The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(11-03-2021, 09:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 03:46 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 02:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you familiar with Critical Race Theory and what it teaches? I'll give you a hint, you'd have to be a racist to teach it and agree with it.

Mostly a phantom, much like the "death panels" involved in Obamacare. Remember those?.

Yep, I do remember them. I remember that they were brought up as an issue and challenged by Palin and other prominent conservatives at the time.  I also remember that they were removed from the Obamacare bill before it was passed into law as well. Don't worry, you'll be dealing with them (stuck with them) as an issue directly relating to you and your life eventually after  America votes to move forward as a nation and  part ways with the Progressive Democrats and leave them to their own demise.

Sarah Palin showed beyond any question that she was completely unfit to be Vice-President. She gave one speech well and made a fool of herself. She made an infamous speech separating the "Real America" from what much of America considers the modern-day equivalents of Sodom and Gomorrah, America's medium-to-giant cities. While in Chilicothe, Ohio she praised rural America and disparaged cities whose skyscrapers were out of view. News crews from Columbus, Ohio were there to capture the speech. Chilicothe is within the service area of the channels "4", "6" and "10". Let me explain what those numbers mean in Ohio:



Channel 4, 6, and `10 in Ohio are associated only with the Columbus market. Sarah Palin could have asked what TV market she was in... it's obviously Columbus. Just because she isn't in Columbus doesn't mean that her visit to Chilicothe isn't a news event. Her rambling, derisive speech got picked up by TV stations in Columbus, a fairly cosmopolitan city despite its location, and the horrid speech spread like wildfire.

After all, consider what is in Columbus, Lots of minorities, of course. Not Palin's sort of people, especially if they do not have English as their first language. (People not native speakers of English can often show an above-average mastery of standard English associated with well-educated people, but from my experience they do not catch on to American slang. This is so whether the language is fairly close in grammar and vocabulary to English, like French, or wildly distant like Chinese). Columbus has one of the largest universities in America, Ohio State. It has oodles of well-educated professionals who don't appreciate having their intelligence offended. So those aren't your sort of people? Tough!

America's giant cities have plenty of fine people, and in general they do not describe their communities as Sodom and Gomorrah. I can tell you about the vileness that is Michigan Avenue in southwestern Detroit, but once it enters Dearborn the sex-related businesses disappear in favor of kebab houses, and one quit seeing whores plying their trade and drunks and addicts stumbling about... and far fewer bars and liquor stores. Islamic influence, you know. Yes, you can get a drink in Dearborn, but you had better not get drunk or rowdy. Plenty of Christians and Jews also live in Dearborn, but they seem to like things quiet. Better the mosque than the whorehouse.

The truth about death panels was that loved ones and physicians would get to discuss when to pull the plug on someone unconscious in a terminal condition. Get your facts straight. Those death panels are being used on COVID-19 patients.

[Classic-Xer]

(11-04-2021, 04:22 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 09:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 03:46 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 02:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you familiar with Critical Race Theory and what it teaches? I'll give you a hint, you'd have to be a racist to teach it and agree with it.

Mostly a phantom, much like the "death panels" involved in Obamacare. Remember those?.

Yep, I do remember them. I remember that they were brought up as an issue and challenged by Palin and other prominent conservatives at the time.  I also remember that they were removed from the Obamacare bill before it was passed into law as well. Don't worry, you'll be dealing with them (stuck with them) as an issue directly relating to you and your life eventually after  America votes to move forward as a nation and  part ways with the Progressive Democrats and leave them to their own demise.

Sarah Palin showed beyond any question that she was completely unfit to be Vice-President. She gave one speech well and made a fool of herself. She made an infamous speech separating the "Real America" from what much of America considers the modern-day equivalents of Sodom and Gomorrah, America's medium-to-giant cities. While in Chilicothe, Ohio she praised rural America and disparaged cities whose skyscrapers were out of view. News crews from Columbus, Ohio were there to capture the speech. Chilicothe is within the service area of the channels "4", "6" and "10". Let me explain what those numbers mean in Ohio:



Channel 4, 6, and `10 in Ohio are associated only with the Columbus market. Sarah Palin could have asked what TV market she was in... it's obviously Columbus. Just because she isn't in Columbus doesn't mean that her visit to Chilicothe isn't a news event. Her rambling, derisive speech got picked up by TV stations in Columbus, a fairly cosmopolitan city despite its location, and the horrid speech spread like wildfire.

