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Of course it doesn't matter that African-Americans would be the vastly inordinate beneficiaries of Trump's immigration, trade, and tax proposals.
Because tone trumps - no pun intended - substance. At least to the naive.
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(06-28-2016, 09:24 AM)Anthony Wrote: Of course it doesn't matter that African-Americans would be the vastly inordinate beneficiaries of Trump's immigration, trade, and tax proposals.
Because tone trumps - no pun intended - substance. At least to the naive.
No, African Americans would be among the chief victims of those neo-liberal tax policies and xenophobic immigration policies.
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Neoliberal tax policies - like granting total tax forgiveness to every single earner of less than $25,000 a year, and every married earner of less than $50,000 a year?
And Trump's immigration policy may be xenophobic, but it would create acute labor shortages that would send wages, especially low-end wages, into the ionosphere.
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06-28-2016, 10:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016, 10:45 AM by Eric the Green.)
(06-28-2016, 10:38 AM)Anthony 58 Wrote: Neoliberal tax policies - like granting total tax forgiveness to every single earner of less than $25,000 a year, and every married earner of less than $50,000 a year?
Everyone who has looked at his policies says it means massive giveaways to the wealthy. Most people who earn under $25000 already don't pay income taxes. And does Trump exclude those people from social security and medicare taxes?
Quote:And Trump's immigration policy may be xenophobic, but it would create acute labor shortages that would send wages, especially low-end wages, into the ionosphere.
No it wouldn't, because the ones he wants to exclude are not taking high or even middle-paying jobs. And in any case in order to have any effect, his policies would have to mean actual deportations, not just stopping current illegal immigration, because there isn't any.
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(06-28-2016, 10:44 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (06-28-2016, 10:38 AM)Anthony Wrote: Neoliberal tax policies - like granting total tax forgiveness to every single earner of less than $25,000 a year, and every married earner of less than $50,000 a year?
Everyone who has looked at his policies says it means massive giveaways to the wealthy. Most people who earn under $25000 already don't pay income taxes. And does Trump exclude those people from social security and medicare taxes?
Really? I am going to want sources for this. Trump's own plans from his website indicate tax forgiveness to all those making less than 25K/year which is just over 2K per month or roughly anyone who make s $12.50/per hour gross. Hardly "wealthy" people unless Eric your argumentation is having a job makes one "wealthy".
Quote:Quote:And Trump's immigration policy may be xenophobic, but it would create acute labor shortages that would send wages, especially low-end wages, into the ionosphere.
No it wouldn't, because the ones he wants to exclude are not taking high or even middle-paying jobs. And in any case in order to have any effect, his policies would have to mean actual deportations, not just stopping current illegal immigration, because there isn't any.
I know you have problems with such concepts like 2 + 2 = 4. But it is simple supply and demand. If one curtails the flood of unskilled labor into the country then wages for the unskilled will stabilize and eventually start to rise because the supply has been restricted. Furthermore it would happen slowly enough to not necessitate automation for those unskilled jobs, something that raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars per hour or whatever other absurd number the left is using these days won't prevent.
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(06-28-2016, 10:54 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Trump's own plans from his website indicate tax forgiveness to all those making less than 25K/year which is just over 2K per month or roughly anyone who make s $12.50/per hour gross. Hardly "wealthy" people unless Eric your argumentation is having a job makes one "wealthy".
My point was that Trump would lower taxes on the wealthy; that's not about lowering taxes on those those making 25K.
Quote:I know you have problems with such concepts like 2 + 2 = 4. But it is simple supply and demand. If one curtails the flood of unskilled labor into the country then wages for the unskilled will stabilize and eventually start to rise because the supply has been restricted. Furthermore it would happen slowly enough to not necessitate automation for those unskilled jobs, something that raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars per hour or whatever other absurd number the left is using these days won't prevent.
Again, (ha ha) the point being that there IS no such flood of unskilled labor into the country now. Trump would have to deport those already here. Will he be able to do that?
I doubt automation can be prevented; it has to be adjusted for by repealing neo-liberal Reaganomics.
