What about different countries?

[RambleBumble]

Hi guys,

So the fouth turning only look at the cycle of the US and may also a lot of western europe countries. They started their cycle at same time.
I would be interessted to have a disscussion about different countries and when their cycles started.
So i am live in Germany the cycle starts pretty same time then in the US. But i think about other european countries like turkey.
Maybe you hear about the turkish lira they have a big inflation and in my opinion it seems like there are further in the cyclus.
Also if you look at the histroy of turkey i think their "new era" started earlies about 1923. Thats really interessting.
Also would be intressted to discuss other countries and nations, like Spain, india, china etc.

So where you guys from? What do you think about cycles of other nations? Is there already a part at this forum for such topics?
Or you know some good sources about this topic ?

Thank you

[pbrower2a]

(12-09-2021, 03:18 AM)RambleBumble Wrote: Hi guys,

So the fouth turning only look at the cycle of the US and may also a lot of western europe countries. They started their cycle at same time.
I would be interessted to have a disscussion about different countries and when their cycles started.
So i am live in Germany the cycle starts pretty same time then in the US. But i think about other european countries like turkey.
Maybe you hear about the turkish lira they have a big inflation and in my opinion it seems like there are further in the cyclus.
Also if you look at the histroy of turkey i think their "new era" started earlies about 1923. Thats really interessting.
Also would be intressted to discuss other countries and nations, like Spain,  india, china etc.

So where you guys from? What do you think about cycles of other nations? Is there already a part at this forum for such topics?
Or you know some good sources about this topic ?

Thank you

Countries whose last completed Crisis Era ended with World War II (the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Japan, the Philippines, the USSR/Russia, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Thailand are on our timeline (V-J Day).  Countries whose last Crisis ended with a Communist takeover (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania) or a failed  Communist revolution soon after the end of World War II are just behind us in the generational cycle. A communist takeover is one of the biggest possible changes in a social order as it completely undoes the previous economic system and transforms the political realities. The consolidation of the Apartheid system in South Africa constitutes the  end of a Crisis. Even the deposition of a King isn't that severe (Italy, Greece, Nepal). World War II entailed huge destruction and genocide unlike anything since Genghiz Khan and Timur Lenk. The consolidation of Communist rule in the PRC in 1950 defines China as about five years behind the USA in the cycle.  The WWII Crisis in Germany is over with the formal severing of Germany into two different Republics, one capitalist (the Bundesrepublik) and one Commie (the DDR). Cuba's Crisis Era ends with the Bay of Pigs fiasco (American) or heroic defense (for those who think Fidel Castro wonderful).  India and Israel achieve the ends of their Crisis Eras with independence under harsh circumstances.

Oddly I do not see the dissolution of Communist rule in central and Balkan Europe and the former Soviet Union as Crisis Eras. The revolutions are generally non-violent (except in Romania) and did not culminate in mass death. It was wise of non-Communists to let bygones be bygones without the execution of Commies.  I do not so see the elimination of Apartheid in South Africa. Food is in my presence, so I have no desire to speak of Rwanda or the former Yugoslavia. 

Korea's Crisis was of course the Korean War with a metastable armistice.

[galaxy]

It appears that the former Soviet Union and associated communist states of Eastern Europe (though not all - Poland seems 4T, while Ukraine is ambiguous) are almost exactly one turning ahead of the "WWII group" of countries.

Algeria, potentially the only current unambiguous 3T country (I haven't done enough research) appears to be almost exactly one turning behind the "WWII group."

I continue to believe South Africa is in a 2T, with a 1T spanning from 1994 to a vague ending point at some point around 2010-2015.

South America is complicated. Several countries (Chile, Brazil, etc) seem to be ambiguous between 2T and 4T. More research is needed.

[Eric the Green]

(12-10-2021, 09:26 AM)galaxy Wrote: It appears that the former Soviet Union and associated communist states of Eastern Europe (though not all - Poland seems 4T, while Ukraine is ambiguous) are almost exactly one turning ahead of the "WWII group" of countries.

Algeria, potentially the only current unambiguous 3T country (I haven't done enough research) appears to be almost exactly one turning behind the "WWII group."

I continue to believe South Africa is in a 2T, with a 1T spanning from 1994 to a vague ending point at some point around 2010-2015.

South America is complicated. Several countries (Chile, Brazil, etc) seem to be ambiguous between 2T and 4T. More research is needed.

