The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-31-2020, 12:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 10:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The status quo is Donald Trump, a logical consequence of a plutocratic culture  that holds that the common man exists solely to enrich, indulge, and obey the asset-holders and power-wielders. 

PB, there is no hope for you to figure out what you're doing, saying or which side you're actually supporting at this point. Like him or not, Donald Trump represents the values of traditional American culture and the core principles that the United States of America was founded on and you and others are on the plutocratic side that wants the power to dismantle and establish themselves as rulers. You're not thinking clearly because if you were you'd understand that we have an American President, an American government, an American army, an American economy and an American Constitution that we will be defending as we are waging war with what's referred to as the Democratic party and the plutocracy that it represents today. So, get ready and be prepared to accept the consequences for being an imbecile.

There is no hope for you if don’t figure out what you’re doing.  Soldiers of the American Army have had a bounty put on their heads, and Trump hasn’t seen fit to do anything.  The allies which we worked with so long have been alienated.  The American Constitution is built on a system of checks and balances, which Trump has decided to attack and get around.  Trump has made a shambles of the American economy.  You cannot open up without bringing the virus down which he has declined to do.  The American Government which is supposed to serve the people serves Trump.  He calls it the deep state, and prevents functions like the CDC, the intelligence community or the post office from working.  Functions like border control, defending government buildings or guarding prisons are raided to inflame the violence in cities that are supposed to be controlled by Trump’s democratically elected opposition.

I must admit he is for the American president, at least when that president is himself.

Thus, a good number of people with traditional American values oppose Trump vehemently.  They will try to defend what is good in America quite intensely.  As much as you claim to defend America and it’s values, those Americans who live on Earth One, who value truth, who don’t live in the Fox bubble, are as intensely defending all that is American just as intensely as you claim.

At bottom, that may be the biggest thing that we carry out of this crisis.  We cannot let the super rich create a fantasy for their own benefit.  We have to value truth and science, and let those principles guide our politics.  Enough of lies.  The real difference at the moment is not so much that the elites lie at the expense of the working man, but that so many are willing to believe the lies.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 02:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: In my karate and kung fu days, I picked up a few thoughts on violence.  If you actually know stuff, you don’t have to prove it.  Picking a fight with an unknown opponent proves nothing.  Thus, your constant reference to how you would use violence gives you away.  No one I knew at either school talked like that, but anyone but a beginner could likely enough kick your rear if they had to.

These days I am handicapped and still am threatened.  I find it amusing.  It is not the dog that is usually yapping and noisy that is the threat.  My tenant keeps a St Bernard called Big Charley on the back porch.  He is there so much that everyone assumes he is chained there.  Um, no.  He is just obedient.  One day someone came after my tenant with intent to rape.  Her response was to yell a little loudly the word, "Charley".  The guy learned the difference between chained and obedient, and suddenly decided to leave the property. 

The military I respect.  The civilians?  The KKK?  The Neo Nazi?  The Boogaloo Bois?  The militia?  They have not given any reason to respect them.  

Yes, the liberals have mostly discovered that protest and legislation is a more effective route than violence.  As I’ve said many a time, insurgent war and nukes have made conflict much less cost effective than it used to be.  Lately, non violence is usually effective against most opponents.  Then again, most opponents listen to the people.  There are more than a few autocracies that don’t listen.  The Soviet Union finally gave up without violence, but that is no guarantee that all autocratic regimes will.  

But I haven’t any real hope you will think things through.  You let your hunter gatherer emotions control you.  You don’t listen or think things through.  But, hey, COVID leaves me far too much time.  Might as well waste it here.

True. If you know your stuff, you don't have to flaunt it or prove it. All you have to do is show it. I learned that while playing sports. I don't pick fights. I stand my ground and don't back down and force them to make the first move. Once again, who's territory am I in? I picked one fight with a religious conservative/ Evangelical in all the years that I've been posting with you and the others here. Other than that, I've spent my time defeating those who made/make the mistake of picking a fight with me and defeating those who ganged up on me and challenging the integrity of people like you who sit in their safe Ivory Towers and lie and act like traitors and viciously attack our soldiers and our police without seeming to know or understand of the situation that they're in during times of war or the situations they find themselves in while on the job and not showing any signs of having any appreciation or mercy for them. You are a Liberal piece of shit to me and there is nothing you can do or say to change my mind or improve the lowly status that you and others here have earned with us at this point. You are fair game here, fair game on the streets, fair game in bars and fair game where ever you pop up because there isn't a decent Democrat to defend you from us. All you have to save you from us is a group of transplanted Republicans that you were at war with before Obama.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 01:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 12:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 10:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The status quo is Donald Trump, a logical consequence of a plutocratic culture  that holds that the common man exists solely to enrich, indulge, and obey the asset-holders and power-wielders. 

