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(11-08-2022, 11:11 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: Not enough for me to start a war over, but I am really looking forward to some of the retribution Homelanders will levy against elder Millennials and (whatever remains of) Gen X for all these mandatory lockdowns during the next 2T (or, hopefully, sooner). If I had my way, all of government officials who instigated these lockdowns would be arrested, and its supporters among the public should be shamed for the rest of their lives.
The people imposing the lockdowns have largely been Boomers and X who know dominate American politics.
Quote:Honestly, idgaf about the masks. In fact, I still wear one at work because it's convenient to hide my headphones. I believe in being socially responsible and took all reasonable measures, including frequent test as I lived with my elderly parents at the time. I worked through the whole thing, watched my diet, called out from work if there was a potential I was contagious. No one had to "make" me do anything.
You still had to pay taxes, pay bills (reasonably), and obey existing laws.
Quote:....however, as an American, I was never more ashamed of my country as was the case in 2020. As Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." In March of 2020...we chose temporary safety, and decided that all it took to say the First Amendment "doesn't count" is for the rest of the country to freak out over an unknown respiratory virus.
I saw the masks and a vaccine as minor inconveniences in contrast to being hooked up to a respirator because of COVID-19. Does death constitute freedom? That is your call and not mine.
One could go far more places with a mask than without one, which is like saying that one can travel farther with a driver's license and appropriate tags and plates on your car than without them. Good reason exists for both drivers' licenses and license plates, such as denying the questionable freedom of getting away with stealing a car.
Quote:Every one of you who supported forcing half the economy to shut down for months (or in some cases, over a year) have chosen security over freedom. You believe it is your right to control people, even forcing small business owners to go belly under because they can't stay open, because "the greater good" is more important. You...are...a...coward!
People found ways, not always fully satisfying, to do what they most needed to do. Big Business did what it needed to do to get its activities done again.
I am one of those people in at least two high-risk conditions (age and an auto-immune disease even if it is "only" psoriasis). I consider myself to have had more freedom wearing a mask than not wearing one. Indeed, when wearing a mask was controversial I thanked people for wearing masks to greatly reduce the lethal danger of COVID-19. COVID-19 has killed more Americans than Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini combined.
I saw the struggle against COVID-19 tantamount to a war. We rightly conduct war in a way that allows us to win wars (ideally we win) with lesser cost of life.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-09-2022, 12:17 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: People found ways, not always fully satisfying, to do what they most needed to do. Big Business did what it needed to do to get its activities done again.
Unless they were a small busines owner who was forced out of business. They were not able to do what they needed to do.
Quote:I saw the masks and a vaccine as minor inconveniences in contrast to being hooked up to a respirator because of COVID-19. Does death constitute freedom? That is your call and not mine.
My view on masks is largely the same. What I took most issue with with regards to mask was the way many of my friend with breathing problems were shamed and coerced into wearing masks when they having trouble breathing. People didn't take the time to get any personal information before going after people who had important and perfectly legitimate reasons for not wearing one.
What was more than a minor inconvenience was the forced lockdowns, and there effect on the aforementioned small business owners who, in my opinion, are the backbone of America.
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(11-09-2022, 12:32 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-09-2022, 12:17 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: People found ways, not always fully satisfying, to do what they most needed to do. Big Business did what it needed to do to get its activities done again.
Unless they were a small business owner who was forced out of business. They were not able to do what they needed to do.
If you are talking about restaurants, many went take-out only. The ones who got hurt were often the wait-people no longer getting the tips to which they were accustomed. Government could do such things as take away liquor licenses to those places that served drinks. I must tell you that one of the most dangerous places to go during the plague was a bar full of loudmouths. If I owned a bar, then maybe I would require that customers wear masks to get service and that they drink their quaff through straws. Drastic situations often require drastic measures, and so it was with COVID-19.
Quote:I saw the masks and a vaccine as minor inconveniences in contrast to being hooked up to a respirator because of COVID-19. Does death constitute freedom? That is your call and not mine.
My view on masks is largely the same. What I took most issue with with regards to mask was the way many of my friend with breathing problems were shamed and coerced into wearing masks when they having trouble breathing. People didn't take the time to get any personal information before going after people who had important and perfectly legitimate reasons for not wearing one.
What was more than a minor inconvenience was the forced lockdowns, and there effect on the aforementioned small business owners who, in my opinion, are the backbone of America.
