I recall, the blues weren't very nice to other people and were pretty vicious and acted like a pack of wolves at the time.

Quote:Some people do not merit kid-gloves treatment. 

Quote:If I wasn't much of a fighter and incapable of defending myself, being down right mean and scary or lacked the courage and confidence to stand up for myself and defend others, I would have cut and run or bowed down or bowed out too. You see, the good/decent Christians aren't a good match for low life and shitheads.

Bullhist! Low-life types are to be found in all parts of the political spectrum. If you notice, liberals cut little slack for Harvey Weinstein when he was exposed as a serial rapist even if he had been generous in funding liberal causes. We do not have much sympathy for rogues who violate the public trust. Your side defends every seemingly every abuse on your side as something necessary because the 'target' is expendable. Maybe you forget what I had to say about a Democratic Congress-critter who was found to have bribes in his freezer. Despite being in what is usually a safe district for a Democrat and running for re-election during the Obama landslide of 2008, he was defeated. He was indicted, tried, and convicted. 

Being a good. decent Christian does not mean that one is a political or economic reactionary.   

Quote:Of coarse that changed when a REAL hardcore American who places no value on low life's and shitheads showed up and began seriously taking them to task the old fashioned way and gaining support among the locals who agreed and didn't like them very much either. It wasn't a pretty situation but we got the job done. What they recognized was they couldn't win without doing what I did which was allow myself to come to your level and kick some ass and knock some sense into peoples heads. Do you see many hardcore liberals other than yourselves?

I remember a fellow on the old Forum who told a fellow poster to commit suicide. I not only reported such egregious behavior; I warned the fellow to rescind that post and apologize.  He stood his ground and had his posting privileges deleted. 

Another fellow accused me of being a child-molesting homosexual because I was militantly for gay rights!* He pretended to be a fervent Christian, but I proved that a farce. My father had just lost his wife, and I wanted him to get involved in the life that he could not enjoy while he and I were taking care of her. I couldn't get him to re-connect to the Masonic Lodge that had been an important part of his life, but I could get him to go to church. 

Part of the church service is one in which people bring about their concerns about troublesome aspects of life such as health (their own or that of loved ones), marital stress, finances, or job insecurity. The youth pastor seemed to be doing nothing at the time, and I did not want to expose my situation on the web with that creep to everyone there. 

I brought my concern to him and I discussed the need to do the most honorable thing possible. I wasn't going to get a voodoo doll and stick pins in it; I did what I thought one of my heroes, Dr. Martin King would have done about a bigot who wanted to do harm to him. 

I was not going to deprecate homosexuality, because homosexuality is not a choice any more than is eye color or bone structure. Child sexual abuse? For that nobody gets off -- man-boy, man-girl, woman-girl, or woman-boy. This said, libel is a grave sin.

So what did we do? The youth pastor and I did not pray about me, as I wasn't the one with a problem about homosexuality. We decided to pray for my tormenter with the knowledge that I would put my use of prayer to God to change his ungodly ways of injustice, anger, and bigotry. The youth pastor also herd me say that I would mention my prayer on the web site in question. Yes -- we prayed for him so that he would turn from his wicked ways!

I regret to say that the prayer did not work. His heart hardened, and he called me a hypocritical f-- and told me that my prayer was worthless because I am allegedly a child-molesting homosexual. But he did not last long on that Forum. I had given him one more chance than he probably deserved. But who knows? Maybe he would have come to recognize an act of Christian charity.   

*I became militantly for gay rights once I was threatened with a gay-bashing... on the conservative position that whatever fostered respect for homosexuals would make the world safer. How does that go? Without law and order, all the enumerated rights of Man are but cant.     

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 03:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have lots of integrity and cold logic.

If you define integrity as loyalty to red ideals, you have integrity.  I have a more scientific world view, and matching one’s theory to reality is kind of a big deal.  When you are willing to sacrifice meshing with reality in order to maintain the ideals, the perception is one of a lack of integrity.

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What they recognized was they couldn't win without doing what I did which was allow myself to come to your level and kick some ass and knock some sense into peoples heads. Do you see many hardcore liberals other than yourselves?

