The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Eric the Green]

(06-28-2020, 02:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 05:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Such as the above.  First, Nazi Germany was not a big fan of the Soviet Union.  I would think a regular at a history web site would know that, would not show his obvious ignorance so blatantly.  Second, Marxism is dead except to the extent that reds keep it alive in their delusions.  It is easier to rant against their obsessions than to deal with the real world.  Even the Chinese Communist Party works hand in hand with capitalist these days.  

A real complaint please?  Something that has something to do with reality?  Enough of your dream world?

Nope. The Fascists weren't fans of their Communist rivals. If Marxism is dead, then why are we watching so many of them tearing down statues us famous Americans associated with our history. Are you deaf, dumb and blind? Deaf, dumb and blind is the only acceptable excuse that you and others have right now. So Bob, if your Marxist nuts start terrorizing and oppressing southern Americans what do you think is going to start happening to liberal clowns in the American north. America is a big country that has a lot of American people who know the difference between them and what they stand for and (what) the naive movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks, liberal posters (like PB) and the quasi socialists/Marxists (support) who are attacking them now in areas where they can get away with it. Like I said, you better wise up and take a big breath because there is an American onslaught that's building right now and a lowering of tolerance that will be coming your way soon.

Eric keeps asking me to explain the difference between he and I, the Marxist who happens to live in America and the American, Marxist belief and American belief, Marxist values and American values and so forth. Right now, Marxist Minneapolis is surrounded by Americans. Do you want to know the difference between Minneapolis and St Paul. One is the state capital and the other isn't and therefore expendable. I don't know what the bend over, bow down, sway with the political wind corporate elites and political elites associated with DC and the northeast are going to do when America decides that they're not going to pay for their products or their tickets or their stadiums or their condo's or their trains or their bailouts and accept temporary losses and inconveniences and financial implosions and violence for the greater good of America and the American future like their ancestors did four score and seven years ago. You preach a lot, you talk a lot, you promote you're spin of history, you promote your spin of theory  and you do and say whatever you can to exclude yourself from the Marxist age mess that we can clearly see today.

As always, you are making so much hay out of so little, to further your "anti-Marxist, pro-American" propaganda. The statues of real historic Americans will stay-- or at least that's what most people want, so they will prevail after the current rage. The confederates are not famous Americans, but traitors, and no-one will miss their memorials.

Yes, I keep asking, and you keep dodging the question. Labeling us as "Marxists" and your guys as "Americans" does nothing to define what you think "American" means. The labels you throw around mean nothing. So the "Marxists" are "movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks?" Again, that means nothing. A list of entertainer types is not a set of ideas or ideals. So, are you saying that in your "America," entertainers are banned? That sounds more like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-27-2020, 08:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Gee, this thread suddenly got quiet. didn't it? Maybe the defense of monuments to Confederate leaders is beginning to look about as pointless as the defense of Commies and fascists.

Just think of what a statue of Jefferson Davis, let alone Nathan Bedford Forrest, means to some black child in the South... yes, these are the heroes. These people fought to keep your fourth-great-grandparents (the black ones, at least) in bondage.

No. I had other things to do. So, I assume that you view George Washington and Abe Lincoln and US Grant and the statues of other American heroes associated with the south during the American Civil War as being in the same league as the statues of dictators like Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Lennon and so forth. There's a reason why you were a part time teacher and the reason is/was that you are dumber and have less common sense than the average American these days. Yep, we are seeing what the liberals have to say, what they allow/ support and what they feel about proposed changes to lessen the chance of a George Floyd situation occurring again and stem the spread of the hatred and violence that we've seen across the country lately. Like I said, we aren't on trial or the ones being judged today. The Left and the Democrats are on trial and the ones being judged by the rest of America today. You are affiliated with the Left and the Democrats right.