PB, there is no hope for you to figure out what you're doing, saying or which side you're actually supporting at this point. Like him or not, Donald Trump represents the values of traditional American culture and the core principles that the United States of America was founded on and you and others are on the plutocratic side that wants the power to dismantle and establish themselves as rulers. You're not thinking clearly because if you were you'd understand that we have an American President, an American government, an American army, an American economy and an American Constitution that we will be defending as we are waging war with what's referred to as the Democratic party and the plutocracy that it represents today. So, get ready and be prepared to accept the consequences for being an imbecile.

There is no hope for you if don’t figure out what you’re doing.  Soldiers of the American Army have had a bounty put on their heads, and Trump hasn’t seen fit to do anything.  The allies which we worked with so long have been alienated.  The American Constitution is built on a system of checks and balances, which Trump has decided to attack and get around.  Trump has made a shambles of the American economy.  You cannot open up without bringing the virus down which he has declined to do.  The American Government which is supposed to serve the people serves Trump.  He calls it the deep state, and prevents functions like the CDC, the intelligence community or the post office from working.  Functions like border control, defending government buildings or guarding prisons are raided to inflame the violence in cities that are supposed to be controlled by Trump’s democratically elected opposition.

I must admit he is for the American president, at least when that president is himself.

Thus, a good number of people with traditional American values oppose Trump vehemently.  They will try to defend what is good in America quite intensely.  As much as you claim to defend America and it’s values, those Americans who live on Earth One, who value truth, who don’t live in the Fox bubble, are as intensely defending all that is American just as intensely as you claim.

At bottom, that may be the biggest thing that we carry out of this crisis.  We cannot let the super rich create a fantasy for their own benefit.  We have to value truth and science, and let those principles guide our politics.  Enough of lies.  The real difference at the moment is not so much that the elites lie at the expense of the working man, but that so many are willing to believe the lies.

According to Trump and several defense officials, there was/is no definitive proof that there's a bounty on our troops. If there is, you can expect to see a high ranking Russian official associated with Russian clandestine operations directly tied to Putin assassinated with a US drone like we've already seen happen in the not so distant past. Are you going to freak out and scold him and call him a murderer and feed or go along with Russian propaganda like the last time? Yep. The American economy is struggling right now with all the COVID19 restrictions and all the mainly Democratic fears related to the overall deadliness of the virus and so forth. You seem to forget that the virus wasn't Trump's fault and you seem to forget the origin of the virus wasn't the United States and seem to forget that there are Liberal elites who have fortunes invested/tied up in the Chinese economy and continued unfettered American related trade with China.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-31-2020, 02:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: True. If you know your stuff, you don't have to flaunt it or prove it. All you have to do is show it. I learned that while playing sports. I don't pick fights. I stand my ground and don't back down and force them to make the first move. Once again, who's territory am I in? I picked one fight with a religious conservative/ Evangelical in all the years that I've been posting with you and the others here. Other than that, I've spent my time defeating those who made/make the mistake of picking a fight with me and defeating those who ganged up on me and challenging the integrity of people like you who sit in their safe Ivory Towers and lie and act like traitors and viciously attack our soldiers and our police without seeming to know or  understand of the situation that they're in during times of war or the situations they find themselves in while on the job and not showing any signs of having any appreciation or mercy for them. You are a Liberal piece of shit to me and there is nothing you can do or say to change my mind or improve the lowly status that you and others here have earned with us at this point. You are fair game here, fair game on the streets, fair game in bars and fair game where ever you pop up because there isn't a decent Democrat to defend you from us. All you have to save you from us is a group of transplanted Republicans that you were at war with before Obama.

You are still yapping.  Even while admitting that the yappers are not the serious fighters, you still yap.

Soldiers.  Xenakis is also obsessed with violence,  A different slant.  He deals with xenophobia.  He claims war is about one people that hate another.  I have added two other causes.  War can also be about elites seeking a profit.  War is a racket.  War can be about fulfilling some ideal.  For example, one can be freeing the slaves, shaking the shackles of colonial imperialism, making the world safe for democracy, etc…

In a lot of ways, many conflicts might invoke all three reasons.  You want your troops to think the enemy is inhuman so they will fight without question.  The elite will be looking to make a profit if they think they can use a superior military to cash in.  When talking to the press or the civilian population you will use idealistic reasons for war, whether you believe in them or not.

