The cancer infecting the political Left

[Classic-Xer]

(12-03-2020, 12:24 AM)Einzige Wrote: God, you people are fucking stupid.

Guns?

Quote:Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

It's similar to our 2nd Amendment. Yeah, we are stupid I guess. Whatever.

[Einzige]

(12-03-2020, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:24 AM)Einzige Wrote: God, you people are fucking stupid.

Guns?

Quote:Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

It's similar to our 2nd Amendment. Yeah, we are stupid I guess. Whatever.

The capitalists are the problem. Capital is always the problem.

[Einzige]

Labor unions are pretty much useless in helping the working class liberate itself from Capitalism. The AFL-CIO under George Meany organized the Hard Hat Riots for Nixon, for instance. Unions basically exist to divide the working-class into strata and cartelize labor. They will not exist in Communism.

This isn't only my view. Per Marxist professor Paul Mattick:

Quote: just as capitalism will not abdicate of its own accord, the existing labor organizations will try their utmost to keep control of these social movements and direct them towards goals favourable to themselves. In the “best” case-should they fail to help secure the status quo-they will direct a possible revolutionary upheaval into state-capitalist channels, in order to maintain social production relations which would not only allow for their further existence, but would also transform their organisations into instrumentalities of a modified capitalist system, and their bureaucracies into a new ruling class. In brief, if anything at all, they would attempt to turn a potential socialist revolution into a state-capitalist revolution, with results such as are represented by the so-called socialist nations.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick.../lebel.htm

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-03-2020, 01:15 AM)Einzige Wrote: The capitalists are the problem. Capital is always the problem.

I see the whole pattern of the Agricultural Age as the problem.  Too much power in the hands of the elites, with too much tribal thinking.  The Cousin's Wars describes the start of the porcess of moving away from that pattern.  The crises of recent times show how each major conflict removes a flaw of that pattern from the culture... kings, slaves, dictators, racists, etc...

Communism is a last attempt to maintain autocratic government, to maintain the Agricultural Age.  While in many ways they talk about progress and revolution against the old ways, the revolutions have always been in countries close to the Agricultural Age pattern whose culture leads the leaders to continue the Agricultural Age way.  While in many ways I can sympathize with the goal of revolting against the abuses of the elite, without the Enlightenment and non violent tools they have only wound up replacing the existing elites with another group of elites.  They have not provided a short of violence check on the power of the elites.

While most won't describe it that way, they have come to recognize Marxism as a failure, unworthy of support, and the Marxists have become irrelevant to the ongoing conflict between the Ages.  The struggle has gone on in the US without the Marxists ever becoming one of the two dominant philosophies.  It is likely now to continue that way, a ghost of a failed philosophy.

The struggle continues without them.  This crisis, the Republicans favor the elites and the racists.  The major points of conflict include too much wealth and power for the elites, racism, COVID, and perhaps global warming.  Another crisis, another step further away from the Agricultural Age pattern.

Einzige is dealing with a dead philosophy which is no longer relevant to the conflict.  Classic is supporting the old values, mistakenly falling for the propaganda of the elites.  Neither are getting rid of elements of the Agricultural Age and thus making the culture better.  They are trying to make creating a more perfect union not American.

We will see.  There is another holiday surge on top of a surge due.  The elitist in chief has a bunch of lawsuits lurking.  The economy is such that the elites are the only source of available capital.  The greenhouse gasses are building, riding the old idea that the environment is there to exploit.  I'm trying to preserve hope that the crisis could continue the long tradition of abuse left behind.  The loyalty to the old ways is still there.  They have pushed the old ways rather than go along with progress enough to prevent the crisis from becoming hard.

We shall see.

[pbrower2a]

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-02-2020, 08:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I just have a feeling that 2020 isn't over.  The hospitals are on the brink of overloading.  Thanksgiving is apt to cause another holiday surge on top of the current surge.  Trump seems to be going for pardons over revenge.  He is seeking money for his next life while the legal cases are pending.

I keep waiting for the base to wake up.  They ought to wake up.  If they don't, they deserve what is coming.

Nope. 2020 is going to extend well into 2022. The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years. The Democratic base is groggy, clueless, still dreaming and wishful thinking. So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever. AOC says that we are going to die in ten years unless we spend Trillions and eliminate evil industries today but the plan is over thirty years. ARE THERE ANY LIBERALS WHO UNDERSTAND MATH or ARE ANY GOOD AT MATH? Since we're all going to be dead in years I've noticed we only have spend 3 Trillion so we can all die feeling good about ourselves. Sounds comical but Liberals are pretty comical these days but it seems to work for largely disconnected Democratic voters/supporters these days.

Republicans may be awake, but out of touch with reality. Demographic trends do not favor a Party which relies upon bigotry, superstition, and delusion. The Millennial generation would surprise anyone who takes the generational theory seriously if it didn't turn out more liberal, rational, and bland than previous generations since at least the GI's. I'm not going to say that Millennial young adults will make a run on music recorded by Lawrence Welk or Guy Lombardo, but it already shows a strong tendency to reject shock-jock rhetoric of any kind. The ratings for "Rash Libel" are way down. 

I'm not Bob, but:

1. Climate change is real. We have seen more record warmth. 80F in mid-November in the middle of Indiana this year? No way! But it happened. We have already had a veritable "Year Without a Winter" (2012), and we are likely in for more of those. 

Do you know what winter wheat is? It is planted in the autumn, when it germinates. Snow covers and protects it from sharp cold snaps and of course drying conditions. Then when the winter ends, the melting snow allows rapid growth of the wheat crop. That is much of your food from the Upper Midwest and the Canadian Prairie Provinces. That makes Ukraine the richest cropland in Europe even if Ukraine is an economic basket case in all else. Wanna see a decrease in the food supply? When that happens, political instability emerges. 

Much of the population of Egypt, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam, and China is still peasant farmers growing crops close to sea level. What happens if these people find that "King Neptune" has confiscated their land and opportunity to farm by inundating it? If you thought Stalin's collectivization of Soviet agriculture was horrible -- well, at least those peasant farmers that Stalin didn't murder for not turning over their land to the State in return for being serfs on State property still got to farm and eat. What happens to several hundred million peasant farmers?

Wanna see a decrease in the food supply? There is no technological fix for hunger.     

Quote:Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China?

Immoral and nonsensical. 

Quote:The polar bears will adapt.

Polar bears typically prey on seals. When they can no longer catch seals from icy shelves in the Arctic Ocean, they will instead find other prey, most likely some large, clumsy animal that can't outrun even a dog.

A polar bear is to the Arctic what a (pick one: this is multiple choice) are to the Sundarbans. 

A) deer
B) water buffalo
C) tiger
D) canoe

Quote:So, what are we going to do about it? Are you going to change Mother Nature? Did you know that our carbon footprint is less than a quarter of China's?

China still burns huge amounts of coal. America no longer burns as much coal as it used to. 

Quote:More of the same as far as what we seen last summer? Are the blacks giong to take power and begin enslaving whites? 

That is fascist talk typical of a Klansman or a neo-Nazi. 

Quote:Are our guns going to be taken away by crazy Liberals? The Republican base is awake Bob.