Even the Pope demanded that Catholic churches close so that Masses would not be super-spreader events. I would guess that the Pope warned that non-compliance would result in being defrocked. So watch Masses on EWTN. Catholic or not, people came to recognize much the same about much else.
People who defied the warnings all too often ended up dead.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-09-2022, 12:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-09-2022, 12:32 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-09-2022, 12:17 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: People found ways, not always fully satisfying, to do what they most needed to do. Big Business did what it needed to do to get its activities done again.
Unless they were a small business owner who was forced out of business. They were not able to do what they needed to do.
If you are talking about restaurants, many went take-out only. The ones who got hurt were often the wait-people no longer getting the tips to which they were accustomed. Government could do such things as take away liquor licenses to those places that served drinks. I must tell you that one of the most dangerous places to go during the plague was a bar full of loudmouths. If I owned a bar, then maybe I would require that customers wear masks to get service and that they drink their quaff through straws. Drastic situations often require drastic measures, and so it was with COVID-19.
Quote:I saw the masks and a vaccine as minor inconveniences in contrast to being hooked up to a respirator because of COVID-19. Does death constitute freedom? That is your call and not mine.
My view on masks is largely the same. What I took most issue with with regards to mask was the way many of my friend with breathing problems were shamed and coerced into wearing masks when they having trouble breathing. People didn't take the time to get any personal information before going after people who had important and perfectly legitimate reasons for not wearing one.
What was more than a minor inconvenience was the forced lockdowns, and there effect on the aforementioned small business owners who, in my opinion, are the backbone of America.
Even the Pope demanded that Catholic churches close so that Masses would not be super-spreader events. I would guess that the Pope warned that non-compliance would result in being defrocked. So watch Masses on EWTN. Catholic or not, people came to recognize much the same about much else.
People who defied the warnings all too often ended up dead.
And yet people in Georgia voted for their governor because he lifted the lockdowns and mandates so quickly, so that more people died there than in other states per capita.
And then he and other Republicans shouted "inflation" to get votes, saying that the government should not have spent money to help people and small businesses recover from the lockdowns that the government itself imposed.
Republicans will go to any length to deceive and foment evil upon the people.
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11-09-2022, 09:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2022, 09:27 PM by JasonBlack.)
(11-09-2022, 07:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And yet people in Georgia voted for their governor because he lifted the lockdowns and mandates so quickly, so that more people died there than in other states per capita.
And then he and other Republicans shouted "inflation" to get votes, saying that the government should not have spent money to help people and small businesses recover from the lockdowns that the government itself imposed.
Republicans will go to any length to deceive and foment evil upon the people.
Yes, a few more people died, but that doesn't give people the right to....literally stop people from going to work. There is an order of magnitude difference between restricting the behavior of, say, a drunk driver going 30 miles above the speed limit and a small business owner going into the shop, a regular citizen going into work, a mother taking her children to a nature reserve (yes, that was restricted in many states, and throughout all of Canada). "Fomenting evil upon people" is...truly a colorful way of describing such a banal set of activities.
I repeat: freedom is more important than security. This is, quite possibly, THE most important concept of what it means to be an American. There is conservatives tell some people to leave. We aren't for everyone.
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(11-09-2022, 09:26 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-09-2022, 07:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And yet people in Georgia voted for their governor because he lifted the lockdowns and mandates so quickly, so that more people died there than in other states per capita.
And then he and other Republicans shouted "inflation" to get votes, saying that the government should not have spent money to help people and small businesses recover from the lockdowns that the government itself imposed.
Republicans will go to any length to deceive and foment evil upon the people.
Yes, a few more people died, but that doesn't give people the right to....literally stop people from going to work. There is an order of magnitude difference between restricting the behavior of, say, a drunk driver going 30 miles above the speed limit and a small business owner going into the shop, a regular citizen going into work, a mother taking her children to a nature reserve (yes, that was restricted in many states, and throughout all of Canada). "Fomenting evil upon people" is...truly a colorful way of describing such a banal set of activities.
I repeat: freedom is more important than security. This is, quite possibly, THE most important concept of what it means to be an American. There is conservatives tell some people to leave. We aren't for everyone.
We know that many jobs (construction, police work, fire fighting, truck driving, working on utility lines) is more dangerous than average. We do what we can to reduce the dangers. COVID-19 is an added danger not work-related.