In this time of insurgent proxy war, when you are fighting for the hearts and minds of the locals, can you afford to dehumanize the locals?  If a sniper opens fire from a village, do you order an artillery strike on the village?  How about if members of a wedding party fire their guns into the air?  Do you wipe out the wedding party?

I heard of one story when some American soldiers were stationed in Iraq, how they spotted a guy carrying an assault rifle.  Bang.  Target down.  Celebration.  High fives.  Happy happy, joy joy.  A pair of binoculars.  The shooters got a good look at a guy in pain from a gut shot, blood, writhing, knowing he was dying, heading that way fast.  

Do you want an army trained to hate, trained to treat the enemy as targets, trained to follow orders to maximum efficiency?  If you work towards that, if you maximize xenophobia, do you have a realistic chance to win hearts and minds?  Should you engage in what might well escalate into a proxy insurgent war?

The new Iraqi government said it would not accept American troops without their facing the people who accuse them of war crimes.  Again, do you want to go in with a murderous intent against the locals, or do you want to win in a battle of hearts and minds?  What sort of military do you want to have?  Is it more prudent to have heartless killers who obey orders, and to keep that you leave Iraq?

No easy answer.  Still, you have to respect the people who ask the question.  Real violence is not what you experienced on the sports field.

The cops?  In many ways they face the same problem.  The choice is a little more clear.  Is their loyalty to the law and to the community, or to their race and the blue wall of silence.  I can respect the former while trying to eliminate the latter.  If you treat people with a certain skin tint as the enemy and feel free to murder them and count on your fellow officers to keep silent, there is a problem.  Such people are not worthy of respect.  If a cop treats a bad cop as a fellow cop in blue, shows no loyalty to the law or the community, we have two bad cops.  That has to be made clear.

Now you have shown me nothing to show you understand real violence.  You are a yapper.  In my career as a software engineer I contributed to all three legs of the nuclear triad: bombers, ICBMs and submarine based missiles.  These were the programs which I can talk about.  Some of the others are more highly classified.  You think what you experienced on the sports field is what it is all about.  Silly you.

Are nuclear weapons a deterrence, responsible for a vast decrease in crisis war trigger events among major powers?  Or are they a horror that should be banned?  Is the Information Age idea that violence is a last resort prudent and wise?  Was the War for Oil launched by Bush 43 and the Neo Cons and wound up destabilizing the Middle East a good idea?  Does your career as an air conditioning repairman qualify you to answer such questions?  What do you know of the use of the violence you are so obsessed with?

I share your final thought.  You have earned a lowly status.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 04:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: You are still yapping.  Even while admitting that the yappers are not the serious fighters, you still yap.

Soldiers.  Xenakis is also obsessed with violence,  A different slant.  He deals with xenophobia.  He claims war is about one people that hate another.  I have added two other causes.  War can also be about elites seeking a profit.  War is a racket.  War can be about fulfilling some ideal.  For example, one can be freeing the slaves, shaking the shackles of colonial imperialism, making the world safe for democracy, etc…

In a lot of ways, many conflicts might invoke all three reasons.  You want your troops to think the enemy is inhuman so they will fight without question.  The elite will be looking to make a profit if they think they can use a superior military to cash in.  When talking to the press or the civilian population you will use idealistic reasons for war, whether you believe in them or not.

In this time of insurgent proxy war, when you are fighting for the hearts and minds of the locals, can you afford to dehumanize the locals?  If a sniper opens fire from a village, do you order an artillery strike on the village?  How about if members of a wedding party fire their guns into the air?  Do you wipe out the wedding party?

I heard of one story when some American soldiers were stationed in Iraq, how they spotted a guy carrying an assault rifle.  Bang.  Target down.  Celebration.  High fives.  Happy happy, joy joy.  A pair of binoculars.  The shooters got a good look at a guy in pain from a gut shot, blood, writhing, knowing he was dying, heading that way fast.  

Do you want an army trained to hate, trained to treat the enemy as targets, trained to follow orders to maximum efficiency?  If you work towards that, if you maximize xenophobia, do you have a realistic chance to win hearts and minds?  Should you engage in what might well escalate into a proxy insurgent war?

The new Iraqi government said it would not accept American troops without their facing the people who accuse them of war crimes.  Again, do you want to go in with a murderous intent against the locals, or do you want to win in a battle of hearts and minds?  What sort of military do you want to have?  Is it more prudent to have heartless killers who obey orders, and to keep that you leave Iraq?

No easy answer.  Still, you have to respect the people who ask the question.  Real violence is not what you experienced on the sports field.