I know sport hunters. They want nothing to do with fascist creeps.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years.

They are dreaming of being awake.  Not the same thing.

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever.

Climate change is here.  Thing is, the trend is naturally towards cooler.  If we weren't releasing greenhouse gasses so much, the Milankovitch Cycles would be shifting us cool.  We should be sliding into an ice age.  As it is, we are heading in the warm direction.  A lot of the carbon that vegetation has been slowly isolating from the atmosphere as coal, oil and gases are being put back in the atmosphere.  This has shifted us back towards the tropical climate that was so common when there were dinosaurs roaming around.

As far as I can tell, the elites are delaying practical fusion until the profits from selling fossil fuel are gone.  Our releasing of greenhouse gasses could suddenly stop.  But, we are getting close to a number of tipping points.  If a bit more ice melts exposing darker sea rather than white ice to the sun, if a bit more methane thaws (a greenhouse gas), the sudden stop in burning things could be too late.  Too eek out the last gasp of profits, the conservative instinct is to ignore the problem and stay the same.

I suspect the elites are clinging to their profits a little too much.  Global Warming will be with us indefinitely.

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China?

They will do it to themselves.  We have to worry about our own elites.  Tribal thinking, dividing the world between us and them and working up xenophobia about them, is not the solution but part of the problem.  Being obsessed with violence you are too busy with tribal thinking to see it, but it is so.

[Eric the Green]

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-02-2020, 08:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I just have a feeling that 2020 isn't over.  The hospitals are on the brink of overloading.  Thanksgiving is apt to cause another holiday surge on top of the current surge.  Trump seems to be going for pardons over revenge.  He is seeking money for his next life while the legal cases are pending.

I keep waiting for the base to wake up.  They ought to wake up.  If they don't, they deserve what is coming.

Nope. 2020 is going to extend well into 2022. The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years. The Democratic base is groggy, clueless, still dreaming and wishful thinking. So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever. AOC says that we are going to die in ten years unless we spend Trillions and eliminate evil industries today but the plan is over thirty years. ARE THERE ANY LIBERALS WHO UNDERSTAND MATH or ARE ANY GOOD AT MATH? Since we're all going to be dead in years I've noticed we only have spend 3 Trillion so we can all die feeling good about ourselves. Sounds comical but Liberals are pretty comical these days but it seems to work for largely disconnected Democratic voters/supporters these days. 

Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China? The polar bears will adapt.  So, what are we going to do about it? Are you going to change Mother Nature? Did you know that our carbon footprint is less than a quarter of China's? More of the same as far as what we seen last summer? Are the blacks going to take power and begin enslaving whites? Are our guns going to be taken away by crazy Liberals? The Republican base is awake Bob.

You Republicans are falling ever more to sleep. You are almost comatose. Fantasy is your reality. Who are you guys to talk about math, for goodness sakes? LOL

Republicans caused climate change, and are quite happy with it and vote to expand it. It keeps their gas guzzlers humming and the oil and gas profits coming. We could certainly change our energy system in ten years, but we can't solely because of you guys. China is much more efficient at getting things done, and no, their footprint is about the same size as the USA's, and I expect them to make the transition faster than the USA, which already had a 30-year head start.

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature (the actress who portrayed her just passed away). And you still deny human-caused climate change. My my, do you deny the value of facemasks too? Do you think Trump was cheated out of the election? Are vaccines a plot by Bill Gates to implant control devices? Are all Democrats pedophiles? Were gun massacres staged? Are you being attacked by chemtrails? Did aliens bring down the twin towers?

No-one knows for sure how many years we have before we die from this climate disaster. It is not as cut and dried as that, and how quick the transition needs to really be is not known in exact detail. I expect humanity to survive, but what I keep asking is whether we should give up our civilization, our beaches, our leisure time, our creativity and our culture, our homes, our heritage, and more; just so a few oil, gas and coal barons are not inconvenienced? Is it really worth all that? Is it so good that maybe the human race will barely survive their greed? That's the best you'll give us? 

Gee, I hope we can take your guns away. Nothing would make me happier. Although raising your taxes to socialist levels would be about as much fun. The things you care about make me want to vomit. But it's a good idea you have there about what the black lives matter protesters wanted; maybe we should insist not only on reparations for the descendants of slaves, but give the enslavers a lot of their own medicine. Not me, of course; I have no slavemasters in my long American ancestry.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-02-2020, 08:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I just have a feeling that 2020 isn't over.  The hospitals are on the brink of overloading.  Thanksgiving is apt to cause another holiday surge on top of the current surge.  Trump seems to be going for pardons over revenge.  He is seeking money for his next life while the legal cases are pending.

I keep waiting for the base to wake up.  They ought to wake up.  If they don't, they deserve what is coming.

Nope. 2020 is going to extend well into 2022. The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years. The Democratic base is groggy, clueless, still dreaming and wishful thinking. So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever. AOC says that we are going to die in ten years unless we spend Trillions and eliminate evil industries today but the plan is over thirty years. ARE THERE ANY LIBERALS WHO UNDERSTAND MATH or ARE ANY GOOD AT MATH? Since we're all going to be dead in years I've noticed we only have spend 3 Trillion so we can all die feeling good about ourselves. Sounds comical but Liberals are pretty comical these days but it seems to work for largely disconnected Democratic voters/supporters these days. 

Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China? The polar bears will adapt.  So, what are we going to do about it? Are you going to change Mother Nature? Did you know that our carbon footprint is less than a quarter of China's? More of the same as far as what we seen last summer? Are the blacks going to take power and begin enslaving whites? Are our guns going to be taken away by crazy Liberals? The Republican base is awake Bob.

You Republicans are falling ever more to sleep. You are almost comatose. Fantasy is your reality. Who are you guys to talk about math, for goodness sakes? LOL

Republicans caused climate change, and are quite happy with it and vote to expand it. It keeps their gas guzzlers humming and the oil and gas profits coming. We could certainly change our energy system in ten years, but we can't solely because of you guys. China is much more efficient at getting things done, and no, their footprint is about the same size as the USA's, and I expect them to make the transition faster than the USA, which already had a 30-year head start.

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature (the actress who portrayed her just passed away). And you still deny human-caused climate change. My my, do you deny the value of facemasks too? Do you think Trump was cheated out of the election? Are vaccines a plot by Bill Gates to implant control devices? Are all Democrats pedophiles? Were gun massacres staged? Are you being attacked by chemtrails? Did aliens bring down the twin towers?

No-one knows for sure how many years we have before we die from this climate disaster. It is not as cut and dried as that, and how quick the transition needs to really be is not known in exact detail. I expect humanity to survive, but what I keep asking is whether we should give up our civilization, our beaches, our leisure time, our creativity and our culture, our homes, our heritage, and more; just so a few oil, gas and coal barons are not inconvenienced? Is it really worth all that? Is it so good that maybe the human race will barely survive their greed? That's the best you'll give us? 

Gee, I hope we can take your guns away. Nothing would make me happier. Although raising your taxes to socialist levels would be about as much fun. The things you care about make me want to vomit. But it's a good idea you have there about what the black lives matter protesters wanted; maybe we should insist not only on reparations for the descendants of slaves, but give the enslavers a lot of their own medicine. Not me, of course; I have no slavemasters in my long American ancestry.