COVID-19 is a plague, and I can assure you that both the Black Death and the influenza epidemic both imposed great dislocations to the economics of the time. America endured a major recession in 1920-1921 related, most likely, to the aftermath of the influenza epidemic. Like the Black Death and COVID-`19 its effective on mass death was entirely additive. Choking to death is not my idea of freedom any more than having one's neck broken or throttled in a hanging is freedom.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-09-2022, 10:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We know that many jobs (construction, police work, fire fighting, truck driving, working on utility lines) is more dangerous than average. We do what we can to reduce the dangers. COVID-19 is an added danger not work-related.
COVID-19 is a plague, and I can assure you that both the Black Death and the influenza epidemic both imposed great dislocations to the economics of the time. America endured a major recession in 1920-1921 related, most likely, to the aftermath of the influenza epidemic. Like the Black Death and COVID-`19 its effective on mass death was entirely additive. Choking to death is not my idea of freedom any more than having one's neck broken or throttled in a hanging is freedom.
Your chances of dying in any one year from a vehicle-related accident are pretty high, but we allow people to drive because they have to get to work. The worst part is that we performed all these lockdowns and mandates without any prior knowledge. They couldn't decide whether to tell us "we don't know" or "trust the science", and would frequently make contradictory claims on a weekly basis, then try to backpeddle and say "I never said that". For example, I'm not some anti-vaxxer Q-Anon type, but it's a matter of common sense that you cannot prove that a vaccine is "long term safe" unless you do long term trials. You cannot claim a vaccine won't have serious side effects in a matter of years when you have only tested it for 6 months, yet that's exactly that they did. They also changed their minds on masks about 5 times, changed the definition of pandemic, changed the definition of heard immunity and acted surprised when children gained weight at alarming rates when they were locked indoors. Intellectual dishonesty. Intellectual dishonesty at every turn.
The big government people (mostly on the left, but many on the right) don't want things to go back to normal. People exercising basic ass freedom is "hyper-individualism" to them, and gives them no role in controlling the lives of the ordinary public. They hate freedom, they hate individualism, and, more than anything, they hate power (in the hands of anyone but themselves).
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It is enough to say that you will have much less likelihood of contracting COVID-19 and even lesser chance of severe consequences and death from COVID-19 if inoculated for it. I see the argument analogous to that for seat belts. Can you be injured if you are wearing a seat belt during a vehicle collision? Yes. Can you die while wearing a seatbelt? Yes. But the likelihood for severe injury or death is far lower for those wearing a seat belt.
The vehicle compartment itself gives some protection from intrusions by objects that can hurt you. Being thrown from the car is a very bad result. Hitting the windshield can make you unconscious should the car catch fire. Unfastening your seatbelt will be easy if you remain conscious.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-10-2022, 02:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: It is enough to say that you will have much less likelihood of contracting COVID-19 and even lesser chance of severe consequences and death from COVID-19 if inoculated for it. I see the argument analogous to that for seat belts. Can you be injured if you are wearing a seat belt during a vehicle collision? Yes. Can you die while wearing a seatbelt? Yes. But the likelihood for severe injury or death is far lower for those wearing a seat belt.
The vehicle compartment itself gives some protection from intrusions by objects that can hurt you. Being thrown from the car is a very bad result. Hitting the windshield can make you unconscious should the car catch fire. Unfastening your seatbelt will be easy if you remain conscious.
What I was concerned with had little to do with my opinion on vaccines themselves, but on the intellectually dishonest claims that health officials made about them left and right.
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(11-10-2022, 01:26 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-10-2022, 02:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: It is enough to say that you will have much less likelihood of contracting COVID-19 and even lesser chance of severe consequences and death from COVID-19 if inoculated for it. I see the argument analogous to that for seat belts. Can you be injured if you are wearing a seat belt during a vehicle collision? Yes. Can you die while wearing a seatbelt? Yes. But the likelihood for severe injury or death is far lower for those wearing a seat belt.
The vehicle compartment itself gives some protection from intrusions by objects that can hurt you. Being thrown from the car is a very bad result. Hitting the windshield can make you unconscious should the car catch fire. Unfastening your seatbelt will be easy if you remain conscious.
What I was concerned with had little to do with my opinion on vaccines themselves, but on the intellectually dishonest claims that health officials made about them left and right.
