Trump brought the Regeneracy, just not in the way he expected.

[SomeGuy]

EDITED because, to hell with it, I'm gonna try ignore.

[Odin]

(03-13-2017, 08:43 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 07:37 AM)Odin Wrote:

(03-12-2017, 02:25 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Well Odin hasn't said anything about being queer, or having gender dysphoria, so he's obviously straight, and not-dysphoric. Also he is white, being a Swede or some such thing so he's pretty much screwed if he wants to play oppression Olympics with me.

Good thing the oppression Olympics is bullshit.

Norwegian, actually. And I don't have time for the "my preferred made up pronouns are" Tumblr insanity, I just hate people being bigoted assholes.

I was close enough.  Be glad I didn't accuse you of being German or *gasp* Anglo-Saxon.  I'm sure your life would ended.

I don't have time for any of that New Left regressive nonsense.  I didn't have time for it when I was a communist.  Which is why you used to call me an Unreformed Stalinist.  I definitely don't have time for it now.

But here's the thing Odin, you're being New Left, perhaps unintentionally.  I suggest you examine what you believe in the light of the commonly accepted reality.

Of course I've also suggested reading sources of news beyond your own propaganda.  If for nothing else to know what the other side is thinking.  Who knows, you might even leave the left too.  There really is no place for people who actually want to end racism, sexism, and homophobia over there.  Identity politics requires those things to exist, and where they don't exist, it will create them.

Are there 14/88ers over here?  Yeah, but they are small, nearly universally hated, and irrelevant.  

As for the Trans...they really do have a mental disorder and need help not pronouns, surgery or coddling.  I'm thinking a psychologist at the very least.

(03-13-2017, 08:22 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:And I don't have time for the "my preferred made up pronouns are" Tumblr insanity, I just hate people being bigoted assholes.

Then you're obviously a bigoted asshole.  Ze lives matter! 

Yes, he really needs to learn how to not be bigoted and to hate everyone equally like I do.

I actually have German ancestry, too. Even worse, PRUSSIAN German!

A lot of my attitudes to social issues come from my own personal experiences growing up of often being ostracized and bullied, of being constantly accused of being gay just because I didn't act sufficiently "conventionally masculine" for the rural Midwest. It left me with a deep resentment against socially conservative views of all kinds and made me want to stick up for the eccentrics, minorities, and odd-balls.

And you accuse me of reading "propaganda", but to me that is what all YOUR side's material is, I have zero time for any of the Right's "Leftists are the real racists" nonsense and other such garbage. Your denial that your side is full of Neo-Nazis that think you are an inferior human being is sad.

[Kinser79]

(03-13-2017, 05:00 PM)Odin Wrote: I actually have German ancestry, too. Even worse, PRUSSIAN German!

And how is Prussian German "even worse"? Inquiring minds want to know.

Quote:A lot of my attitudes to social issues come from my own personal experiences growing up of often being ostracized and bullied, of being constantly accused of being gay just because I didn't act sufficiently "conventionally masculine" for the rural Midwest. It left me with a deep resentment against socially conservative views of all kinds and made me want to stick up for the eccentrics, minorities, and odd-balls.

Imagine for a moment life for an actually gay, racial minority who to grew up in the Midwest (and most of the time rural Midwest at that). And Middle Illinois and Indiana are not known for their history of racial tolerance. I could have grown resentful myself had I chosen to go that route. Instead, I chose to better myself and to dominate those who would otherwise dominate me. Probably because I have a master morality rather than a slave morality.

>>See the works of Nietzsche.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%...e_morality

(Wikipedia is not comprehensive but it gives you a few places to start. Like the Bible I've forgotten more Nietzche than most people ever learn.)

As for socially conservative...you need to define that.

I have no use for bible thumpers really but they are mostly small, and growing old. They can be easily ignored. Even the most otherwise conservative people in X and Millies (and probably even Z) have no problems with either gays or racial minorities (unless of course said gays or racial minorities make themselves a problem). [Who starts it does matter Odin.]

I have no problem with those who want to preserve American society as it currently is (well for the most part). And as for government, the less of it there is the better I like it. And the more local it is, the better I like it.

Quote:And you accuse me of reading "propaganda",

I don't accuse you, I'm telling you point blank the trash you're reading IS propaganda.