If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce.

I think Biden won the election but I don't think he won it fair and square. The Democratic party pulled out the stops and cheated and won it for him. As a general rule, candidates don't win national elections by limiting their campaigning/campaigns and being able to stay home the bulk of the time. Plus, I've never seen a corporation like Google or Facebook/Twitter having the power and authority to control free speech and censor pertinent information either. Plus, I've never seen a bunch of states change their laws or use mass balloting just prior to an election either. Plus, I've never seen a Presidential candidate showing obvious signs of dementia get elected without being questioned about it either. I heard a Left Wing Brit who said Trump not conceding was the greatest threat to our democracy but it's pretty clear the bitch wasn't here to witness what we experienced or what we watched occur happen during this election. I think you're going to regret going along with the Democratic party and voting for Biden myself. As a general rule, people aren't fond of being tricked by a classic bait and switch or having pertinent information withheld from them. Of coarse, you'll still blame us for it anyways. You already lost half the country forever because we know what the Democratic party is about these days. What the Democrats say its about doesn't jive with what we see these days. It's a disaster waiting to happen at this point. Grid lock is not what you need but what you're going to get and if you go back to slim majorities having the power it will come back to bite you like it did with the judges.

Do you want to know what the cities mean to us? The cities are where we have go to see a sports event or concert or go to work for some or travel through to get some place else. I don't have any slave owners in my long ancestry either. If there's a Civil War, we won't fighting over slavery this time around because every black person in this country is free whether they feel like it or not. You won't be able to take our guns away but you can try and see what happens as a result. I'd actually welcome it myself knowing the outcome wouldn't be in your favor. Emotional twits don't think and the Democratic side has the overwhelming majority of the emotional twits on its side these days. I doubt to many US soldiers would be willing to fight for their rights being taken away these days. You always forget that you live in a country with a government that doesn't have the freedom to remove our Constitutional rights and the army that's in place is there to keep it that way. So, unless you want a war with us and them I'd suggest that you leave the second amendment alone.

[pbrower2a]

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you think the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who blamed the Jews for everything wrong with Germany.

The GOP during the Trump Presidency has done everything possible to frustrate efforts to mitigate existing or to prevent further climate change. Trump has been in the pocket of the fossil-fuel industry. 

Quote:I think Biden won the election but I don't think he won it fair and square. As a general rule, candidates don't win an election by staying home the bulk of the time.

They used to. Trump was far more reckless about going out in public to campaign, especially in venues in which people felt free to not wear masks. Trump's political rallies are super-spreader events. 

You can trust that were it not for COVID-19, Joe Biden would have appeared in more places. Significantly we Democrats did not do two of the usual things that we do in electoral campaigns, which is (1) to canvass (it works -- yes, it really does), and (2) to be ready to take people to the polling place if they need a ride. That can be the difference in turnout. I trust that COVID-19 will be gone, and we Democrats will be up to our old tricks. The tricks that I just mentioned are perfectly legal. 

Quote:I think you're going to regret it myself. You already lost half the country.

Half of what? Half the territory of the United States? Alaska and Montana together have huge territory -- and only seven electoral votes after the 2020 Census. Connecticut has as many electoral votes and very little territory. Cattle? Cotton? Corn? Wheat? Maybe. Cactus? Whoops! Arizona went to Biden.

Joe Biden won the popular vote, 81 million to 74 million. Of course, getting the plurality or even the majority of the popular vote might fall short, as in 2000 and 2016. This time Biden won the Electoral College 306-232. Those are the votes that count. 

The Democratic side has more of the economic activity. 

It's your side that has lost more than half of the country -- the thinking half.   

Quote:Do you want to know what the cities are to us? The city is where we have go to see a sports event or concert or go to work for some or drive through to get some where else.

The city is where someone decides whether you have credit or not. It is where your car is manufactured. It is where people make most of the movies that you watch. It is where the books that influence your life are published. It is where your music is recorded. It is where news comes from as broadcast. It is the ports where things come into your country. It is where the renowned colleges, universities, and scientific laboratories are. It is where the cutting-edge medicine is done. The best-known hospital in Minnesota is in Rochester, and I suppose that that is a city... am I right?

The Twin Cities are the head of navigation of the Mississippi River (you can't get past St. Anthony Falls by boat), and much of its activity is grain milling. I can assure you that much of your business is done in the Twin Cities.  

Quote:I don't have any slave owners in my long ancestry either.

My ancestry is long, too. I must warn you that many African-Americans have slave owners who raped some slave woman as ancestors. There's much antipathy at such ancestors... I wonder why!

I have German ancestry, and I surely have genetic connections to Holocaust perpetrators. I have ancestors named Hess (as in Rudolf, Deputy Fuhrer under Hitler and culpable for much of the crimes of the Third Reich) and Funk (as in Walter, President of the Reichsbank during World War II and effectively the fence of loot stolen from victims of the Reich). My mother's maiden name is the original surname of a Hungarian general executed by Yugoslavia after the Second World War for crimes against humanity. He was of German origin, and his ancestors came from the eastern part of the old Kingdom of Baden-Wuerttemberg. 

I hate Nazis.     

Quote:If there's a Civil War, we won't fighting over slavery this time around.

I have been afraid that it would be like Spain in the 1930's, where a large part of the country was as modern as any part of the world -- even the USA -- and slightly more had their bodies in the 20th century and their social attitudes in the late middle ages. The medieval mind, whose only concession to modernity was to the technology of war and repression, won in Spain. 

It would be as in Spain between modernity and reaction.    

Quote:You won't be able to take our guns away but you can try and see what happens as a result.

We have no plans to take away your precious guns unless you are a criminal or a lunatic or if you pose an obvious risk (like Trump's former campaign manager Brad Parscale) to himself or loved ones. .

Quote:So, how many US soldiers would be willing fight for their rights being taken away these days?

How many soldiers would fight to defend a dictator who extends his term as President unlawfully (which is one of the classic means of establishing a dictatorship)? How many soldiers would obey orders to kill political dissidents? How many soldiers would commit war crimes on behalf of a despotic leader?

Quote:What you don't get is that if the government has the power to remove one Constitutional right then it has the right to remove all of them at that point.

No, here is the Second Amendment:

Quote:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[35]

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It's about a militia necessary for the enforcement of the law; suppression of Indian attacks, pirate raids; and slave revolts (now of course obsolete); and formation of state equivalents of the National Guard. The right to bear arms is no more absolute than freedom of speech (I do not have the right to go into a bank or a store and say "This is a stick-up", if I am in business I have no right to do false advertising or to speak in a way in which to facilitate a fraud).   

from Wikipedia:

Quote:In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendments [sic] means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."[15] In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".[16][17]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#cite_note-crs2a-17]
Apparently the government can prohibit me from possessing guns disguised as something clearly not a gun (let us say a cane or an umbrella), grenades, bombs, Katusha rockets, tanks, or nuclear warheads. 

Quote:No, if you want to get rid of guns then California would have to declare it's independence and break with United States of America and the same goes for the North Eastern states as well. Personally, I think getting rid of a bunch of stinking rotten blue  cities would be a good thing for the environment myself.