The cops?  In many ways they face the same problem.  The choice is a little more clear.  Is their loyalty to the law and to the community, or to their race and the blue wall of silence.  I can respect the former while trying to eliminate the latter.  If you treat people with a certain skin tint as the enemy and feel free to murder them and count on your fellow officers to keep silent, there is a problem.  Such people are not worthy of respect.  If a cop treats a bad cop as a fellow cop in blue, shows no loyalty to the law or the community, we have two bad cops.  That has to be made clear.

Now you have shown me nothing to show you understand real violence.  You are a yapper.  In my career as a software engineer I contributed to all three legs of the nuclear triad: bombers, ICBMs and submarine based missiles.  These were the programs which I can talk about.  Some of the others are more highly classified.  You think what you experienced on the sports field is what it is all about.  Silly you.

Are nuclear weapons a deterrence, responsible for a vast decrease in crisis war trigger events among major powers?  Or are they a horror that should be banned?  Is the Information Age idea that violence is a last resort prudent and wise?  Was the War for Oil launched by Bush 43 and the Neo Cons and wound up destabilizing the Middle East a good idea?  Does your career as an air conditioning repairman qualify you to answer such questions?  What do you know of the use of the violence you are so obsessed with?

I share your final thought.  You have earned a lowly status.

Yep. I'm still yapping and I plan to continue yapping until the shooting starts. Then, I'm free to start treating you and the others as enemies of the American state. Can't do much other than yap considering the way we are communicating and the distance between us. Do you know what I heard and watched on Fox news this evening? I heard about another killing that occurred in Portland and I watched as a Trump supporter was gunned down in cold blood by a member of Black Lives Matter as it occurred live and uncensored which has already been released and gone viral. Like I told you before, I don't give a shit if you're a cripple and have a mental disorder caused by a brain tumor and probably shouldn't be posting on a public forum about shit that you know little about at this particular time in our history as a nation. You're a big boy who has a right to make his own decisions and speak freely.

[pbrower2a]

(08-31-2020, 04:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 01:37 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 12:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 10:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The status quo is Donald Trump, a logical consequence of a plutocratic culture  that holds that the common man exists solely to enrich, indulge, and obey the asset-holders and power-wielders. 

PB, there is no hope for you to figure out what you're doing, saying or which side you're actually supporting at this point. Like him or not, Donald Trump represents the values of traditional American culture and the core principles that the United States of America was founded on and you and others are on the plutocratic side that wants the power to dismantle and establish themselves as rulers. You're not thinking clearly because if you were you'd understand that we have an American President, an American government, an American army, an American economy and an American Constitution that we will be defending as we are waging war with what's referred to as the Democratic party and the plutocracy that it represents today. So, get ready and be prepared to accept the consequences for being an imbecile.

There is no hope for you if don’t figure out what you’re doing.  Soldiers of the American Army have had a bounty put on their heads, and Trump hasn’t seen fit to do anything.  The allies which we worked with so long have been alienated.  The American Constitution is built on a system of checks and balances, which Trump has decided to attack and get around.  Trump has made a shambles of the American economy.  You cannot open up without bringing the virus down which he has declined to do.  The American Government which is supposed to serve the people serves Trump.  He calls it the deep state, and prevents functions like the CDC, the intelligence community or the post office from working.  Functions like border control, defending government buildings or guarding prisons are raided to inflame the violence in cities that are supposed to be controlled by Trump’s democratically elected opposition.

I must admit he is for the American president, at least when that president is himself.

Thus, a good number of people with traditional American values oppose Trump vehemently.  They will try to defend what is good in America quite intensely.  As much as you claim to defend America and it’s values, those Americans who live on Earth One, who value truth, who don’t live in the Fox bubble, are as intensely defending all that is American just as intensely as you claim.

At bottom, that may be the biggest thing that we carry out of this crisis.  We cannot let the super rich create a fantasy for their own benefit.  We have to value truth and science, and let those principles guide our politics.  Enough of lies.  The real difference at the moment is not so much that the elites lie at the expense of the working man, but that so many are willing to believe the lies.

According to Trump and several defense officials, there was/is no definitive proof that there's a bounty on our troops. If there is, you can expect to see a high ranking Russian official associated with Russian clandestine operations directly tied to Putin assassinated with a US drone like we've already seen happen in the not so distant past. Are you going to freak out and scold him and call him a murderer and feed or go along with Russian propaganda like the last time? Yep. The American economy is struggling right now with all the COVID19 restrictions and all the mainly Democratic fears related to the overall deadliness of the virus and so forth. You seem to forget that the virus wasn't Trump's fault and you seem to forget the origin of the virus wasn't the United States and seem to forget that there are Liberal elites who have fortunes invested/tied up in the Chinese economy and continued unfettered American related trade with China.