I mean don't get me wrong, everything else is propaganda too, but one offers hope, the other only slavery. Socialism may make everyone equal, but it makes them equally poor, and equally debased. Given the choice between a lowest common denominator form of equality and the inequality of being able to reach whatever heights I am capable of. I choose the latter.

>>>I suggest reading "Radicalism and its Stupidities". But I have to admit the book while short is over a century old, and written for England of that time.

Quote:but to me

Negates your following point.

Quote:that is what all YOUR side's material is, I have zero time for any of the Right's "Leftists are the real racists" nonsense and other such garbage. Your denial that your side is full of Neo-Nazis that think you are an inferior human being is sad.

I've never denied that Neo-Nazis exist. They do. Just like the Klan exists. But they are neither numerically or politically powerful. The best antiseptic for terrible ideas is to let them be spoken (and then ridiculed). Unless of course your contention is that everyone else lacks the capacity of intellect to make up their own mind about the nature of such ideas.

As for the racism of the left: Tell me who still brings up systemic racism? Not the right. In fact if the US had a system of overt racial oppression then explain to me why the US elected a black president, not once, but twice (so it wasn't no fluke). To hear the leftists talk, the US is one big Klan rally. Well, I'll be damned if they didn't just make a <N> Grand Wizard (or whatever) for 8 years.

If the left isn't racist then explain to me why I "need" affirmative action to get X job, or Y degree? Is it because as a black person I'm mentally inferior to whites? If I'm as good as a white would I not be hired just like the white? If I'm as smart as the white and have the money wouldn't I get the degree?

Coming from someone who is himself black, the only people who still use "because slavery X, Y, Z" are themselves still slaves. Their mind is chained into a slave morality. They have a slave mentality because of that morality. And on top of that not even all slaves were black (just like not all masters were white). The largest group of slaves for the longest period of time in America were actually Irish. I don't see any micks running around whining about slavery. No instead they got free and went out and got for themselves.

Odin the Problem of Racism on the Left is that they don't recognize that they are racist. Part of that has to do with the Left being filled with those who use Slave Morality. Part of it is they don't see anything wrong with taking advantage of those with a slave morality.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:I actually have German ancestry, too. Even worse, PRUSSIAN German!

See, we knew the Left were "the REAL Nazis"! 
<For what it's worth, I have Prussian ancestry too, by way of Wisconsin>

Quote:A lot of my attitudes to social issues come from my own personal experiences growing up of often being ostracized and bullied, of being constantly accused of being gay just because I didn't act sufficiently "conventionally masculine" for the rural Midwest. It left me with a deep resentment against socially conservative views of all kinds and made me want to stick up for the eccentrics, minorities, and odd-balls.

Yes, I have noticed a lot of that sort of thing before.  You really sure you should base a whole political philosophy on adolescent resentment?

Quote:And you accuse me of reading "propaganda", but to me that is what all YOUR side's material is, I have zero time for any of the Right's "Leftists are the real racists" nonsense and other such garbage. Your denial that your side is full of Neo-Nazis that think you are an inferior human being is sad.

Excuse me, technical interjection here.  It's only "propaganda" when the bad guys do it, it's called "PSYOP" when your side does it.  At least, according to the US Army.  
In practice, it's all propaganda.  Or "public relations" if you prefer to use Newspeak.  Management of public opinion is fundamental to any sort of large-scale endeavor, be it a corporation or a political movement.  Even journalists are not immune, from the Gazette of the United States v. National Gazette to Hearst's yellow journalism to Mika Brzezinski stating that the job of the media is "to control exactly what people think".  I hear Walter Lippman's Public Opinion is a good place to start (it's on my acquisitions list).

[SomeGuy]

[Kinser79]

Alphabet, I have my doubts that you are a real conservative. After all you want to spend loads of government money on a huge government project called the Warfare state. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to spending for defense. But that's just it, I favor spending for Defense. In the USA's case that means we need a nice big navy and a nice big air force and well we can deal with a smaller professional core army that can be expanded through conscription should some dumb ass make us his problem.

What I oppose is spending billions on having military bases everywhere. Spending billions on spying on Americans. Spending billions on whatever other wasteful shit the Pentagon, NSA, CIA can dream up.