In Massachusetts?  Silly question.  Some areas see the problems that come with a high population density and wish to solve them.  Unfortunately, doing this on the national scale imposes on more rural populations in such a way to force changes they don’t prefer.  If you don’t encounter the problem, why would one wish to pay to solve it?  On the forums, I certainly do see as many or more progressives than conservatives.  You can’t ignore problems indefinitely.  This is especially true of the Coronavirus, where if you don’t recognize the virus it kills.  You can’t fake news or hoax it away.

Sometimes I wonder how well the rural idiots would last in the urban centers.  If things could be settled by knocking sense into people, the rural idiots would get into trouble real quick.  This is just not the place for idiots.  The theory is not advanced by spouting ideologies or making silly threats of violence.  Turning theory is supposed to be part of a scientific world view, making predictions in the real world.  Putting your ideology ahead of how well the theory fits reality or threatening violence when you can’t defend your ideology is not helpful.

Integrity has a meaning. I suggest that you look it up and learn what it means. I noticed that you spent more time advancing TFT theory and using it to advance the progressive agenda then you spent listening to me and other critics/skeptics back then and not caring much about the long term results or immediate impacts they'd have on millions of other people than us.

To be honest, I'm not impressed with science right now. Science seems to be all over the place right now. I've seen multiple models and multiple contradictions between scientists and multiple projections and multiple ideas of how the virus is able to spread and a few short term solutions that some scientists, medical people and the liberal media vehemently reject as a viable solution. So, you represent the scientific worldview and scientific values, I'd say that they're both messed up right now. So, I'm going to stay with mine.

[Eric the Green]

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 03:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have lots of integrity and cold logic.

If you define integrity as loyalty to red ideals, you have integrity.  I have a more scientific world view, and matching one’s theory to reality is kind of a big deal.  When you are willing to sacrifice meshing with reality in order to maintain the ideals, the perception is one of a lack of integrity.

(04-12-2020, 02:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What they recognized was they couldn't win without doing what I did which was allow myself to come to your level and kick some ass and knock some sense into peoples heads. Do you see many hardcore liberals other than yourselves?

In Massachusetts?  Silly question.  Some areas see the problems that come with a high population density and wish to solve them.  Unfortunately, doing this on the national scale imposes on more rural populations in such a way to force changes they don’t prefer.  If you don’t encounter the problem, why would one wish to pay to solve it?  On the forums, I certainly do see as many or more progressives than conservatives.  You can’t ignore problems indefinitely.  This is especially true of the Coronavirus, where if you don’t recognize the virus it kills.  You can’t fake news or hoax it away.

Sometimes I wonder how well the rural idiots would last in the urban centers.  If things could be settled by knocking sense into people, the rural idiots would get into trouble real quick.  This is just not the place for idiots.  The theory is not advanced by spouting ideologies or making silly threats of violence.  Turning theory is supposed to be part of a scientific world view, making predictions in the real world.  Putting your ideology ahead of how well the theory fits reality or threatening violence when you can’t defend your ideology is not helpful.

Integrity has a meaning. I suggest that you look it up and learn what it means. I noticed that you spent more time advancing TFT theory and using it to advance the progressive agenda then you spent listening to me and other critics/skeptics back then and not caring much about the long term results or immediate impacts they'd have on millions of other people than us.

To be honest, I'm not impressed with science right now. Science seems to be all over the place right now. I've seen multiple models and multiple contradictions between scientists and multiple projections and multiple ideas of how the virus is able to spread and a few short term solutions that some scientists, medical people  and the liberal media vehemently reject as a viable solution. So, you represent the scientific worldview and scientific values, I'd say that they're both messed up right now. So, I'm going to stay with mine.

Corona virus 19 is too new for science to have definitive information on it. Cures are being worked on, but what is certainly not viable and certainly dangerous is for Trump to trumpet a cure that no science supports in the hope it might persuade America to lift shelter in place and go back to normal and thus allow the virus to spread even more.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Integrity has a meaning. I suggest that you look it up and learn what it means.