The word of a liar or a fool is itself worthless, which explains why I never accept anything that Donald Trump says at face value. At times I cannot tell whether he is a liar or a fool, but malignant intent and extreme incompetence (including at the most important deed that an adult with adult responsibilities can do, which is to discern  either truth or its closest approximation) have shown, in my experience, to have much the same dire consequences. I doubt that there will be any drone strike by the Trump administration, as there is not enough time for such before the election. Besides, President Trump may need a safe haven should he fear criminal prosecution such as for negligent homicide involving COVID-19. 

That is not a freak-out. That is a cautious assessment. 

I am in no position in which to predict how Joe Biden will deal with Vladimir Putin... things on January 21, 2021 could be so messy that taking revenge against Putin might be a low priority. Mercy may come at a price for Putin... maybe return territory snipped off Ukraine to Ukraine? 

Donald Trump's handling of COVID-19 is a catastrophe on the scale of a bungled war. Through his incompetence, his failed leadership, and his intellectual hollowness he failed to do what would have made America's war with COVID-19 something other than the costly stalemate that has cost so many lives.  If I were President I would treat COVID-19 as a dangerous enemy in the sense that Osama bin Laden was. I would follow the lead, if necessary, of Big Business in shutting down operations to save money as did for-profit sports leagues. If it takes a shutdown of much of the consumer economy for a couple months to keep losses from mounting to dangerous levels... then that is exactly what FDR did in World War II, and for a far longer time -- just as did his good buddy Sir Winston Churchill. If it takes a sacrifice of a free market and consumer indulgence to save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives... you know, keeping from having signs like this popping up in America or Britain:





FDR made the same choice that Churchill did. It was the right choice. As a German-American I would rather convert to Judaism than be a Nazi scum... I know which way requires far fewer compromises of my moral and cultural values 

Do you get the point? We are in a Crisis, and we need a leader capable of expressing values that transcend time and place in the defense of civilization. Donald Trump has no idea of what civilization is, let alone its value. 

What would I tell people to do rather than indulge in the social, consumer economy in person? Use their computers to connect to great music and literature and to get informed about COVID-19. I would promote messages in WWII-style posters telling people to stay home. It is now past that stage.  Trump wasted the efforts that many state and local governments, businesses, religious bodies, and persons have already done. We may have to start over during the Biden Presidency... except with 180,000 (so far, and counting) deaths. People who have died of COVID-19, unlike those who have died in America's victorious wars to achieve or maintain independence, to emancipate slaves, and to defeat aggression by totalitarian powers, have died for nothing except to demonstrate what a horrible person Donald Trump is.  

How bad is Donald Trump? The best arguments against Donald Trump are conservative and Christian. It is as if a Democratic President had gone so far in destroying a market economy and toying with Marxist rhetoric while developing a cult of personality that genuine liberals would have to align with a conservative, free-market, Bible-believing leader just to ensure that the next chance for a liberal America will be desirable.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 08:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The word of a liar or a fool is itself worthless, which explains why I never accept anything that Donald Trump says at face value. At times I cannot tell whether he is a liar or a fool, but malignant intent and extreme incompetence (including at the most important deed that an adult with adult responsibilities can do, which is to discern  either truth or its closest approximation) have shown, in my experience, to have much the same dire consequences. I doubt that there will be any drone strike by the Trump administration, as there is not enough time for such before the election. Besides, President Trump may need a safe haven should he fear criminal prosecution such as for negligent homicide involving COVID-19. 

That is not a freak-out. That is a cautious assessment. 

I am in no position in which to predict how Joe Biden will deal with Vladimir Putin... things on January 21, 2021 could be so messy that taking revenge against Putin might be a low priority. Mercy may come at a price for Putin... maybe return territory snipped off Ukraine to Ukraine? 

Donald Trump's handling of COVID-19 is a catastrophe on the scale of a bungled war. Through his incompetence, his failed leadership, and his intellectual hollowness he failed to do what would have made America's war with COVID-19 something other than the costly stalemate that has cost so many lives.  If I were President I would treat COVID-19 as a dangerous enemy in the sense that Osama bin Laden was. I would follow the lead, if necessary, of Big Business in shutting down operations to save money as did for-profit sports leagues. If it takes a shutdown of much of the consumer economy for a couple months to keep losses from mounting to dangerous levels... then that is exactly what FDR did in World War II, and for a far longer time -- just as did his good buddy Sir Winston Churchill. If it takes a sacrifice of a free market and consumer indulgence to save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives... you know, keeping from having signs like this popping up in America or Britain:





FDR made the same choice that Churchill did. It was the right choice. As a German-American I would rather convert to Judaism than be a Nazi scum... I know which way requires far fewer compromises of my moral and cultural values 

Do you get the point? We are in a Crisis, and we need a leader capable of expressing values that transcend time and place in the defense of civilization. Donald Trump has no idea of what civilization is, let alone its value. 