Uhhh... Minnesota is one of those "rotten" states which is historically one of the most reliable states to vote for Democratic nominees. It was the only state to vote against Ronald Reagan in his 49-state landslide in 1984.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-03-2020, 05:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 01:15 AM)Einzige Wrote: The capitalists are the problem. Capital is always the problem.

I see the whole pattern of the Agricultural Age as the problem.  Too much power in the hands of the elites, with too much tribal thinking.  The Cousin's Wars describes the start of the porcess of moving away from that pattern.  The crises of recent times show how each major conflict removes a flaw of that pattern from the culture... kings, slaves, dictators, racists, etc...

Communism is a last attempt to maintain autocratic government, to maintain the Agricultural Age.  While in many ways they talk about progress and revolution against the old ways, the revolutions have always been in countries close to the Agricultural Age pattern whose culture leads the leaders to continue the Agricultural Age way.  While in many ways I can sympathize with the goal of revolting against the abuses of the elite, without the Enlightenment and non violent tools they have only wound up replacing the existing elites with another group of elites.  They have not provided a short of violence check on the power of the elites.

While most won't describe it that way, they have come to recognize Marxism as a failure, unworthy of support, and the Marxists have become irrelevant to the ongoing conflict between the Ages.  The struggle has gone on in the US without the Marxists ever becoming one of the two dominant philosophies.  It is likely now to continue that way, a ghost of a failed philosophy.

The struggle continues without them.  This crisis, the Republicans favor the elites and the racists.  The major points of conflict include too much wealth and power for the elites, racism, COVID, and perhaps global warming.  Another crisis, another step further away from the Agricultural Age pattern.

Einzige is dealing with a dead philosophy which is no longer relevant to the conflict.  Classic is supporting the old values, mistakenly falling for the propaganda of the elites.  Neither are getting rid of elements of the Agricultural Age and thus making the culture better.  They are trying to make creating a more perfect union not American.

We will see.  There is another holiday surge on top of a surge due.  The elitist in chief has a bunch of lawsuits lurking.  The economy is such that the elites are the only source of available capital.  The greenhouse gasses are building, riding the old idea that the environment is there to exploit.  I'm trying to preserve hope that the crisis could continue the long tradition of abuse left behind.  The loyalty to the old ways is still there.  They have pushed the old ways rather than go along with progress enough to prevent the crisis from becoming hard.

We shall see.

A group of elites managed to turn MEGA hats into symbols associated with racism and idiots like bought into it. You's guys better be careful about what you go along with because turning your world into a war zone similar to what was seen in Iraq is more possible today. You helped placed lives at risk with your ignorance and stupidity. Do you want us to treat BLM;s the same as you treated MAGA's. We can and we will if that's the rules of the game from here on. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT YOU FUCKING IDIOT TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

You keep using racist to describe us and something happens to a lot of us, we're coming for you son of a bitches and I don't give a fuck if you have Asperger's or you're missing some brain matter after having a tumor removed and you're stuck in a wheel chair. A lot of you are going to die. We are at the point where if a bomb goes off in Minneapolis it's going to kill a bunch of Democratic supporters. Heavy blue areas on maps aren't hard to see or find these days. WAKE UP!! You guys are so fucking stupid it's unbelievable these days. You'd think you'd learn from what happened this summer. FDR was elected to prevent an internal Civil War from starting. I'm sorry dude but climate change takes a back seat to more important issues relevant to the issues today. The nation is already transitioning and I expect we will continue transitioning.

[Einzige]

You are living resentment. Take it from someone who has lived in resentment his whole life long.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-06-2020, 04:23 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: A group of elites managed to turn MEGA hats into symbols associated with racism and idiots like bought into it.

I think elites and racism were with MAGA and Trumpism from the start.  Trump used these aspects of the cavalier culture, the notion that America was for a few privileged and a lot of racists.  This was a feature to be embraced by Trump, a tool to be used.  I don't think the elites or racists were idiots.  They knew full well what they were associating with.  They were happy to be enabled by Trump.  

If Trump was a blowback to Obama, the protests were a blowback against racism. I guess he who blows back last blows back best?

The Republican Party has always been the party of the Robber Barons and elites.  That dates from way back in Civil War times, when the Republicans were the progressives enabling expansion and he industrial revolution.  The land owning rural aristocracy were the conservatives who wanted things to continue with the existing power structure.  With the Southern Strategy the Republicans finished the switch from allying with the abolitionists to allying with the KKK.

Like it or not, that is the Republican brand.  Being a rabid Trump follower means buying into supporting the dubious benefits of the elites and racists.  Not all conservatives are thrilled with the association, but it is impossible to shake while the Trump hold on the Republican base is solid.

There are some conservative ideas worth keeping and proclaiming, but the affinity for the elites and racists will have to go before the party becomes a viable big tent organization again.  Search the bottom of your shoe.  You know it is true.

(12-06-2020, 04:23 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You's guys better be careful about what you go along with because turning your world into a war zone similar to what was seen in Iraq is more possible today.

That is just your obsession with violence and tribal thinking.  America is supposedly for a certain people, and others are oppressed and hated.  It is prevalent in Iraq today.  The Sunis, Shiites, Jews, Kurds and name your tribe are all into hating the other guy.  Seeing it become common in America seems unlikely, at least extending it into violence.  Sure, groups like the Boogaloo Bois, looters,  bad cops, Proud Boys and Wolverine Watchmen took advantage of the protest environment to act out their violent tribal thinking.  If the new administration passes comprehensive anti racism legislation preventing the need for the people to speak even more clearly, the violence goes away and those obsessed with violence can crawl back into their basements.  With the winter turning cold and the new administration coming in, the violence has faded until the warm weather comes back.  By then, enough time will have passed to see if the legislation is going to happen.

[David Horn]

(12-03-2020, 01:15 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:24 AM)Einzige Wrote: God, you people are fucking stupid.

Guns?

Quote:Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

It's similar to our 2nd Amendment. Yeah, we are stupid I guess. Whatever.

The capitalists are the problem. Capital is always the problem.

There's plenty of blame to share.  Capital wouldn't have the freedom to abuse it does if "the people" actually demanded that it end.  In fact, the people hurt the worst scream for capitalism the loudest, and the Constitution empowers them the most -- far greater than their numbers should expect.  So your complaint needs to be addressed, but the focus needs to be on selling to the people who should care but don't.

[David Horn]

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce...

Well, not quite.  We're #2, with 4% of the world's population.  When you look at per capita contribution and ability to do better, we stand at the top of the list with the UK and Germany all roughly as bad.  China and India aren't even in contention in that context.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-06-2020, 03:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you think the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who blamed the Jews for everything wrong with Germany.

The GOP during the Trump Presidency has done everything possible to frustrate efforts to mitigate existing or to prevent further climate change. Trump has been in the pocket of the fossil-fuel industry. 

Quote:I think Biden won the election but I don't think he won it fair and square. As a general rule, candidates don't win an election by staying home the bulk of the time.

They used to. Trump was far more reckless about going out in public to campaign, especially in venues in which people felt free to not wear masks. Trump's political rallies are super-spreader events. 