After all, consider what is in Columbus, Lots of minorities, of course. Not Palin's sort of people, especially if they do not have English as their first language. (People not native speakers of English can often show an above-average mastery of standard English associated with well-educated people, but from my experience they do not catch on to American slang. This is so whether the language is fairly close in grammar and vocabulary to English, like French, or wildly distant like Chinese). Columbus has one of the largest universities in America, Ohio State. It has oodles of well-educated professionals who don't appreciate having their intelligence offended. So those aren't your sort of people? Tough!

America's giant cities have plenty of fine people, and in general they do not describe their communities as Sodom and Gomorrah. I can tell you about the vileness that is Michigan Avenue in southwestern Detroit, but once it enters Dearborn the sex-related businesses disappear in favor of kebab houses, and one quit seeing whores plying their trade and drunks and addicts stumbling about... and far fewer bars and liquor stores. Islamic influence, you know. Yes, you can get a drink in Dearborn, but you had better not get drunk or rowdy. Plenty of Christians and Jews also live in Dearborn, but they seem to like things quiet. Better the mosque than the whorehouse.

The truth about death panels was that loved ones and physicians would get to discuss when to pull the plug on someone unconscious in a terminal condition. Get your facts straight. Those death panels are being used on COVID-19 patients.

We had the right to consult with physicians and family members and determine whether or not to pull the plug on a loved one who was terminally ill or brain dead before Obamacare passed into law. I think you better get your facts straight because the country is beginning to figure you guys out and starting to turn on you and the Democrats right now.

[Eric the Green]

If the people turn against us, it will be because of dumb slogans like CRT and not any facts.

What you call today's Left in the USA is not even as far left as the Left was in the USA before your charming actor hoodwinked you guys.

[pbrower2a]

(11-05-2021, 12:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-04-2021, 04:22 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 09:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 03:46 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 02:42 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you familiar with Critical Race Theory and what it teaches? I'll give you a hint, you'd have to be a racist to teach it and agree with it.

Mostly a phantom, much like the "death panels" involved in Obamacare. Remember those?.

Yep, I do remember them. I remember that they were brought up as an issue and challenged by Palin and other prominent conservatives at the time.  I also remember that they were removed from the Obamacare bill before it was passed into law as well. Don't worry, you'll be dealing with them (stuck with them) as an issue directly relating to you and your life eventually after  America votes to move forward as a nation and  part ways with the Progressive Democrats and leave them to their own demise.

Sarah Palin showed beyond any question that she was completely unfit to be Vice-President. She gave one speech well and made a fool of herself. She made an infamous speech separating the "Real America" from what much of America considers the modern-day equivalents of Sodom and Gomorrah, America's medium-to-giant cities. While in Chilicothe, Ohio she praised rural America and disparaged cities whose skyscrapers were out of view. News crews from Columbus, Ohio were there to capture the speech. Chilicothe is within the service area of the channels "4", "6" and "10". Let me explain what those numbers mean in Ohio:
.........
Channel 4, 6, and `10 in Ohio are associated only with the Columbus market. Sarah Palin could have asked what TV market she was in... it's obviously Columbus. Just because she isn't in Columbus doesn't mean that her visit to Chilicothe isn't a news event. Her rambling, derisive speech got picked up by TV stations in Columbus, a fairly cosmopolitan city despite its location, and the horrid speech spread like wildfire.

After all, consider what is in Columbus, Lots of minorities, of course. Not Palin's sort of people, especially if they do not have English as their first language. (People not native speakers of English can often show an above-average mastery of standard English associated with well-educated people, but from my experience they do not catch on to American slang. This is so whether the language is fairly close in grammar and vocabulary to English, like French, or wildly distant like Chinese). Columbus has one of the largest universities in America, Ohio State. It has oodles of well-educated professionals who don't appreciate having their intelligence offended. So those aren't your sort of people? Tough!