What would I tell people to do rather than indulge in the social, consumer economy in person? Use their computers to connect to great music and literature and to get informed about COVID-19. I would promote messages in WWII-style posters telling people to stay home. It is now past that stage.  Trump wasted the efforts that many state and local governments, businesses, religious bodies, and persons have already done. We may have to start over during the Biden Presidency... except with 180,000 (so far, and counting) deaths. People who have died of COVID-19, unlike those who have died in America's victorious wars to achieve or maintain independence, to emancipate slaves, and to defeat aggression by totalitarian powers, have died for nothing except to demonstrate what a horrible person Donald Trump is.  

How bad is Donald Trump? The best arguments against Donald Trump are conservative and Christian. It is as if a Democratic President had gone so far in destroying a market economy and toying with Marxist rhetoric while developing a cult of personality that genuine liberals would have to align with a conservative, free-market, Bible-believing leader just to ensure that the next chance for a liberal America will be desirable.

Yep. The word of a liar and fool is worthless. You should stop talking out of your ass while your ahead and go a way. I don't like idea of destroying you in public but I'll do it if you choose to continue talking out your ass. I actually think the Trump administration has done a pretty good with the Covid19 crisis considering we were blind sided and in a position of having to start from scratch and respond to an unknown virus with limited supplies and mobilize and convert manufacturing that didn't exist. Yes, I know we've lost a couple hundred thousand lives so far but it could/should have been much worse so far.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 01:27 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Were you arrested for assault for this behavior by one your people in uniform? You think this is any different from the rioters you and your side go on and on about? Do you think you guys playing rough, and kicking radical leftists in the ass, will decide who rules the country? Do you realize that Trump and McConnell are the ones holding up relief funds for the police? Do you realize the police are public sector workers that require "socialism" to pay for?

Nope. I have never had a REALLY serious altercation with another person that involved law enforcement.

[Eric the Green]

(08-31-2020, 09:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 08:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The word of a liar or a fool is itself worthless, which explains why I never accept anything that Donald Trump says at face value. At times I cannot tell whether he is a liar or a fool, but malignant intent and extreme incompetence (including at the most important deed that an adult with adult responsibilities can do, which is to discern  either truth or its closest approximation) have shown, in my experience, to have much the same dire consequences. I doubt that there will be any drone strike by the Trump administration, as there is not enough time for such before the election. Besides, President Trump may need a safe haven should he fear criminal prosecution such as for negligent homicide involving COVID-19. 

That is not a freak-out. That is a cautious assessment. 

I am in no position in which to predict how Joe Biden will deal with Vladimir Putin... things on January 21, 2021 could be so messy that taking revenge against Putin might be a low priority. Mercy may come at a price for Putin... maybe return territory snipped off Ukraine to Ukraine? 

Donald Trump's handling of COVID-19 is a catastrophe on the scale of a bungled war. Through his incompetence, his failed leadership, and his intellectual hollowness he failed to do what would have made America's war with COVID-19 something other than the costly stalemate that has cost so many lives.  If I were President I would treat COVID-19 as a dangerous enemy in the sense that Osama bin Laden was. I would follow the lead, if necessary, of Big Business in shutting down operations to save money as did for-profit sports leagues. If it takes a shutdown of much of the consumer economy for a couple months to keep losses from mounting to dangerous levels... then that is exactly what FDR did in World War II, and for a far longer time -- just as did his good buddy Sir Winston Churchill. If it takes a sacrifice of a free market and consumer indulgence to save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives... you know, keeping from having signs like this popping up in America or Britain:





FDR made the same choice that Churchill did. It was the right choice. As a German-American I would rather convert to Judaism than be a Nazi scum... I know which way requires far fewer compromises of my moral and cultural values 

Do you get the point? We are in a Crisis, and we need a leader capable of expressing values that transcend time and place in the defense of civilization. Donald Trump has no idea of what civilization is, let alone its value. 

What would I tell people to do rather than indulge in the social, consumer economy in person? Use their computers to connect to great music and literature and to get informed about COVID-19. I would promote messages in WWII-style posters telling people to stay home. It is now past that stage.  Trump wasted the efforts that many state and local governments, businesses, religious bodies, and persons have already done. We may have to start over during the Biden Presidency... except with 180,000 (so far, and counting) deaths. People who have died of COVID-19, unlike those who have died in America's victorious wars to achieve or maintain independence, to emancipate slaves, and to defeat aggression by totalitarian powers, have died for nothing except to demonstrate what a horrible person Donald Trump is.  