You can trust that were it not for COVID-19, Joe Biden would have appeared in more places. Significantly we Democrats did not do two of the usual things that we do in electoral campaigns, which is (1) to canvass (it works -- yes, it really does), and (2) to be ready to take people to the polling place if they need a ride. That can be the difference in turnout. I trust that COVID-19 will be gone, and we Democrats will be up to our old tricks. The tricks that I just mentioned are perfectly legal. 

Quote:I think you're going to regret it myself. You already lost half the country.

Half of what? Half the territory of the United States? Alaska and Montana together have huge territory -- and only seven electoral votes after the 2020 Census. Connecticut has as many electoral votes and very little territory. Cattle? Cotton? Corn? Wheat? Maybe. Cactus? Whoops! Arizona went to Biden.

Joe Biden won the popular vote, 81 million to 74 million. Of course, getting the plurality or even the majority of the popular vote might fall short, as in 2000 and 2016. This time Biden won the Electoral College 306-232. Those are the votes that count. 

The Democratic side has more of the economic activity. 

It's your side that has lost more than half of the country -- the thinking half.   

Quote:Do you want to know what the cities are to us? The city is where we have go to see a sports event or concert or go to work for some or drive through to get some where else.

The city is where someone decides whether you have credit or not. It is where your car is manufactured. It is where people make most of the movies that you watch. It is where the books that influence your life are published. It is where your music is recorded. It is where news comes from as broadcast. It is the ports where things come into your country. It is where the renowned colleges, universities, and scientific laboratories are. It is where the cutting-edge medicine is done. The best-known hospital in Minnesota is in Rochester, and I suppose that that is a city... am I right?

The Twin Cities are the head of navigation of the Mississippi River (you can't get past St. Anthony Falls by boat), and much of its activity is grain milling. I can assure you that much of your business is done in the Twin Cities.  

Quote:I don't have any slave owners in my long ancestry either.

My ancestry is long, too. I must warn you that many African-Americans have slave owners who raped some slave woman as ancestors. There's much antipathy at such ancestors... I wonder why!

I have German ancestry, and I surely have genetic connections to Holocaust perpetrators. I have ancestors named Hess (as in Rudolf, Deputy Fuhrer under Hitler and culpable for much of the crimes of the Third Reich) and Funk (as in Walter, President of the Reichsbank during World War II and effectively the fence of loot stolen from victims of the Reich). My mother's maiden name is the original surname of a Hungarian general executed by Yugoslavia after the Second World War for crimes against humanity. He was of German origin, and his ancestors came from the eastern part of the old Kingdom of Baden-Wuerttemberg. 

I hate Nazis.     

Quote:If there's a Civil War, we won't fighting over slavery this time around.

I have been afraid that it would be like Spain in the 1930's, where a large part of the country was as modern as any part of the world -- even the USA -- and slightly more had their bodies in the 20th century and their social attitudes in the late middle ages. The medieval mind, whose only concession to modernity was to the technology of war and repression, won in Spain. 

It would be as in Spain between modernity and reaction.    

Quote:You won't be able to take our guns away but you can try and see what happens as a result.

We have no plans to take away your precious guns unless you are a criminal or a lunatic or if you pose an obvious risk (like Trump's former campaign manager Brad Parscale) to himself or loved ones. .

Quote:So, how many US soldiers would be willing fight for their rights being taken away these days?

How many soldiers would fight to defend a dictator who extends his term as President unlawfully (which is one of the classic means of establishing a dictatorship)? How many soldiers would obey orders to kill political dissidents? How many soldiers would commit war crimes on behalf of a despotic leader?

Quote:What you don't get is that if the government has the power to remove one Constitutional right then it has the right to remove all of them at that point.

No, here is the Second Amendment:

Quote:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[35]

[/url]
It's about a militia necessary for the enforcement of the law; suppression of Indian attacks, pirate raids; and slave revolts (now of course obsolete); and formation of state equivalents of the National Guard. The right to bear arms is no more absolute than freedom of speech (I do not have the right to go into a bank or a store and say "This is a stick-up", if I am in business I have no right to do false advertising or to speak in a way in which to facilitate a fraud).   

from Wikipedia:

Quote:In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendments [sic] means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."[15] In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".[16][17]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#cite_note-crs2a-17]
Apparently the government can prohibit me from possessing guns disguised as something clearly not a gun (let us say a cane or an umbrella), grenades, bombs, Katusha rockets, tanks, or nuclear warheads. 

Quote:No, if you want to get rid of guns then California would have to declare it's independence and break with United States of America and the same goes for the North Eastern states as well. Personally, I think getting rid of a bunch of stinking rotten blue  cities would be a good thing for the environment myself.

Uhhh... Minnesota is one of those "rotten" states which is historically one of the most reliable states to vote for Democratic nominees. It was the only state to vote against Ronald Reagan in his 49-state landslide in 1984.

Biden couldn't handle the rigors of a regular campaign in his current condition. I heard he recently fractured his foot while playing outside with his dog which tells me he's probably losing his perception too. I'd say he'll be in office less than two years. He shouldn't have ran for office in his condition. Minnesota is still highly subsidized which is why it's been so reliably Democratic for so long. We have an issue between the taxpayers and the big government recipients that's becoming more clear and more of a problem every year. You're on the big government dole along with millions of other voters these days. The State of Minnesota has a couple rotten apples called Minneapolis and St.Paul. The Democratic party is more or less a business of its own at this point. The Republican party is in the process of becoming America's party. We have some more house cleaning to do but it's getting there.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-06-2020, 11:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce...

Well, not quite.  We're #2, with 4% of the world's population.  When you look at per capita contribution and ability to do better, we stand at the top of the list with the UK and Germany all roughly as bad.  China and India aren't even in contention in that context.

The vast majority of the world lives in primitive shacks and huts and dumps their raw sewage and garbage into rivers and streams or lakes. As far as modernized countries/developed nations as they say, we are one of the best considering our size and population compared to Germany and the UK. You keep forgetting about our size and population compared to other European countries. Like I said, we are about the same as Europe these days and we use more petroleum and pay a lot less for it than them as well. Did you know the bulk of the plastic floating in the Pacific comes from India? I hope your not fixated more on our wealth and lifestyles like third worlders are always more fixated on them these days. Didn't you just say that Marxism was a dream and that's it? If so, maybe you should find a way to forget about it and let go of it all together. Marxism is an old value that should no longer have any value these days. Disguising it or pretending it's something else doesn't work anymore these days. Well it still kind of works for lots of clueless people on the Left these days.

[pbrower2a]

(12-07-2020, 02:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-06-2020, 11:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce...

Well, not quite.  We're #2, with 4% of the world's population.  When you look at per capita contribution and ability to do better, we stand at the top of the list with the UK and Germany all roughly as bad.  China and India aren't even in contention in that context.

The vast majority of the world lives in shacks and huts and dumps raw sewage and garbage into rivers and streams or lakes. As far as modern countries/developed nations as they say, we are one of the best considering our size and population.

