The cancer infecting the political Left

[pbrower2a]

(08-07-2020, 03:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:50 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.

How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

There are interests who want to see labor unions gutted, and who want to abandon Medicare and Social Security to the private sector. There are people who want to privatize the postal service and the highways to monopolistic gougers.  Such people want extreme disparities of economic results even if such kills people through hunger and medical disasters. 

People like that are the best friends that revolutionary socialists of the Marxist-Leninist type have... the sorts of people who make a proletarian revolution inevitable at the time of a military debacle or natural disaster. 

Wanton cruelty is the basis of great evil.

Well, if you elect a Zombie, that's what's going to happen to the portion of the country that's still run by Democrats eventually. I mean, how are you going to be able to afford all of that stuff after loosing the bulk of the US economy? I suppose, you could sacrifice a bunch of rights and financially hook up with China or inadvertently support something stupid like that taking place today.

Joe Biden had better nominate someone good as VP and had better be ready to resign if he finds himself no longer up to the job. Note well that Donald Trump is completely unfit for the job, as he is paradoxically both too immature and too senile to do it at the same time.  We got away with Reagan because he had a circle of generally-reliable people around him including his VP and such people as Caspar Weinberger and George Shultz, and as Reagan became increasingly debilitated he made the transition to acting largely in ceremonial roles. Donald Trump might have been OK had he gone as Reagan did, but Trump has to be the Big Boss in everything even if he is utterly incompetent. 

My actuarial assessment suggests that Biden is far from ideal -- but Trump is an extreme, pathological narcissist devoid of any moral virtue. At any age, anyone in any role as a leader or supervisor who is a pathological narcissist is a disaster waiting to happen. This man contradicts the experts who truly know about what they are talking. A President does not have to know everything, but he had certainly better know what questions to ask. Obama got away with his limited knowledge (OK, he is not a trained engineer, he is not schooled in the military subjects of operations, and he is not a scientist of any kind)... but he typically knew whom to trust. Trump considers himself the ultimate arbiter of truth, and that is where he gets into a disaster.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 03:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:34 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.

Yes.  During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man.  The Republicans leaned towards the elites.  But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites.  Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas.  This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.

Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.

Wise not to put your faith, but you should put it in neither party.  During the unraveling, money seemed to over ride votes.  Both parties were parties of the elites.

May shift with the need to get rid of the Trump Republicans,   We might be patriotic and loyal to the Constitution and solving the crisis problems for a while.  But I can't blame you for being dubious.  It is just confusing that you are not being dubious about the elite racist party even if you don't push the two influences that so taint the Republicans.

As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch at this point.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Which is why the Democrats support Black Lives Matter, an organization that believes black lives matter? If that is caring about race, I care about race too. I know you have a wierd idea about reverse racism, but it is so absurd that like much stuff out of extremist partisans it can be pretty much ignored.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 04:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Which is why the Democrats support Black Lives Matter, an organization that believes black lives matter?  If that is caring about race, I care about race too.  I know you have a wierd idea about reverse racism, but it is so absurd that like much stuff out of extremist partisans it can be pretty much ignored.

I think it's pretty clear that Black Lives Matter doesn't care as much about the lives of black people as its name suggests. I don't care if you keep clinging to it and continue praising it and supporting it and not questioning its political motives and so forth for your own good or the good of the party so to speak.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-07-2020, 05:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Which is why the Democrats support Black Lives Matter, an organization that believes black lives matter?  If that is caring about race, I care about race too.  I know you have a wierd idea about reverse racism, but it is so absurd that like much stuff out of extremist partisans it can be pretty much ignored.

I think it's pretty clear that Black Lives Matter doesn't care as much about the lives of black people as its name suggests. I don't care if you keep clinging to it and continue praising it and supporting it and not questioning its political  motives and so forth.

Is there a need to question 400 years of slavery, murder and oppression?

Sure, among the protestors are others with other motivations, including the Boogaloos Bois who want like Trump to instigate violence and the looters who are taking the opposition for personal gain. These both should have to face opposition from the law.

But your positions are one of a single extremist that don't even seem to be shared among the reds. How can I say to what extremes you will go before you check your crazy beliefs against reality? It seems pretty unlikely from here. You are wedded to your beliefs no matter how hard reality hits you on the head with a sledgehammer.

[Eric the Green]

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:34 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.

Yes.  During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man.  The Republicans leaned towards the elites.  But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites.  Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas.  This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.

Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.