As for your marriage of convenience with the left, you'll see what you get with them. If you're really a conservative you won't be happy with the result. But if you're a NeoCon well, you always were a leftist anyway since the Neo-Conservative view point all comes from Trotskyism to start with.

http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/facets-n...g-america/

[Odin]

Kinser, there is a popular stereotype of "Prussianism" that saw Nazism as rooted in Prussian culture.

As for Nietzsche, it's been ages since I read On The Genealogy of Morals in college, but, yeah, Nietzsche would definitely say that I have more of a slave morality. I associate what he calls "slave morality" with the ethical revolutions of the Axial Age.

One can be consciously opposed to racism and still have subconscious racist attitudes. One can enthusiastically vote for Obama for president and unconsciously act unusually protective of your purse when a black guy walks by you on the street, or unconsciously favor an equally qualified white job applicant over a black applicant. Some idiots on college campuses may misuse concepts like "white privilege" to imply that all white people are maliciously racist in order to get their self-righteous catharsis boner on, but that is not at all what the concept of systemic racism is really about.

(03-13-2017, 05:46 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: You really sure you should base a whole political philosophy on adolescent resentment?

It's not that I base a whole political philosophy around it, I was just explaining why I am sensitive to a lot of the issues that people want to just dismiss as "identity politics".

[SomeGuy]

Quote:This is but the beginning.

You'll come to find out that just like what happened to Ford, Coughlin, et al, you'll be a bunch of zeros and forgotten by history, if not despised by it.

Has Henry Ford been forgotten by history?  Who was he again? 

So, I (we?) will be "a bunch of zeros" for... not advocating WWIII?  Do you really think if you get to live out your fantasies of a nuclear exchange, that future generations will look back fondly on the decision? 

[Kinser79]

(03-13-2017, 06:45 PM)Odin Wrote: Kinser, there is a popular stereotype of "Prussianism" that saw Nazism as rooted in Prussian culture.

Odd, the most important Nazis were all Bavarians and the Prussians were really the last to hop on that train.  Mostly the Prussians were the Industrial and Military elite, the elites inevitably side with whomever holds power be he Hitler, Stalin, or Roosevelt (I'll let you pick which one).

Quote:As for Nietzsche, it's been ages since I read On The Genealogy of Morals in college, but, yeah, Nietzsche would definitely say that I have more of a slave morality. I associate what he calls "slave morality" with the ethical revolutions of the Axial Age.

I would call having slave morality the precursor to having a slave mentality.  As a black man with enslaved ancestors I don't want anything to be enslaved.  Not my morals, not my mind and certainly not me.

Quote:One can be consciously opposed to racism and still have subconscious racist attitudes.

That describes most leftists actually.

Quote:One can enthusiastically vote for Obama for president and unconsciously act unusually protective of your purse when a black guy walks by you on the street,

Bad example.  Blacks are more likely to snatch a woman's purse than a white is.  By the same token a white is more likely to embezzle from a company than a black is.

Just remember total blacks are 13% of the population.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...verviewpdf

In b4 "Hurr the FBI is racist".  

Quote:or unconsciously favor an equally qualified white job applicant over a black applicant.

I know many many black people, and am myself black.  I've never been turned down for a job to which I was qualified.  In fact I've been offered jobs to which I was not qualified.  The same is true for my black friends (mind you we aren't your typical run of the mill hood rats--I think I discussed previously about having "the wrong kind of blackness" I can go into detail if you like but really belongs in an other thread.

Quote:Some idiots on college campuses may misuse concepts like "white privilege" to imply that all white people are maliciously racist in order to get their self-righteous catharsis boner on,

Were it moronic college students I'd be more tolerant of it, but unfortunately the people doing precisely that are professors.

Quote:

(03-13-2017, 05:46 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: You really sure you should base a whole political philosophy on adolescent resentment?

It's not that I base a whole political philosophy around it, I was just explaining why I am sensitive to a lot of the issues that people want to just dismiss as "identity politics".

And yet that is precisely what you're doing Odin.  I strongly recommend self-reflection on this matter.  It was hard for me too, remember I started with Marxism when I was 13 and finally walked away at 36 so I spent 62.16% of my life on an political philosophy that was getting me nowhere.

