If The Russians Engineered a Trump Victory

[Odin]

Rep. Adam Schiff: There is now 'more than circumstantial evidence' of Trump-Russia collusion

This is a guy who as a prosecutor took down a corrupted FBI agent who passed secret documents to the USSR, he smells blood in the water.

[Odin]

Schiff took Devin Nunes to the woodshed.

[Odin]

FBI has information suggesting Trump aides ‘coordinated with Russia to damage Clinton campaign’

[pbrower2a]

(03-20-2017, 05:41 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 03:38 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 10:26 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 08:14 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Cold War Daily?

Yeah someone didn't get the memo that the USSR collapsed in 1991.

Russia has a dictatorial regime hostile to democracy anywhere.

What Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko dreamed of doing and all failed at -- installing a regime similarly undemocratic and obedient to the interests of the Kremlin in the USA... Putin has succeeded in doing.

Cool theory bro, but there's one problem.  I don't think the Russians want a democracy.  If they did they'd have one.  On top of that I don't think a country with a GDP less than Italy's is a problem for any of the EU countries unless we're talking like Slovakia or some god forsaken postage stamp country in Europe.

Also how did Putin install Trump?  Did he mind control most of the states going for him?  Did he use some sort of radio wave thingy?  Seriously PBR you're not usually into tin-foil hat theories.  You should leave that to the experts like Alphabet.

Only rarely are the political, commercial, and intellectual elites so rash as to support an agenda that looks like a conspiracy hatched in some tin-foil mind. Those elites like people to be complacent about the rapaciousness and snobbery of those elites. They generally prefer that people not be rifted along lines of ethnicity, religion, or class  and thus amenable to the demagogic appeals of someone like Donald Trump. Those elites, the Establishment, have generally wished that the common man see himself having a stake in the system -- for when the common man has no stake in the system he is vulnerable to extremist ideologies like fascism and communism or to religious panaceas that threaten the ways of life of the Establishment.

Yes, the economic order has been doing badly for the white working class. 3T individualism supports a culture more prone to risky and exploitative behavior. Big Business has been trying to eviscerate labor unions for years with the argument that if workers have no compulsion to pay union dues they might have a few more presents under the Christmas tree this year. Of course, weak or non-existent unions imply that workers have no collective bargaining or grievance process to prevent the race to the bottom in pay and working conditions.

Demagogues, supposed Men of the People, usually end up betraying the people who fall for their appeals. They create enemies instead of finding solutions. They often sell out to the elites who initially show disdain for them. Many have such crazy ideas of how to run things that they resort to dictatorial methods.

Donald Trump successfully played mass resentments and fears. He has solved nothing.

[pbrower2a]

KIEV, March 23 (Reuters) - Ukraine accused Russia of “state terrorism” after a former Russian lawmaker and key witness in a treason case against former leader Viktor Yanukovich was shot dead in broad daylight outside a hotel in central Kiev on Thursday.

Russia called the allegation “absurd.”

Former MP Denis Voronenkov was killed by an assailant who was armed with a pistol. The assailant was wounded by Voronenkov’s bodyguard and later died in hospital, police said.

Voronenkov fled to Ukraine last year and was helping the Ukrainian authorities build a treason case against Yanukovich, Ukraine’s pro-Kremlin former president.

Voronenkov had also spoken out against Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March 2014, although he voted for the move at the time.

President Petro Poroshenko said the killing “is an act of state terrorism on the part of Russia, which (Voronenkov) was forced to leave for political reasons.”

“Voronenkov was one of the main witnesses of Russian aggression against Ukraine and, in particular, the role of Yanukovich regarding the deployment of Russian troops to Ukraine.”

Relations between Kiev and Moscow are at an all-time low after Russia’s annexation of the Crimean peninsula in March 2014 and the subsequent outbreak of separatist fighting in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region that has killed more than 10,000 people.

Poroshenko said it was “no accident” that Voronenkov was shot on the same day as a warehouse storing tank ammunition was blown up at a Ukrainian military base.

Moscow denied any involvement Voronenkov’s murder .

“We believe that all the falsehoods that can already be heard about much-hyped Russian involvement are absurd,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was quoted as saying about the killing.

Voronenkov, 45, had been placed on a Russian federal wanted-list in connection with an alleged $5 million property fraud. He came to Ukraine with his wife, opera singer Maria Maksakova, who was also an MP.