I tend to assume we are all on one global clock now, since we are one world civilization. But clocks set from the founding dates of nations may also have some relevance, as it was originally for the USA, European and UK saeculums that now set the world saeculum clock too. For Brazil and South America, the independence foundation dates of circa 1821 might be relevant. Using the Uranus 84-year cycle helps to track the clock. It would seem some 2T tendencies might apply there. Uranus is about 1/3 of the way from the Uranus Return (probably 2T), whereas for the USA using the 1607 and 1776 founding dates, we are approaching the Return (4T). This could have some significance in Eastern Europe and Russia and South Africa as well, since the early 1990s may have reset their clocks. If you use a founding date of circa 1991 for these countries, or 1994 for South Africa, that would result in a cycle just behind that of Brazil and South America. The "New World Order" declared by President Bush saw more national foundings than any other period in history. Astrologically, I predicted this because of the return of the Uranus conjunction with Neptune in 1821 in circa 1993.

In France, the cycle may be affected by the return of the Revolution, which happened in 1958, and this could be relevant to Algeria too, which refers to 1962 and was wrapped up with the 1958 events. Entering a 3T now would seem to be relevant for their cycles. But I think the world cycle is now also relevant for all countries.

[galaxy]

Algeria isn't "entering a 3T now," it's already a decade in. The Arab Spring marked the start of a 4T in most of that region of the world, but a 3T in Algeria.

[Eric the Green]

(12-11-2021, 02:00 PM)galaxy Wrote: Algeria isn't "entering a 3T now," it's already a decade in. The Arab Spring marked the start of a 4T in most of that region of the world, but a 3T in Algeria.

Since its national birthday would seem to be 1962, by normal reckoning that's almost 60 years and so would be entering a 3T. Do you think its clock is speeding up to join the world cycle and the rest of the Middle East? Quite possible. I would not speculate on why you think Algeria is well into a 3T. It seemed to avoid the worst of the Arab Spring and its aftermath though.

[RambleBumble]

(12-09-2021, 05:12 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Countries whose last completed Crisis Era ended with World War II (the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Japan, the Philippines, the USSR/Russia, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Thailand are on our timeline (V-J Day).  Countries whose last Crisis ended with a Communist takeover (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania) or a failed  Communist revolution soon after the end of World War II are just behind us in the generational cycle. A communist takeover is one of the biggest possible changes in a social order as it completely undoes the previous economic system and transforms the political realities. The consolidation of the Apartheid system in South Africa constitutes the  end of a Crisis. Even the deposition of a King isn't that severe (Italy, Greece, Nepal). World War II entailed huge destruction and genocide unlike anything since Genghiz Khan and Timur Lenk. The consolidation of Communist rule in the PRC in 1950 defines China as about five years behind the USA in the cycle.  The WWII Crisis in Germany is over with the formal severing of Germany into two different Republics, one capitalist (the Bundesrepublik) and one Commie (the DDR). Cuba's Crisis Era ends with the Bay of Pigs fiasco (American) or heroic defense (for those who think Fidel Castro wonderful).  India and Israel achieve the ends of their Crisis Eras with independence under harsh circumstances.

Oddly I do not see the dissolution of Communist rule in central and Balkan Europe and the former Soviet Union as Crisis Eras. The revolutions are generally non-violent (except in Romania) and did not culminate in mass death. It was wise of non-Communists to let bygones be bygones without the execution of Commies.  I do not so see the elimination of Apartheid in South Africa. Food is in my presence, so I have no desire to speak of Rwanda or the former Yugoslavia. 

Korea's Crisis was of course the Korean War with a metastable armistice.

Thank you for the comprehensive answers. I agree for the countries that were involved in WW II. But IMO also Germany have the same cycle. Seems the Breakdown of the Soviet Union is not mark a new Cycle. I think it was a almost peacefull transformation. And the BRD was not "changing" in a completly way. 
 
Why do you think Countries whose last Crisis ended with a Communist takeover (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania) are behind us in the generational cylcle? Does it not also started right after the WWII. So it should be very similar to us.
Also i would say differences like 5 years to China are not relevant, and the turnings may sync because of globalization.
And because China wants to become a world power and battles with the USA.