Wise not to put your faith, but you should put it in neither party.  During the unraveling, money seemed to over ride votes.  Both parties were parties of the elites.

May shift with the need to get rid of the Trump Republicans,   We might be patriotic and loyal to the Constitution and solving the crisis problems for a while.  But I can't blame you for being dubious.  It is just confusing that you are not being dubious about the elite racist party even if you don't push the two influences that so taint the Republicans.

As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Democrats do propose more rights for unions, and more restrictions on business. But this has weakened in two places; first, the power of the Republican Party to block them, since Democrats have not had control of the state for more than a year or two for the last 40 years, and second, the persuasive power of the Republican Reaganomics meme over the Democrats, causing them to be "new" Democrats that compromise and back down too often to the Republican policies. But Democrats are the ones who put justices on the supreme court who opposed the domination of big money over our politics, while Republicans put justices on who support the power of big money. Democrats propose reform; Republicans block and oppose it. So there's no question about which party MIGHT be willing and able to help the working man and trim the power of big business, and which one NEVER will.

But it is too bad that Democrats cave in to the fear of "socialism" to the extent that they prefer establishment new Democrats like Biden over "socialists" like Sanders. It's mainly a question of fear of the other party and fear of demons like Trump. They cave in because they don't think a "democratic socialist" can win the election against this greater evil.

It would seem logical that we should be over the race issue by now, but we're not. Many of your own statements Classic Xer prove that we are not. Discrimination, racial profiling, police brutality and so on are aimed at blacks more than at whites. The wealth gap remains huge, even though there are plenty of talented African Americans who make it well and get rich. The closet racists like you Classic Xer would suggest that blacks face no racial barriers, meaning that it must be their inherent inferiority that accounts for these enormous gaps. Democrats and progressives therefore are "racists" according to you for pointing out the fact that non-white races still face barriers in our society. You think we should just relax since everyone is already given an equal chance, that there is no police brutality or racial profiling, and that the make-up of the prison population and the wealth and income gaps are entirely the fault of the black race themselves, since we are all treated equally already, and since you claim to treat them equally yourself.

The Black Lives Matter movement exists because it needs to, because young unarmed innocent black people are targeted and then murdered by police for being "suspicious" and because "they might have a gun". When this no longer happens any more than it happens to others, then the movement will go away. Police unions and restrictions against liability prevent this from happening, and training that emphasizes producing killers gets in the way. Defunding of social and mental health care workers, and giving these jobs to the police as a result of Reaganomics, hatred of welfare and the proliferation of guns, keeps the police trigger happy and the community without the real help they need. Police reform will benefit all races, because we are all potential victims of trigger happy killer cops who do not respect our rights and who are forced to do work they are not qualified for, and who need to be armed to the teeth and ready to shoot against well-armed criminals and gangs as a result of the lack of gun control directly perpetrated by Republicans. And that's not to mention Nixon's war in drugs.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 06:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 01:34 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Yes.  During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man.  The Republicans leaned towards the elites.  But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites.  Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas.  This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.

Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.

Wise not to put your faith, but you should put it in neither party.  During the unraveling, money seemed to over ride votes.  Both parties were parties of the elites.

May shift with the need to get rid of the Trump Republicans,   We might be patriotic and loyal to the Constitution and solving the crisis problems for a while.  But I can't blame you for being dubious.  It is just confusing that you are not being dubious about the elite racist party even if you don't push the two influences that so taint the Republicans.

As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Democrats do propose more rights for unions, and more restrictions on business. But this has weakened in two places; first, the power of the Republican Party to block them, since Democrats have not had control of the state for more than a year or two for the last 40 years, and second, the persuasive power of the Republican Reaganomics meme over the Democrats, causing them to be "new" Democrats that compromise and back down too often to the Republican policies. But Democrats are the ones who put justices on the supreme court who opposed the domination of big money over our politics, while Republicans put justices on who support the power of big money. Democrats propose reform; Republicans block and oppose it. So there's no question about which party MIGHT be willing and able to help the working man and trim the power of big business, and which one NEVER will.

But it is too bad that Democrats cave in to the fear of "socialism" to the extent that they prefer establishment new Democrats like Biden over "socialists" like Sanders. It's mainly a question of fear of the other party and fear of demons like Trump. They cave in because they don't think a "democratic socialist" can win the election against this greater evil.