America's giant cities have plenty of fine people, and in general they do not describe their communities as Sodom and Gomorrah. I can tell you about the vileness that is Michigan Avenue in southwestern Detroit, but once it enters Dearborn the sex-related businesses disappear in favor of kebab houses, and one quit seeing whores plying their trade and drunks and addicts stumbling about... and far fewer bars and liquor stores. Islamic influence, you know. Yes, you can get a drink in Dearborn, but you had better not get drunk or rowdy. Plenty of Christians and Jews also live in Dearborn, but they seem to like things quiet. Better the mosque than the whorehouse.

The truth about death panels was that loved ones and physicians would get to discuss when to pull the plug on someone unconscious in a terminal condition. Get your facts straight. Those death panels are being used on COVID-19 patients.

We had the right to consult with physicians and family members and determine whether or not to pull the plug on a loved one who was terminally ill or brain dead before Obamacare passed into law. I think you better get your facts straight because the country is beginning to figure you guys out and starting to turn on you and the Democrats right now.

What Sarah Palin did was to create a snarl phrase to describe something that already existed. It's like calling the inheritance tax the "death tax" because "death" suggests that someone gets killed through some policy or practice.

You do not fully understand the potential abuse of language to deny reality or disparage something routine or benign. You do not recognize how despicable some people can get by turning words into lies. The Right does much of this to befuddle and scare people. Sarah Palin got caught by the media trying to manipulate it for propaganda. The media rightly turned on her.

[David Horn]

(11-05-2021, 12:58 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: If the people turn against us, it will be because of dumb slogans like CRT and not any facts.

What you call today's Left in the USA is not even as far left as the Left was in the USA before your charming actor hoodwinked you guys.

Unfortuantely, success comes from winning, and the GOP is dead-set against losing.  It hasn't even started to get ugly yet.

[pbrower2a]

The judicial process is moving against those who had even slight roles in the Capitol Putsch. People are convicted of entering a restricted area and remaining in it but have done nothing else wrong are getting light sentences. The warning from the legal system is clear: just don't do this sort of thing. An illustration of how the courts are not falling into the harsh "lock 'em up and lose the key" approach is to be shown in this video. The TV station is CBS-13, WOWK-TV in Huntington, West Virginia, very much Trump Country:





Note: "Hurricane woman" refers to her being from Hurricane, West Virginia, There really is such a place. 

Some people were confused and simply followed the crowd. My suspicion is that most of the technical offenders will get light sentences, which is fair, but necessary. I have been in the Capitol Building, and I have had much reverence for what goes on there, or at least I did when the conservatives were more like Everett Dirksen than like my current representative Tim Walberg (who sought to overturn the popular vote in Michigan). That dates me. I visited the Capitol once with my parents and twice with a high-school band on the way to a band contest.

[Bob Butler 54]

Another twist has come up.  In December of 2020, the Republicans in five states (at least) forged false documents that claimed Trump electors,  These elector lists were sent to Congress, the national archives and elsewhere.  Rachel Maddows among others are bringing these documents to light.  The fairly senior Republicans signers, apparently serious enough in the party to be selected as electors, could wind up in legal difficulties.  The states involved include Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia and Arizona.  The forged documents have identical wording and formatting, indicating somebody coordinated the efforts.  

A sixth state, Pennsylvania, sent in a variant slate of electors, but labeled them as alternates to be taken seriously only if some court overthrew the vote.  None did.

In Arizona, it seems another independent set of Republicans came up with the same idea.  Arizona actually had three sets of electors according to separate documents.

Preliminary evidence indicates Clark in the US Justice Department at least knew about these letters, but they haven't got a smoking gun as to who instigated them yet.  As in all five states some scheduled preliminary Republican electors wanted no part of this effort, and replacements had to be found, there will be lots of people to talk to to trace back responsibility.

Another example of well documented election tampering...

[pbrower2a]

"My" Representative, Tim Walberg (Reactionary, MI-07), endorsed negation the result of the popular vote in Michigan so that the State legislature (gerrymandered into an R majority) could "give" Michigan a Republican slate of electors. This is screwy politics unless one accepts all the claims of vote fraud because people voted "wrong" in Greater Detroit.