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06-28-2016, 11:54 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016, 12:19 PM by Cynic Hero '86.)
Millennials are tired of the human rights tyranny. We are tired of the ball in chain of globalism, free trade and human rights placed on them by boomers. Millies are breaking their shackles and embracing actual human development.
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Free trade and immigration hurt Millennials more than any other generation.
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06-28-2016, 05:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016, 05:49 PM by Eric the Green.)
(06-28-2016, 12:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkRuV0aCcI
That's such lousy "music" it makes me laugh! Just what the Nazi punks deserve.
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Eric The Green Wrote:That's such lousy "music" it makes me laugh! Just what the Nazi punks deserve.
Lousy music, eh. From Rags with  
---Value Added 
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06-29-2016, 07:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2016, 07:50 AM by Eric the Green.)
(06-28-2016, 12:02 PM)Anthony 58 Wrote: Free trade and immigration hurt Millennials more than any other generation.
I think free trade did. And the related phenomenon of outsourcing.
But immigration probably is a net plus. Immigrants benefit the economy, and they don't take that many higher-paying jobs. Automation and buyouts have many more cost jobs, and stagnant wages and inequality have cost millennials money.
And don't forget that millennials are often themselves immigrants or children thereof. They are a far more diverse generation. So, does immigration hurt immigrants? If so, they will go back home.
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(06-28-2016, 11:19 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (06-28-2016, 10:54 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Trump's own plans from his website indicate tax forgiveness to all those making less than 25K/year which is just over 2K per month or roughly anyone who make s $12.50/per hour gross. Hardly "wealthy" people unless Eric your argumentation is having a job makes one "wealthy".
My point was that Trump would lower taxes on the wealthy; that's not about lowering taxes on those those making 25K.
Quote:(insult redacted)
Again, (ha ha) the point being that there IS no such flood of unskilled labor into the country now. Trump would have to deport those already here. Will he be able to do that?
I doubt automation can be prevented; it has to be adjusted for by repealing neo-liberal Reaganomics.
Nobody wants to be unskilled labor. People are unskilled labor because they are stuck in the wrong place, they have minimal education, because they are new to the workforce, or because they have messed up their lives so that such is all that society will allow them to do. People try to get out of being unskilled labor. It's hard, unsatisfying, and often dangerous work. It has no obvious future except a lay-off.
It's worth remembering that automation that has earlier destroyed so many semi-skilled jobs has now gone to clerical and even professional jobs. So what do we do with millions of unemployed accountants, engineers, and attorneys?
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Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
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07-01-2016, 10:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2016, 10:21 AM by pbrower2a.)
(07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
People got jobs, but they got lower real wages on those jobs. Workers were barred from seeking employment elsewhere without the consent of the employer, and they could no longer strike for higher wages or better working conditions. They also could be compelled to do unpaid overtime, and anyone who balked at the demands of an employer could be shipped off to a labor camp where they got an attitude adjustment while toiling under harsher management and longer hours on even lower rations. The greater amount of work went into preparations for Nazi aggression, and as we all know militarization does not improve living standards. German plutocrats simply got more business and more profit from people working longer and harder under harsher management. That is a raw deal for workers.
Industrial workers in Nazi Germany effectively became serfs. It's telling that the Devil's Reich, even with its labor shortage, could not attract foreign workers until the Nazi occupiers ravaged occupied countries and compelled workers in those countries to choose between working as slaves in Germany or starving where they were.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(07-01-2016, 10:08 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
People got jobs, but they got lower real wages on those jobs. Workers were barred from seeking employment elsewhere without the consent of the employer, and they could no longer strike for higher wages or better working conditions. They also could be compelled to do unpaid overtime, and anyone who balked at the demands of an employer could be shipped off to a labor camp where they got an attitude adjustment while toiling under harsher management and longer hours on even lower rations. The greater amount of work went into preparations for Nazi aggression, and as we all know militarization does not improve living standards. German plutocrats simply got more business and more profit from people working longer and harder under harsher management. That is a raw deal for workers.