Voronenkov was gunned down on his way to meet another former Russian parliamentarian, Ilya Ponomarev, who was the only member of the Duma who voted against the annexation of Crimea.

“There’s an obvious theory - I’ve said that Voronenkov wasn’t a crook, but a deadly dangerous investigator for Russian officials,” Ponomarev wrote on Facebook.

Television footage showed Ponomarev and Maksakova leaving the scene in a car together with Ukraine’s General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko.

Lutsenko called the shooting a “cynical murder.”

“He had provided investigators of the military prosecutor’s office with highly important (witness) testimony for the case. This was a typical show execution of a witness by the Kremlin,” Lutsenko said.

Yanukovich fled Ukraine during the 2013-2014 Maidan street protests, which he said were tantamount to a “coup” organized by armed nationalist radicals. The former leader has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin for saving his life by helping him escape from Ukraine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russ...t49529&

Run afoul of Boris Putin... and you might die.

[Odin]

Nicholas Kristof: There’s a Smell of Treason in the Air

[pbrower2a]

First, it is illegal for someone not a citizen to make campaign contributions to any candidate for President or any House or Senate race. At a Democratic campaign headquarters we had to tell non-citizens that they could not make contributions to political campaigns. I could not accept the cash and write a check, as that would be money-laundering.

This was for contributions of $10 or so from recent immigrants who saw themselves at risk from Donald Trump.

Second, we may have a question of 'foreign agent' status. People intent on promoting tourism to and culture of a foreign country find it relatively easy to register as foreign agents.

[Kinser79]

(03-24-2017, 05:47 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: First, it is illegal for someone not a citizen to make campaign contributions to any candidate for President or any House or Senate race. At a Democratic campaign headquarters we had to tell non-citizens that they could not make contributions to political campaigns. I could not accept the cash and write a check, as that would be money-laundering.

This was for contributions of $10 or so from recent immigrants who saw themselves at risk from Donald Trump.

Second, we may have a question of 'foreign agent' status. People intent on promoting tourism to and culture of a foreign country find  it relatively easy to register as foreign agents.

Yes well there is a way around that..if your surname is Clinton.  You take money from China and Saudi Arabia and whatnot and and put it through the Clinton Foundation, then the Clinton foundation cuts a check to the campaign.  Fund Slushing 101 stuff really.

[Kinser79]

(03-23-2017, 12:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 05:41 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 03:38 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 10:26 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 08:14 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Cold War Daily?

Yeah someone didn't get the memo that the USSR collapsed in 1991.

Russia has a dictatorial regime hostile to democracy anywhere.

What Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko dreamed of doing and all failed at -- installing a regime similarly undemocratic and obedient to the interests of the Kremlin in the USA... Putin has succeeded in doing.

Cool theory bro, but there's one problem.  I don't think the Russians want a democracy.  If they did they'd have one.  On top of that I don't think a country with a GDP less than Italy's is a problem for any of the EU countries unless we're talking like Slovakia or some god forsaken postage stamp country in Europe.

Also how did Putin install Trump?  Did he mind control most of the states going for him?  Did he use some sort of radio wave thingy?  Seriously PBR you're not usually into tin-foil hat theories.  You should leave that to the experts like Alphabet.

Only rarely are the political, commercial, and intellectual elites so rash as to support an agenda that looks like a conspiracy hatched in some tin-foil mind. Those elites like people to be complacent about the rapaciousness and snobbery of those elites. They generally prefer that people not be rifted along lines of ethnicity, religion, or class  and thus amenable to the demagogic appeals of someone like Donald Trump. Those elites, the Establishment, have generally wished that the common man see himself having a stake in the system -- for when the common man has no stake in the system he is vulnerable to extremist ideologies like fascism and  communism or to religious panaceas that threaten the ways of life of the Establishment.

Yes, the economic order has been doing badly for the white working class. 3T individualism supports a culture more prone to risky and exploitative behavior. Big Business has been trying to eviscerate labor unions for years with the argument that if workers have no compulsion to pay union dues they might have a few more presents under the Christmas tree this year. Of course, weak or non-existent unions imply that workers have no collective bargaining or grievance process to prevent the race to the bottom in pay and working conditions.