[Eric the Green]

(01-12-2022, 11:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: "My" Representative, Tim Walberg (Reactionary, MI-07), endorsed negation (of) the result of the popular vote in Michigan so that the State legislature (gerrymandered into an R majority) could "give" Michigan a Republican slate of electors. This is screwy politics unless one accepts all the claims of vote fraud because people voted "wrong" in Greater Detroit.

Yes, because those people are the wrong people and shouldn't vote, which is what Walberg, Trump and company are really saying but don't usually admit.

How many states have passed laws to enable this negation, is my question.

[nguyenivy]

Any opinions here on the Green Party or any other 3rd party in the US? Are they outside the scope of this thread?

[pbrower2a]

Some John Cleese for Classic X'er. Humor (or in John Cleese's case, humour) is the best sort of analysis.





No further comment is necessary.

[David Horn]

(01-12-2022, 04:19 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: Any opinions here on the Green Party or any other 3rd party in the US? Are they outside the scope of this thread?

Because we use first-past-the-post in our electins, third parties tend to steal votes from other candidates that may be second best choices.  It's why we had George W Bush instead of Al Gore and Donald Trump instead of Hillary.  Then again, Lisa Murkowski managed to knock-off a truly repugnant Republican in Alaska, but only due to the fact that Democrats never win there.

[Eric the Green]

Classic Xer described:

[Eric the Green]

(01-12-2022, 04:19 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: Any opinions here on the Green Party or any other 3rd party in the US? Are they outside the scope of this thread?

I was a Green Party member from 1991 to 2020, and a local official in the party for several years. Hence, one reason for my moniker. Most Greens are on the Left, and support the same issues as progressive Democrats. Greens hope to push the Democrats to stay in the progressive lane, or lose votes to them. Greens also tend to see the two parties as more like each other than like them, which is not true, and they can potentially spoil elections as they were accused of doing in Bush v. Gore in 2000. They rightly describe the Democrats and Republicans as a duopoly, which limits who can participate in making decisions and attracts big money support and consequent corruption in the 2 major parties. Greens these days are tending to describe themselves as socialists, which departs from the original conception of Greens as a new party based on new principles influenced by 1960s and 70s movements (the 10 key values and 4 pillars) instead of based on old 19th-century ones.

Instead of a duopoly the Greens propose instead a more-parliamentary system like most other democracies and quasi-democracies have, more on the British model than the American. Greens propose ranked choice voting so people can pick their second and third choices, so that the spoiler effect is reduced and more people will be emboldened to vote for whom they really want, and they support proportional representation to give smaller parties a voice in congress/legislatures. We see in Germany that the well-established Green Party there is able to enter a governing coalition and influence policy, whereas in the USA only one party can govern, and others are squeezed out or reduced to a big divide between two parties that prevents anything from getting done.

[pbrower2a]

(01-12-2022, 04:19 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: Any opinions here on the Green Party or any other 3rd party in the US? Are they outside the scope of this thread?

Never let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good. The Rotten win when we insist upon perfection when political vileness is better organized and lavishly funded. We have powerful elites who want an aristocratic order in all but name, one in which elites of ownership and management get complete dominion over politics and economics, condemning anyone not like them to grinding poverty and subjection. Those elites have at their core the belief that the rest of Humanity owes everything to them and that those elites owe nothing but bare sustenance as is necessary for keeping people alive to toil for them. If given the chance, they would arrange everything for themselves, and we would all achieve the sort of equality with what American blacks used to endure in "Kukluxistan" and South African blacks endured under Apartheid while the economic elites wallow in unconstrained power and indulgence. 

Just look at the political figures on the Right. Most endorse the most despotic President in American history and fault him, if at all, for not being despotic enough -- or failing to crush liberalism before beginning the internal purge of the GOP. 

On the other hand I would love to see the Right splinter between the fascists and the libertarians. 

As a People we must put liberty above ethnic and religious identity... and even economic gain and security. The Hard Right has won some elections on promises of economic miracles that never pan out for any but the elites. The rest of us get to work longer and harder for less and pay more due to the monopolization and other corruption in necessities from housing to food to fuel to medicine. Those already rich wax even fatter while strangling freedom of those not them. 