Just did.  My computer’s dictionary definition includes truthfulness.  That would totally exclude you.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I noticed that you spent more time advancing TFT theory and using it to advance the progressive agenda then you spent listening to me and other critics/skeptics back then and not caring much about the long term results or immediate impacts they'd have on millions of other people than us.

I advocate a real arrow of progress.  Each Crisis solves a particular problem in which the conservative faction would prefer to stick with the old ways of doing things.  Thus, I support democracy, the abolition of slavery, and the end to fascism.  Is it much of a surprise that I support saving the planet, saving lives, and honoring the scientific reporting?  The Agricultural Age was horrible.  Removing traces of it is a good thing, which I care about a lot.  Thus I speak against people who would rather stick to the ugliness than solve problems.

I do care a lot.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: To be honest, I'm not impressed with science right now. Science seems to be all over the place right now. I've seen multiple models and multiple contradictions between scientists and multiple projections and multiple ideas of how the virus is able to spread and a few short term solutions that some scientists, medical people  and the liberal media vehemently reject as a viable solution. So, you represent the scientific worldview and scientific values, I'd say that they're both messed up right now. So, I'm going to stay with mine.

Not shocked.  People will stick firmly to their values unless they see a collapse of the scale of Atlanta towards the end of the Civil War or Berlin towards the end of World War II.  You almost have to force people to recognize the new values, as dedicated as they are to the evils of the earlier time.  That it essentially how strong an event has to be to cause a culture to change, to make people change the world view.

I try to do what I can over the internet, but don't expect a lot.  The changes forced on the culture by the Coronavirus obviously do more than I can.  We will see if it is enough to wake up the sleepers.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 04:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I remember a fellow on the old Forum who told a fellow poster to commit suicide. I not only reported such egregious behavior; I warned the fellow to rescind that post and apologize.  He stood his ground and had his posting privileges deleted. 

Another fellow accused me of being a child-molesting homosexual because I was militantly for gay rights!* He pretended to be a fervent Christian, but I proved that a farce. My father had just lost his wife, and I wanted him to get involved in the life that he could not enjoy while he and I were taking care of her. I couldn't get him to re-connect to the Masonic Lodge that had been an important part of his life, but I could get him to go to church. 

Part of the church service is one in which people bring about their concerns about troublesome aspects of life such as health (their own or that of loved ones), marital stress, finances, or job insecurity. The youth pastor seemed to be doing nothing at the time, and I did not want to expose my situation on the web with that creep to everyone there. 

I brought my concern to him and I discussed the need to do the most honorable thing possible. I wasn't going to get a voodoo doll and stick pins in it; I did what I thought one of my heroes, Dr. Martin King would have done about a bigot who wanted to do harm to him. 

I was not going to deprecate homosexuality, because homosexuality is not a choice any more than is eye color or bone structure. Child sexual abuse? For that nobody gets off -- man-boy, man-girl, woman-girl, or woman-boy. This said, libel is a grave sin.

So what did we do? The youth pastor and I did not pray about me, as I wasn't the one with a problem about homosexuality. We decided to pray for my tormenter with the knowledge that I would put my use of prayer to God to change his ungodly ways of injustice, anger, and bigotry. The youth pastor also herd me say that I would mention my prayer on the web site in question. Yes -- we prayed for him so that he would turn from his wicked ways!

I regret to say that the prayer did not work. His heart hardened, and he called me a hypocritical f-- and told me that my prayer was worthless because I am allegedly a child-molesting homosexual. But he did not last long on that Forum. I had given him one more chance than he probably deserved. But who knows? Maybe he would have come to recognize an act of Christian charity.   

*I became militantly for gay rights once I was threatened with a gay-bashing... on the conservative position that whatever fostered respect for homosexuals would make the world safer. How does that go? Without law and order, all the enumerated rights of Man are but cant.     