I heard the Marxist Minneapolis city council voted to disband the Minneapolis police force the other day and basically outlawed the use deadly force by eliminating the legal protections associated with it and basically replace them with an unarmed peace keepers/social workers who won't be trained in personal defense or trained to use firearms and the only weapon they can have or use is a taser or portable pepper spray. I doubt a taser or pepper is going to do much good against criminals that are usually armed with semi automatic pistols and other deadly firearms but that must not matter to the who represent the petty thieves, inner city gangs and all their members, the drug dealers, poor single moms with kids, illegal human and drug trafficers, illegal alien population and the backward minded people and the careless idiots that occupy their areas. I doubt the rest of the suburbs and rural areas going to follow suit and go along with them. I doubt the rest of Minnesota is going like the idea of their national guard being relied on, sent in to harms way and so forth instead of the Minneapolis police force. I doubt we are going to like the idea of our local police forces and county police forces and state highway patrols also being sent in to deal with their issues that get out of hand too.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 03:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 02:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 05:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Such as the above.  First, Nazi Germany was not a big fan of the Soviet Union.  I would think a regular at a history web site would know that, would not show his obvious ignorance so blatantly.  Second, Marxism is dead except to the extent that reds keep it alive in their delusions.  It is easier to rant against their obsessions than to deal with the real world.  Even the Chinese Communist Party works hand in hand with capitalist these days.  

A real complaint please?  Something that has something to do with reality?  Enough of your dream world?

Nope. The Fascists weren't fans of their Communist rivals. If Marxism is dead, then why are we watching so many of them tearing down statues us famous Americans associated with our history. Are you deaf, dumb and blind? Deaf, dumb and blind is the only acceptable excuse that you and others have right now. So Bob, if your Marxist nuts start terrorizing and oppressing southern Americans what do you think is going to start happening to liberal clowns in the American north. America is a big country that has a lot of American people who know the difference between them and what they stand for and (what) the naive movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks, liberal posters (like PB) and the quasi socialists/Marxists (support) who are attacking them now in areas where they can get away with it. Like I said, you better wise up and take a big breath because there is an American onslaught that's building right now and a lowering of tolerance that will be coming your way soon.

Eric keeps asking me to explain the difference between he and I, the Marxist who happens to live in America and the American, Marxist belief and American belief, Marxist values and American values and so forth. Right now, Marxist Minneapolis is surrounded by Americans. Do you want to know the difference between Minneapolis and St Paul. One is the state capital and the other isn't and therefore expendable. I don't know what the bend over, bow down, sway with the political wind corporate elites and political elites associated with DC and the northeast are going to do when America decides that they're not going to pay for their products or their tickets or their stadiums or their condo's or their trains or their bailouts and accept temporary losses and inconveniences and financial implosions and violence for the greater good of America and the American future like their ancestors did four score and seven years ago. You preach a lot, you talk a lot, you promote you're spin of history, you promote your spin of theory  and you do and say whatever you can to exclude yourself from the Marxist age mess that we can clearly see today.

As always, you are making so much hay out of so little, to further your "anti-Marxist, pro-American" propaganda. The statues of real historic Americans will stay-- or at least that's what most people want, so they will prevail after the current rage. The confederates are not famous Americans, but traitors, and no-one will miss their memorials.

Yes, I keep asking, and you keep dodging the question. Labeling us as "Marxists" and your guys as "Americans" does nothing to define what you think "American" means. The labels you throw around mean nothing. So the "Marxists" are "movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks?" Again, that means nothing. A list of entertainer types is not a set of ideas or ideals. So, are you saying that in your "America," entertainers are banned? That sounds more like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union. You better wake up. You aren't speaking to a college idiot or a clueless or naive young pup that rolls with what they view/perceive as popular opinion on Snap chat, Facebook, Youtube or Twitter these days or another Marxist or an anarchist or a half wit with a mental health issue. I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

[Eric the Green]

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 03:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 02:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 05:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Such as the above.  First, Nazi Germany was not a big fan of the Soviet Union.  I would think a regular at a history web site would know that, would not show his obvious ignorance so blatantly.  Second, Marxism is dead except to the extent that reds keep it alive in their delusions.  It is easier to rant against their obsessions than to deal with the real world.  Even the Chinese Communist Party works hand in hand with capitalist these days.  