The Capitol Putsch gives us cause to recognize how precarious liberty and democracy are. Forged papers "offering" slates of electors contrary to the popular vote of those states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) have been exposed in recent days. A second term of Trump would have initiated a dictatorship in which those who won the last election choose the results of every subsequent election. That's how things were done behind the Iron Curtain, if for a different agenda. One Big Happy Plantation may be the economic antithesis of Marxist-Leninist economics, but the techniques are much the same.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-13-2022, 06:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Never let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good. The Rotten win when we insist upon perfection when political vileness is better organized and lavishly funded. We have powerful elites who want an aristocratic order in all but name, one in which elites of ownership and management get complete dominion over politics and economics, condemning anyone not like them to grinding poverty and subjection. Those elites have at their core the belief that the rest of Humanity owes everything to them and that those elites owe nothing but bare sustenance as is necessary for keeping people alive to toil for them. If given the chance, they would arrange everything for themselves, and we would all achieve the sort of equality with what American blacks used to endure in "Kukluxistan" and South African blacks endured under Apartheid while the economic elites wallow in unconstrained power and indulgence. 

Just look at the political figures on the Right. Most endorse the most despotic President in American history and fault him, if at all, for not being despotic enough -- or failing to crush liberalism before beginning the internal purge of the GOP. 

On the other hand I would love to see the Right splinter between the fascists and the libertarians. 

As a People we must put liberty above ethnic and religious identity... and even economic gain and security. The Hard Right has won some elections on promises of economic miracles that never pan out for any but the elites. The rest of us get to work longer and harder for less and pay more due to the monopolization and other corruption in necessities from housing to food to fuel to medicine. Those already rich wax even fatter while strangling freedom of those not them. 

The Capitol Putsch gives us cause to recognize how precarious liberty and democracy are. Forged papers "offering" slates of electors contrary to the popular vote of those states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) have been exposed in recent days. A second term of Trump would have initiated a dictatorship in which those who won the last election choose the results of every subsequent election. That's how things were done behind the Iron Curtain, if for a different agenda. One Big Happy Plantation may be the economic antithesis of Marxist-Leninist economics, but the techniques are much the same.

Are you Perfect PB? Is Bob Perfect PB? Are Eric and Dave Perfect PB? Dude, the only Perfect human being was beaten to a bloody pulp and paraded through the streets and then crucified and left hanging there to die a slow and miserable death a couple thousand years ago. Other than year that we live in, are you at all related  to him PB Are there any blues posting here who are related to him these days? I see a lot of blues using him and using his beliefs to attract people and use them to gain power as they're attacking his believers and removing symbols related to him and his father so to speak. Who am I PB? Am I the Devil or equal to the Devil? As you can see, I'm anything but Perfect? I mean, what won't I do PB? What aren't I free to do? Is there anything a Rotten won't do PB? Are you in with the Rotten that we see or the Perfect who are Rotten that we see? You ain't Perfect. You've proven beyond all doubt many times. You ain't Rotten to the core like most of your politicians and billionaires and donor class/aristocracy these days. I mean, you got to be Rotten to do business with the Devil and they're all Rotten PB. So, which blue shit hole do you and the others prefer to be dropped off and left to die in PB? Right now, you have choices that you won't have for much longer. Like I've said, you better pull your head out/wise up and start showing me/us  something other than the shit you've been showing me/us for over a decade now.

[pbrower2a]

(01-13-2022, 07:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-13-2022, 06:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Never let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good. The Rotten win when we insist upon perfection when political vileness is better organized and lavishly funded. We have powerful elites who want an aristocratic order in all but name, one in which elites of ownership and management get complete dominion over politics and economics, condemning anyone not like them to grinding poverty and subjection. Those elites have at their core the belief that the rest of Humanity owes everything to them and that those elites owe nothing but bare sustenance as is necessary for keeping people alive to toil for them. If given the chance, they would arrange everything for themselves, and we would all achieve the sort of equality with what American blacks used to endure in "Kukluxistan" and South African blacks endured under Apartheid while the economic elites wallow in unconstrained power and indulgence. 

Just look at the political figures on the Right. Most endorse the most despotic President in American history and fault him, if at all, for not being despotic enough -- or failing to crush liberalism before beginning the internal purge of the GOP. 

