COVID-19 is the climax to this 4T

[Warren Dew]

Isoko, you do realize that Prophet is an alterrnative term for Idealist in terms of generations, right?  And there are people who are better than most at predicting the future, Strauss & Howe among them.  Xenakis has refined the theory in useful ways and made some reasonable predictions with the refinements.  I imagine this site attracts people who are from an Idealist generation and fancy themselves good prognosticators.

[endlessvegetables]

For what little it's worth, 2008 was already firmly Crisis-shaped for me and mine; a lot of people lost their jobs around then.

[Eric the Green]

(04-24-2020, 09:00 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Isoko, you do realize that Prophet is an alterrnative term for Idealist in terms of generations, right?  And there are people who are better than most at predicting the future, Strauss & Howe among them.  Xenakis has refined the theory in useful ways and made some reasonable predictions with the refinements.  I imagine this site attracts people who are from an Idealist generation and fancy themselves good prognosticators.

Well said.

[pbrower2a]

Did anyone foresee a respiratory disease as a likely focus of a Crisis? A market crash? We have had one, and we may be in another, especially if you believe as I do that the recent improvement in stock valuations is a suckers' rally. Unemployment has skyrocketed.

To the extent that Americans comply with difficult-to-enforce stay-at-home orders, Americans are in a 4T mood. People are doing their jobs. Some politicians (regrettably not including the most important one in America) are doing their jobs. Big Business and Small Business alike are doing their jobs. People losing their jobs seem not to be protesting sudden mass unemployment. Americans seem to be acting upon the assumption that however difficult things are, meeting COVID-19 is worth economic distress.

Lethal respiratory diseases just do not kill in large numbers in advanced industrial societies except to finish off people dying of other causes such as heart failure, cancer, advanced diabetes, or the like. But that is what we have. We are finding ways to deal with it. The cooler heads in politics -- the smarter and more pragmatic -- seem to be gaining against those who have operated on the assumption that people are nothing more than Homo oeconomicus, a vile creature under the control of his appetites, fear, greed, and snobbishness. Americans seem to not be looking for scapegoats.

So we didn't get World War III, a military coup, or nukes being tossed around. Some Americans have disgraced themselves, and history will judge them harshly. So, I hope, will the electorate.

[Warren Dew]

(04-25-2020, 02:06 AM)taramarie Wrote: He is of the prophet generations, and he makes predictions from statistics i imagine, and makes a living from it.

Eric makes predictions from astrology.  In fact, he made a correct prediction about Trump winning the Presidency from astrology, then couldn't bring himself to believe his own prediction.  Those of us who don't believe in astrology will attribute this to coincidence, but I can see how those predisposed to believe in astrology would have their faith redoubled after that experience.

I didn't know he made a living from it, but I suppose making a living from making astrological predictions is easier than trying to make a living from statistical predictions.

[Isoko]

I wasn't actually putting words in his mouth, taramarie. He said he was a prophet and compared himself to the old Jewish prophets. I then proceeded to take the piss until I realised that he was being deadly serious about this. Which to me is very scary behaviour.

You know, I actually have done astrological research before now. Want to know the truth? A few things Eric has gotten right but a lot of stuff is just plain wrong because no one, not even a well trained astrologer, can you tell what life is going to be like 200 years in the future. You can get a reading and you can speculate but that is the best you can do. 

Let's be honest here, even in the Bible (and I'm not trying to get all religious here) Jesus said only God knew the future and not Him. So my point is, if Jesus doesn't know, how does Eric? 

Also I'm going to confidently say that despite my own knowledge, I've no idea what the future holds. No one does. I'm no prophet. I cannot tell you what people are going to be doing in the year 2050. I can speculate with readings but that is all I can do.

My point is, I personally think it is morally wrong to say your a prophet. And yes, I am aware of the arch type but that doesn't mean these people are literal prophets just because of what year they were born. 

When it comes to Eric, if he wants to continue to go down this road, I'd recommend that he goes to http://www.ecosophia.com and read John Michael Greer's work on astrology because Greer is hitting the same marks as me. Eric can even comment on the website and share his thoughts. 

And yes, not even Greer, who is very good at astrology, claims to be a prophet.

[Isoko]

He said and I quote:

I am a prophet and I make warnings like the old Jewish ones.

Now in my eyes and many others, that would be comparing yourself to being a prophet in the Bible.

As for being freaked out, I actually wasn't. It's just when he announced it last night, I actually burst out into laughter then started to realise this guy is serious.

Look, I've nothing against Eric personally. I am sure he is a nice man sat somewhere in America. But when you go around declaring yourself a prophet in order to vindicate your points in a debate, that is worthy of criticism. 

It's basically the equivalent of me saying, "ok guys, I practiced astrology and I can tell you everything that is going to happen. Therefore only I'm right and nobody else." That doesn't make me a prophet. It makes me look like an idiot.

If you start doing that, you deserve to be laughed at and criticised. I hope that Eric learns something from this episode and that is eventually someone is going to criticise your behaviour if you behave like a clown.

[Eric the Green]

(04-25-2020, 12:34 PM)Isoko Wrote: He said and I quote:....

Sorry, I don't think you did what I asked.
Not only that you didn't pay attention to what Warren said.
So I will put you on ignore.
Doesn't seem to work yet though....

[Eric the Green]

(04-25-2020, 09:48 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(04-25-2020, 02:06 AM)taramarie Wrote: He is of the prophet generations, and he makes predictions from statistics i imagine, and makes a living from it.

Eric makes predictions from astrology.  In fact, he made a correct prediction about Trump winning the Presidency from astrology, then couldn't bring himself to believe his own prediction.  Those of us who don't believe in astrology will attribute this to coincidence, but I can see how those predisposed to believe in astrology would have their faith redoubled after that experience.