That is not an excuse for our American carbon footprint. What is now the Developed World used to drain its sewage, untreated, into rivers and streams. That led to cholera outbreaks. A city like New York could get away with that when it had a small population... and so could Mumbai until it became a giant city... 

Global warming threatens to inundate huge amounts of low-lying real estate, much of it in places that now live in shacks and huts... and they typically lack the means to go elsewhere, even in their own countries. Resettling them will be great costs to countries incapable of raising the tax revenue for doing so. Add to this... it will disrupt much of the agriculture that makes people able and willing to do work. Global warming can starve people by inundating farmland that feeds the people in their newly-developing manufacturing sectors, and by disrupting the growth of crops finely tuned to climatic conditions that now exist. You may hate blizzards, but they protect soil moisture for the delicate crops germinating or starting their times of rapid growth in the spring. Unseasonable warm spells in February and March can start some crops such as "winter wheat"... the wheat with the highest protein value. In case you are curious, there are soft and hard varieties, the soft wheat ground to make the most common flours, and the hard one (durum) going heavily into pasta. A late-winter warm spell can get the grain to start prematurely only to expose it to more normal winter weather.

City-slickers like you get complacent about the food supply when shortages don't happen. When they do, life gets nasty. Food shortages create political chaos and disrupt economies. Global warming will make a mess out of the world's food supply.   

Quote:(Pure bosh)

Global warming can mess the world up even worse than Marxism-Leninism.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-06-2020, 03:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: No, here is the Second Amendment:

Quote:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[35]

[/url]
It's about a militia necessary for the enforcement of the law; suppression of Indian attacks, pirate raids; and slave revolts (now of course obsolete); and formation of state equivalents of the National Guard. The right to bear arms is no more absolute than freedom of speech (I do not have the right to go into a bank or a store and say "This is a stick-up", if I am in business I have no right to do false advertising or to speak in a way in which to facilitate a fraud).   

from Wikipedia:

Quote:In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendments [sic] means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."[15] In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".[16][17]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#cite_note-crs2a-17]
Apparently the government can prohibit me from possessing guns disguised as something clearly not a gun (let us say a cane or an umbrella), grenades, bombs, Katusha rockets, tanks, or nuclear warheads. 

No right guarantees the right to harm others or restrict other's rights.  It is correct to say as above that no right is absolute, but you should quote what the limits are.  You should not say because rights have limits, rights are meaningless.

Cruikshank in 1876 was a ruling by the Jim Crow Supreme Court.  They were paving the way to remove all rights so they could oppress the blacks.  It was a political deal.  The Republicans got the presidency.  The Democrats got the south back.  Most of these Jim Crow court cases have been clearly reversed, including this one.

Miller was an attempt to disarm gangsters based on the logic of the Jim Crow decisions.  The government was trying to forbid gangsters from carrying shotguns and tommy guns, which had no military use at the time.  Unfortunately, tommy guns were the early assault weapons, and became commonly used by the US military by World War II.  Shotguns were commonly carried in Vietnam.  Miller sets up a litmus test that essentially says everyone has a right to own and carry assault weapons and shotguns.

Arms that are disguised as something else are still arms.  With the Jim Crow understanding that the government could regulate non militia arms, it made sense to limit disguised arms.  With the right firmly an individual right that cannot be infringed, there is far less justification for the laws against disguised arms.

Now nukes are arms too.  So are hand grenades, weapons carried by common infantrymen with a direct bearing on the militia.  Just because the Founding Fathers did not anticipate weapons development doesn't mean there isn't a need to amend the Second today.  It should be possible to forbid certain military arms while allowing folks to own and carry civilian arms.  Compromise has proven difficult.  The reds are correct according to the text of the amendment and the intent of the authors.  The blues are correct by a century of Jim Crow precedent and common sense.  Each is hoping for a total victory and is not willing to yield.

Being willing to listen and compromise seems necessary.  Instead we get extremists uttering half truths.

[Eric the Green]

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-02-2020, 08:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I just have a feeling that 2020 isn't over.  The hospitals are on the brink of overloading.  Thanksgiving is apt to cause another holiday surge on top of the current surge.  Trump seems to be going for pardons over revenge.  He is seeking money for his next life while the legal cases are pending.

I keep waiting for the base to wake up.  They ought to wake up.  If they don't, they deserve what is coming.

Nope. 2020 is going to extend well into 2022. The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years. The Democratic base is groggy, clueless, still dreaming and wishful thinking. So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever. AOC says that we are going to die in ten years unless we spend Trillions and eliminate evil industries today but the plan is over thirty years. ARE THERE ANY LIBERALS WHO UNDERSTAND MATH or ARE ANY GOOD AT MATH? Since we're all going to be dead in years I've noticed we only have spend 3 Trillion so we can all die feeling good about ourselves. Sounds comical but Liberals are pretty comical these days but it seems to work for largely disconnected Democratic voters/supporters these days. 

Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China? The polar bears will adapt.  So, what are we going to do about it? Are you going to change Mother Nature? Did you know that our carbon footprint is less than a quarter of China's? More of the same as far as what we seen last summer? Are the blacks going to take power and begin enslaving whites? Are our guns going to be taken away by crazy Liberals? The Republican base is awake Bob.

You Republicans are falling ever more to sleep. You are almost comatose. Fantasy is your reality. Who are you guys to talk about math, for goodness sakes? LOL

Republicans caused climate change, and are quite happy with it and vote to expand it. It keeps their gas guzzlers humming and the oil and gas profits coming. We could certainly change our energy system in ten years, but we can't solely because of you guys. China is much more efficient at getting things done, and no, their footprint is about the same size as the USA's, and I expect them to make the transition faster than the USA, which already had a 30-year head start.

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature (the actress who portrayed her just passed away). And you still deny human-caused climate change. My my, do you deny the value of facemasks too? Do you think Trump was cheated out of the election? Are vaccines a plot by Bill Gates to implant control devices? Are all Democrats pedophiles? Were gun massacres staged? Are you being attacked by chemtrails? Did aliens bring down the twin towers?

No-one knows for sure how many years we have before we die from this climate disaster. It is not as cut and dried as that, and how quick the transition needs to really be is not known in exact detail. I expect humanity to survive, but what I keep asking is whether we should give up our civilization, our beaches, our leisure time, our creativity and our culture, our homes, our heritage, and more; just so a few oil, gas and coal barons are not inconvenienced? Is it really worth all that? Is it so good that maybe the human race will barely survive their greed? That's the best you'll give us? 

Gee, I hope we can take your guns away. Nothing would make me happier. Although raising your taxes to socialist levels would be about as much fun. The things you care about make me want to vomit. But it's a good idea you have there about what the black lives matter protesters wanted; maybe we should insist not only on reparations for the descendants of slaves, but give the enslavers a lot of their own medicine. Not me, of course; I have no slavemasters in my long American ancestry.

If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce.