Knowledge in an emergency is almost never perfect. We certainly overdid the stuff on cleaning wipes, as the COVID-19 virus has been shown to have a short lifetime on inanimate surfaces. See also HIV. Much of the analogy for COVID-19 was HIV, and that proved a very flawed analogue.
We do the best with what we have.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-10-2022, 01:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Knowledge in an emergency is almost never perfect. We certainly overdid the stuff on cleaning wipes, as the COVID-19 virus has been shown to have a short lifetime on inanimate surfaces. See also HIV. Much of the analogy for COVID-19 was HIV, and that proved a very flawed analogue.
We do the best with what we have.
I think we did a terrible job tbh, but we did much, much better than the draconian nonsense all across Europe and, especially, Australia (armed guards patroling the streets, helicopters looking for people who were out in the woods rather than at home, requirements to text the police with your location....insane shit I would have thought was impossible in the West just a few months prior).
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11-10-2022, 04:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2022, 04:28 PM by Eric the Green.)
(11-09-2022, 09:26 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-09-2022, 07:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And yet people in Georgia voted for their governor because he lifted the lockdowns and mandates so quickly, so that more people died there than in other states per capita.
And then he and other Republicans shouted "inflation" to get votes, saying that the government should not have spent money to help people and small businesses recover from the lockdowns that the government itself imposed.
Republicans will go to any length to deceive and foment evil upon the people.
Yes, a few more people died, but that doesn't give people the right to....literally stop people from going to work. There is an order of magnitude difference between restricting the behavior of, say, a drunk driver going 30 miles above the speed limit and a small business owner going into the shop, a regular citizen going into work, a mother taking her children to a nature reserve (yes, that was restricted in many states, and throughout all of Canada). "Fomenting evil upon people" is...truly a colorful way of describing such a banal set of activities.
I repeat: freedom is more important than security. This is, quite possibly, THE most important concept of what it means to be an American. There is conservatives tell some people to leave. We aren't for everyone.
Over a million people died is not a "few more". It does give people and their government the right to literally stop people from going to work, yes, because this covid contagion was severe enough to require this. And yet the Republicans use "Democrat government spending causes inflation" to deceive people in Wisconsin and Ohio into keeping the country going backward, just because the congress (in both bipartisan as well as Democratic bills) fulfilled its responsibility to support people and businesses during the shutdowns it imposed, and to help people recover economically from them. Republicans think the shutdowns, which they helped to impose, should NOT help the people through this government-imposed policy.
This cruel and selfish deception fooled enough people to keep the Biden agenda stalled, but enough of the people saw through it to greatly reduce the size of the expected "red wave." Republicans have no answer for anything except to lower taxes on the rich and impose restrictions of their own of our freedom-- those which have NO justification whatever, in contrast to the shutdowns and mandates which protected us and allowed us now to get back to normal...
"freedom is more important than security" is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with the reality of what's happening.
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(11-10-2022, 03:14 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-10-2022, 01:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Knowledge in an emergency is almost never perfect. We certainly overdid the stuff on cleaning wipes, as the COVID-19 virus has been shown to have a short lifetime on inanimate surfaces. See also HIV. Much of the analogy for COVID-19 was HIV, and that proved a very flawed analogue.
We do the best with what we have.
I think we did a terrible job tbh, but we did much, much better than the draconian nonsense all across Europe and, especially, Australia (armed guards patroling the streets, helicopters looking for people who were out in the woods rather than at home, requirements to text the police with your location....insane shit I would have thought was impossible in the West just a few months prior).
And no-one thought such a terrible contagion was going to happen in The West.
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(11-10-2022, 04:26 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-09-2022, 09:26 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-09-2022, 07:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And yet people in Georgia voted for their governor because he lifted the lockdowns and mandates so quickly, so that more people died there than in other states per capita.
And then he and other Republicans shouted "inflation" to get votes, saying that the government should not have spent money to help people and small businesses recover from the lockdowns that the government itself imposed.
Republicans will go to any length to deceive and foment evil upon the people.
Yes, a few more people died, but that doesn't give people the right to....literally stop people from going to work. There is an order of magnitude difference between restricting the behavior of, say, a drunk driver going 30 miles above the speed limit and a small business owner going into the shop, a regular citizen going into work, a mother taking her children to a nature reserve (yes, that was restricted in many states, and throughout all of Canada). "Fomenting evil upon people" is...truly a colorful way of describing such a banal set of activities.
I repeat: freedom is more important than security. This is, quite possibly, THE most important concept of what it means to be an American. There is conservatives tell some people to leave. We aren't for everyone.
