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I have posted Biden speeches before here, but I can't find them easily now. So I will post here the evidence that Biden, though sometimes it doesn't seem so, is capable of speaking dramatically and forcefully to the crisis issues of our fourth turning. He is truly the gray, gray champion, and we have no alternative but to support him, with all his shortcomings, even though he is also Slow Joe, all the way through our fourth turning to its last year, 2029. Here is Biden's speech on the MAGA Republican threat to democracy.
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The gray, gray champion speaks about the Jan.6th capitol attack on its first anniversary.
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09-02-2022, 02:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 02:12 PM by Eric the Green.)
President Biden outlined his “Safer America Plan,” which aims to address gun crime, in a speech in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, on Tuesday Aug.30, 2022. He also said he is "determined to ban assault weapons," speaking emotionally about the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, in May.
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Watch Biden’s full speech on voting rights, posted Jan 11, 2022
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09-03-2022, 04:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 04:45 AM by pbrower2a.)
From WPVI-TV (ABC-6, Philadelphia) -- the President's speech in front of Independence Hall
Ripping Donald Trump and the MAGA cult. It was only a matter of time.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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09-03-2022, 05:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 06:33 AM by Eric the Green.)
Joe Biden is not JFK, or even Barack Obama, or Bill Clinton. But dramatic, articulate? I rest my case. He is as skilled a candidate as Donald Trump, and beats him as much more trustworthy. Has his speech ability declined with age? I doubt it is any different than before, except he can mobilize his abilities better than before.
Biden is also more skilled and more capable of winning the US presidential election than anyone else that seems to be available in the Democratic Party for 2024. He can also win against other Republicans currently being considered.
There are a very-few dark horses. On the Democratic side, Mitch Landrieu is a more-skilled candidate, and on the Republican side, Spencer Cox, who may be too moderate for the current right-wing Party. Same applies to Will Hurd. So far I see no indication that they are running, and it is debatable whether they have enough fame and standing. Gavin Newsom may not be ready to run either, nor Tim Scott.
I hope we can beat all the trolls who commented on this speech above.
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You're preaching to the choir. The real audiences are the persuadables, of which there are many. The problem: they are all over the map. Start with the youth, who just aren't interested in Grandpa, though his loan forgiveness may have made a dent there. Then there are the suburbanites who are more worried about crabgrass than national politics. Getting them will be a challenge, because too many choose social media as their proferred news source, and the Trumnpists have no compunctions about filling those platforms with half truths, outright lies and worse: appeals to blood and soil couched in mommy-talk.
If Biden is reelected, he'll default to caretaker status relatively early in his second term -- better than having an arsonist in charge but too little to create real change. Once again, the monied will escape and this will settle finally into 1980ish neoliberal lite in the 1T. It could be worse. It should be better.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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09-03-2022, 07:31 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 07:54 AM by JasonBlack.)
"Is President Biden too old and dated"
Yes, and tbh, he was a weak puppet long before becoming so. Even Neil Howe openly referred to him as a "lame duck president".
"with all his shortcomings, even though he is also Slow Joe"
If it were me calling him stupid, you would be justified in viewing that as a partisan cliche, but since these are your words...yeah, not being retarded is kind of a necessary starting point to being a Grey Champion.
In the mean time, I will concede that a lot of conservatives misrepresented this speech (ex: "he called half of Americans enemies of democracy!" when he clearly said "the majority of Republicans are not MAGA Republicans"). Yes, the Darth Sideous-esque lighting had me bursting with laughter at the start, but the speech itself was relatively undramatic. Granted, his actions are creepy, privacy-invading and blatantly globalist, but the speech itself wasn't particularly alarming, certainly not warranting the "he sounds just like HITLER!" screeching I've grown so tired of hearing every 5 seconds about whoever is in power at the time. Still, he seemed more like 70-80% there tonight rather than his usual 40%, and, for once, seemed to have some semblance of a personality, so that was a nice improvement.
What I liked the most though was that he unapologetically said that we are the greatest nation in the world. For once, he had the balls to say something genuinely controversial, even if the majority of people knew it was true just a few decades ago. Credit where credit is due, this gets a small nod of respect.