A real complaint please?  Something that has something to do with reality?  Enough of your dream world?

Nope. The Fascists weren't fans of their Communist rivals. If Marxism is dead, then why are we watching so many of them tearing down statues us famous Americans associated with our history. Are you deaf, dumb and blind? Deaf, dumb and blind is the only acceptable excuse that you and others have right now. So Bob, if your Marxist nuts start terrorizing and oppressing southern Americans what do you think is going to start happening to liberal clowns in the American north. America is a big country that has a lot of American people who know the difference between them and what they stand for and (what) the naive movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks, liberal posters (like PB) and the quasi socialists/Marxists (support) who are attacking them now in areas where they can get away with it. Like I said, you better wise up and take a big breath because there is an American onslaught that's building right now and a lowering of tolerance that will be coming your way soon.

Eric keeps asking me to explain the difference between he and I, the Marxist who happens to live in America and the American, Marxist belief and American belief, Marxist values and American values and so forth. Right now, Marxist Minneapolis is surrounded by Americans. Do you want to know the difference between Minneapolis and St Paul. One is the state capital and the other isn't and therefore expendable. I don't know what the bend over, bow down, sway with the political wind corporate elites and political elites associated with DC and the northeast are going to do when America decides that they're not going to pay for their products or their tickets or their stadiums or their condo's or their trains or their bailouts and accept temporary losses and inconveniences and financial implosions and violence for the greater good of America and the American future like their ancestors did four score and seven years ago. You preach a lot, you talk a lot, you promote you're spin of history, you promote your spin of theory  and you do and say whatever you can to exclude yourself from the Marxist age mess that we can clearly see today.

As always, you are making so much hay out of so little, to further your "anti-Marxist, pro-American" propaganda. The statues of real historic Americans will stay-- or at least that's what most people want, so they will prevail after the current rage. The confederates are not famous Americans, but traitors, and no-one will miss their memorials.

Yes, I keep asking, and you keep dodging the question. Labeling us as "Marxists" and your guys as "Americans" does nothing to define what you think "American" means. The labels you throw around mean nothing. So the "Marxists" are "movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks?" Again, that means nothing. A list of entertainer types is not a set of ideas or ideals. So, are you saying that in your "America," entertainers are banned? That sounds more like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union. You better wake up. You aren't speaking to a college idiot or a clueless or naive young pup that rolls with what they view/perceive as popular opinion on Snap chat, Facebook, Youtube or Twitter these days or another Marxist or an anarchist or a half wit with a mental health issue. I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

You have not defined "American," but if you include in them the Confederates, who were traitors and declared independence and fought the bloodiest war in American history in order to keep their slaves, and spat on American values once re-united by continuing to hold the former slaves in bondage, then it does raise the red flag. If you label me a Marxist, then I can label you a racist. I consider that a fair trade. Since the Marxists have a very lousy record of governing in places like Russia, China and North Korea, I have never considered myself a Marxist, and the Confederates were no better, and are not much better even today by foisting upon us a government that doesn't care about our future or the economic fortunes of most of its citizens. The Confederates did not remain in the Union by choice, and by choice they have never been good Americans.

Are red and blue indeed going to be the same as the gray and the blue? It's up to you.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union.

The Southern Confederates who lost the American Civil War were to a large part racists who soon enough instituted Jim Crow policies.  As you have embraced them as ‘Americans’ I assume you share their beliefs?

Between then and now, the US went through a large values change known as the Civil Rights Movement.  By embracing the post Confederate racist values, I assume you are rejecting the Civil Rights Movement and the legislation that resulted from it?

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

I’ve said many a time that Marx correctly identified the problem, but had a very poor solution.  If you are a revolutionary but do not embrace the checks and balances of the Enlightenment, you are apt to end up with a violent idealist in charge, such as Lenin, Stalin or Mao.  They each failed spectacularly and resulted in the broad rejection of Marxism.  I again state that many among the blue accept this, that they reject autocracy, violence, revolution and the concentration of power in the elite.  