Over a million people died is not a "few more". It does give people and their government the right to literally stop people from going to work, yes, because this covid contagion was severe enough to require this. And yet the Republicans use "Democrat government spending causes inflation" to deceive people in Wisconsin and Ohio into keeping the country going backward, just because the congress (in both bipartisan as well as Democratic bills) fulfilled its responsibility to support people and businesses during the shutdowns it imposed, and to help people recover economically from them. Republicans think the shutdowns, which they helped to impose, should NOT help the people through this government-imposed policy.
This cruel and selfish deception fooled enough people to keep the Biden agenda stalled, but enough of the people saw through it to greatly reduce the size of the expected "red wave." Republicans have no answer for anything except to lower taxes on the rich and impose restrictions of their own of our freedom-- those which have NO justification whatever, in contrast to the shutdowns and mandates which protected us and allowed us now to get back to normal...
"freedom is more important than security" is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with the reality of what's happening.
It has everything to do with the reality we are currently facing, including both the current post-covid depression, and Europe's economic collapse (Putin's invasion has made it worse, but it was happening at least a year before that).
Freedom over security is more than just a slogan. It's a principle that hundreds of thousands of Americans have given their lives to defend: the blood of patriots watering the tree of liberty. It is why we have risen to become the most powerful nation in world history. Whether we continue this proud history is up to the my generation, and I am not optimistic.
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(11-10-2022, 04:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And no-one thought such a terrible contagion was going to happen in The West.
Then they were fools. I viewed it as a strong possibility since I was about 15. I lumped them in with the other fools saying things like "housing prices always go up", "there will never be another major world war", and "you can be whatever you want as long as you go to college".
People want to be disrespectful to those who make obvious calls in advance, only to turn around and say "You need to let us off the hook! There's no way we could have known!"
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11-10-2022, 05:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2022, 05:50 PM by Eric the Green.)
(11-10-2022, 04:39 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-10-2022, 04:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And no-one thought such a terrible contagion was going to happen in The West.
Then they were fools. I viewed it as a strong possibility since I was about 15. I lumped them in with the other fools saying things like "housing prices always go up", "there will never be another major world war", and "you can be whatever you want as long as you go to college".
People want to be disrespectful to those who make obvious calls in advance, only to turn around and say "You need to let us off the hook! There's no way we could have known!"
There was no way to anticipate the severity of this outbreak, or that we would have a president who wanted to ignore it and make it worse and to dismantle the provisions that Susan Rice and others during the previous presidency had put into effect to meet pandemics.
There is no excuse for saying that the government should not have responded to this pandemic with measures AT LEAST as strict as those put into effect. You should also have anticipated strong "draconic" measures could be taken in The West for some reason. It has happened before. Just another strong possibility to lump in with the others you mentioned.
Quote:It has everything to do with the reality we are currently facing, including both the current post-covid depression, and Europe's economic collapse (Putin's invasion has made it worse, but it was happening at least a year before that).
Freedom over security is more than just a slogan. It's a principle that hundreds of thousands of Americans have given their lives to defend: the blood of patriots watering the tree of liberty. It is why we have risen to become the most powerful nation in world history. Whether we continue this proud history is up to my generation, and I am not optimistic.
"freedom is more important than security" is just a slogan that has nothing whatever to do with reality. What is freedom? What is security? How can you separate them? And you are the ammosexual who thinks guns are "freedom" because they provide "security", when in fact they provide neither.
There is no post-covid "depression", although Republicans use "inflation" just for political purposes and have no answer for it at all.
Hundreds of thousands of US Americans have given their lives for democracy, but it is being severely betrayed by the political Party that claims it stands for "freedom". "Defending freedom over security", as you call this armed fighting, is always carried out in the name of "national security" too. And the US has not fought a war for the freedom of the US since World War II. I am struggling with optimism too. The Republicans want to take away voting results from the people and give it to gerrymandered legislatures that they themselves imposed upon the people. They do this powered by a misinformation campaign unprecedented in the world since the days of Hitler. And this extended from covid and vaccine denials to election denials and climate science denials too. There is nothing more threatening to our nation today than this campaign.
The US has been a militarized bully since 1946, a victim of misinformation conspiracy theory since 1966, and a blind addict to trickle-down economics since 1980, and these facts have reserved the "power" of the "most powerful nation in world history" to a tiny fraction of the richest and most powerful people within this nation, and has made it the most unequal developed nation and worst developed nation in the world on all social and health scales.