It would seem logical that we should be over the race issue by now, but we're not. Many of your own statements Classic Xer prove that we are not. Discrimination, racial profiling, police brutality and so on are aimed at blacks more than at whites. The wealth gap remains huge, even though there are plenty of talented African Americans who make it well and get rich. The closet racists like you Classic Xer would suggest that blacks face no racial barriers, meaning that it must be their inherent inferiority that accounts for these enormous gaps. Democrats and progressives therefore are "racists" according to you for pointing out the fact that non-white races still face barriers in our society. You think we should just relax since everyone is already given an equal chance, that there is no police brutality or racial profiling, and that the make-up of the prison population and the wealth and income gaps are entirely the fault of the black race themselves, since we are all treated equally already, and since you claim to treat them equally yourself.

The Black Lives Matter movement exists because it needs to, because young unarmed innocent black people are targeted and then murdered by police for being "suspicious" and because "they might have a gun". When this no longer happens any more than it happens to others, then the movement will go away. Police unions and restrictions against liability prevent this from happening, and training that emphasizes producing killers gets in the way. Defunding of social and mental health care workers, and giving these jobs to the police as a result of Reaganomics, hatred of welfare and the proliferation of guns, keeps the police trigger happy and the community without the real help they need. Police reform will benefit all races, because we are all potential victims of trigger happy killer cops who do not respect our rights and who are forced to do work they are not qualified for, and who need to be armed to the teeth and ready to shoot against well-armed criminals and gangs as a result of the lack of gun control directly perpetrated by Republicans. And that's not to mention Nixon's war in drugs.

Well, you're white and I'm white and whatever we say to each other directly or say about each other personally and so forth has nothing to do with differences between race or people associated with the black race or any other race at that point. You want to use them and they're cool with it that's fine with me at this point. I've already told you that I don't give a shit about you, what you do about issues related to your cops or what you support that pertains to the lives of your cops or lively hood of your cops or whether or not you have enough cops left to call upon or rely upon down the road during times of need either at this point. Whatever you do, you can pretty much expect us to do the opposite these days.

[Ragnarök_62]

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 05:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 05:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Which is why the Democrats support Black Lives Matter, an organization that believes black lives matter?  If that is caring about race, I care about race too.  I know you have a wierd idea about reverse racism, but it is so absurd that like much stuff out of extremist partisans it can be pretty much ignored.

I think it's pretty clear that Black Lives Matter doesn't care as much about the lives of black people as its name suggests. I don't care if you keep clinging to it and continue praising it and supporting it and not questioning its political  motives and so forth.

Is there a need to question 400 years of slavery, murder and oppression?

Sure, among the protestors are others with other motivations, including the Boogaloos Bois who want like Trump to instigate violence and the looters who are taking the opposition for personal gain.  These both should have to face opposition from the law.

But your positions are one of a single extremist that don't even seem to be shared among the reds.  How can I say to what extremes you will go before you check your crazy beliefs against reality?  It seems pretty unlikely from here.  You are wedded to your beliefs no matter how hard reality hits you on the head with a sledgehammer.

I'm not questioning it, denying it or trying to erase it or trying to capitalize off it or make liberal amends by paying them off or trying to win elections by continuing to use it either. Can you say the same these days? I think its pretty clear that I'm not deeply into minority based politics as you and your WHITE liberal pals these days. Yep. I'm pretty much wedded to my beliefs and I don't take your beliefs into account or place them above my own at this point. I can pretty much guarantee that whatever reality you hit us with, we'll  respond by hitting you with a reality that's much worse.

[Classic-Xer]

Ragnarök_62

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used to bring a timely end to the Soviet Union. Dude, our government has spent 80 years wasting American money on all kinds of shit. I've always been a patriotic American  who could give two shits less about the Democratic party and the Liberal elites who largely fund and control it these days. We have all kinds of big government related rackets for a bunch of rich idiots to get richer with these days. I mean, look at Biden. Would Biden be a multimillionaire today if he wasn't a life long Democratic politician?

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not questioning it, denying it or trying to erase it or trying to capitalize off it or make liberal amends by paying them off or trying to win elections by continuing to use it either. Can you say the same these days?

I quoted Thoreau's Civil Disobedience lately. One is not required to fix every wrong one encounters, but it is required not to associate with continuing that wrong. Seems about right. I feel I have done both.

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I think its pretty clear that I'm not deeply into minority based politics as you and your WHITE liberal pals these days. Yep. I'm pretty much wedded to my beliefs and I don't take your beliefs into account or place them above my own at this point. I can pretty much guarantee that whatever reality you hit us with, we'll  respond by hitting  you with a reality that's much worse.

