Colin Kaepernick & The National Anthem

[Anthony '58]

In case you haven't heard, San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick refused to stand for the national anthem before Friday night's exhibition game at home against the Green Bay Packers, basically declaring his solidarity with Black Lives Matter as his motive for doing this.

It has been a rough time for Kaepernick of late: He is battling an injury to his left shoulder that he sustained in mid-season last year, and throughout this summer's training camp new 49ers head coach Chip Kelly has been broadly hinting that he is leaning toward starting Blaine Gabbert, who is 8-27 lifetime as an NFL starter, over Kaepernick, whose 31-22 record therein includes a 4-2 mark in the postseason, in which Gabbert has never participated, in the team's regular-season opener, at home against the newly-rechristened Los Angeles Rams at the 49ers' Santa Clara home in a Monday night game on September 12.  Kelly, for his part, is no stranger to race-based controversy, engineering the running off from the team of wide receiver DeSean Jackson during his stint as head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, while coddling fellow Eagles wide receiver Riley Cooper after Cooper regaled a black security guard with the N-word at a Kenny Chesney concert.

The controversy that Kaepernick's actions have generated is so hot that the NFL has disabled the comment feature in the article about the incident that appears on the league's web site.

But of course we don't believe in censorship here.

So opine away!

[Anthony '58]

Based on my intro, you can probably guess which poll option I voted for.

[Eric the Green]

Go Colin! I like a player who stands up (or refuses to stand up) for a good cause. Black lives matter! And the real question is, why are sports fans required to listen to that lousy song before every game? Do we really have to stand and sing to the religion of nationalism every damn time?

Traded? If he can't do that in the Bay Area, where can he? This is supposed to be a region that questions authority and supports liberal causes. When two Olympians from San Jose State gave the black salute in 1968, they were criticized. Now I can walk on my old campus and see statues to them.

[The Wonkette]

I was tempted to vote for "who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?" but decided to vote for free expression.

However, I do feel it is much ado about nothing, just like Gabby Douglas's hand placement during the playing of the National anthem at the Rio Olympics.

[Eric the Green]

Right. But for sure I won't be posting the "Star Spangled Banner" in the best songs ever thread! Even though I wrote new words for it.

[TnT]

It seems to me that to have some kind of coherent country, we need to have something in common from a cultural perspective.

If we decide to disagree about EVERYTHING, what kind of culture can we gather around? Must we be nothing more than a thousand armed camps, all hating all the others?

[Ragnarök_62]

Who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?  That's the poll quesiton.  For moi, it's who the fuck is Colin Kaepernick?

Then again, this is about fötbah.  I do not do fötbah whatsoever. The NFL etc. is a bunch of overpaid, overstuffed jocks who make way way too much money and their managers don't really belong to a city.  The managers should be tied to whatever stadium they're currently at.  Also, any city that builds a new stadium is the ultimate sucker in this.

[Ragnarök_62]

(08-29-2016, 01:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Right. But for sure I won't be posting the "Star Spangled Banner" in the best songs ever thread! Even though I wrote new words for it.

I would post it on my best songs ever.





We sinistrals   are just talented , man.

[Eric the Green]

(08-29-2016, 04:57 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?  That's the poll quesiton.  For moi, it's who the fuck is Colin Kaepernick?

Then again, this is about fötbah.  I do not do fötbah whatsoever. The NFL etc. is a bunch of overpaid, overstuffed jocks who make way way too much money and their managers don't really belong to a city.  The managers should be tied to whatever stadium they're currently at.  Also, any city that builds a new stadium is the ultimate sucker in this.

What suckers we are. We built a new stadium for Colin (49ers quarterback) and the boys in Santa Clara, financed by the jeans we wear. The jeans aren't even made in San Francisco anymore, and we used to have a small factory in San Jose too, and the company was founded in SF. All gone now. The glories of free trade. And the new stadium isn't even in San Francisco, even though they are still called the San Francisco 49ers. So yeah, just what city do they belong to? I'll never go see them!

But you could have posted Hendrix's "Banner" when we were doing 1969 on the best songs ever thread. But ya diddint.

[Eric the Green]

(08-29-2016, 04:31 PM)TnT Wrote: It seems to me that to have some kind of coherent country, we need to have something in common from a cultural perspective.