[pbrower2a]

(12-13-2021, 07:43 AM)RambleBumble Wrote:

(12-09-2021, 05:12 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Countries whose last completed Crisis Era ended with World War II (the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Japan, the Philippines, the USSR/Russia, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Thailand are on our timeline (V-J Day).  Countries whose last Crisis ended with a Communist takeover (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania) or a failed  Communist revolution soon after the end of World War II are just behind us in the generational cycle. A communist takeover is one of the biggest possible changes in a social order as it completely undoes the previous economic system and transforms the political realities. The consolidation of the Apartheid system in South Africa constitutes the  end of a Crisis. Even the deposition of a King isn't that severe (Italy, Greece, Nepal). World War II entailed huge destruction and genocide unlike anything since Genghiz Khan and Timur Lenk. The consolidation of Communist rule in the PRC in 1950 defines China as about five years behind the USA in the cycle.  The WWII Crisis in Germany is over with the formal severing of Germany into two different Republics, one capitalist (the Bundesrepublik) and one Commie (the DDR). Cuba's Crisis Era ends with the Bay of Pigs fiasco (American) or heroic defense (for those who think Fidel Castro wonderful).  India and Israel achieve the ends of their Crisis Eras with independence under harsh circumstances.

Oddly I do not see the dissolution of Communist rule in central and Balkan Europe and the former Soviet Union as Crisis Eras. The revolutions are generally non-violent (except in Romania) and did not culminate in mass death. It was wise of non-Communists to let bygones be bygones without the execution of Commies.  I do not so see the elimination of Apartheid in South Africa. Food is in my presence, so I have no desire to speak of Rwanda or the former Yugoslavia. 

Korea's Crisis was of course the Korean War with a metastable armistice.

Thank you for the comprehensive answers. I agree for the countries that were involved in WW II. But IMO also Germany have the same cycle. Seems the Breakdown of the Soviet Union is not mark a new Cycle. I think it was a almost peacefull transformation. And the BRD was not "changing" in a completly way. 
 
Why do you think Countries whose last Crisis ended with a Communist takeover (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania) are behind us in the generational cylcle? Does it not also started right after the WWII. So it should be very similar to us.
Also i would say differences like 5 years to China are not relevant, and the turnings may sync because of globalization.
And because China wants to become a world power and battles with the USA.

Seventy-five years after Joachim von Ribbentrop, Wilhelm Keitel, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Alfred Rosenberg, Hans Frank, Wilhelm Frick, Julius Streicher, Fritz Sauckel, Alfred Jodl,  Artur Seyss-Inquart went to Hell with ropes around their necks following the suicide of Hermann Goering (who surely went to the same place), the difference between a Crisis ending with the surrender of Japan and a Crisis being resolved with the Berlin Air Lift or the formation of separate German states in 1948 and 1949 is a triviality in that time scale. 

The imposition of a Communist regime is itself a Crisis act because it implies the destruction of the old relationships between investors, landlords, executives, and lenders on the one hand and the much-lauded proletariat.  A new, and usually harsher form of command replaces the more voluntary exchanges of capitalism or the command-and-control system of feudalism. Communist takeovers usually result in the obliteration of those who did well in the Old Order. Communism destroys or overpowers any possible competition or opposition. There may be a wave of arrests and either executions or very nasty imprisonments of people of the Old Order.  The overthrow of a Commie regime is not itself a Crisis; the anti-Communist revolutions were generally non-violent, and except for Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu the former Commie bosses rarely faced execution or brutal incarceration. Those overthrows occurred in a 3T, when libertarian tendencies are more powerful than any urge to violent revcolution.

Thus the last of the post-WWII Communist regimes except North Korea (Korean War),  Vietnam (taken over by Commies in two stages about thirty years apart), and the former Yugoslavia (civil war over dissolution much closer to this time) are clearly behind the USA in the cycle. The four years later for the Communist takeover of Mainland China don't mean much after seventy years.

[galaxy]

(12-11-2021, 10:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-11-2021, 02:00 PM)galaxy Wrote: Algeria isn't "entering a 3T now," it's already a decade in. The Arab Spring marked the start of a 4T in most of that region of the world, but a 3T in Algeria.

Since its national birthday would seem to be 1962, by normal reckoning that's almost 60 years and so would be entering a 3T. Do you think its clock is speeding up to join the world cycle and the rest of the Middle East? Quite possible. I would not speculate on why you think Algeria is well into a 3T. It seemed to avoid the worst of the Arab Spring and its aftermath though.

4T: Mid-1940s to mid-1960s, not completely clear*
1T: Mid-1960s to 1988
2T: 1988 to 2011
3T: 2011 to present
4T: Beginning around 2030? Perhaps the pandemic is the WW1/9-11 equivalent "alienating event."
Also notable is that a major revision to the constitution was approved by 66.7% of voters in November 2020 yet a huge wave of protests began in February 2021. Very 3T. Seems like it's certainly not a restful 3T in Algeria, much more USA-1850s than USA-1990s, a bit of a "2T-ish" 3T.

*shortest possible is 1947-1962, longest possible is 1945-1968.