It is closer to your wishing slavery, oppression and murder to continue, as will your endless supply of silly empty threats. You have made no attempt to shift your extreme partisan belief to match reality. I am expecting no different.

[pbrower2a]

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 05:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 05:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Which is why the Democrats support Black Lives Matter, an organization that believes black lives matter?  If that is caring about race, I care about race too.  I know you have a wierd idea about reverse racism, but it is so absurd that like much stuff out of extremist partisans it can be pretty much ignored.

I think it's pretty clear that Black Lives Matter doesn't care as much about the lives of black people as its name suggests. I don't care if you keep clinging to it and continue praising it and supporting it and not questioning its political  motives and so forth.

Is there a need to question 400 years of slavery, murder and oppression?

Sure, among the protestors are others with other motivations, including the Boogaloos Bois who want like Trump to instigate violence and the looters who are taking the opposition for personal gain.  These both should have to face opposition from the law.

But your positions are one of a single extremist that don't even seem to be shared among the reds.  How can I say to what extremes you will go before you check your crazy beliefs against reality?  It seems pretty unlikely from here.  You are wedded to your beliefs no matter how hard reality hits you on the head with a sledgehammer.

I'm not questioning it, denying it or trying to erase it or trying to capitalize off it or make liberal amends by paying them off or trying to win elections by continuing to use it either. Can you say the same these days? I think its pretty clear that I'm not deeply into minority based politics as you and your WHITE liberal pals these days. Yep. I'm pretty much wedded to my beliefs and I don't take your beliefs into account or place them above my own at this point. I can pretty much guarantee that whatever reality you hit us with, we'll  respond by hitting  you with a reality that's much worse.

Alertness to the consequences of racist practice in the past is not racism. The different minority groups in America are themselves different in their cultures and in their economic interests as they are from white people -- sometimes more.  Anyone with a conscience sees much wrong in the grossly-unequal treatment of black suspects by law enforcement. Anyone with a conscience recognize that blacks  have faced pointless disadvantages of hiring, education, and lending when the American Dream was being defined in the last 1T.  

The danger is not in a government paying attention to the grievances and aspirations of minority groups; the danger is tribalism. Tribal politics is much more common among white groups that themselves are at odds. 

There are still white Americans who identify with the Confederacy. its personalities, its symbols, and even its ideology. This is a minority position even among white people. Paradoxically the connection to the Confederacy is more recent than the immediate aftermath of the Civil War; it dates from about fifty years later. That is when the Confederate statues were largely erected, and paradoxically after the Confederate veterans who might have thought such problematic for turning young and often poor men into cannon fodder to defend the Peculiar Institution against Emancipation. 

So what was going on in 1915? 

  

and this:



Cross-burning was introduced by the second (1915) Ku Klux Klan, an organization that would influence European fascist groups (including the Nazis) who would wage war against the United States. 

It may be anachronistic to call the 1915 KKK "fascist pigs"... but not by much. Mussolini was still a socialist who became a fire-breathing militarist a few years later when the 1915 Klan emerged. A heritage of resentment of the results of a prior war, a division of the world into advantaged people and pariahs ("us and them"), the quest for the recovery of lost 'greatness", easy acceptance of violence,  rejection of rational thought, and exaggerated nationalism mark the Klan as those characteristics much as those traits mark fascism. 

I have no obligation to understand this sort of racism -- including what seems barely under your surface.

[Eric the Green]

(08-07-2020, 07:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 06:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 04:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 03:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.

Wise not to put your faith, but you should put it in neither party.  During the unraveling, money seemed to over ride votes.  Both parties were parties of the elites.

May shift with the need to get rid of the Trump Republicans,   We might be patriotic and loyal to the Constitution and solving the crisis problems for a while.  But I can't blame you for being dubious.  It is just confusing that you are not being dubious about the elite racist party even if you don't push the two influences that so taint the Republicans.

As I've mentioned before, I view the Democratic side as still being the more racist/ race based side these days. You can't blame me for going by what I see and hear vs going by what you or the liberal media say or seem to believe themselves either. I doubt Oprah or the Obama's or will be able to convince more intelligent Americans that their race prevented them from achieving their place in the world. Dude, it's so stupid it's comical/border line sicking to watch  at this point.