We were just discussing this on another thread. Culture comes from inspiration, I said, not from race or nationality. If America has a "common culture," it means that we have access to some of the same media and cultural heritage. But we don't all have to like the same songs, even if we have a national anthem and a few other virtual ones.

Anyway, Colin's statement does not need to be taken as dissing the national anthem. He was "speaking" in favor of human rights. And therefore, he was expressing what we have in common in that way (see below).




"Somewhere I read, that the greatness of America is the right to protest FOR right!"

Quote:If we decide to disagree about EVERYTHING, what kind of culture can we gather around? Must we be nothing more than a thousand armed camps, all hating all the others?

We gather around our RIGHT to disagree and hate each other!

Well, we don't have to "hate" each other, exactly. But what binds us is our Declaration, our Constitution (including its amendments, and our ability to amend it), and perhaps great speeches like the Gettysburg Address, "I Have a Dream," "Ask what you can do for your country," "the only thing we have to fear," etc.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-29-2016, 06:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-29-2016, 04:31 PM)TnT Wrote: It seems to me that to have some kind of coherent country, we need to have something in common from a cultural perspective.

We were just discussing this on another thread. Culture comes from inspiration, I said, not from race or nationality. If America has a "common culture," it means that we have access to some of the same media and cultural heritage. But we don't all have to like the same songs, even if we have a national anthem and a few other virtual ones.

Anyway, Colin's statement does not need to be taken as dissing the national anthem. He was "speaking" in favor of human rights. And therefore, he was expressing what we have in common in that way (see below).




"Somewhere I read, that the greatness of America is the right to protest FOR right!"

Quote:If we decide to disagree about EVERYTHING, what kind of culture can we gather around?  Must we be nothing more than a thousand armed camps, all hating all the others?

We gather around our RIGHT to disagree and hate each other!

Well, we don't have to "hate" each other, exactly. But what binds us is our Declaration, our Constitution (including its amendments, and our ability to amend it), and perhaps great speeches like the Gettysburg Address, "I Have a Dream," "Ask what you can do for your country," "the only thing we have to fear," etc.

He's dissing the American flag which he has the right to do in America. I don't stand to listen to the national anthem. I stand up, remove my hat and place my hand over my heart to honor the American flag as the nation anthem is played or performed. Do you see why I don't think you're a good fit for America? Do you understand why I don't view you as an American? What binds us is the American flag (our flag) which represents our Declaration, our Constitution, our freedoms, our history and the all the sacrifices and the progress that have been made since the beginning of our nation.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-29-2016, 04:57 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?  That's the poll quesiton.  For moi, it's who the fuck is Colin Kaepernick?

Then again, this is about fötbah.  I do not do fötbah whatsoever. The NFL etc. is a bunch of overpaid, overstuffed jocks who make way way too much money and their managers don't really belong to a city.  The managers should be tied to whatever stadium they're currently at.  Also, any city that builds a new stadium is the ultimate sucker in this.

What do you expect when the Robber Barons have the Democrats eating from their hands? You didn't actually believe that Obama was rugged enough to take on the rich.

[Eric the Green]

I guess because you're supposed to salute the flag and all that when you sing it at a game? I haven't been to a game like that since I was a kid, and I don't remember everyone doing that. Maybe we did, I don't remember. Back then, maybe I did. I know we stood and pledged allegiance to the flag every morning in school. When I became a substitute teacher, I think I did that once. I'm not sure.

No, I don't think what binds us is a symbol. What is most American is defending the rights of all Americans. It's not the symbol that counts; it's the reality that it stands for-- which is those rights. How can you honor the progress we have made, by opposing all progress today, which is what the Republicans do? The flag stands for the right not to salute it, to spit on it or burn it if that's what an American wants to do. That's free speech; even Justice Scalia agreed with this. No, Martin Luther King Jr. was right, and you're not, Mr. Classic Xer.

[Eric the Green]

Maybe this quote by Emmet Fox might have something for each of us: "Unless you are seeking to embody the American Spirit in your own personal life and conduct, you are no true American, even though you may have authentic Mayflower ancestry.

If you allow yourself to judge the worth of a man by anything except his character, if you discriminate against him for any reason that is outside of his own control, you are no true American. If you judge him by his parents, or his connections, or his external conditions, instead of by himself, you are no true American.