On the other hand I would love to see the Right splinter between the fascists and the libertarians. 

As a People we must put liberty above ethnic and religious identity... and even economic gain and security. The Hard Right has won some elections on promises of economic miracles that never pan out for any but the elites. The rest of us get to work longer and harder for less and pay more due to the monopolization and other corruption in necessities from housing to food to fuel to medicine. Those already rich wax even fatter while strangling freedom of those not them. 

The Capitol Putsch gives us cause to recognize how precarious liberty and democracy are. Forged papers "offering" slates of electors contrary to the popular vote of those states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) have been exposed in recent days. A second term of Trump would have initiated a dictatorship in which those who won the last election choose the results of every subsequent election. That's how things were done behind the Iron Curtain, if for a different agenda. One Big Happy Plantation may be the economic antithesis of Marxist-Leninist economics, but the techniques are much the same.

Are you Perfect PB? Is Bob Perfect PB? Are Eric and Dave Perfect PB?

Do we say that we are perfect?

Quote:Dude, the only Perfect human being was beaten to a bloody pulp and paraded through the streets and then crucified and left hanging there to die a slow and miserable death a couple thousand years ago. Other than year that we live in, are you at all related  to him PB

We are all related. We don't know how. I do genealogy, and I have more question marks than exclamation points.

Quote:Are there any blues posting here who are related to him these days? I see a lot of blues using him and using his beliefs to attract people and use them to gain power as they're attacking his believers and removing symbols related to him and his father so to speak. Who am I PB?

I know of no Jewish ancestry in myself, so I cannot assume a clear genealogical connection to Him. This said, if you use Christian teachings for an evil end (such a tyranny or economic exploitation) then you blaspheme. As for religious symbols I have no problem with private-sector expressions of personal faith. A statue of the Virgin Mary in one's front yard in no way offends me. The use of public funds to promote a religious position is wrong. I believe in separation of Church and State because such separation prevents much corruption of both.

Quote:Am I the Devil or equal to the Devil?

Uh, Hitler offed himself in 1945. 

Quote:As you can see, I'm anything but Perfect?

We all fall short of God's desires, says any Christian clergyman of whom I know. I have big problems with some tendencies within Christianity, including the treatment of all flawed behavior a "sin". I'm not going to confuse overeating with perpetration of the Holocaust.
. 

Quote:I mean, what won't I do PB? What aren't I free to do? Is there anything a Rotten won't do PB? Are you in with the Rotten that we see or the Perfect who are Rotten that we see? You ain't Perfect. You've proven beyond all doubt many times. You ain't Rotten to the core like most of your politicians and billionaires and donor class/aristocracy these days. I mean, you got to be Rotten to do business with the Devil and they're all Rotten PB. So, which blue shit hole do you and the others prefer to be dropped off and left to die in PB? Right now, you have choices that you won't have for much longer. Like I've said, you better pull your head out/wise up and start showing me/us  something other than the shit you've been showing me/us for over a decade now.

You seem to be a fervent supporter of Donald Trump, a man of pervasive depravity. I need say no more. I have no respect for any admirer of gangsters, serial and mass murderers, shysters or scammers, or terrorists. Anyone who admires such people has a huge moral gap in need of rectification.

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-13-2022, 07:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you Perfect PB? Is Bob Perfect PB? Are Eric and Dave Perfect PB?

At least we don't claim to speak for some imaginary group which supposedly shares our political opinions. I don't pretend to be of any 'perfect' definition, but at least I got there by observing what was real.

[David Horn]

(01-13-2022, 11:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-13-2022, 07:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you Perfect PB? Is Bob Perfect PB? Are Eric and Dave Perfect PB?

At least we don't claim to speak for some imaginary group which supposedly shares our political opinions.  I don't pretend to be of any 'perfect' definition, but at least I got there by observing what was real.

I agree.  We're all flawed, but striving to be our better selves.

[Eric the Green]

I am always amazed that right wing zealots like Classic Xer denounce "billionaires and donor class/aristocracy" when it is their Party which does everything possible to boost their interests and hurt the rest of us. It amazes me that Classic Xer can turn his own faults around and shove them back at us. But that is always what liars and tyrants do.