Yes. I told a fellow poster of yours that I was bored to death with the guilt trips in a way intended to wake him up and let go of the liberal way getting what they want from us and upset you (not him) and got me temporally banned. I see that you're still breathing and posting and still looking for victims to join the liberal cause. I recently told you that if you can't handle the heat then you better get out of kitchen for your own sake. If you can't handle being around adults, you shouldn't be hanging around with real adults. You seem to be the sort of person who will use that handicap of yours to your advantage.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 08:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Integrity has a meaning. I suggest that you look it up and learn what it means.

Just did.  My computer’s dictionary definition includes truthfulness.  That would totally exclude you.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I noticed that you spent more time advancing TFT theory and using it to advance the progressive agenda then you spent listening to me and other critics/skeptics back then and not caring much about the long term results or immediate impacts they'd have on millions of other people than us.

I advocate a real arrow of progress.  Each Crisis solves a particular problem in which the conservative faction would prefer to stick with the old ways of doing things.  Thus, I support democracy, the abolition of slavery, and the end to fascism.  Is it much of a surprise that I support saving the planet, saving lives, and honoring the scientific reporting?  The Agricultural Age was horrible.  Removing traces of it is a good thing, which I care about a lot.  Thus I speak against people who would rather stick to the ugliness than solve problems.

I do care a lot.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: To be honest, I'm not impressed with science right now. Science seems to be all over the place right now. I've seen multiple models and multiple contradictions between scientists and multiple projections and multiple ideas of how the virus is able to spread and a few short term solutions that some scientists, medical people  and the liberal media vehemently reject as a viable solution. So, you represent the scientific worldview and scientific values, I'd say that they're both messed up right now. So, I'm going to stay with mine.

Not shocked.  People will stick firmly to their values unless they see a collapse of the scale of Atlanta towards the end of the Civil War or Berlin towards the end of World War II.  You almost have to force people to recognize the new values, as dedicated as they are to the evils of the earlier time.  That it essentially how strong an event has to be to cause a culture to change, to make people change the world view.

I try to do what I can over the internet, but don't expect a lot.  The changes forced on the culture by the Coronavirus obviously do more than I can.  We will see if it is enough to wake up the sleepers.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 08:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 08:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Integrity has a meaning. I suggest that you look it up and learn what it means.

Just did.  My computer’s dictionary definition includes truthfulness.  That would totally exclude you.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I noticed that you spent more time advancing TFT theory and using it to advance the progressive agenda then you spent listening to me and other critics/skeptics back then and not caring much about the long term results or immediate impacts they'd have on millions of other people than us.

I advocate a real arrow of progress.  Each Crisis solves a particular problem in which the conservative faction would prefer to stick with the old ways of doing things.  Thus, I support democracy, the abolition of slavery, and the end to fascism.  Is it much of a surprise that I support saving the planet, saving lives, and honoring the scientific reporting?  The Agricultural Age was horrible.  Removing traces of it is a good thing, which I care about a lot.  Thus I speak against people who would rather stick to the ugliness than solve problems.

I do care a lot.

(04-12-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: To be honest, I'm not impressed with science right now. Science seems to be all over the place right now. I've seen multiple models and multiple contradictions between scientists and multiple projections and multiple ideas of how the virus is able to spread and a few short term solutions that some scientists, medical people  and the liberal media vehemently reject as a viable solution. So, you represent the scientific worldview and scientific values, I'd say that they're both messed up right now. So, I'm going to stay with mine.

Not shocked.  People will stick firmly to their values unless they see a collapse of the scale of Atlanta towards the end of the Civil War or Berlin towards the end of World War II.  You almost have to force people to recognize the new values, as dedicated as they are to the evils of the earlier time.  That it essentially how strong an event has to be to cause a culture to change, to make people change the world view.

I try to do what I can over the internet, but don't expect a lot.  The changes forced on the culture by the Coronavirus obviously do more than I can.  We will see if it is enough to wake up the sleepers.

You still don't believe that you're a bigot or a hypocrite and lack integrity. I'll donate more time and try and prove it to you. If it doesn't work with you, that's OK, I'm not here to change your opinion or convert liberals.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 06:57 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Corona virus 19 is too new for science to have definitive information on it. Cures are being worked on, but what is certainly not viable and certainly dangerous is for Trump to trumpet a cure that no science supports in the hope it might persuade America to lift shelter in place and go back to normal and thus allow the virus to spread even more.