Democrats do propose more rights for unions, and more restrictions on business. But this has weakened in two places; first, the power of the Republican Party to block them, since Democrats have not had control of the state for more than a year or two for the last 40 years, and second, the persuasive power of the Republican Reaganomics meme over the Democrats, causing them to be "new" Democrats that compromise and back down too often to the Republican policies. But Democrats are the ones who put justices on the supreme court who opposed the domination of big money over our politics, while Republicans put justices on who support the power of big money. Democrats propose reform; Republicans block and oppose it. So there's no question about which party MIGHT be willing and able to help the working man and trim the power of big business, and which one NEVER will.

But it is too bad that Democrats cave in to the fear of "socialism" to the extent that they prefer establishment new Democrats like Biden over "socialists" like Sanders. It's mainly a question of fear of the other party and fear of demons like Trump. They cave in because they don't think a "democratic socialist" can win the election against this greater evil.

It would seem logical that we should be over the race issue by now, but we're not. Many of your own statements Classic Xer prove that we are not. Discrimination, racial profiling, police brutality and so on are aimed at blacks more than at whites. The wealth gap remains huge, even though there are plenty of talented African Americans who make it well and get rich. The closet racists like you Classic Xer would suggest that blacks face no racial barriers, meaning that it must be their inherent inferiority that accounts for these enormous gaps. Democrats and progressives therefore are "racists" according to you for pointing out the fact that non-white races still face barriers in our society. You think we should just relax since everyone is already given an equal chance, that there is no police brutality or racial profiling, and that the make-up of the prison population and the wealth and income gaps are entirely the fault of the black race themselves, since we are all treated equally already, and since you claim to treat them equally yourself.

The Black Lives Matter movement exists because it needs to, because young unarmed innocent black people are targeted and then murdered by police for being "suspicious" and because "they might have a gun". When this no longer happens any more than it happens to others, then the movement will go away. Police unions and restrictions against liability prevent this from happening, and training that emphasizes producing killers gets in the way. Defunding of social and mental health care workers, and giving these jobs to the police as a result of Reaganomics, hatred of welfare and the proliferation of guns, keeps the police trigger happy and the community without the real help they need. Police reform will benefit all races, because we are all potential victims of trigger happy killer cops who do not respect our rights and who are forced to do work they are not qualified for, and who need to be armed to the teeth and ready to shoot against well-armed criminals and gangs as a result of the lack of gun control directly perpetrated by Republicans. And that's not to mention Nixon's war in drugs.

Well, you're white and I'm white and whatever we say to each other directly  or say about each other personally and so forth  has nothing to do with differences between race or people associated with the black race  or any other race at that point. You want to use them and they're cool with it that's fine with me at this point. I've already told you that I don't give a shit about you, what you do about issues related to  your cops or what you support that pertains to the lives of your cops or lively hood of your cops or whether or not you have enough cops left to call upon or rely upon down the road during times of need either at this point. Whatever you do, you can pretty much expect us to do the opposite these days.

That's interesting, what opposite things are you going to do? Of course I know you and your right-wing buddies are going to buy more guns. I hope you read Teacher in Exile's posts about your proposed civil war; he doesn't think it will get too far. You won't be able to follow Jonathon Winters' advice too well.

The opposite? OK. I suppose you want to train the cops to be even MORE violent than they are, and to pull people out of the cars, especially if they are black, and throw them on the ground and kill them, and get away with it. You want no social and mental health care workers; just leave people to their own devices; everyone's responsible for themselves and all. 

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used/ borrowed against to bring an abrupt end to the Soviet Union. You educated me on your philosophy of life during the Obama years. It didn't jive with mine at the time or today but it kind of did jive with mine about 30 some years ago when I was first started out on my own during the late 80's.

[Ragnarök_62]

(08-07-2020, 09:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ragnarök_62

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used to bring a timely end to the Soviet Union. Dude, our government has spent 80 years wasting American money on all kinds of shit. I've always been a patriotic American  who could give two shits less about the Democratic party and the Liberal elites who largely fund and control it these days. We have all kinds of big government related rackets for a bunch of rich idiots to get richer with these days. I mean, look at Biden. Would Biden be a multimillionaire today if he wasn't a life long Democratic politician?

Well, it was Trump who stated this fact that 6 trillion was wasted on wars of choice, not the Democrats.  
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...east-wars/
[ Trump exaggerated just a little bit. He's got that one right. ]

That's just for the stupid wars. I'd stuff for taking care of maimed veterans, money for useless things like the F-35, boats that don't float, and overpaid generals, etc. I'd also add money wasted on CIA missions like color revolutions as well.  None of those expenses are cold war related at all. This waste began after 911.  I think these addons would get the total to where Trump is at.