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09-03-2022, 01:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 01:46 PM by Eric the Green.)
(09-03-2022, 07:31 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: "Is President Biden too old and dated"
Yes, and tbh, he was a weak puppet long before becoming so. Even Neil Howe openly referred to him as a "lame duck president".
"with all his shortcomings, even though he is also Slow Joe"
If it were me calling him stupid, you would be justified in viewing that as a partisan cliche, but since these are your words...yeah, not being retarded is kind of a necessary starting point to being a Grey Champion.
Well, Neil Howe is wrong on that one, even though he's right a lot of the time.
Yes "Slow Joe" were my words, but "retarded" is YOUR word, and those are not the same thing. About to turn 80 years old, Joe moves physically a bit slow like an old man, which he is. And he was slow to pick up on some things and take charge, like protecting our troops during the Afghan withdrawal, or not mobilizing the national guard to help with the supply chain crisis, as I asked him to do, or getting baby formula out more quickly. But it's debatable whether anyone else would have done better with the info and powers available. These speeches show not only that he can speak dramatically and not stumble or mumble any more than other speakers do, but he is sharp, articulate and well-informed on the issues. He's a bright guy, not "slow" in the sense of retarded. But that's how his detractors mean the word, I guess. Including the conceited guy who lost the election in 2020 and refuses to concede, and who also lost to Biden on the national debate stage too.
Quote:In the mean time, I will concede that a lot of conservatives misrepresented this speech (ex: "he called half of Americans enemies of democracy!" when he clearly said "the majority of Republicans are not MAGA Republicans"). Yes, the Darth Sideous-esque lighting had me bursting with laughter at the start, but the speech itself was relatively undramatic. Granted, his actions are creepy, privacy-invading and blatantly globalist, but the speech itself wasn't particularly alarming, certainly not warranting the "he sounds just like HITLER!" screeching I've grown so tired of hearing every 5 seconds about whoever is in power at the time. Still, he seemed more like 70-80% there tonight rather than his usual 40%, and, for once, seemed to have some semblance of a personality, so that was a nice improvement.
What I liked the most though was that he unapologetically said that we are the greatest nation in the world. For once, he had the balls to say something genuinely controversial, even if the majority of people knew it was true just a few decades ago. Credit where credit is due, this gets a small nod of respect.
I was going to mention about the absurd reactions to the speech by Republicans, so thanks for that. His speech was certainly "dramatic"; I don't know how any speech could be any more dramatic. But yes, when people focus on his off-the-cuff press conferences when he seems like he's not all there, they miss the fact that in these speeches he shows he is all there when he decides to be. And saying this about the USA is not a new thing at all for him; he has always been saying that in his speeches. So add together your small nod, with others you need to give him to add up to a large nod for his continual reference to the USA as the greatest nation, and especially to his continual statements that there's nothing we can't do if we act together.
This does give him a greater appeal to rank and file Democrats and some independents, as opposed to some leaders further left who focus on the problems that we have because of who really runs the country-- the oligarchy. Confidence and optimism always works well for candidates for USA president.
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(09-03-2022, 07:31 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: "Is President Biden too old and dated"
Yes, and tbh, he was a weak puppet long before becoming so. Even Neil Howe openly referred to him as a "lame duck president".
He has the same strengths, which are mental. He is coherent in speech as he approaches eighty. He recognizes the validity of expressions of personal hardship and cares about people in trouble who have done nothing to get themselves there. His core values have not changed.
His biggest political weakness is one that generational theory could predict: that he has practically no generational constituency of like-minded people in the same age group. The Silent generation is mostly extinct. To be sure, Silent men have generally melded some masculine characteristics of GI's and Boomers. Boomers have at their best vision, principle, and erudition, which Biden has. Biden exemplifies GI rationality and communitarianism. Judgmentalism is no better than its objective, and the MAGA crowd has shown its inappropriateness. Somebody needs to call the MAGA cult and its leader out, and Biden has been cautious in finding the moment.
