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In New York state and Washington DC there are active movements underway to decriminalize sex work, the more politically correct term for prostitution. A similar movement in San Francisco proved unsuccessful. As these issues are the realm of the individual states and localities and not the federal government, it is amazing that currently the act is illegal in 49 states and legal in only parts of the 50th(Nevada).
Perhaps ironically discussions of this increased after the FOSTA/SESTA acts were passed last year. Sadly many honest service providers ended up being lumped together with the sick human traffickers, and a result has been a bona fide witch hunt. And because of its illegality providers tend to be scared to report abuse and mistreatment. This could be rectified through decriminalization efforts. Ironically some of the biggest opponents of decrim are service providers themselves because then they would have to start paying taxes on it.
If it were legal in more of the nation, would sex work become more affordable to the masses? Currently the average rate for a provider is between $300 and $500 per hour in most places. Your thoughts here.
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If they failed even in the most liberal city of America, I don't see them succeeding anywhere else. Good.
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(06-13-2019, 02:03 AM)taramarie Wrote: (06-12-2019, 09:10 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: If they failed even in the most liberal city of America, I don't see them succeeding anywhere else. Good.
Wrong. It is legal in New Zealand and has been since 2003.
America is not New Zealand. There is a historical streak of puritanism in American culture that New Zealand lacks.
As to the question at hand I would prefer as Nordic model here. Decriminalizing prostitution and seeking to assist those in sex work to get out (with few exceptions people are driven to that lifestyle due to desperation) while continuing to prosecute pimps and johns.
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(06-14-2019, 04:49 PM)taramarie Wrote: (06-14-2019, 12:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (06-13-2019, 02:03 AM)taramarie Wrote: (06-12-2019, 09:10 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: If they failed even in the most liberal city of America, I don't see them succeeding anywhere else. Good.
Wrong. It is legal in New Zealand and has been since 2003.
America is not New Zealand. There is a historical streak of puritanism in American culture that New Zealand lacks.
As to the question at hand I would prefer as Nordic model here. Decriminalizing prostitution and seeking to assist those in sex work to get out (with few exceptions people are driven to that lifestyle due to desperation) while continuing to prosecute pimps and johns.
Points highlighted for a reason. Likewise America isn't "everywhere else." There are other countries. Nordic model does sound perfect.
I might be trying to mind read here but I think Hintergrund's point is that if "X liberal-ish policy failed in San Francisco then it will fail elsewhere" was America specific.
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Here is a story which just appeared where two of the top candidates for the White House discuss the topic.
https://nypost.com/2019/06/20/bernie-san...stitution/
I would be in favor of it if it is regulated properly and not be able to flourish just on every street corner. If I had, say, 100 bucks to spare and wanted to pay someone to have sex, is it really any of the government's business?
But with higher end escorts, it is really all about companionship, with sex being only a very small part if indeed it does occur. And let's face it: it's prohibition hasn't been any more successful than it was with liquor a generation ago.
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(06-12-2019, 09:10 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: If they failed even in the most liberal city of America, I don't see them succeeding anywhere else. Good.
But you can't say today that San Francisco is the most liberal city. Back in the Hippie days, yes. But now it is home to all of these high tech startups (Uber et al), and the current Lords of Tech, many of whom are based in and around SF, can be quite accurately described as the new robber barons. Their goal is to eliminate not only human labor, but also human contact to the greatest extent possible.
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The Nordic model destroys organised prostitution, i.e. brothels, but some of it will exist as long as money is used. Some women want to be prostitutes, because they are psychopathic or just too lazy for normal work. The punter can always claim he hooked up with a gal, and then he gave her some money as a charity.
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(06-28-2019, 03:58 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: The Nordic model destroys organised prostitution, i.e. brothels, but some of it will exist as long as money is used. Some women want to be prostitutes, because they are psychopathic or just too lazy for normal work. The punter can always claim he hooked up with a gal, and then he gave her some money as a charity.
Many houses of prostitution are disguised as massage parlors. Some will quote a certain fee for the service, but that is just to get in the door. The customer is then given all the "upselling" lines for various "extras". But I believe it should be up to the individual and not the government to regulate. If we refuse to pay then they would eventually disappear. For upscale ladies who use the term "escorts", it is more of a companionship agreement of which sex is only a small portion of it if indeed it does occur. I would like to see places such as brothels that do good screening be at the very least decriminalized. But not to have it flourish all over the streets. Just keep in mind that its prohibition hasn't worked any more than it did a century ago with liquor.
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The laws criminalizing prostitution may do more harm than prostitution itself is said to do.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(06-14-2019, 06:08 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (06-14-2019, 04:49 PM)taramarie Wrote: (06-14-2019, 12:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (06-13-2019, 02:03 AM)taramarie Wrote: (06-12-2019, 09:10 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: If they failed even in the most liberal city of America, I don't see them succeeding anywhere else. Good.
Wrong. It is legal in New Zealand and has been since 2003.
America is not New Zealand. There is a historical streak of puritanism in American culture that New Zealand lacks.
As to the question at hand I would prefer as Nordic model here. Decriminalizing prostitution and seeking to assist those in sex work to get out (with few exceptions people are driven to that lifestyle due to desperation) while continuing to prosecute pimps and johns.
Points highlighted for a reason. Likewise America isn't "everywhere else." There are other countries. Nordic model does sound perfect.
I might be trying to mind read here but I think Hintergrund's point is that if "X liberal-ish policy failed in San Francisco then it will fail elsewhere" was America specific.
Precisely.
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