If you allow yourself to be hampered by any question of precedents or traditions, you are no true American. If you think that any kind of honest work can be degrading, you are no true American. If you would not rather be independent in plain surroundings, than dependent in luxury, you are no true American.

If you allow yourself to be dazzled by any exalted Office, or intimidated or hypnotized by pretentious titles or gorgeous uniforms of any kind, you are no true American.

And, unless you believe that the poorest boy or girl doing chores around the farm, or playing on the sidewalk of a great city is just as likely - given the opportunity - to turn out to be the greatest soul in the nation, as the child who is reared in the lap of luxury, you are no true American."

https://books.google.com/books?id=GGk-Aw...ox&f=false

http://www.communityofinfinitespirit.org...70EA1A7E3A

[Eric the Green]

(08-29-2016, 10:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2016, 04:57 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?  That's the poll quesiton.  For moi, it's who the fuck is Colin Kaepernick?

Then again, this is about fötbah.  I do not do fötbah whatsoever. The NFL etc. is a bunch of overpaid, overstuffed jocks who make way way too much money and their managers don't really belong to a city.  The managers should be tied to whatever stadium they're currently at.  Also, any city that builds a new stadium is the ultimate sucker in this.

What do you expect when the Robber Barons have the Democrats eating from their hands? You didn't actually believe that Obama was rugged enough to take on the rich.

Obama took them on as far as the Republicans and current ideology would allow him to.

Democrats eating from the hands of robber barons? I think you'd find if you looked that Republicans eat a lot more from their hands. But Democrats eat some too, it's true. The answer is to take money out of politics. Given that, the fact that all justices who voted for the Citizens United decision were Republican appointees, and all all who voted against it were Democratic appointees, and the fact that Democrats support reform and Republicans oppose it, should tell you all anyone needs to know about who's who in this regard.

[Eric the Green]

What this incident proves is how often Americans get upset over things they shouldn't get upset about, and don't get upset over things they should get upset about.

Remember Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction? How neanderthal can you get to be upset over that! Hey, that was at a football game too!

And because of that, dirty words have to be censored if broadcast, but don't have to be censored on cable. What nonsense American tolerate!

[Classic-Xer]

(08-29-2016, 10:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I guess because you're supposed to salute the flag and all that when you sing it at a game? I haven't been to a game like that since I was a kid, and I don't remember everyone doing that. Maybe we did, I don't remember. Back then, maybe I did. I know we stood and pledged allegiance to the flag every morning in school. When I became a substitute teacher, I think I did that once. I'm not sure.

No, I don't think what binds us is a symbol. What is American is defending the rights of all Americans. It's not the symbol that counts; it's the reality that it stands for-- which is those rights. How can you honor the progress we have made, by opposing all progress today, which is what the Republicans do? The flag stands for the right not to salute it, to spit on it or burn it if that's what an American wants to do. That's free speech; even Justice Scalia agreed with this. No, Martin Luther King Jr. was right, and you're not, Mr. Classic Xer.

Do criminals have rights to be criminals? Do criminals have the right to gun down people in public parks? Do blacks have a right to attack a cop and resist arrest or to steal stuff without concern about the cops? As I told you, the flag means more than just a symbol. Anyone who doesn't get it hasn't been an American for very long or simply doesn't care for America very much or is clueless. The flag represents all that is associated with America and its advancement as a nation. You have the right to purchase a flag and burn it if you choose to do so and view it as your right of expression. I don't have a problem with any of that anymore than I have a problem with people burning his jersey before the next home game. You are free to make a fool of yourself and damage your own image as much as you want. Ain't much progress today as far as the left is concerned. The left is still stuck on burning flags, still labeling soldiers as murderers, still chanting the same old anti-American memes, the same old anti-Republican bullshit and still supporting the same old control freaks. Would we be talking through our computers over the internet without Ronald Reagan and a movement towards supply side economics? BTW, if your looking for someone to blame then blame JFK because he moved us on the path towards more supply side economics by supporting it in 1960. AS I recall, MLK wanted his children to be judged by the content of their character not their skin color. I can do that, how bout you?