Demagogues, supposed Men of the People, usually end up betraying the people who fall for their appeals. They create enemies instead of finding solutions. They often sell out to the elites who initially show disdain for them. Many have such crazy ideas of how to run things that they resort to dictatorial methods.

Donald Trump successfully played mass resentments and fears. He has solved nothing.

Actually the elites thrive in a society that is divided on racial, class, and cultural lines.  It is called divide and rule and is a tactic as old as the hills.  That you do not see that this is exactly what the identity politics of the Left does says much about your political acumen PBR. 

Also it is a conspiracy but it is no theory.  It is being done in front of god and everyone.

[Snowflake]

Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

[pbrower2a]

(03-24-2017, 01:16 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Actually the elites thrive in a society that is divided on racial, class, and cultural lines.  It is called divide and rule and is a tactic as old as the hills.  That you do not see that this is exactly what the identity politics of the Left does says much about your political acumen PBR. 

Also it is a conspiracy but it is no theory.  It is being done in front of god and everyone.

Donald Trump is a prime example.

God? I thought you went from one godless ideology (Hoxha, with his "atheist state") to another (the Trump agenda).

I'll take Pope Francis over either -- any day. And I am not a Catholic, or even particularly religious.

[Eric the Green]

(03-24-2017, 02:59 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 01:16 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Actually the elites thrive in a society that is divided on racial, class, and cultural lines.  It is called divide and rule and is a tactic as old as the hills.  That you do not see that this is exactly what the identity politics of the Left does says much about your political acumen PBR. 

Also it is a conspiracy but it is no theory.  It is being done in front of god and everyone.

Donald Trump is a prime example.

God? I thought you went from one godless ideology (Hoxha, with his "atheist state") to another (the Trump agenda).

I'll take Pope Francis over either -- any day. And I am not a Catholic, or even particularly religious.

My goodness yes. If Trump is not the prime expert practitioner of elitist divide and conquer strategy, then there isn't one.

Yeah, kinser seems fond of theocracy now. Hate the genuine new age spirituality; love the tyrant god. And in general, "go home to Mommy" (or Daddy) (as Trump himself once shouted at his protesters)

https://youtu.be/-jw4gnoVSBM?t=8m30s

[Eric the Green]

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

[Snowflake]

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

[Eric the Green]

(03-24-2017, 03:52 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

I wouldn't expect any charges against Yates. The Trump folks? possibly.

Yes, although I have made many, many correct predictions here over the years, and in my career.
http://philosopherswheel.com/predictions.html

The skeptics still don't accept this fact. It is an interesting possible topic I might post; why do so many S&H readers oppose astrology, even though both are cycle theories, and the cycles jive?

But as I like to explain, yes I could not stomach predicting Drump to beat Hillary, but I used a couple of factors involving Jupiter and Saturn that didn't pan out. The main work I did over the last year was on my point system, and this system predicted Trump would win, since he had the higher score. As I perfected my research, I had three different sets of scores:


1st set: Trump 15-4, Hillary 9-8 (my system from 2012)
2nd set: Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9 (Springtime 2016 up to the election)
3rd set: Trump 9-4, Hillary 9-11 (revised after election)

The second most important indicator, the new moon before the election, predicted the party in power would win. That would have been Hillary-- except that on the 3 previous occasions where the electoral vote did not match the popular vote, the New Moon predicted the popular vote (seeming to indicate the real trend among the people). I was hoping this would not happen in 2016, although Nate Silver said it might. But it did.

So as it turns out, the two most important indicators I use were both correct, but I made the wrong prediction anyway.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Oh well, you opened the can of worms, Mr. Snowflake

[Snowflake]

(03-24-2017, 04:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:52 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

I wouldn't expect any charges against Yates.

Like I said, your bet is placed. 

EtG Wrote:The Trump folks? possibly.

Could be.  We'll see, I guess.

EtgG Wrote:Yes, although I have made many, many correct predictions here over the years, and in my career.
http://philosopherswheel.com/predictions.html

The skeptics still don't accept this fact. It is an interesting possible topic I might post; why do so many S&H readers oppose astrology, even though both are cycle theories, and the cycles jive?