Is that Trumps fault? Is it Trump's fault that science doesn't have a magic wand or book with all the answers? So, when do we start lifting shelter in place and get back to normal so to speak? When does blue America think/feel will be the right time to start? I know blue America likes to drag it's feet more than Red America. I know that science is learning as we're going through this and it's hampered by lack of sound information and pretty much guessing at this point and most likely will not have any definitive answers for months and no vaccine for a year at least if not longer. I'm in the essential worker category but it is impacting my business right now.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-12-2020, 10:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 06:57 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Corona virus 19 is too new for science to have definitive information on it. Cures are being worked on, but what is certainly not viable and certainly dangerous is for Trump to trumpet a cure that no science supports in the hope it might persuade America to lift shelter in place and go back to normal and thus allow the virus to spread even more.

Is that Trumps fault? Is it Trump's fault that science doesn't have a magic wand or book with all the answers? So, when do we start lifting shelter in place and get back to normal so to speak? When does blue America think/feel will be the right time to start? I know blue America likes to drag it's feet more than Red America. I know that science is learning as we're going through this and it's hampered by lack of sound information and pretty much guessing at this point and most likely will not have any definitive answers for months and no vaccine for a year at least if not longer. I'm in the essential worker category but it is impacting my business right now.

Yes, it is Trump's fault.  China provided a lot of the answers and he ignored them.  It was less the science than China's autocratic regime, but the conservative values of placing the economy and Trump's reputation as more important than saving lives meant the well known answers were not implemented.

A lot of the reason science is guessing is the lack of testing.  This was caused by Trump dropping the ball.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-12-2020, 10:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 10:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 06:57 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Corona virus 19 is too new for science to have definitive information on it. Cures are being worked on, but what is certainly not viable and certainly dangerous is for Trump to trumpet a cure that no science supports in the hope it might persuade America to lift shelter in place and go back to normal and thus allow the virus to spread even more.

Is that Trumps fault? Is it Trump's fault that science doesn't have a magic wand or book with all the answers? So, when do we start lifting shelter in place and get back to normal so to speak? When does blue America think/feel will be the right time to start? I know blue America likes to drag it's feet more than Red America. I know that science is learning as we're going through this and it's hampered by lack of sound information and pretty much guessing at this point and most likely will not have any definitive answers for months and no vaccine for a year at least if not longer. I'm in the essential worker category but it is impacting my business right now.

Yes, it is Trump's fault.  China provided a lot of the answers and he ignored them.  It was less the science than China's autocratic regime, but the conservative values of placing the economy and Trump's reputation as more important than saving lives meant the well known answers were not implemented.

A lot of the reason science is guessing is the lack of testing.  This was caused by Trump dropping the ball.

Did you get that information from China or Rachel?

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-12-2020, 11:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 10:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Yes, it is Trump's fault.  China provided a lot of the answers and he ignored them.  It was less the science than China's autocratic regime, but the conservative values of placing the economy and Trump's reputation as more important than saving lives meant the well known answers were not implemented.

A lot of the reason science is guessing is the lack of testing.  This was caused by Trump dropping the ball.

Did you get that information from China or Rachel?

It is available from many news sources, including Rachel. If you accessed resources at all you would be aware of it as well.

I have not tried to directly access China's claims, but they have been reported by various media.

[pbrower2a]

(04-12-2020, 08:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 04:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I remember a fellow on the old Forum who told a fellow poster to commit suicide. I not only reported such egregious behavior; I warned the fellow to rescind that post and apologize.  He stood his ground and had his posting privileges deleted. 

Another fellow accused me of being a child-molesting homosexual because I was militantly for gay rights!* He pretended to be a fervent Christian, but I proved that a farce. My father had just lost his wife, and I wanted him to get involved in the life that he could not enjoy while he and I were taking care of her. I couldn't get him to re-connect to the Masonic Lodge that had been an important part of his life, but I could get him to go to church. 