Remember the greatest contribution that I have associated to the Silent in American culture: comedy. To be effective as a comedian one needs timing at the moment, and when that goes one can no longer be effective as a comedian on stage or screen. Biden is no comedian, but he does have the political timing down. The ex-President was caught with in of the worst scenarios for a criminal defense -- top-secret documents. Having them out of place is itself criminal culpability, and the only imaginable defense for such is that they were planted. The surprise to most of us is that anyone could still excuse Trump for this. One might not presume criminal guilt about a suspicious fire or even a dead body, but classified documents out of place is prima facie violation of the law.
Biden has been careful to wait until law enforcement has a nearly open-and-shut case with nothing but the juridical question of when the case will be heard in a court of law or when there will be a plea bargain. Criminal consequences for Trump's misdeeds with classified documents are severe.
Quote:"with all his shortcomings, even though he is also Slow Joe"
If it were me calling him stupid, you would be justified in viewing that as a partisan cliche, but since these are your words...yeah, not being retarded is kind of a necessary starting point to being a Grey Champion.
Slow... or cautious? For a considerable time one had nothing but the hope that the MAGA cult would erode due to the decline of its increasingly-elderly constituency in numbers and the aging and bad habits (elderly bad habits do not mellow with time, but they can and often kill those with the habits -- smoking, alcoholic liver disease, obesity, lack of exercise, poor diet, and failure to handle diabetes well) or that its intellectual and moral failures would make it an object of ridicule as is the norm with any fad that has outlasted its original appeal. To be sure, fads such as Strauss waltzes and Art Deco do not fade in attractiveness, but that recognizes them as mainstream and timelessness. MAGA appeals strictly to one cult, and that cult is old. It has practically no youth appeal due to its anti-rationalism and absurdity. So it was with fascism, another political fad.
Quote:In the mean time, I will concede that a lot of conservatives misrepresented this speech (ex: "he called half of Americans enemies of democracy!" when he clearly said "the majority of Republicans are not MAGA Republicans"). Yes, the Darth Sideous-esque lighting had me bursting with laughter at the start, but the speech itself was relatively undramatic. Granted, his actions are creepy, privacy-invading and blatantly globalist, but the speech itself wasn't particularly alarming, certainly not warranting the "he sounds just like HITLER!" screeching I've grown so tired of hearing every 5 seconds about whoever is in power at the time. Still, he seemed more like 70-80% there tonight rather than his usual 40%, and, for once, seemed to have some semblance of a personality, so that was a nice improvement.
The red lighting is the apparent norm for Independence Hall at night for accentuating the red brick façade. Biden knows Philadelphia well, and he chose to use it as a backdrop. He knew what sort of crowd would appear in Philly at night -- one intolerant of the MAGA cult. That cult had tried to nullify the vote from Philadelphia.
The MAGA cult is accustomed to hearing deprecatory attacks on anyone either opposed to or outside it, and to see those not fully inside the cult and loyal to its political agenda grossly disloyal. On the other hand, Biden made clear that the speech was not about his own glorification. He left room for people to abandon the cult and return to the sort of normality that we used to consider essential to politics in which nobody gets everything that he wants, all results are workable compromises, and everyone ends up with something precious. What is essential gets achieved (let us say, some gun legislation that restricts gun ownership to people with valid uses such as sport hunting).
It is not enough for Donald Trump to leave the political scene. Cults such as L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology and Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church have clearly outlasted their founders without going mainstream. This said, I have never known of anyone killing or being killed on behalf of Scientology (people go broke and never solve their problems) or the Unification Church. MAGA has shown some proclivity for violence and for the abuse of patriotic symbolism in that violence (I'm guessing that the schmuck who used a Marine Corps flag as a weapon against law enforcement got a longer term for the use of a Marine Corps flag for that vile purpose. It is reasonable to assume that the Marine Corps deprecated that abuse of non-partisan, apolitical symbolism).