No, it is the only sane view. Republicans since the 1970s have backed politicians who oppose pollution regulation, climate change regulation, and alternative energy development. Reagan took the solar panels down from the White House that Carter had put up, which symbolized Reagan's policies of supporting fossil fuels, the burning of which causes climate change. The graphs we have posted here countless times shows that global warming took a giant leap upward from Reagan's term onward. Republicans have continued to oppose and stop the policies of pollution regulation, climate change regulation, and alternative energy development. Trump pulled out of the Paris Accord and thus stopped all of the USA's power to persuade and make deals to get China and other countries to speed up their energy transition to renewables. I don't know how much more of a causal connection you can make. You are wrong on your facts. The USA has come down and China has not, but India still far below, and Europe below the USA in emissions. But your side is not interested in facts.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countr...by-country
https://www.statista.com/statistics/2059...by-region/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/2705...y-country/

Each Country's Share of CO2 Emissions
Published Jul 16, 2008 Updated Aug 12, 2020

Quote:I think Biden won the election but I don't think he won it fair and square. The Democratic party pulled out the stops and cheated and won it for him. As a general rule, candidates don't win national elections by limiting their campaigning/campaigns and being able to stay home the bulk of the time. Plus, I've never seen a corporation like Google or Facebook/Twitter having the power and authority to control free speech and censor pertinent information either. Plus, I've never seen a bunch of states change their laws or use mass balloting just prior to an election either. Plus, I've never seen a Presidential candidate showing obvious signs of dementia get elected without being questioned about it either. I heard a Left Wing Brit who said Trump not conceding was the greatest threat to our democracy but it's pretty clear the bitch wasn't here to witness what we experienced or what we watched occur happen during this election. I think you're going to regret going along with the Democratic party and voting for Biden myself. As a general rule, people aren't fond of being tricked by a classic bait and switch or having pertinent information withheld from them. Of course, you'll still blame us for it anyways. You already lost half the country forever because we know what the Democratic party is about these days. What the Democrats say its about doesn't jive with what we see these days. It's a disaster waiting to happen at this point. Grid lock is not what you need but what you're going to get and if you go back to slim majorities having the power it will come back to bite you like it did with the judges.

You guys are indeed to blame for everything wrong with America. You guys should wear MAW hats: Make America Worse.

Biden did suffer a decline in the election returns from what the polls said, essentially his margin of victory being cut in half, and Democrats lost ground in the House and so far have failed to take back the Senate. That was probably due to the Trump team's greater willingness to wage door to door ground campaigns. Trump's rallies were shown by Chuck Todd on Meet the Press to be counter-productive. Biden didn't stay home the bulk of the time, but you keep parroting that Hannity/Ingraham Fox talking point, because that's all you watch for your news. You live in a bubble, and thus the AG's report and the decisions of 40 judges that Trump has no fraud case make no impression on you. Just as Trump ignored the pandemic and sponsored super-spreader events, so he and you called it fraudulent to offer many more mail-in ballots so people could vote safely. As for Google and Facebook et al, their behavior depends on your point of view. What you call censorship, others call an inadequate job of fact checking and removal of malicious lies and conspiracy theory and threats to peoples' safety. Biden may be old, but he's doing well and is fully articulate, despite some signs of dementia in early primary debates. So you no longer have a case there either. He was the only candidate running who could have won, as the horoscope scores show. If no-one better stepped up to run, which no-one did, then we had no other choice but Joe.

Quote:Do you want to know what the cities mean to us? The cities are where we have go to see a sports event or concert or go to work for some or travel through to get some place else. I don't have any slave owners in my long ancestry either. If there's a Civil War, we won't fighting over slavery this time around because every black person in this country is free whether they feel like it or not. You won't be able to take our guns away but you can try and see what happens as a result. I'd actually welcome it myself knowing the outcome wouldn't be in your favor. Emotional twits don't think and the Democratic side has the overwhelming majority of the emotional twits on its side these days. I doubt to many US soldiers would be willing to fight for their rights being taken away these days. You always forget that you live in a country with a government that doesn't have the freedom to remove our Constitutional rights and the army that's in place is there to keep it that way. So, unless you want a war with us and them I'd suggest that you leave the second amendment alone.

If there is a civil war, your side would be fighting to make sure you can discriminate against blacks or kill them on the street for no reason, about which you and your side has no objection. You think any effort to help them out of the poverty and wealth gap that you guys imposed on them is socialism, so under your rule they would stay poor and as dispossessed as they were after the civil war. Most people of color would move away from a Red America and leave you guys without enough labor and service workers for your markets and industries. Not having any immigrants either would also cripple your labor pool, and the fact that most rich bosses know a good thing and can afford to live in blue states would rob you of some of your executive talent too, not to mention smart young techies and artists and teachers who would complete their ongoing migration out of your foresaken lands. Perhaps our Blue America could pass laws requiring your bosses to live in your states or give up their ownership and leadership rights. If they want to oppress their people, they should move to where their people live and suffer the consequences.

We could leave the second amendment alone, and still pass gun control that you would call "not leaving the second amendment alone." I would be willing to compromise on the issue, but your side is not willing. Myself I have zero respect for the second amendment, or your stupid, depraved gun rights, and I would support the second amendment's total removal and replacement with strict confiscation of guns everywhere. But I don't have the majority of voters on my side on that position, even in blue states, and unlike you I recognize facts and am willing to deal with them.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-07-2020, 01:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-06-2020, 01:19 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-05-2020, 09:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-03-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-02-2020, 08:40 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I just have a feeling that 2020 isn't over.  The hospitals are on the brink of overloading.  Thanksgiving is apt to cause another holiday surge on top of the current surge.  Trump seems to be going for pardons over revenge.  He is seeking money for his next life while the legal cases are pending.

I keep waiting for the base to wake up.  They ought to wake up.  If they don't, they deserve what is coming.

Nope. 2020 is going to extend well into 2022. The Republican base is awake and has been awake for years. The Democratic base is groggy, clueless, still dreaming and wishful thinking. So, what's coming Bob? Is climate change coming or is climate change here forever? I assume climate change is here forever. AOC says that we are going to die in ten years unless we spend Trillions and eliminate evil industries today but the plan is over thirty years. ARE THERE ANY LIBERALS WHO UNDERSTAND MATH or ARE ANY GOOD AT MATH? Since we're all going to be dead in years I've noticed we only have spend 3 Trillion so we can all die feeling good about ourselves. Sounds comical but Liberals are pretty comical these days but it seems to work for largely disconnected Democratic voters/supporters these days. 

Well, if we are going to die and the world is going to starve or die of thirst or be flooded out of house and home due to rising seas, the 1st priority should be exterminating China? The polar bears will adapt.  So, what are we going to do about it? Are you going to change Mother Nature? Did you know that our carbon footprint is less than a quarter of China's? More of the same as far as what we seen last summer? Are the blacks going to take power and begin enslaving whites? Are our guns going to be taken away by crazy Liberals? The Republican base is awake Bob.

You Republicans are falling ever more to sleep. You are almost comatose. Fantasy is your reality. Who are you guys to talk about math, for goodness sakes? LOL

Republicans caused climate change, and are quite happy with it and vote to expand it. It keeps their gas guzzlers humming and the oil and gas profits coming. We could certainly change our energy system in ten years, but we can't solely because of you guys. China is much more efficient at getting things done, and no, their footprint is about the same size as the USA's, and I expect them to make the transition faster than the USA, which already had a 30-year head start.