How bad is Donald Trump? The best arguments against Donald Trump are conservative and Christian. It is as if a Democratic President had gone so far in destroying a market economy and toying with Marxist rhetoric while developing a cult of personality that genuine liberals would have to align with a conservative, free-market, Bible-believing leader just to ensure that the next chance for a liberal America will be desirable.

Yep. The word of a liar and fool is worthless. You should stop talking out of your ass while your ahead and go a way. I don't like idea of destroying you in public but I'll do it if you choose to continue talking out your ass. I actually think the Trump administration has done a pretty good with the Covid19 crisis considering we were blind sided and in a position of having to start from scratch and respond to an unknown virus with limited supplies and mobilize and convert manufacturing that didn't exist. Yes, I know we've lost a couple hundred thousand lives so far but it could/should have been much worse so far.

Pretty good? Trump and his HHS secretary ignored warnings from all the scientists, which allowed covid to spread in the USA until we in the USA became the most-infected nation. We had limited supplies and were blindsided thanks to Trump. Dr. Bright was fired for sounding the warning, and now Trump has hired someone for his pandemic team who advocates herd immunity, which would require that 2 million more people of the USA would die. And he is listening to him, according to the Washington Post. Listen to Dr. Bright.





If enough people in the USA vote for our fake president so that he wins again, then we as a nation deserve what we get. I don't know why anyone would vote to stay in Trump's prison.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-31-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Pretty good? Trump and his HHS secretary ignored warnings from all the scientists, which allowed covid to spread in the USA until we in the USA became the most-infected nation. We had limited supplies and were blindsided thanks to Trump. Dr. Bright was fired for sounding the warning, and now Trump has hired someone for his pandemic team who advocates herd immunity, which would require that 2 million more people of the USA would die. And he is listening to him, according to the Washington Post. Listen to Dr. Bright.





If enough people in the USA vote for our fake president so that he wins again, then we as a nation deserve what we get. I don't know why anyone would vote to stay in Trump's prison.

I'll keep it short and say that I won't be voting for your fake president.

[pbrower2a]

(08-31-2020, 09:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 08:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The word of a liar or a fool is itself worthless, which explains why I never accept anything that Donald Trump says at face value. At times I cannot tell whether he is a liar or a fool, but malignant intent and extreme incompetence (including at the most important deed that an adult with adult responsibilities can do, which is to discern  either truth or its closest approximation) have shown, in my experience, to have much the same dire consequences. I doubt that there will be any drone strike by the Trump administration, as there is not enough time for such before the election. Besides, President Trump may need a safe haven should he fear criminal prosecution such as for negligent homicide involving COVID-19. 

That is not a freak-out. That is a cautious assessment. 

I am in no position in which to predict how Joe Biden will deal with Vladimir Putin... things on January 21, 2021 could be so messy that taking revenge against Putin might be a low priority. Mercy may come at a price for Putin... maybe return territory snipped off Ukraine to Ukraine? 

Donald Trump's handling of COVID-19 is a catastrophe on the scale of a bungled war. Through his incompetence, his failed leadership, and his intellectual hollowness he failed to do what would have made America's war with COVID-19 something other than the costly stalemate that has cost so many lives.  If I were President I would treat COVID-19 as a dangerous enemy in the sense that Osama bin Laden was. I would follow the lead, if necessary, of Big Business in shutting down operations to save money as did for-profit sports leagues. If it takes a shutdown of much of the consumer economy for a couple months to keep losses from mounting to dangerous levels... then that is exactly what FDR did in World War II, and for a far longer time -- just as did his good buddy Sir Winston Churchill. If it takes a sacrifice of a free market and consumer indulgence to save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives... you know, keeping from having signs like this popping up in America or Britain:





FDR made the same choice that Churchill did. It was the right choice. As a German-American I would rather convert to Judaism than be a Nazi scum... I know which way requires far fewer compromises of my moral and cultural values 

Do you get the point? We are in a Crisis, and we need a leader capable of expressing values that transcend time and place in the defense of civilization. Donald Trump has no idea of what civilization is, let alone its value. 

What would I tell people to do rather than indulge in the social, consumer economy in person? Use their computers to connect to great music and literature and to get informed about COVID-19. I would promote messages in WWII-style posters telling people to stay home. It is now past that stage.  Trump wasted the efforts that many state and local governments, businesses, religious bodies, and persons have already done. We may have to start over during the Biden Presidency... except with 180,000 (so far, and counting) deaths. People who have died of COVID-19, unlike those who have died in America's victorious wars to achieve or maintain independence, to emancipate slaves, and to defeat aggression by totalitarian powers, have died for nothing except to demonstrate what a horrible person Donald Trump is.  