Just curious, you are an advocate of violence.  Do you reject the elite, the division of wealth, the concentration of power?

I see China’s Communist Party as living on borrowed time.  If the CCP provides their people with enough material benefit to stave off the Enlightenment virtues they crave, the CCP will remain in power.  They cannot do this forever, though they are not on the brink yet.  Using violence to reject the will of the people is not a path that one can walk with impunity indefinitely.

[David Horn]

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union. You better wake up. You aren't speaking to a college idiot or a clueless or naive young pup that rolls with what they view/perceive as popular opinion on Snap chat, Facebook, Youtube or Twitter these days or another Marxist or an anarchist or a half wit with a mental health issue. I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

As someone who actually lives in the south, you might consider another line of argument than that. Here's a bit of real history, provided by my local paper. And this is only about the guys in the 20th century. The guys in the 19th were a lot worse.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 06:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The Southern Confederates who lost the American Civil War were to a large part racists who soon enough instituted Jim Crow policies.  As you have embraced them as ‘Americans’ I assume you share their beliefs?

Between then and now, the US went through a large values change known as the Civil Rights Movement.  By embracing the post Confederate racist values, I assume you are rejecting the Civil Rights Movement and the legislation that resulted from it?



I’ve said many a time that Marx correctly identified the problem, but had a very poor solution.  If you are a revolutionary but do not embrace the checks and balances of the Enlightenment, you are apt to end up with a violent idealist in charge, such as Lenin, Stalin or Mao.  They each failed spectacularly and resulted in the broad rejection of Marxism.  I again state that many among the blue accept this, that they reject autocracy, violence, revolution and the concentration of power in the elite.  

Just curious, you are an advocate of violence.  Do you reject the elite, the division of wealth, the concentration of power?

I see China’s Communist Party as living on borrowed time.  If the CCP provides their people with enough material benefit to stave off the Enlightenment virtues they crave, the CCP will remain in power.  They cannot do this forever, though they are not on the brink yet.  Using violence to reject the will of the people is not a path that one can walk with impunity indefinitely.

Yep. Like most, I will push back and even fight and become an advocate for violence and supporter of violence. I'm not a fan of war but I'm not anti-war either because wars are necessary at times. Do you have a problem with that?

I'm not a fan of the modern day liberal aristocracy aka the liberal elite or the liberal DNC aka liberal political elite or the liberal economic elites or the liberal system of advancement that based on liberal preference that your side clearly represents today. Tell me, if racism is as systematic as the liberals aka Marxists say then why do we see so many minorities at the top in change of running things these days. Hint, I'm not going along with the so called elite who are playing liberal politics right now. I don't know why liberal elites are destroying successful brands associated with successful black people who made it big on their own without Democratic support like Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben but I assume maintaining political power based on a belief that blacks can't do anything themselves or survive without the Democrats. Like I've said, the Democrats these days are pretty much shitty, morally bankrupt/corrupt people that we don't care about losing or seeing strung up by angry mobs.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-28-2020, 09:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. Like most, I will push back and even fight and become an advocate for violence and supporter of violence. I'm not a fan of war but I'm not anti-war either because wars are necessary at times. Do you have a problem with that?

I'm not a fan of the modern day liberal aristocracy aka the liberal elite or the liberal DNC aka liberal political elite or the liberal economic elites or the liberal system of advancement that based on liberal preference that your side clearly represents today. Tell me, if racism is as systematic as the liberals aka Marxists say then why do we see so many minorities at the top in change of running things these days. Hint, I'm not going along with the so called elite who are playing liberal politics right now. I don't know why liberal elites are destroying successful brands associated with successful black people who made it big on their own without Democratic support like Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben but I assume maintaining political power based on a belief that blacks can't do anything themselves or survive without the Democrats. Like I've said, the Democrats these days are pretty much shitty, morally bankrupt/corrupt  people that we don't care about losing or seeing strung up by angry mobs.