Biden and Trump are both filthy rich.  I'm just OK with Democrats using money for Obamacare, the pandemic response team  that Trump got rid of before Corona, and the Democrats' for once looking out for the working class with enhanced unemployment payments and loan forgiveness.  So far, that's way better than what Trump wants which yawn, more tax cuts and less regulations like exposing workers to Covid at the workplace. If a workplace has the virus spreading, it needs to be shut down and the workers given unemployment payments. People who get a paycheck didn't cause this mess, so they shouldn't have to suffer as much. If that means the economy crashes, oh well. Pay folks enough to eat at least. Hungry folks are desperate folks. I don't want that because it's very destabilizing to say the least. The same goes for housing. People left in the streets no  under their own freewill is just bad, not in the least because they become virus vectors. If indifferent companies like meatpackers pack their employees like sardines without personal protection, then yeah sure, shut them down. Meat packer counties in Oklahoma have lots of cases, which why I know they are a problem. They should pay for their incompetence. Folks who work don't get breaks so why should corporations?  Corporations are people too, so they should get sick by having their revenue stream disappear.

[Eric the Green]

(08-07-2020, 09:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used/ borrowed against to bring an abrupt  end to the Soviet Union. You educated me on your philosophy of life during the Obama years. It didn't jive with mine at the time or today but it kind of did jive with mine about 30 some years ago when I was first started out on my own during the late 80's.

Young people are hip; older people often lose the spirit of life and get worried about money and in their insecurity they hang on to traditions and symbols. Myself though, I keep the spirit alive.

That was the strategy, as I wrote in my book published in 1997. First one to go broke loses. So Reagan built up the military to scare the Soviets, and they had to build it up to scare us in turn. And they shot down an airliner full of Americans. They were going broke faster than us. The Russians got lucky and got a couple of reformers at the helm to try to change their system. We didn't.

The bad news is two-fold. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The commies were gone, but now they have a new tsar just as bad as the old ones. Even Eastern Europe is no longer free. Meanwhile, our new boss Reagan promised to balance the budget. Instead he unleashed the national debt as never before, and Bush and Trump have put us into total bankruptcy. We didn't fare much better than the Soviets. They got a new tsar and the same old poverty. We got a society where young people can't get ahead, where our infrastructure and education are rotten, and where we rank 36th instead of #1 in measures like life expectancy and the health of our children.

I suppose it will be OK for us to spend trillions of dollars to pay for the Trump Virus. As long as interest rates remain low, because of our slow economy, at least taxes won't go up to pay the interest on our debt. As long as the rich capture all the growth of our economy, thanks to Reaganomics (still in effect after 40 years), salaries and wages will remain flat and the economy will not overheat, and young and poor people will remain miserable.

I suppose if the Democrats get in and rebuild the middle class by deposing Reaganomics, including raising taxes on the wealthy, raising minimum wages and redistributing what the rich have extorted, the people will get more money in their pockets and the economy could heat up with inflation again. Then will be the time for the government to take its share from more of us to cool off the economy, and pay for some of the federal debt and interest as interest rates go up. But only then will we in the USA recover from that project "to bring an abrupt end to the Soviet Union" and recover our spirit. Both countries have paid a high price, and as of now I see no way out for the former Soviets.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 10:04 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 09:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ragnarök_62

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used to bring a timely end to the Soviet Union. Dude, our government has spent 80 years wasting American money on all kinds of shit. I've always been a patriotic American  who could give two shits less about the Democratic party and the Liberal elites who largely fund and control it these days. We have all kinds of big government related rackets for a bunch of rich idiots to get richer with these days. I mean, look at Biden. Would Biden be a multimillionaire today if he wasn't a life long Democratic politician?

Well, it was Trump who stated this fact that 6 trillion was wasted on wars of choice, not the Democrats.  
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...east-wars/
[ Trump exaggerated just a little bit. He's got that one right. ]

That's just for the stupid wars. I'd stuff for taking care of maimed veterans, money for useless things like the F-35, boats that don't float, and overpaid generals, etc. I'd also add money wasted on CIA missions like color revolutions as well.  None of those expenses are cold war related at all. This waste began after 911.  I think these addons would get the total to where Trump is at.