Industrial workers in Nazi Germany effectively became serfs. It's telling that the Devil's Reich, even with its labor shortage, could not attract foreign workers until the Nazi occupiers ravaged occupied countries and compelled workers in those countries to choose between working as slaves in Germany or starving where they were.
Thanks for keeping us informed about all the conditions under the Devil's Reich.
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(07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
Take this Nazi apologia shit to Stormfront or 4chan. 
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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(07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
Not my father's relatives, that's to be sure.
![[Image: n_holocaust_wiesel_130127.jpg]](http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Video/__NEW/n_holocaust_wiesel_130127.jpg)
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You know that I am not a Nazi - or a Communist; yet I concede that both were onto something with their Five Year Plans, etc.
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(07-01-2016, 02:55 PM)The Wonkette Wrote: (07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
Not my father's relatives, that's to be sure.
The big one, and by far the best reason to condemn Nazism. Actually there were other big ones, including Roma, Soviet POWs, political offenders, and the mentally and physically disabled. Another somewhat under-rated:
I don't know why Polish-Americans don't try to compare their relatives in Poland, the Polish intelligentsia, whom the Nazis murdered in great numbers upon the Nazi conquest of Poland to the Jews under Hitler. Dead is dead, and murder is murder, and I can't see anything different between the Nazis killing a Polish Christian for being a possible enemy of the Reich than killing a Jew. The Nazi massacre of Polish Christians is a Holocaust in its own right, even almost as systematic, and in a way I can connect the Holocaust against Poles to the Holocaust against the Jews. I must ask many people here: if a person like you were Polish and caught in Poland, would the Nazis have killed you in September or October 1939? I certainly would have been!
Had it not been for their extermination of the mind-working class in Poland, the Nazis might not have had free rein to use Poland as the main slaughterhouse for the Jews. The Nazis did not kill the Jews in place in such countries as Greece, the Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Norway, France, Hungary, or even Germany itself. They had to keep it secret from Germans and many occupied peoples. The Nazis did not trust the Poles to participate in the Holocaust.
Nazism was of course the purest moral pathology that ever arose in any nation, and the Nazi Party was the worst syndicate of organized crime that ever existed. It makes the Sicilian Mafia and the Russian Mafia look trivial by contrast.
Nazi Germany was still a worker's Hell. For the German working class, British, French, and American conquest was liberation.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(07-01-2016, 07:48 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: (07-01-2016, 02:55 PM)The Wonkette Wrote: (07-01-2016, 07:09 AM)Anthony Wrote: Quote:Oh come on, don't be naive. When a nation turns Nazi, the volk never benefit. The volk are dupes when a Nazi putsch happens.
Oh, really? Who benefited in Germany when full employment was achieved by 1936, and outright labor shortages by 1938?
Not my father's relatives, that's to be sure.
Based on our family tree, we know for sure there must have been cousins still in Europe when the 3rd Reich hit. We don't know their names but we know they were there. We know a few survived and one of my uncles eventually connected with a couple of descendants. But I'm pretty sure not all survived. This resurgent Nazi shit is making me experience feelings of rage I've never experienced before. Thoughts similar to ones the characters in Inglorious Basterds were portrayed to have. Since Jews now know how this current movie might end, one cannot expect the generally low level of blow back experienced during the 30s and early 40s. This time around, if Nazis start to appear viable, there will be war in the streets, mark these words.
Based on my family tree, I probably had seventh-or-so cousins who murdered your relatives. Those distant cousins can roast in Hell, and I don't want to know about them.
Another part has the European nation that most successfully protected its Jews from Hitler the only way that it could -- fighting Hitler from September 3, 1939. That, of course, is the UK.
I do genealogy, and I have found prominent figures of British politics, culture, and science as relatives. I do not look for German relatives.
A man born with my mother's not-so-common, but very German maiden name, was a major Hungarian war criminal of German origin. He is likely related, and I have no desire to find out how. I found Sir Winston Churchill, Bertrand Russell, and George Orwell as relatives and was delighted. I have no desire to find Hermann Goering, Joachim von Ribbentrop, or Wilhelm Keitel as a relative.
...I did find Frank and Jesse James, outlaws of the Old West, as relatives. I did not put them in my family tree.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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