Beats me.  I don't believe in Astrology, but I also don't not believe in Astrology.
I just don't know enough about it to really have an opinion one way or the other.
(I'll look at your website when I get a chance ... maybe ... if you're a good boy. )

EtG Wrote:But as I like to explain, yes I could not stomach predicting Drump to beat Hillary, but I used a couple of factors involving Jupiter and Saturn that didn't pan out. The main work I did over the last year was on my point system, and this system predicted Trump would win, since he had the higher score. As I perfected my research, I had three different sets of scores:


1st set: Trump 15-4, Hillary 9-8 (my system from 2012)
2nd set: Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9 (Springtime 2016 up to the election)
3rd set: Trump 9-4, Hillary 9-11 (revised after election)

The second most important indicator, the new moon before the election, predicted the party in power would win. That would have been Hillary-- except that on the 3 previous occasions where the electoral vote did not match the popular vote, the New Moon predicted the popular vote (seeming to indicate the real trend among the people). I was hoping this would not happen in 2016, although Nate Silver said it might. But it did.

So as it turns out, the two most important indicators I use were both correct, but I made the wrong prediction anyway.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Oh well, you opened the can of worms, Mr. Snowflake

Your problem may be that you let your personal biases cloud your assessment.
(and the fact that you make too many assumptions! )

Why not just do your analysis and let the cards fall where they may?
(Oh wait, that's Tarot. )

[Ragnarök_62]

(03-24-2017, 04:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:52 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

I wouldn't expect any charges against Yates. The Trump folks? possibly.

Yes, although I have made many, many correct predictions here over the years, and in my career.
http://philosopherswheel.com/predictions.html

The skeptics still don't accept this fact. It is an interesting possible topic I might post; why do so many S&H readers oppose astrology, even though both are cycle theories, and the cycles jive?

But as I like to explain, yes I could not stomach predicting Drump to beat Hillary, but I used a couple of factors involving Jupiter and Saturn that didn't pan out. The main work I did over the last year was on my point system, and this system predicted Trump would win, since he had the higher score. As I perfected my research, I had three different sets of scores:


1st set: Trump 15-4, Hillary 9-8 (my system from 2012)
2nd set: Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9 (Springtime 2016 up to the election)
3rd set: Trump 9-4, Hillary 9-11 (revised after election)

The second most important indicator, the new moon before the election, predicted the party in power would win. That would have been Hillary-- except that on the 3 previous occasions where the electoral vote did not match the popular vote, the New Moon predicted the popular vote (seeming to indicate the real trend among the people). I was hoping this would not happen in 2016, although Nate Silver said it might. But it did.

So as it turns out, the two most important indicators I use were both correct, but I made the wrong prediction anyway.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Oh well, you opened the can of worms, Mr. Snowflake

Uh, no silly.   Things like "Snowflake" can't open cans of worms.  Interacting with things as if they were people leads to disaster, like the war on thing[terror], thing[drugs],thing[snowflake].  

[Eric the Green]

(03-24-2017, 04:24 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 04:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:52 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

I wouldn't expect any charges against Yates.

Like I said, your bet is placed. 

EtG Wrote:The Trump folks? possibly.

Could be.  We'll see, I guess.

EtgG Wrote:Yes, although I have made many, many correct predictions here over the years, and in my career.
http://philosopherswheel.com/predictions.html

The skeptics still don't accept this fact. It is an interesting possible topic I might post; why do so many S&H readers oppose astrology, even though both are cycle theories, and the cycles jive?

Beats me.  I don't believe in Astrology, but I also don't not believe in Astrology.
I just don't know enough about it to really have an opinion one way or the other.
(I'll look at your website when I get a chance ... maybe ... if you're a good boy. )

EtG Wrote:But as I like to explain, yes I could not stomach predicting Drump to beat Hillary, but I used a couple of factors involving Jupiter and Saturn that didn't pan out. The main work I did over the last year was on my point system, and this system predicted Trump would win, since he had the higher score. As I perfected my research, I had three different sets of scores:


1st set: Trump 15-4, Hillary 9-8 (my system from 2012)
2nd set: Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9 (Springtime 2016 up to the election)
3rd set: Trump 9-4, Hillary 9-11 (revised after election)

The second most important indicator, the new moon before the election, predicted the party in power would win. That would have been Hillary-- except that on the 3 previous occasions where the electoral vote did not match the popular vote, the New Moon predicted the popular vote (seeming to indicate the real trend among the people). I was hoping this would not happen in 2016, although Nate Silver said it might. But it did.