People with a blanket disdain for law enforcement are themselves suspect. We have law and order, lest the rule of law and the civil liberties thus possible, be void. Black Lives Matters has a limited (and legitimate!) set of complaints about law enforcement in violent discrimination against blacks -- but it seems not to complain when someone gets busted for hijacking its protests with behavior such as looting, assault, or property damage. Black Lives Matters is close to the mainstream because nobody can justify police brutality against someone who has done nothing to provoke brutality (technically, if the cops pull a gun on someone who pull a gun on a police officer and kill the person who would kill the cop, such is brutal. That is self-defense, and for self-defense to be effective it must often be as brutal as criminal violence).
Quote:What I liked the most though was that he unapologetically said that we are the greatest nation in the world. For once, he had the balls to say something genuinely controversial, even if the majority of people knew it was true just a few decades ago. Credit where credit is due, this gets a small nod of respect.
Biden picked his location well. Independence Hall was where our unlikely nation formally declared independence, and where it hammered out a workable Constitution. It may not be so much a place of government activity as a symbol, but it is excellent. It has a military honor guard at night. The location that Biden chose is perfect.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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09-03-2022, 01:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2022, 02:09 PM by Eric the Green.)
(09-03-2022, 06:56 AM)David Horn Wrote: You're preaching to the choir. The real audiences are the persuadables, of which there are many. The problem: they are all over the map. Start with the youth, who just aren't interested in Grandpa, though his loan forgiveness may have made a dent there. Then there are the suburbanites who are more worried about crabgrass than national politics. Getting them will be a challenge, because too many choose social media as their proferred news source, and the Trumpists have no compunctions about filling those platforms with half truths, outright lies and worse: appeals to blood and soil couched in mommy-talk.
If Biden is reelected, he'll default to caretaker status relatively early in his second term -- better than having an arsonist in charge but too little to create real change. Once again, the monied will escape and this will settle finally into 1980ish neoliberal lite in the 1T. It could be worse. It should be better.
Biden will still be in charge and pushing for the changes that we'll need. There being no-one else, he will be more than a caretaker. He certainly doesn't have a veep who can take over. Is there a potential House speaker who can fill that role? I don't see that person. A big challenge will be to put down the violent uprisings by the militias of the right wing in the mid-2020s after he wins re-election. I think he is ready and willing to meet the challenge, as he says he is.
We should do better than we will in this 4T. I guess that's true in most 4Ts. The status quo or a reactionary trend can make a comeback in 1Ts, but they also carry forward the momentum of the changes made during 4Ts, to varying degrees. The question is will we do what we need to do to steer the ship of state on a better course, whether everything gets done that should be done or not. Passing the climate action was a good first step, and as he said we are only just beginning. It will take a Democratic congress to do more. Biden is not to blame if we haven't gotten done all we should; the Democrats in the House did what was needed. The voters did not give Biden a real majority in the Senate, so that limited the results. Again it needs to be continually said. No president can do much without a congress, unless you want a dictator.
But I enjoyed your crabgrass reference. Americans of all ages and classes have many ways to go to sleep and ignore what's happening. It's always a challenge.
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(09-03-2022, 01:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (09-03-2022, 06:56 AM)David Horn Wrote: You're preaching to the choir. The real audiences are the persuadables, of which there are many. The problem: they are all over the map. Start with the youth, who just aren't interested in Grandpa, though his loan forgiveness may have made a dent there. Then there are the suburbanites who are more worried about crabgrass than national politics. Getting them will be a challenge, because too many choose social media as their proferred news source, and the Trumpists have no compunctions about filling those platforms with half truths, outright lies and worse: appeals to blood and soil couched in mommy-talk.
If Biden is reelected, he'll default to caretaker status relatively early in his second term -- better than having an arsonist in charge but too little to create real change. Once again, the monied will escape and this will settle finally into 1980ish neoliberal lite in the 1T. It could be worse. It should be better.
Biden will still be in charge and pushing for the changes that we'll need. There being no-one else, he will be more than a caretaker. He certainly doesn't have a veep who can take over. Is there a potential House speaker who can fill that role? I don't see that person. A big challenge will be to put down the violent uprisings by the militias of the right wing in the mid-2020s after he wins re-election. I think he is ready and willing to meet the challenge, as he says he is.