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature (the actress who portrayed her just passed away). And you still deny human-caused climate change. My my, do you deny the value of facemasks too? Do you think Trump was cheated out of the election? Are vaccines a plot by Bill Gates to implant control devices? Are all Democrats pedophiles? Were gun massacres staged? Are you being attacked by chemtrails? Did aliens bring down the twin towers?

No-one knows for sure how many years we have before we die from this climate disaster. It is not as cut and dried as that, and how quick the transition needs to really be is not known in exact detail. I expect humanity to survive, but what I keep asking is whether we should give up our civilization, our beaches, our leisure time, our creativity and our culture, our homes, our heritage, and more; just so a few oil, gas and coal barons are not inconvenienced? Is it really worth all that? Is it so good that maybe the human race will barely survive their greed? That's the best you'll give us? 

Gee, I hope we can take your guns away. Nothing would make me happier. Although raising your taxes to socialist levels would be about as much fun. The things you care about make me want to vomit. But it's a good idea you have there about what the black lives matter protesters wanted; maybe we should insist not only on reparations for the descendants of slaves, but give the enslavers a lot of their own medicine. Not me, of course; I have no slavemasters in my long American ancestry.

If you believe the Republicans are to blame for climate change, you're as a nuts as those who believed the Jews were responsible for everything wrong with Germany. Also, you should check your facts because China and India and Russia are the largest contributors of emissions. We're about the same as Europe despite us using more energy than Europe. Our portion of a continent was built for commerce.

No, it is the only sane view. Republicans since the 1970s have backed politicians who oppose pollution regulation, climate change regulation, and alternative energy development. Reagan took the solar panels down from the White House that Carter had put up, which symbolized Reagan's policies of supporting fossil fuels, the burning of which causes climate change. The graphs we have posted here countless times shows that global warming took a giant leap upward from Reagan's term onward. Republicans have continued to oppose and stop the policies of pollution regulation, climate change regulation, and alternative energy development. Trump pulled out of the Paris Accord and thus stopped all of the USA's power to persuade and make deals to get China and other countries to speed up their energy transition to renewables. I don't know how much more of a causal connection you can make. You are wrong on your facts. The USA and China are now equal, India still far below, and Europe below the USA in emissions. But your side is not interested in facts.

Quote:I think Biden won the election but I don't think he won it fair and square. The Democratic party pulled out the stops and cheated and won it for him.  As a general rule, candidates don't win national elections by limiting their campaigning/campaigns and being able to stay home the bulk of the time. Plus, I've never seen a corporation like Google or Facebook/Twitter having the power and authority to control free speech and censor pertinent information either. Plus, I've never seen a bunch of states change their laws or use mass balloting just prior to an election either. Plus, I've never seen a Presidential candidate showing  obvious signs of dementia get elected without being questioned about it either. I heard a Left Wing Brit who said Trump not conceding was the greatest threat to our democracy but it's pretty clear the bitch wasn't here to witness what we experienced or what we watched occur happen during this election. I think you're going to regret going along with the Democratic party and voting for Biden myself. As a general rule, people aren't fond of being tricked by a classic bait and switch or having pertinent information withheld from them.  Of course, you'll still blame us for it anyways. You already lost half the country forever because we know what the Democratic party is about these days. What the Democrats say its about doesn't jive with what we see these days. It's a disaster waiting to happen at this point. Grid lock is not what you need but what you're going to get and if you go back to slim majorities having the power it will come back to bite you like it did with the judges.

You guys are indeed to blame for everything wrong with America. You guys should wear MAW hats: Make America Worse.

Biden did suffer a decline in the election returns from what the polls said, essentially his margin of victory being cut in half, and Democrats lost ground in the House and so far have failed to take back the Senate. That was probably due to the Trump team's greater willingness to wage door to door ground campaigns. Trump's rallies were shown by Chuck Todd on Meet the Press to be counter-productive. Biden didn't stay home the bulk of the time, but you keep parroting that Hannity/Ingraham Fox talking point, because that's all you watch for your news. You live in a bubble, and thus the AG's report and the decisions of 40 judges that Trump has no fraud case make no impression on you. Just as Trump ignored the pandemic and sponsored super-spreader events, so he and you called it fraudulent to offer many more mail-in ballots so people could vote safely. As for Google and Facebook et al, their behavior depends on your point of view. What you call censorship, others call an inadequate job of fact checking and removal of malicious lies and conspiracy theory and threats to peoples' safety. Biden may be old, but he's doing well and is fully articulate, despite some signs of dementia in early primary debates. So you no longer have a case there either. He was the only candidate running who could have won, as the horoscope scores show. If no-one better stepped up to run, which no-one did, then we had no other choice but Joe.

Quote:Do you want to know what the cities mean to us? The cities are where we have go to see a sports event or concert or go to work for some or travel through to get some place else. I don't have any slave owners in my long ancestry either. If there's a Civil War, we won't fighting over slavery this time around because every black person in this country is free whether they feel like it or not.  You won't be able to take our guns away but you can try and see what happens as a result. I'd actually welcome it myself knowing the outcome wouldn't be in your favor. Emotional twits don't think and the Democratic side has the overwhelming majority of the emotional twits on its side these days. I doubt to many US soldiers would be willing to fight for their rights being taken away these days. You always forget that you live in a country with a government that doesn't have the freedom to remove our Constitutional rights and the army that's in place is there to keep it that way. So, unless you want a war with us and them I'd suggest that you leave the second amendment alone.

If there is a civil war, your side would be fighting to make sure you can discriminate against blacks or kill them on the street for no reason, about which you and your side has no objection. You think any effort to help them out of the poverty and wealth gap that you guys imposed on them is socialism, so under your rule they would stay poor and as dispossessed as they were after the civil war. Most people of color would move away from a Red America and leave you guys without enough labor and service workers for your markets and industries. Not having any immigrants either would also cripple your labor pool, and the fact that most rich bosses know a good thing and can afford to live in blue states would rob you of some of your executive talent too, not to mention smart young techies and artists and teachers who would complete their ongoing migration out of your foresaken lands. Perhaps our Blue America could pass laws requiring your bosses to live in your states or give up their ownership and leadership rights. If they want to oppress their people, they should move to where their people live and suffer the consequences.

We could leave the second amendment alone, and still pass gun control that you would call "not leaving the second amendment alone." I would be willing to compromise on the issue, but your side is not willing. Myself I have zero respect for the second amendment, or your stupid, depraved gun rights, and I would support the second amendment's total removal and replacement with strict confiscation of guns everywhere. But I don't have the majority of voters on my side on that position, even in blue states, and unlike you I recognize facts and am willing to deal with them.

Who said if you don't vote for me then your not black and then picked a running mate strictly on basis of their race and gender? Obama was a savvy con man and a privileged little dickhead who claimed that we were racists for knowing and understanding that about him. Yes. You could build a wall or iron curtain and trap everyone within or behind like the Soviets did with Berlin or the Nazi's did with the German people before the Soviets took over after World War II. Barrack and his elitist friends and professional colleagues have a pretty good gig going for themselves these days. It's to bad they're going to find themselves stuck and being overwhelmed by the anger and resentment that they've been feeding, creating and building up among their own for generations.