[Eric the Green]

The only regeneracy today is the opposition to Trump

[Galen]

(03-13-2017, 05:00 PM)Odin Wrote: And you accuse me of reading "propaganda", but to me that is what all YOUR side's material is, I have zero time for any of the Right's "Leftists are the real racists" nonsense and other such garbage. Your denial that your side is full of Neo-Nazis that think you are an inferior human being is sad.

The obsession the left has with the subject of racism would seem to suggest otherwise.

[The Wonkette]

(03-13-2017, 07:34 AM)Odin Wrote: I think Brower's issues come more from depression than from his Asperger's.

I don't think any of us armchair psychiatrists have any basis to judge whether PBrower is on the spectrum or not, versus being depressed. I don't believe any of us have actually met the man in person; how one posts isn't always a good proxy.

[SomeGuy]

Hey, according to him, a "real" psychiatrist said he was on the spectrum.  Should their judgement be off-limits as well, when he makes an effort to post said judgement to the forum?

[pbrower2a]

(03-14-2017, 12:18 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Hey, according to him, a "real" psychiatrist said he was on the spectrum.  Should their judgement be off-limits as well, when he makes an effort to post said judgement to the forum?

Detail: I was going to check myself in for depression. I brought a change of clothes, an electric razor, and a toothbrush.

Detail: I was diagnosed in less than thirty minutes... for Asperger's. I am not going to give the questions that led to the diagnosis due to its potential for abuse.


Detail: I was convinced that the depression that I had was a consequence of Asperger's and then current-realities in my life (caretaker for a father with senile dementia)

Detail: I showed myself very self-righteous about drugs and alcoholism.

Detail: I was referred to counseling because I would have been a bad match for the residential setting in which most people are there for drugs and alcohol.

Detail: I left with an unused change of clothes and my razor and toothbrush were not used there. The staff might have liked me, but the dopers and boozers would have hated me. I might have had my car trashed.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:Detail: I was diagnosed in less than thirty minutes... for Asperger's.

That's not a real diagnosis.  I got one of those, too, from the psychiatrist at the VA ER room (first step in the admission process).  I spoke to a "real" psychiatrist later and she said that that was ridiculous.
I would be skeptical of that diagnosis.  Not saying it isn't real, but I would take it with a grain of salt, maybe go and get a second opinion.

Quote:Detail: I was convinced that the depression that I had was a consequence of Asperger's and then current-realities in my life (caretaker for a father with senile dementia)

Convinced by whom?

Quote:Detail: I showed myself very self-righteous about drugs and alcoholism.

Really?  You're trying to check yourself in for personal problems and you're ready to cast stones at everyone else in there?

Quote:Detail: I was referred to counseling because I would have been a bad match for the residential setting in which most people are there for drugs and alcohol.

How is that coming along?  What did the staff say?

Quote:Detail: I left with an unused change of clothes and my razor and toothbrush were not used there. The staff might have liked me, but the dopers and boozers would have hated me. I might have had my car trashed.

"Dopers" and "boozers"?  Are you telling me you simply couldn't manage to get along with other people seeking treatment, and that of course this is their fault?  Are you certain that smug self-righteousness is really the right attitude to take when seeking help?

[pbrower2a]

(03-14-2017, 12:50 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (Self-righteous insults)

I certainly didn't need detox. I would probably be the last person anyone would want to have around people undergoing withdrawal from booze or drugs. I would not have the requisite empathy for someone talking about bugs all over the ceiling. I have seen people over-medicated on pain-killers; it isn't pretty.

I was told that I might as well have an occasional beer or glass of wine just to dissolve the anxiety that goes with the territory. That is the exact opposite that is suggested to people with chemical dependency. One drink is safer than pills for anxiety. It's the third drink, the one that dissolves reason and conscience, that creates trouble.

One good thing about Asperger's is that we don't have problems with chemical dependency.

[Kinser79]

(03-14-2017, 12:50 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Detail: I was diagnosed in less than thirty minutes... for Asperger's.

That's not a real diagnosis.  I got one of those, too, from the psychiatrist at the VA ER room

I think they're passing out diagnoses like this so they can disarm vets to be quite honest.

[SomeGuy]

Quote:(Self-righteous insults)

I'm not even insulting you, I am pointing out that a 20 minute conversation probably isn't sufficient for a formal diagnosis (which if I am not mistaken is no longer possible with "Asperger's"), according to the two separate psychiatrists I spoke to about the subject.  And that you seem awfully judgmental of other people for someone seeking professional care.