In that revolution and violence is so Industrial Age, I do have a problem with that approach. If leaders like Lenin, Stalin and Mao are great at violence and extreme in ideology, and end up committing genocide on their own people, can you appreciate my seeking another path?

But now you have clearly labeled your faction as racists, so I can safely label you as racist as well as violent. That will make posts simpler, and the people you claim to represent clearer.

I sorta identified Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as being good cooks. There is nothing wrong with having a symbol with a little extra skin pigmentation. If they were seen as racists symbols by some who would avoid buying the products that bear them, it would be a decision by the corporation not by the Democrats to find another symbol. Will the new symbol be less identifiable when next I run out of maple syrup? Not overly relevant as I haven’t had pancakes on my rotating list of breakfasts lately.

So I rather see the violent racist views that you claim to represent as reprehensible, and the lies you spout about my beliefs a sort of a back handed complement.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 07:35 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union. You better wake up. You aren't speaking to a college idiot or a clueless or naive young pup that rolls with what they view/perceive as popular opinion on Snap chat, Facebook, Youtube or Twitter these days or another Marxist or an anarchist or a half wit with a mental health issue. I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

As someone who actually lives in the south, you might consider another line of argument than that.  Here's a bit of real history, provided by my local paper.  And this is only about the guys in the 20th century.  The guys in the 19th were a lot worse.

So, are your neighbors KKK or Neo Nazi or they more class and culture oriented? I assume the south ain't that bad or scary these days since you chose to live there. Do you know how many times that you have contracted yourself with me over the years? So, do you want it to go back to the way it was during the 20th century or what? I ask because what you're doing and what you are supporting goes against conventional wisdom as it relates to progress. I mean footage of black people running around with stolen TV's and burning stuff doesn't help despite whatever excuse or rational you apply to justify what we've seen take place.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 09:30 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: In that revolution and violence is so Industrial Age, I do have a problem with that approach.  If leaders like Lenin, Stalin and Mao are great at violence and extreme in ideology, and end up committing genocide on their own people, can you appreciate my seeking another path?

But now you have clearly labeled your faction as racists, so I can safely label you as racist as well as violent.  That will make posts simpler, and the people you claim to represent clearer.

I sorta identified Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben as being good cooks.  There is nothing wrong with having a symbol with a little extra skin pigmentation.  If they were seen as racists symbols by some who would avoid buying the products that bear them, it would be a decision by the corporation not by the Democrats to find another symbol.  Will the new symbol be less identifiable when next I run out of maple syrup?  Not overly relevant as I haven’t had pancakes on my rotating list of breakfasts lately.

So I rather see the violent racist views that you claim to represent as reprehensible, and the lies you spout about my beliefs a sort of a back handed complement.

Well, the way I see, you are on the path you're on and you're down the path to far for us to stop you and do much of anything about it at this point. I hope you don't live to close to Boston.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 06:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 04:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 03:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 02:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 05:52 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Such as the above.  First, Nazi Germany was not a big fan of the Soviet Union.  I would think a regular at a history web site would know that, would not show his obvious ignorance so blatantly.  Second, Marxism is dead except to the extent that reds keep it alive in their delusions.  It is easier to rant against their obsessions than to deal with the real world.  Even the Chinese Communist Party works hand in hand with capitalist these days.  

A real complaint please?  Something that has something to do with reality?  Enough of your dream world?

Nope. The Fascists weren't fans of their Communist rivals. If Marxism is dead, then why are we watching so many of them tearing down statues us famous Americans associated with our history. Are you deaf, dumb and blind? Deaf, dumb and blind is the only acceptable excuse that you and others have right now. So Bob, if your Marxist nuts start terrorizing and oppressing southern Americans what do you think is going to start happening to liberal clowns in the American north. America is a big country that has a lot of American people who know the difference between them and what they stand for and (what) the naive movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks, liberal posters (like PB) and the quasi socialists/Marxists (support) who are attacking them now in areas where they can get away with it. Like I said, you better wise up and take a big breath because there is an American onslaught that's building right now and a lowering of tolerance that will be coming your way soon.