So as it turns out, the two most important indicators I use were both correct, but I made the wrong prediction anyway.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Oh well, you opened the can of worms, Mr. Snowflake

Your problem may be that you let your personal biases cloud your assessment.
(and the fact that you make too many assumptions! )

Why not just do your analysis and let the cards fall where they may?
(Oh wait, that's Tarot. )

I did my best to not make assumptions and remove my bias, and the scores themselves are pretty objective. But yes, I'm sure my bias got in the way, regarding which indicators I gave preference to, and the fact that I actually factored a Hillary win into the candidate horoscope scores.

On the other hand, 2016 was a very close election, with the electoral college vote contradicting the popular vote, and the college decided by 77,774 votes in 3 states. Absent Comey's interference, and Russia's, it could have gone the other way.

That's no excuse for my mis-prediction, but it's still a fact that I predicted it would be close, and that Trump might win. It's all here.

I hope I am being a good boy
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

[Eric the Green]

(03-24-2017, 05:56 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 04:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:52 PM)Snowflake Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 03:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 02:25 PM)Snowflake Wrote: Did anybody here place any bets on who the treasonous rats are?
My $$$s on Sally Yates(with side bets on Brennan and Lynch).

Sally Yates, American Hero!

OK.  Your bet is placed!
You predicted a Sec. Clinton win, correct?

I wouldn't expect any charges against Yates. The Trump folks? possibly.

Yes, although I have made many, many correct predictions here over the years, and in my career.
http://philosopherswheel.com/predictions.html

The skeptics still don't accept this fact. It is an interesting possible topic I might post; why do so many S&H readers oppose astrology, even though both are cycle theories, and the cycles jive?

But as I like to explain, yes I could not stomach predicting Drump to beat Hillary, but I used a couple of factors involving Jupiter and Saturn that didn't pan out. The main work I did over the last year was on my point system, and this system predicted Trump would win, since he had the higher score. As I perfected my research, I had three different sets of scores:


1st set: Trump 15-4, Hillary 9-8 (my system from 2012)
2nd set: Trump 8-4, Hillary 12-9 (Springtime 2016 up to the election)
3rd set: Trump 9-4, Hillary 9-11 (revised after election)

The second most important indicator, the new moon before the election, predicted the party in power would win. That would have been Hillary-- except that on the 3 previous occasions where the electoral vote did not match the popular vote, the New Moon predicted the popular vote (seeming to indicate the real trend among the people). I was hoping this would not happen in 2016, although Nate Silver said it might. But it did.

So as it turns out, the two most important indicators I use were both correct, but I made the wrong prediction anyway.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Oh well, you opened the can of worms, Mr. Snowflake

Uh, no silly.   Things like "Snowflake" can't open cans of worms.  Interacting with things as if they were people leads to disaster, like the war on thing[terror], thing[drugs],thing[snowflake].  

Ah, but it was "Mr." Snowflake, with S capitalized, and the title Mr., so that means it was a person opening the can
People are not things! "value added!"

[Kinser79]

(03-24-2017, 02:59 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-24-2017, 01:16 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Actually the elites thrive in a society that is divided on racial, class, and cultural lines.  It is called divide and rule and is a tactic as old as the hills.  That you do not see that this is exactly what the identity politics of the Left does says much about your political acumen PBR. 

Also it is a conspiracy but it is no theory.  It is being done in front of god and everyone.

Donald Trump is a prime example.

God? I thought you went from one godless ideology (Hoxha, with his "atheist state") to another (the Trump agenda).

I'll take Pope Francis over either -- any day. And I am not a Catholic, or even particularly religious.

   I know you rarely leave your house and you probably only watch fake news sources like MSDNC and Clinton News Network so I'll give you a pass on not knowing about how Donald Trump is the most pro-minority and pro-queer President ever.  He's divided the country into only two camps, Authoritarian Cry-babies (Dim-ocrats and their hangers on) and Americans (everyone else).

I still have a great deal of respect for Enver.  And Stalin too.  The problem is their ideology is obsolete in an information age.

I'm not particularly fond of Pope Francis.  Seriously the man is a Communist in a Cassock.  He is also calling for the islamification of Europe.  Good thing he's celibate, he doesn't have to worry about the world his children will inherit.