Biden and Trump are both filthy rich.  I'm just OK with Democrats using money for Obamacare, the pandemic response team  that Trump got rid of before Corona, and the Democrats' for once looking out for the working class with enhanced unemployment payments and loan forgiveness.  So far, that's way better than what Trump wants which yawn, more tax cuts and less regulations like exposing workers to Covid at the workplace. If a workplace has the virus spreading, it needs to be shut down and the workers given unemployment payments. People who get a paycheck didn't cause this mess, so they shouldn't have to suffer as much. If that means the economy crashes, oh well. Pay folks enough to eat at least. Hungry folks are desperate folks. I don't want that because it's very destabilizing to say the least. The same goes for housing. People left in the streets no  under their own freewill is just bad, not in the least because they become virus vectors. If indifferent companies like meatpackers pack their employees like sardines without personal protection, then yeah sure, shut them down. Meat packer counties in Oklahoma have lots of cases, which why I know they are a problem. They should pay for their incompetence. Folks who work don't get breaks so why should corporations?  Corporations are people too, so they should get sick by having their revenue stream disappear.

I'm OK with the Democrats shutting down cheap meat packing plants that mainly employ cheap immigrants (legal or illegal) that provide cheap food for cheap people like you to eat. I think it would be a major mistake but whatever the Democrats seem know what's best for Democrats and you seem to be on board with the Democratic way of thinking. Well, have fun starving and dealing with hungry people as you're waiting for couple of disconnected multi-millionaires/ aristocrats named Nancy and Chuck to figure it out and maybe do something about it or possibly ignore it or whatever. Like I said, I'll go in with a Republican minded friend and buy a fucking cow to eat as your waiting for free food.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-08-2020, 01:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm OK with the Democrats shutting down cheap meat packing plants that mainly employ cheap immigrants (legal or illegal)  that provide cheap food for cheap people like you to eat. I think it would be a major mistake but whatever the Democrats seem know what's best for Democrats and you seem to be on board with the Democratic way of thinking. Well, have fun starving and dealing with hungry people as you're waiting for couple of disconnected  multi-millionaires/ aristocrats  named Nancy and Chuck to figure it out and maybe do something about it or possibly ignore it or whatever. Like I said, I'll go in with a Republican minded friend and buy a fucking cow to eat as your waiting for free food.

Not enough thinking is going into changing our work habits to protect workers in the age of COVUS.  Places like meat packing plants are optimized for max profits in non pandemic times.  Expanding space to improve isolation while continuing work would be nice.  But, no.  Trump just declares meat packing plants essential, forces the workers to work, and we continue on putting workers at risk.  Let them die.  Can't let a few worker deaths impact profits, can we?

At least in buying a cow you are using a little smarts to avoid some of Trump's deaths.  More ways to work while isolating are needed.  Still, most people would rather wait on a vaccine than think and change.  I have already given ideas on how this could be done with my own software writing profession.

I am watching a handful of court cases advance, or not advance as the case might be.  MA law mandates the shut down of many court rooms and lawyers offices due to the bug, thus only major criminal cases are currently being heard.  Even if Walmart and a hospital involve in the cases are regarded as essential, they are using the COVID shutdowns as an excuse not to pay their debts.  The legal system is beginning to respond to this.  Judge's offices, jails and lawyer's offices are beginning to all have Zoom or similar interfaces so that virtual reality allows them to hold virtual meetings.  Some sense of normal pacing is returning in spite of the bug.

This is the sort of thing which everybody should be striving for, the ability to continue productive work while still isolating.  We can't afford just to stop and sit.  We can't mandate worker deaths to protect corporate profits.  We certainly can't afford certain conservatives refusing to take simple painless precautions or putting profits ahead of lives.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-07-2020, 10:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 09:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 08:31 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.