Eric keeps asking me to explain the difference between he and I, the Marxist who happens to live in America and the American, Marxist belief and American belief, Marxist values and American values and so forth. Right now, Marxist Minneapolis is surrounded by Americans. Do you want to know the difference between Minneapolis and St Paul. One is the state capital and the other isn't and therefore expendable. I don't know what the bend over, bow down, sway with the political wind corporate elites and political elites associated with DC and the northeast are going to do when America decides that they're not going to pay for their products or their tickets or their stadiums or their condo's or their trains or their bailouts and accept temporary losses and inconveniences and financial implosions and violence for the greater good of America and the American future like their ancestors did four score and seven years ago. You preach a lot, you talk a lot, you promote you're spin of history, you promote your spin of theory  and you do and say whatever you can to exclude yourself from the Marxist age mess that we can clearly see today.

As always, you are making so much hay out of so little, to further your "anti-Marxist, pro-American" propaganda. The statues of real historic Americans will stay-- or at least that's what most people want, so they will prevail after the current rage. The confederates are not famous Americans, but traitors, and no-one will miss their memorials.

Yes, I keep asking, and you keep dodging the question. Labeling us as "Marxists" and your guys as "Americans" does nothing to define what you think "American" means. The labels you throw around mean nothing. So the "Marxists" are "movie stars, the musicians, liberal pop culture folks?" Again, that means nothing. A list of entertainer types is not a set of ideas or ideals. So, are you saying that in your "America," entertainers are banned? That sounds more like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

The Southern Confederates weren't traitors. The southern Confederates were Americans who lost the American Civil War, embraced American values and remained with the Union. You better wake up. You aren't speaking to a college idiot or a clueless or naive young pup that rolls with what they view/perceive as popular opinion on Snap chat, Facebook, Youtube or Twitter these days or another Marxist or an anarchist or a half wit with a mental health issue. I've labelled you a Marxist and you've labelled yourself a Marxist and so has Dave and so has Bob. You are all guilty of being associated with Marxism at one time or another and not letting go of it entirely. Yes, there is still hope with China still being around leaching off global capitalism and American capitalism and contributing large sums of money to colleges who teach it for them. Nope, none of this means nothing to you and you can ignore and dismiss it as usual.

You have not defined "American," but if you include in them the Confederates, who were traitors and declared independence and fought the bloodiest war in American history in order to keep their slaves, and spat on American values once re-united by continuing to hold the former slaves in bondage, then it does raise the red flag. If you label me a Marxist, then I can label you a racist. I consider that a fair trade. Since the Marxists have a very lousy record of governing in places like Russia, China and North Korea, I have never considered myself a Marxist, and the Confederates were no better, and are not much better even today by foisting upon us a government that doesn't care about our future or the economic fortunes of most of its citizens. The Confederates did not remain in the Union by choice, and by choice they have never been good Americans.

Are red and blue indeed going to be the same as the gray and the blue? It's up to you.

Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a harsh lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-28-2020, 06:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You have not defined "American," but if you include in them the Confederates, who were traitors and declared independence and fought the bloodiest war in American history in order to keep their slaves, and spat on American values once re-united by continuing to hold the former slaves in bondage, then it does raise the red flag. If you label me a Marxist, then I can label you a racist. I consider that a fair trade. Since the Marxists have a very lousy record of governing in places like Russia, China and North Korea, I have never considered myself a Marxist, and the Confederates were no better, and are not much better even today by foisting upon us a government that doesn't care about our future or the economic fortunes of most of its citizens. The Confederates did not remain in the Union by choice, and by choice they have never been good Americans.

Are red and blue indeed going to be the same as the gray and the blue? It's up to you.

Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not racist in court and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a nasty lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

[David Horn]

(06-28-2020, 10:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not racist in court and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a nasty lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

Countering a supposed insult of racism with an equally slanderous insult of Marxism doesn't do much for your civil case.