Quote:I certainly didn't need detox.

Did you go to a detox clinic specifically?  Am confused.

Quote:I was told that I might as well have an occasional beer or glass of wine just to dissolve the anxiety that goes with the territory. That is the exact opposite that is suggested to people with chemical dependency. One drink is safer than pills for anxiety. It's the third drink, the one that dissolves reason and conscience, that creates trouble. 

I'm sorry, digging through my early memories on this board, didn't you use to complain of gout and how it prevented you from enjoying said glasses of wine?

Quote:One good thing about Asperger's is that we don't have problems with chemical dependency.

Not really true.  Pretty sure there is a fairly substantial co-morbidity of substance abuse and mental health disorders, including both autism-spectrum disorders and depression.  There is certainly evidence to suggest that people with autism spectrum disorders are more prone to addictive behaviors, be it drugs or videogames or posting on a message board.

Not saying you specifically suffer from chemical dependency, but the quoted statement is not really accurate.

[Kinser79]

(03-14-2017, 01:40 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 12:50 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (Self-righteous insults)

I certainly didn't need detox. I would probably be the last person anyone would want to have around people undergoing withdrawal from booze or drugs. I would not have the requisite empathy for someone talking about bugs all over the ceiling. I have seen people over-medicated on pain-killers; it isn't pretty.

I was told that I might as well have an occasional beer or glass of wine just to dissolve the anxiety that goes with the territory. That is the exact opposite that is suggested to people with chemical dependency. One drink is safer than pills for anxiety. It's the third drink, the one that dissolves reason and conscience,  that creates trouble.

One good thing about Asperger's is that we don't have problems with chemical dependency.

Have you ever considered cannabis?  The potential for abuse is low and strains can be developed for just about everything.  I have one for body pain--I smoke it in the morning so I don't hurt at work, and one for relaxing and getting the anxiety out.  I typically smoke it in the evening (when I need to).

If you plan on using edibles though...be careful.  It takes 45 minutes to an hour to kick in and people often take too much.  IF you go that route I suggest taking one dose, waiting 90 minutes and taking another dose if you need it.

You may or may not get high.  One of my co-workers is using high CBD cannabis to treat her MS, and she doesn't get high off that at all.  I consider it a pleasant side effect.

[pbrower2a]

(03-14-2017, 11:52 AM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 07:34 AM)Odin Wrote: I think Brower's issues come more from depression than from his Asperger's.

I don't think any of us armchair psychiatrists have any basis to judge whether PBrower is on the spectrum or not, versus being depressed.  I don't believe any of us have actually met the man in person; how one posts isn't always a good proxy.

I am the only one who can know. People will simply need to take my word or think me crazy or a liar.

Being diagnosed only at age 60 is a rarity. There are circumstances like extreme success that might allow one to get away with Asperger's and live what might seem a somewhat normal life. Economic success without a satisfying family life might be enough for many people. Being diagnosed much younger is the norm.

I got neither a satisfying economic life nor a satisfying family life. I know the usual causes for such: stupidity, cruelty, madness, laziness... there are people who merit trust in neither economic nor personal life. Eccentricity? I found that I was acting to seem normal. I was not a free spirit as I thought; I was a conformist.

I had extreme positives and extreme negatives.

I can imagine a very different life, one in which either (1) I am basically the same person without Asperger's -- which sounds like the hero of a romance novel, and isn't much of a story even if it is the book sold in bulk at Wal*Mart, or (2) I know about the syndrome and make suitable adjustments. Maybe I had taken a college-level course in psychology and saw enough scary signs of it to get the help that I needed.

So maybe I have some modicum of career success and am able to marry... and my wife and I choose to adopt kids. Like attracts like, after all; maybe she is also on the spectrum. Because inability to tolerate loud random noise is part of the reality of Asperger's we adopt five-year-old kids who look like neither of us. It is far easier to get children that way. We have a good sex life because we want each other to enjoy sex fully.

My bosses know that I have a problem... but they also know my positives. As with most people with handicaps I am very cautious. I am trustworthy with assets and human relations. I make good decisions when asked to make such decisions. ...Or I was directed into some creative activity, where I do well.

Nobody has a perfect life, but I have as good a life as I can have under the circumstances.