Ideally the Trump cult disintegrates, and anyone doing violence on behalf of that cult will likely be relegated to the role of a lone-wolf terrorist. Law enforcement and the legal process deal well -- and mercilessly -- with such types.
Quote:We should do better than we will in this 4T. I guess that's true in most 4Ts. The status quo or a reactionary trend can make a comeback in 1Ts, but they also carry forward the momentum of the changes made during 4Ts, to varying degrees. The question is will we do what we need to do to steer the ship of state on a better course, whether everything gets done that should be done or not. Passing the climate action was a good first step, and as he said we are only just beginning. It will take a Democratic congress to do more. Biden is not to blame if we haven't gotten done all we should; the Democrats in the House did what was needed. The voters did not give Biden a real majority in the Senate, so that limited the results. Again it needs to be continually said. No president can do much without a congress, unless you want a dictator.
After the Crisis a new normal sets in, one consistent with the agenda of the winning faction of the 1T. Trump's faction came close to achieving its agenda, but failed catastrophically. In place of conspiracy theories we will have an orthodoxy that will get increasingly stale.
Dictators have weak legislatures full of appointed flunkies who do exactly what the Great and Infallible Leader tells them to do.
Quote:But I enjoyed your crabgrass reference. Americans of all ages and classes have many ways to go to sleep and ignore what's happening. It's always a challenge.
It was difficult to sleep through all the Katzenjammer from the MAGA cult.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(09-03-2022, 01:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (09-03-2022, 06:56 AM)David Horn Wrote: If Biden is reelected, he'll default to caretaker status relatively early in his second term -- better than having an arsonist in charge but too little to create real change. Once again, the monied will escape and this will settle finally into 1980ish neoliberal lite in the 1T. It could be worse. It should be better.
Biden will still be in charge and pushing for the changes that we'll need. There being no-one else, he will be more than a caretaker. He certainly doesn't have a veep who can take over. Is there a potential House speaker who can fill that role? I don't see that person. A big challenge will be to put down the violent uprisings by the militias of the right wing in the mid-2020s after he wins re-election. I think he is ready and willing to meet the challenge, as he says he is.
This is a direct result of the Silent/Boomer leadership of both parties hanging on and not letting go. Younger pols have just waved and sreamed, but they can't get traction. The voting youth have decided it's futile, and just walked away. Running Biden again will just seal the deal. 2028 will be a bloodbath.
Eric Wrote:We should do better than we will in this 4T. I guess that's true in most 4Ts. The status quo or a reactionary trend can make a comeback in 1Ts, but they also carry forward the momentum of the changes made during 4Ts, to varying degrees. The question is will we do what we need to do to steer the ship of state on a better course, whether everything gets done that should be done or not. Passing the climate action was a good first step, and as he said we are only just beginning. It will take a Democratic congress to do more. Biden is not to blame if we haven't gotten done all we should; the Democrats in the House did what was needed. The voters did not give Biden a real majority in the Senate, so that limited the results. Again it needs to be continually said. No president can do much without a congress, unless you want a dictator...
We may get lucky, but the odds aren't high. The last 4T fixed international afairs at the price of domesitc ones. As important as international issues are again this time, we may have to risk foreign problem to solve the problems at home. We may be the #1 nation, but we're not the only nation. It's time for our allies to carry more of the burden and give us room to fix our internal politics, but will they?
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If it's so difficult to get even your own side to rally behind him, how are you ever going to convince conservatives and libertarians, who have no reason to trust his track record either politically or personally, to do the same?
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(09-04-2022, 03:44 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: If it's so difficult to get even your own side to rally behind him, how are you ever going to convince conservatives and libertarians, who have no reason to trust his track record either politically or personally, to do the same?
He does have his base behind him. This said, one does not get real change until one gets 55% support to get one's proposals to have the combination of majority support and grudging acceptance from the rest.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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09-04-2022, 06:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2022, 06:34 PM by Eric the Green.)