Part of the church service is one in which people bring about their concerns about troublesome aspects of life such as health (their own or that of loved ones), marital stress, finances, or job insecurity. The youth pastor seemed to be doing nothing at the time, and I did not want to expose my situation on the web with that creep to everyone there. 

I brought my concern to him and I discussed the need to do the most honorable thing possible. I wasn't going to get a voodoo doll and stick pins in it; I did what I thought one of my heroes, Dr. Martin King would have done about a bigot who wanted to do harm to him. 

I was not going to deprecate homosexuality, because homosexuality is not a choice any more than is eye color or bone structure. Child sexual abuse? For that nobody gets off -- man-boy, man-girl, woman-girl, or woman-boy. This said, libel is a grave sin.

So what did we do? The youth pastor and I did not pray about me, as I wasn't the one with a problem about homosexuality. We decided to pray for my tormenter with the knowledge that I would put my use of prayer to God to change his ungodly ways of injustice, anger, and bigotry. The youth pastor also herd me say that I would mention my prayer on the web site in question. Yes -- we prayed for him so that he would turn from his wicked ways!

I regret to say that the prayer did not work. His heart hardened, and he called me a hypocritical f-- and told me that my prayer was worthless because I am allegedly a child-molesting homosexual. But he did not last long on that Forum. I had given him one more chance than he probably deserved. But who knows? Maybe he would have come to recognize an act of Christian charity.   

*I became militantly for gay rights once I was threatened with a gay-bashing... on the conservative position that whatever fostered respect for homosexuals would make the world safer. How does that go? Without law and order, all the enumerated rights of Man are but cant.     

Yes. I told a fellow poster of yours that I was bored to death with the guilt trips in a way intended to wake him up and let go of the liberal way getting what they want from us  and upset you (not him) and got me temporally banned. I see that you're still breathing and posting and still looking for victims to join the liberal cause. I recently told you that if you can't handle the heat then you better get out of kitchen for your own sake. If you can't handle being around adults, you shouldn't be hanging around with real adults. You seem to be the sort of person who will use that handicap of yours to your advantage.

I may be excessively literal in my understanding of many things,  but telling someone to commit suicide goes far beyond the line of decency.  I was not the only person offended.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-12-2020, 09:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You still don't believe that you're a bigot or a hypocrite and lack integrity. I'll donate more time and try and prove it to you. If it doesn't work with you, that's OK, I'm not here to change your opinion or convert liberals.

Have you ever tried to shift someone with a scientific world view and a pet theory?  Have you encountered a scientist, engineer or a college professor in real life?  While threats of violence over the internet might work for some, and quoting a political ideology might work for others, to shift someone with a scientific world view try disproving something that his theory counts on, or questioning the logic of his theory.  Provide a link to a non ideological source that shows part of the theory does not work.

This sort of person will shift much easier than someone centered on a violent or ideological approach.  Those who enjoy violence enjoy violence.  Those into a political ideology are hopeless.  You just have to approach someone with a more scientific world view in the right way.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-13-2020, 03:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I may be excessively literal in my understanding of many things,  but telling someone to commit suicide goes far beyond the line of decency.  I was not the only person offended.

I can do that too. I can hammer you for anything that's remotely offensive to anyone. I can even make stuff up and accuse you of anything. I don't want to be a liberal but I can pretend to be just like one anytime. It's not like I have more important things to do right now or the foreseeable future.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-13-2020, 04:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 09:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You still don't believe that you're a bigot or a hypocrite and lack integrity. I'll donate more time and try and prove it to you. If it doesn't work with you, that's OK, I'm not here to change your opinion or convert liberals.

Have you ever tried to shift someone with a scientific world view and a pet theory?  Have you encountered a scientist, engineer or a college professor in real life?  While threats of violence over the internet might work for some, and quoting a political ideology might work for others, to shift someone with a scientific world view try disproving something that his theory counts on, or questioning the logic of his theory.  Provide a link to a non ideological source that shows part of the theory does not work.