The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

Yes, the SS trust fund was stolen to pay for all of those stupid wars of choice and tax cuts for the fat cats.  The solution is to stop wasting money like that. Let's undo every tax cut since Reagan was elected and cut the military budget by 90%.  The US spends 10 times on the military than the next big spender. There's the waste fraud and abuse the Republicans always bitch about. If Republicans care about the deficit, they can fix that stuff. Uh, it's not "China's virus."  The US due to privatize everything, was a sitting duck. The corona virus arrived by the planeload because the US DIDN'T DO FUCKING SHIT TO KEEP IT OUT.  Only idiocy or incompetence make stuff like this happen. Guess what? It's gonna get worse, because the US has no clue and when folks are scared to go out now and when it gets worse, the fewer folks go out for good reason. Nobody wants to get sick. And yes, I really do want the stock market to crash, because it means nothing. I'd like a 90% crash , thank you, so I can buy stocks at the proper price. Here's another observation. The US social contract is to get a job [if you can], and spend you money. That's it, nothing more. If you can't get a job, then it's the streets for you.  I can, of course just fuck off my part of the bargain and not spend, or just get clothes from a 2nd hand store. I don't have to participate in a system that's no good.  I'll keep voting to butter my bread since that's the American way as exemplified by the fatcats.  If Warren Buffet can have a lower tax rate than I do, then I can go back to the 1970's way and ignore the , buy, buy , go into debt racket. Speaking of rackets, that's most of the US economy.  We have a healthcare racket, a college education racket, rental rackets in assorted cities, Big Food racket, Big Oil racket, and on and on, and on. I don't care if rackets crash and burn either.

It was primarily used/ borrowed against to bring an abrupt  end to the Soviet Union. You educated me on your philosophy of life during the Obama years. It didn't jive with mine at the time or today but it kind of did jive with mine about 30 some years ago when I was first started out on my own during the late 80's.

Young people are hip; older people often lose the spirit of life and get worried about money and in their insecurity they hang on to traditions and symbols. Myself though, I keep the spirit alive.

That was the strategy, as I wrote in my book published in 1997. First one to go broke loses. So Reagan built up the military to scare the Soviets, and they had to build it up to scare us in turn. And they shot down an airliner full of Americans. They were going broke faster than us. The Russians got lucky and got a couple of reformers at the helm to try to change their system. We didn't.

The bad news is two-fold. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The commies were gone, but now they have a new tsar just as bad as the old ones. Even Eastern Europe is no longer free. Meanwhile, our new boss Reagan promised to balance the budget. Instead he unleashed the national debt as never before, and Bush and Trump have put us into total bankruptcy. We didn't fare much better than the Soviets. They got a new tsar and the same old poverty. We got a society where young people can't get ahead, where our infrastructure and education are rotten, and where we rank 36th instead of #1 in measures like life expectancy and the health of our children.

I suppose it will be OK for us to spend trillions of dollars to pay for the Trump Virus. As long as interest rates remain low, because of our slow economy, at least taxes won't go up to pay the interest on our debt. As long as the rich capture all the growth of our economy, thanks to Reaganomics (still in effect after 40 years), salaries and wages will remain flat and the economy will not overheat, and young and poor people will remain miserable.

I suppose if the Democrats get in and rebuild the middle class by deposing Reaganomics, including raising taxes on the wealthy, raising minimum wages and redistributing what the rich have extorted, the people will get more money in their pockets and the economy could heat up with inflation again. Then will be the time for the government to take its share from more of us to cool off the economy, and pay for some of the federal debt and interest as interest rates go up. But only then will we in the USA recover from that project "to bring an abrupt end to the Soviet Union" and recover our spirit. Both countries have paid a high price, and as of now I see no way out for the former Soviets.

Yep. The young people seem pretty hip and care free as you say. I was the same way about thirty five years ago. I guess I fucked up by growing up and accepting responsibility vs refusing to grow up, remaining immature, self centered and reliant upon adults or nations to provide. Yes, the China virus has been very costly to all of us. So, do you think I give a shit about what Nike thinks or give a shit about what some hip basket player who happens to be black who makes MILLIONS or some group of football players who happen to be black or part black who make Millions or a group of professional sport team owners worth billions who happen to be white have to say about anything that's viewed as important or relevant to any of them these days. So, what are you going to do when America wins and all those dumb fuckers end up poorer and end up competing against the country and the system that created every fucking one of them. So, what the fuck do you have to offer them when America is done teaching them. Do you think wide scale boycotts that brings tears to eyes of bunch of dumb business owners and business professions dealing with major losses is impossible today? I'm not nearly as racist as you would hope or want to believe at this point. I watched a black dude trying to cover up what has already been determined to be a huge mistake that is going to impact everyone associated with professional sports today. IDIOTS ARE IDIOTS TO ME AND I DON'T CARE WHAT THE COLOR OF THE IDIOTS SKIN IS EITHER. I'm sorry but America has no sympathy for idiots who don't realize whose country they're living in these days.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-08-2020, 02:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sorry but America has no sympathy for idiots who don't realize whose country they're living in these days.

You are right. How does it feel to receive no sympathy?