(09-04-2022, 09:38 AM)David Horn Wrote: (09-03-2022, 01:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (09-03-2022, 06:56 AM)David Horn Wrote: If Biden is reelected, he'll default to caretaker status relatively early in his second term -- better than having an arsonist in charge but too little to create real change. Once again, the monied will escape and this will settle finally into 1980ish neoliberal lite in the 1T. It could be worse. It should be better.
Biden will still be in charge and pushing for the changes that we'll need. There being no-one else, he will be more than a caretaker. He certainly doesn't have a veep who can take over. Is there a potential House speaker who can fill that role? I don't see that person. A big challenge will be to put down the violent uprisings by the militias of the right wing in the mid-2020s after he wins re-election. I think he is ready and willing to meet the challenge, as he says he is.
This is a direct result of the Silent/Boomer leadership of both parties hanging on and not letting go. Younger pols have just waved and sreamed, but they can't get traction. The voting youth have decided it's futile, and just walked away. Running Biden again will just seal the deal. 2028 will be a bloodbath.
Biden will quell what bloodbath there is. He has pledged to, and he will. Biden's poll numbers are creeping up now. It's down to -10% negative, while Trump's are -15%. And he still leads over Trump and DeSantis. Like us, the youth wish there was someone else besides Grandpa, but they are willing to vote for him against what the other side offers. Gavin Newson will be ready to take over and run in 2028, and he has a good horoscope score. You have to run a candidate with a good horoscope score. It indicates someone who can lead and communicate. None of the 2020 Democratic candidates were remotely skilled; none of them could beat Biden, and that's because Biden was better, not because he was hanging on. Pelosi has had no replacement either, and frankly I still don't see one with the leadership skills she has.
I would like it if there were younger candidates who could fill these roles, but they just aren't there. Gen Xers and many Jones Boomers were too cynical, and those with the skill just went into other fields besides politics and government. Gretchen Whitmer and Corey Booker just don't have the stuff. Ron DeSantis might beat them. Even Trump could beat them. Unless Mitch Landrieu runs, we are stuck with Biden, and he can still win. Don't underestimate him. These speeches prove that he can arouse the passion behind him. When he focuses, he does not mumble or stumble more than any other candidate, or even than himself in the past. He has never spoken in public speeches before with this much force, conviction, articulation and dramatic passion. And he connects also because he is a people-friendly person.
Quote:Eric Wrote:We should do better than we will in this 4T. I guess that's true in most 4Ts. The status quo or a reactionary trend can make a comeback in 1Ts, but they also carry forward the momentum of the changes made during 4Ts, to varying degrees. The question is will we do what we need to do to steer the ship of state on a better course, whether everything gets done that should be done or not. Passing the climate action was a good first step, and as he said we are only just beginning. It will take a Democratic congress to do more. Biden is not to blame if we haven't gotten done all we should; the Democrats in the House did what was needed. The voters did not give Biden a real majority in the Senate, so that limited the results. Again it needs to be continually said. No president can do much without a congress, unless you want a dictator...
We may get lucky, but the odds aren't high. The last 4T fixed international affairs at the price of domesitc ones. As important as international issues are again this time, we may have to risk foreign problems to solve the problems at home. We may be the #1 nation, but we're not the only nation. It's time for our allies to carry more of the burden and give us room to fix our internal politics, but will they?
I don't know if the odds are high or not, but the stars are aligning, literally, and after all, Biden was able to get things going. Climate action was passed. If more is to be done between Jan.2023 and Jan.2025, Democrats must keep their slim margin in the House and attain a genuine margin in the Senate. As Biden said, we are only beginning.
I agree the double rhythm (which I first suggested, based on Neptune being twice the length of Uranus in its cycle that corresponds to the modern saeculum), as well as the obvious situations, indicates domestic affairs are the main focus of need this time around. Ours is the Cold Civil War fourth turning, and like last time the problems stem from the division, and this time the division comes from the power of neoliberalism combined with prejudice, concentrated in the Republican Party. They ARE the problem; they ARE the crisis. Come to think of it, the division isn't much different this time from last time. Just a Party switch.