[Eric the Green]

(06-28-2020, 10:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 06:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You have not defined "American," but if you include in them the Confederates, who were traitors and declared independence and fought the bloodiest war in American history in order to keep their slaves, and spat on American values once re-united by continuing to hold the former slaves in bondage, then it does raise the red flag. If you label me a Marxist, then I can label you a racist. I consider that a fair trade. Since the Marxists have a very lousy record of governing in places like Russia, China and North Korea, I have never considered myself a Marxist, and the Confederates were no better, and are not much better even today by foisting upon us a government that doesn't care about our future or the economic fortunes of most of its citizens. The Confederates did not remain in the Union by choice, and by choice they have never been good Americans.

Are red and blue indeed going to be the same as the gray and the blue? It's up to you.

Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not racist in court and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a nasty lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

Well, I've got capital too, so good luck with that. I won't block you or ignore you. You have abundantly proved who you are by you opposing the takedown of statues of confederate traitors and calling them "Americans", which they weren't. At least, once they rebelled and did the things which Dixie later commemorated them for with their lousy statues, and set up their own state in 1860, they were no longer citizens of the USA.

Mississippi may finally be close to admitting they are Americans again, by taking the confederate flag out of their state flag. 155 years too late, but better late than never.

The Democrats have a fair track record, and it could be better, but they can't do much with the stubborn resistance from you guys for 40 years on and counting. The Republicans are proving their abject failure again this year, as they did after Katrina and the 2008 crash and the Iraq War and Iran-Contra and Watergate and on and on. Reaganomics fails. Always.

I did admit to being a "quasi-socialist," but I am also a "quasi-capitalist," and a literal one too, so it seems a wash. I favor a mixed economy, and you favor some degree of laissez faire. And Reaganomics is closet racism; Trump is out in the open. One was a dog whistle, the latter one is a trumpet.

[pbrower2a]

There are many ways in which to be an American. Color, creed, physiognomy, and partisan identity are not part of it.Having immigrant parents makes one no less American than having immigrants who first appeared in America in colonial times. Having ancestors who arrived from a ship only to be sold to the highest bidder makes one no less American than having ancestors who trafficked in those slaves or owned them on the plantations. Having ancestors who fled pogroms in Russia makes one no less American than having ancestors who fled the Irish potato famine. Being on the side of labor or management in a labor-management dispute makes one no less American because one side is less "American " than another. Being a conscientious objector or a war hero makes neither more or less American than the other.

Classic X'er, you do not understand what it means to be an American. Your view is just too narrow.

[Bob Butler 54]

Just caught my daily dose of news.  The new hot item is how US Intelligence had known and maybe briefed the president on how Putin had put a bounty on US soldiers.  Since then, Trump has done nothing but make nice with Russia.  That is apparently going to be a last straw for some veteran's organizations.  Mississippi is removing the battle flag from their state flag, which is more symbolic than anything else, but some have been trying to do that for years.  The protests seem to be taking a back burner, mentioned more lightly.  It seems the Democrats at the national level are waiting until they hopefully get control of the senate as anything passed over current Republican limits would be token.  And even many of the happy talk governors are instigating firmer isolation, though they are declining to admit they were wrong in opening up early.

This is what passes for a slow news day lately?

[Classic-Xer]

(06-29-2020, 04:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: There are many ways in which to be an American. Color, creed, physiognomy, and partisan identity are not part of it.Having immigrant parents makes one no less American than having immigrants who first appeared in America in colonial times. Having ancestors who arrived from a ship only to be sold to the highest bidder makes one no less American than having ancestors who trafficked in those slaves or owned them on the plantations. Having ancestors  who fled pogroms in Russia makes one no less American than having ancestors who fled the Irish potato famine. Being on the side of labor or management in a labor-management dispute makes one no less American because one side is less "American " than another. Being a conscientious objector or a war hero makes neither more or less American than the other.

Classic X'er, you do not understand what it means to be an American. Your view is just too narrow.