[Eric the Green]

(08-29-2016, 11:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2016, 10:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I guess because you're supposed to salute the flag and all that when you sing it at a game? I haven't been to a game like that since I was a kid, and I don't remember everyone doing that. Maybe we did, I don't remember. Back then, maybe I did. I know we stood and pledged allegiance to the flag every morning in school. When I became a substitute teacher, I think I did that once. I'm not sure.

No, I don't think what binds us is a symbol. What is American is defending the rights of all Americans. It's not the symbol that counts; it's the reality that it stands for-- which is those rights. How can you honor the progress we have made, by opposing all progress today, which is what the Republicans do? The flag stands for the right not to salute it, to spit on it or burn it if that's what an American wants to do. That's free speech; even Justice Scalia agreed with this. No, Martin Luther King Jr. was right, and you're not, Mr. Classic Xer.

Do criminals have rights to be criminals? Do criminals have the right to gun down people in public parks? Do blacks have a right to attack a cop and resist arrest or to steal stuff without concern about the cops?

NO, they certainly don't.

Quote: As I told you, the flag means more than just a symbol. Anyone who doesn't get it hasn't been an American for very long or simply doesn't care for America very much or is clueless. The flag represents all that is associated with America and its advancement as a nation. You have the right to purchase a flag and burn it if you choose to do so and view it as your right of expression. I don't have a problem with any of that anymore than I have a problem with people burning his jersey before the next home game. You are free to make a fool of yourself and damage your own image as much as you want.

I don't plan to, but I don't see any reason for fuss because Colin doesn't want to stand or even salute the flag at a ballgame. I will be impressed with peoples' defense of the flag when I see those same people support what the flag represents. They don't. They stand for regression on voting rights and many other rights, and are against the state helping those who need a helping hand, as we all might need someday, and for state investment in what capitalism refuses to invest in. They stand for destroying the land and environment on which the country stands.

Quote: Ain't much progress today as far as the left is concerned. The left is still stuck on burning flags, still labeling soldiers as murderers, still chanting the same old anti-American memes, the same old anti-Republican bullshit and still supporting the same old control freaks. Would we be talking through our computers over the internet without Ronald Reagan?

Ronald Reagan had next to nothing to do with computers. They were developed back in the time when the government was not seen as the problem, but invested in enterprises that capitalists would never do, because it doesn't yield a quick return. Like the space program, without which we wouldn't be typing away at each other like this.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-29-2016, 10:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-29-2016, 10:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2016, 04:57 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Who the hell is Colin Kaepernick?  That's the poll quesiton.  For moi, it's who the fuck is Colin Kaepernick?

Then again, this is about fötbah.  I do not do fötbah whatsoever. The NFL etc. is a bunch of overpaid, overstuffed jocks who make way way too much money and their managers don't really belong to a city.  The managers should be tied to whatever stadium they're currently at.  Also, any city that builds a new stadium is the ultimate sucker in this.

What do you expect when the Robber Barons have the Democrats eating from their hands? You didn't actually believe that Obama was rugged enough to take on the rich.

Obama took them on as far as the Republicans and current ideology would allow him to.

Democrats eating from the hands of robber barons? I think you'd find if you looked that Republicans eat a lot more from their hands. But Democrats eat some too, it's true. The answer is to take money out of politics. Given that, the fact that all justices who voted for the Citizens United decision were Republican appointees, and all all who voted against it were Democratic appointees, and the fact that Democrats support reform and Republicans oppose it, should tell you all anyone needs to know about who's who in this regard.

He got politically slapped, retreated back to his room and remained there for six more years.

[pbrower2a]

The US flag is usually just a piece of cloth. I would not risk my life or serious injury to rescue a flag in peril of fire or of sinking with a ship. I consider a cat more precious. Indeed I would remove an irreplaceable work of art from peril of a fire before I removed a US flag.

If I had to use a flag to make a tourniquet or let someone die, or make a temporary sling for someone with a broken bone so that that person could avoid a more serious injury, then I would debase the flag for such a purpose. There are flags that I would burn in protest -- a Nazi flag, a Soviet flag, the flag of racist South Africa, the flag of the Infernal State, a Confederate flag -- but that is in contrast to the usual respect that I have for Old Glory. I can just imagine what forty-eight stars and thirteen stripes meant to the nearly-dead at Dachau and Mauthausen. Very new management, obviously.