However, there are both foreign and domestic problems in all 4Ts. The Allies need to do more, but we still are the big kahuna with the big military and the big bucks, so our role (for example in helping Ukraine) remains paramount. If Putin were not who he is, then we wouldn't be having to take this action.
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(09-04-2022, 03:44 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: If it's so difficult to get even your own side to rally behind him, how are you ever going to convince conservatives and libertarians, who have no reason to trust his track record either politically or personally, to do the same?
We don't need the votes of libertarians and conservatives. It will be up to them how many are willing to make peace and go along, rather than act out their ridiculous fantasies and grievances.
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(09-04-2022, 06:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We don't need the votes of libertarians and conservatives. It will be up to them how many are willing to make peace and go along, rather than act out their ridiculous fantasies and grievances.
"We don't need the votes of libertarians and conservatives".
*literally talks about how you need them to go along right afterword*
Anyway, any system that "doesn't need (insert 50%+ of the population here)" cannot be called a democracy. Even Trump won his first term by appealing to poor liberals who needed manufacturing jobs.
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09-04-2022, 09:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2022, 01:28 AM by Eric the Green.)
(09-04-2022, 08:25 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (09-04-2022, 06:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We don't need the votes of libertarians and conservatives. It will be up to them how many are willing to make peace and go along, rather than act out their ridiculous fantasies and grievances.
"We don't need the votes of libertarians and conservatives".
*literally talks about how you need them to go along right afterword*
Anyway, any system that "doesn't need (insert 50%+ of the population here)" cannot be called a democracy. Even Trump won his first term by appealing to poor liberals who needed manufacturing jobs.
We may not "need" them to go along. If they want to continue to rebel, then they will continue to be put down if they do it violently, and I hope defeated at the polls if they don't. But admittedly, as I have said, conservatives can make a comeback in 1Ts, we all know that. I suspect a moderate Republican, at least, may have a chance to win in 2032 or 2036, especially if this person is Spencer Cox or even Ivanka Trump.
Donald Trump deceived people to think he was interested in poor liberals who needed manufacturing jobs. They were no longer liberals if they voted for Trump, because Trump was just making promises of outcomes; what he proposed about how to accomplish this was just more Republican neoliberalism.
Democrats will need the votes of moderates, though. We'll need enough of them to realize that democracy is better than the tyranny and corruption that Trump offers, and that Biden stands up against-- and for reform to strengthen democracy, as he explained in one of his speeches here. He also mentioned in this speech how not a single Republican supported him in this. Republicans today may be conservatives, but they are not moderates. None of them are; none of them in congress at least, and not in many other places today. They are merely different degrees of conservative, and mostly extreme right.
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09-05-2022, 03:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2022, 03:59 PM by JasonBlack.)
(09-04-2022, 09:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We may not "need" them to go along. If they want to continue to rebel, then they will continue to be put down if they do it violently, and I hope defeated at the polls if they don't. But admittedly, as I have said, conservatives can make a comeback in 1Ts, we all know that. I suspect a moderate Republican, at least, may have a chance to win in 2032 or 2036, especially if this person is Spencer Cox or even Ivanka Trump.
Donald Trump deceived people to think he was interested in poor liberals who needed manufacturing jobs. They were no longer liberals if they voted for Trump, because Trump was just making promises of outcomes; what he proposed about how to accomplish this was just more Republican neoliberalism.
My comment on Trump was not about his effectiveness (although he did bring a considerable of manufacturing jobs back with him), but that he saw the strategic need to appeal people from across the isle.
Quote:Democrats will need the votes of moderates, though. We'll need enough of them to realize that democracy is better than the tyranny and corruption that Trump offers, and that Biden stands up against-- and for reform to strengthen democracy, as he explained in one of his speeches here. He also mentioned in this speech how not a single Republican supported him in this. Republicans today may be conservatives, but they are not moderates. None of them are; none of them in congress at least, and not in many other places today. They are merely different degrees of conservative, and mostly extreme right.
If you want someone to "stand against tyranny", a lifelong establishment shill is not your guy.
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