Hmm...All I see coming from you are partisan Democratic/ liberal views and talking points and political narratives and a life long devotion to supporting one party. I agree that race, creed, and partisan identity aren't part of it as you said. You don't see how partisan you are? I've got news for you, we don't live colonial times or live during the time of Manifest Destiny or during the time of the so called industrial age. We live in a fully established, fully developed nation with the exception of Alaska which is largely wild and undeveloped at this point. So, whose view is narrow and who doesn't understand what being an American means these days? I don't like YOUR stuck up, piece of shit liberal elites for a reason. I didn't like them much thirty years ago and I like their children less today. How do we get rid of them or force them to grow up and come to grips with how stupid and careless they are as people? What do you know about sacrifice? Fucking up and paying the price ain't sacrifice.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-29-2020, 10:54 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Just caught my daily dose of news.  The new hot item is how US Intelligence had known and maybe briefed the president on how Putin had put a bounty on US soldiers.  Since then, Trump has done nothing but make nice with Russia.  That is apparently going to be a last straw for some veteran's organizations.  Mississippi is removing the battle flag from their state flag, which is more symbolic than anything else, but some have been trying to do that for years.  The protests seem to be taking a back burner, mentioned more lightly.  It seems the Democrats at the national level are waiting until they hopefully get control of the senate as anything passed over current Republican limits would be token.  And even many of the happy talk governors are instigating firmer isolation, though they are declining to admit they were wrong in opening up early.

This is what passes for a slow news day lately?

So, what will Bumbling Biden do about Big Bad Russia or Big Bad China and their little brother North Korea? Will he suck up, kiss ass, appease, attempt to buy off and ignore and look the other way as Americans are being killed and give up the farm like the last liberal President? I hope the next black President is a much better President than the liberal puppet named Obama. I don't know if this is the time for another World War with all the other crap going on right now.

[Eric the Green]

(06-29-2020, 11:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-29-2020, 10:54 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Just caught my daily dose of news.  The new hot item is how US Intelligence had known and maybe briefed the president on how Putin had put a bounty on US soldiers.  Since then, Trump has done nothing but make nice with Russia.  That is apparently going to be a last straw for some veteran's organizations.  Mississippi is removing the battle flag from their state flag, which is more symbolic than anything else, but some have been trying to do that for years.  The protests seem to be taking a back burner, mentioned more lightly.  It seems the Democrats at the national level are waiting until they hopefully get control of the senate as anything passed over current Republican limits would be token.  And even many of the happy talk governors are instigating firmer isolation, though they are declining to admit they were wrong in opening up early.

This is what passes for a slow news day lately?

So, what will Bumbling Biden do about Big Bad Russia or Big Bad China and their little brother North Korea? Will he suck up, kiss ass, appease, attempt to buy off and ignore and look the other way as Americans are being killed and give up the farm like the last liberal President? I hope the next black President is a much better President than the liberal puppet named Obama. I don't know if this is the time for another World War with all the other crap going on right now.

Seems like your guy is the one cozying up to Putin and Jing. Like looking the other way while Russia pays the taliban to shoot our soldiers. I don't know what "farm" Obama is supposed to have given up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Fat chance ha ha.

I hadn't heard Trump using "Bumbling Biden." Is that you nickname? Perhaps you should send it to Trump. Might get him re-elected yet!

[Classic-Xer]

(06-29-2020, 10:37 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-28-2020, 10:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. You are free to call me a racist or associate me with racism. You're lucky I let it slide and associate it with pure stupidity on your part because I can sue you and prove I'm not racist in court and clean you out so to speak. I've got the capital and the connections to teach you a nasty lesson about life. You have to be more careful these days. Yes, the Marxists have a bad track record and the Democrats have a bad track record as we've seen several times lately so you are kind of screwed either way at this point.

Countering a supposed insult of racism with an equally slanderous insult of Marxism doesn't do much for your civil case.

The burden of proof would be on him in an American court. He'd have to prove that I'm racist to get off. Now, he could sue me for calling him a Marxist if he feels that he isn't one at all and knows that he doesn't have a history with Marxism or affiliations with any Marxists or Marxist groups these days but that would be really stupid of him to do in my opinion.