I'd like to be proud of my country, but I want it to do right and not wrong.
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(11-10-2022, 05:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'd like to be proud of my country, but I want it to do right and not wrong.
If you believe in the 1st Amendment only when it's convenient and the 2nd not at all, this hardly surprises me. Alas, I feel the same, but for opposite reasons. Still, all but the most radical boomers are better in this regard than the average millennial. At least you want to limit the first amendment for safety reasons, rather than for reasons of fighting "micro-aggressions" and putting bans on "offensive behavior".
40% of them explicitly believe the government has the right to censor free speech if deemed "hateful" (who by, they don't specify). Keep in mind there are less credible sources which report figures much, much higher than this, but I'm erring on the side of understatement. We should also consider that, using Strauss and Howe definitions, these numbers will likely be even higher (today's 19 to 20 somethings are far more critical of free speech than today's 35-40yo).
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...inorities/
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11-14-2022, 03:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2022, 03:48 PM by Eric the Green.)
(11-10-2022, 08:31 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-10-2022, 05:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'd like to be proud of my country, but I want it to do right and not wrong.
If you believe in the 1st Amendment only when it's convenient and the 2nd not at all, this hardly surprises me. Alas, I feel the same, but for opposite reasons. Still, all but the most radical boomers are better in this regard than the average millennial. At least you want to limit the first amendment for safety reasons, rather than for reasons of fighting "micro-aggressions" and putting bans on "offensive behavior".
40% of them explicitly believe the government has the right to censor free speech if deemed "hateful" (who by, they don't specify). Keep in mind there are less credible sources which report figures much, much higher than this, but I'm erring on the side of understatement. We should also consider that, using Strauss and Howe definitions, these numbers will likely be even higher (today's 19 to 20 somethings are far more critical of free speech than today's 35-40yo).
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...inorities/
I don't support the 2nd Amendment at all, although I don't think fighting a civil war to disarm the people is the right approach. It will be some generation(s) before we realize this amendment, and most if not all guns, are not needed and ARE needlessly deadly. Unless, of course, we do fight that civil war. Then the rebel side will need guns as part of its well-regulated new-government militia.
There are reasonable limits to 1st Amendment rights. Hate speech can be limited if it incites violence. The right to discriminate is not afford by the right to freedom of religion. But creeps like Ted Cruz dedicate their lives to create confusions like these so they can oppress and kill people.
The Strauss and Howe definitions of generational dates are always to be preferred over Pew demographic dates.
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(11-14-2022, 03:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The Strauss and Howe definitions of generational dates are always to be preferred over Pew demographic dates.
On this much, we wholeheartedly agree.
ammosexual
reluctant millennial
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(11-14-2022, 03:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-10-2022, 08:31 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (11-10-2022, 05:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'd like to be proud of my country, but I want it to do right and not wrong.
If you believe in the 1st Amendment only when it's convenient and the 2nd not at all, this hardly surprises me. Alas, I feel the same, but for opposite reasons. Still, all but the most radical boomers are better in this regard than the average millennial. At least you want to limit the first amendment for safety reasons, rather than for reasons of fighting "micro-aggressions" and putting bans on "offensive behavior".
40% of them explicitly believe the government has the right to censor free speech if deemed "hateful" (who by, they don't specify). Keep in mind there are less credible sources which report figures much, much higher than this, but I'm erring on the side of understatement. We should also consider that, using Strauss and Howe definitions, these numbers will likely be even higher (today's 19 to 20 somethings are far more critical of free speech than today's 35-40yo).
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...inorities/
I don't support the 2nd Amendment at all, although I don't think fighting a civil war to disarm the people is the right approach. It will be some generation(s) before we realize this amendment, and most if not all guns, are not needed and ARE needlessly deadly. Unless, of course, we do fight that civil war. Then the rebel side will need guns as part of its well-regulated new-government militia.
There are reasonable limits to 1st Amendment rights. Hate speech can be limited if it incites violence. The right to discriminate is not afford by the right to freedom of religion. But creeps like Ted Cruz dedicate their lives to create confusions like these so they can oppress and kill people.
The Strauss and Howe definitions of generational dates are always to be preferred over Pew demographic dates.
correction: The right to discriminate is not afforded by the right to freedom of religion.
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