I didn't know he made a living from it, but I suppose making a living from making astrological predictions is easier than trying to make a living from statistical predictions.

Right; not much of a living though. Just a little.

[Eric the Green]

I'm not going to argue with Isoko anymore. I don't interact with people who think they can psychologically advise or rebuke me in a public forum, or who harass me. This forum is about the subject matter, not the participants.

[Isoko]

Well, that does it folks. The mighty prophet cannot accept valid criticism and has now put me on ignore. I think that this closes the chapter and proves Eric cannot adequately defend himself and has had to run away. My point has been made.

[Warren Dew]

(04-25-2020, 12:34 PM)Isoko Wrote: Now in my eyes and many others, that would be comparing yourself to being a prophet in the Bible.

This may look different to atheists than to Christians.  For some reason I think Eric is atheist, though I'm not sure why I think that.

For us atheists, biblical prophets made hit and miss predictions, just like modern day prognosticators.

[David Horn]

(04-25-2020, 04:51 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(04-25-2020, 12:34 PM)Isoko Wrote: Now in my eyes and many others, that would be comparing yourself to being a prophet in the Bible.

This may look different to atheists than to Christians.  For some reason I think Eric is atheist, though I'm not sure why I think that.

For us atheists, biblical prophets made hit and miss predictions, just like modern day prognosticators.

Eric is neither theist nor atheist.  He's spiritual, but not religious.

[Warren Dew]

Being atheist doesn't preclude being spiritual.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-26-2020, 10:12 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-25-2020, 04:51 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(04-25-2020, 12:34 PM)Isoko Wrote: Now in my eyes and many others, that would be comparing yourself to being a prophet in the Bible.

This may look different to atheists than to Christians.  For some reason I think Eric is atheist, though I'm not sure why I think that.

For us atheists, biblical prophets made hit and miss predictions, just like modern day prognosticators.

Eric is neither theist nor atheist.  He's spiritual, but not religious.

Eric has claimed to be a spiritual person but often failed to prove it to me many times.

[Camz]

It's a little embarrassing seeing others disrespectfully criticize each other so much on the site. I just came here to see adults discuss current news and H&S's works.

[Warren Dew]

(04-26-2020, 03:47 PM)Camz Wrote: It's a little embarrassing seeing others disrespectfully criticize each other so much on the site. I just came here to see adults discuss current news and H&S's works.

Now you know how actual adults interact.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-26-2020, 04:09 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(04-26-2020, 03:47 PM)Camz Wrote: It's a little embarrassing seeing others disrespectfully criticize each other so much on the site. I just came here to see adults discuss current news and H&S's works.

You wont find many adults here. Too many bitter old people bickering at each other. Some here left and joined a 4T group on fb which is a secret group. Hidden there. Some here are in the group. Eric being one of them last time i saw. If you want a 4T group that is like that, go there. They discuss what you wish to talk about.

Actually, Eric and I are two who were in the secret FB group, but were banned. One moderator was into a hate of boomers. Another moderator was into obscenity. When I dared to suggest that these moderators should look in the mirror, I got banned. Erik had been booted just before.

It is kind of like McCarthty era over there. They have a certain ideology, and if you don't agree with it they proactively get rid of you.

Very adult of them...

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-06-2020, 07:25 AM)Snowflake1996 Wrote: What about something like this?

1929-1947 4T
1948-1965 1T
1966-1984 2T
1985-2001 3T
2002-2021? 4T

Boomers 1943-1960
Xers 1961-1979
Millennials 1980-1996
Zoomers 1997-2016?
New Prophets-2017-onwards (too young to remember the Great Quarantine that both Zoomers and Millennials will talk about for decades)

Catalyst: 9/11 followed by the war on terror, Katrina, housing market pop, and financial crisis 
Regeneracy: Obama’s administration. The passage of the affordable care act, the stimulus, Dodd-Frank, don’t ask don’t tell repeal, Osama’s death, etc. 
-Note: Obama is the gray champion (He was born closer to the end of the last 4T than FDR or Lincoln were. He is old enough to fulfill this role). 
Crisis: Trump/Covid19 (a direct threat to the regeneracy that millennials supported with their electoral support behind Obama). Perhaps this is a leading indicator that Biden will cement Obama’s reforms if he wins in November? 

It seems like we’re way overdue for the regeneracy phase.

I see September 11th as being a little early. It was a classic military catalyst uniting the country, but it happened a bit before the crisis generation configuration was ripe, the guy in charge was conservative, while the crisis is generally about the acceptance and changeover to the progressive values, and the attempt to solve the problem didn’t work. The new ideals failed and we withdrew (if slowly) from the Middle East.

In a lot of way it was a crisis, but in other ways if fell way short of a triumph of values.

Obama failed to punish Wall Street as expected, and after passing a health care bill failed to a hostile congressional majority to do anything with the agenda. While he was a solid president, he was not a Grey Champion convincing his people to adapt the new values. Everything he tried to do was undone by his successor.

I see Trump as being the analog of Buchanan and Hoover, a bad president as the new value historians remember him and a proof that the old ideals are severely dated.

A regeneracy marks when a new administration fully implements the progressive agenda. Obama didn’t do it, or it was rejected. The governors are starting to do it, but the federal government is still captive to Trump and the small government ideal of the unraveling. Yes, the Coronavirus is a classic S&H Trigger. You cannot reject that science and ignore it. We will see if Biden can bring the rest of the blue agenda in should he get elected. The economy may be struggling, and he might choose to leave much not done. In which case, there might be quite an awakening when it comes.

[Eric the Green]

That's all true, but are you sure that a regeneracy is only "when a new administration fully implements the progressive agenda?" Can't it be when a movement emerges among the people that will lead toward this?