This sort of person will shift much easier than someone centered on a violent or ideological approach.  Those who enjoy violence enjoy violence.  Those into a political ideology are hopeless.  You just have to approach someone with a more scientific world view in the right way.

Nope. I'm not used to communicating with a robot that's been programmed with a scientific world view and a theory to use to advance an ideology associated with the former Soviet Union that China is now benefiting from today.

[Eric the Green]

(04-13-2020, 02:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-13-2020, 04:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-12-2020, 09:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You still don't believe that you're a bigot or a hypocrite and lack integrity. I'll donate more time and try and prove it to you. If it doesn't work with you, that's OK, I'm not here to change your opinion or convert liberals.

Have you ever tried to shift someone with a scientific world view and a pet theory?  Have you encountered a scientist, engineer or a college professor in real life?  While threats of violence over the internet might work for some, and quoting a political ideology might work for others, to shift someone with a scientific world view try disproving something that his theory counts on, or questioning the logic of his theory.  Provide a link to a non ideological source that shows part of the theory does not work.

This sort of person will shift much easier than someone centered on a violent or ideological approach.  Those who enjoy violence enjoy violence.  Those into a political ideology are hopeless.  You just have to approach someone with a more scientific world view in the right way.

Nope. I'm not used to communicating with a robot that's been programmed with a scientific world view and a theory to use to advance an ideology associated with the former Soviet Union that China is now benefiting from today.

But you are used to being a robot yourself and thus associating today's green new deal with regimes long past and discredited by the left.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-13-2020, 02:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Nope. I'm not used to communicating with a robot that's been programmed with a scientific world view and a theory to use to advance an ideology associated with the former Soviet Union that China is now benefiting from today.

I thought so.  You are clearly an ideologue and don’t know how to handle someone who is focused on learning from reality.

You also are not speaking truth, again, showing your lack of integrity.  The old meme, saying all Democrats are Communist going with the opposite all Republicans are Fascists have been left behind even by most American extremist ideologues.  Even the communists don’t believe in communism anymore.  Communism has been replaced by an odd hybrid of capitalists running the equivalent of corporations and autocrats dominating the government.  My arrow of progress suggests even more change is coming.  Thus, I am not advocating for the long dead system of government.  

Your ideology is quite obsolete and inaccurate.  Anyone who is paying the least attention to what I say would know that.  But that suggests that you care about reality not your ideology.  This again counts as spouting ideology and ignoring reality, which I already warned you is not effective against the scientific mind.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-13-2020, 03:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-13-2020, 02:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Nope. I'm not used to communicating with a robot that's been programmed with a scientific world view and a theory to use to advance an ideology associated with the former Soviet Union that China is now benefiting from today.

I thought so.  You are clearly an ideologue and don’t know how to handle someone who is focused on learning from reality.

You also are not speaking truth, again, showing your lack of integrity.  The old meme, saying all Democrats are Communist going with the opposite all Republicans are Fascists have been left behind even by most American extremist ideologues.  Even the communists don’t believe in communism anymore.  Communism has been replaced by an odd hybrid of capitalists running the equivalent of corporations and autocrats dominating the government.  My arrow of progress suggests even more change is coming.  Thus, I am not advocating for the long dead system of government.  

Your ideology is quite obsolete and inaccurate.  Anyone who is paying the least attention to what I say would know that.  But that suggests that you care about reality not your ideology.  This again counts as spouting ideology and ignoring reality, which I already warned you is not effective against the scientific mind.

I'm aligned with an American based ideology but I'm not an ideologue as you claim. I'm not a Neo Conservative or a Neo Liberal. I'm not a compassionate conservative or a bleeding heart liberal. I'm not a born again Christian/Evangelical  or a devoted agnostic or atheist. I'm not a Marxist Communist or a Marxist Fascist. I don't have a preference for any particular group associated with the Democratic Party these days. I'm a Classical Liberal or small r Republican who believes in free and fair trade who wouldn't have signed the trade deals that gutted the country. Do we need New England for anything other than its historical significance and as an ally during times of world war like Canada? Now, you live in a region that's way more populated than Canada and way smaller than Canada land mass wise.