How bad is Donald Trump? The best arguments against Donald Trump are conservative and Christian. It is as if a Democratic President had gone so far in destroying a market economy and toying with Marxist rhetoric while developing a cult of personality that genuine liberals would have to align with a conservative, free-market, Bible-believing leader just to ensure that the next chance for a liberal America will be desirable.

Yep. The word of a liar and fool is worthless. You should stop talking out of your ass while your ahead and go a way. I don't like idea of destroying you in public but I'll do it if you choose to continue talking out your ass. I actually think the Trump administration has done a pretty good with the Covid19 crisis considering we were blind sided and in a position of having to start from scratch and respond to an unknown virus with limited supplies and mobilize and convert manufacturing that didn't exist. Yes, I know we've lost a couple hundred thousand lives so far but it could/should have been much worse so far.

I use my fingers when I post, thank you. If you think that Trump has done well in dealing with COVID-19, then you might be so foolish as to believe that the best first move in chess is to push the King's bishop's pawn. (Such moves comprise the two worst starts in chess, and I have not started a game with that move for fifty years). 

How could Trump do worse than he has done with COVID-19? Other countries similar in economic development have had lower levels of infection than we have had. Short of encouraging people to have COVID-19 parties in which sick people infect healthy people, how could he do worse? Mark my words --  Trump's Republican convention, a show of people exposing themselves to whatever germs are out there when the germs are so dangerous that they make this fellow 



less menacing. About ten people die each year of rattlesnake bites in America even though rattlers are more common than they might seem. Rattlers have the sense to back off when they recognize a dangerous predator. A rattler is likely to back off in your presence or the presence of your pooch. It even fears a cat that, even if not venomous, can deliver a lethal bite to any animal with a small neck or throat. A cat boxes a rattler until the rattler is exhausted and then delivers a lethal bite to the vulnerable neck or throat,   

A person who can spread COVID-19 viruses through a cough or sneeze is arguably deadlier than a rattler. Mask it or casket!

"A couple hundred deaths" is no triviality unless one is evil in the sense that Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mao, Idi Amin, or Saddam Hussein is evil.

[pbrower2a]

(09-01-2020, 12:24 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Pretty good? Trump and his HHS secretary ignored warnings from all the scientists, which allowed covid to spread in the USA until we in the USA became the most-infected nation. We had limited supplies and were blindsided thanks to Trump. Dr. Bright was fired for sounding the warning, and now Trump has hired someone for his pandemic team who advocates herd immunity, which would require that 2 million more people of the USA would die. And he is listening to him, according to the Washington Post. Listen to Dr. Bright.





If enough people in the USA vote for our fake president so that he wins again, then we as a nation deserve what we get. I don't know why anyone would vote to stay in Trump's prison.

I'll keep it short and say that I won't be voting for your fake president.

Two months and two days and we will find out whether we get Lincoln's "new Birth of Freedom" or a horrific nightmare.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-31-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump and his HHS secretary ignored warnings from all the scientists, which allowed covid to spread in the USA until we in the USA became the most-infected nation. We had limited supplies and were blindsided thanks to Trump. Dr. Bright was fired for sounding the warning, and now Trump has hired someone for his pandemic team who advocates herd immunity, which would require that 2 million more people of the USA would die. And he is listening to him, according to the Washington Post. Listen to Dr. Bright.

Two million?  That puts him more or less on the same level of the great genocide people of the last crisis.  Does he want to challenge Hitler's more targeted six million Jews?

Wiki has a list of genocides.  It looks like Trump has just passed the Roman conquest of Carthage in 146 BC.  He has quite a ways to go before he exceeds the Holocaust.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-31-2020, 08:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. I'm still yapping and I plan to continue yapping until the shooting starts. Then, I'm free to start treating you and the others as enemies of the American state. Can't do much other than yap considering the way we are communicating and the distance between us. Do you know what I heard and watched on Fox news this evening? I heard about another killing that occurred in Portland and I watched as a Trump supporter was gunned down in cold blood by a member of Black Lives Matter as it occurred live and uncensored which has already been released and gone viral. Like I told you before, I don't give a shit if you're a cripple and have a mental disorder caused by a brain tumor and probably shouldn't be posting on a public forum about shit that you know little about at this particular time in our history as a nation. You're a big boy who has a right to make his own decisions and speak freely.

So long as you are aware that the yapping sounds quite a bit like 'Brack buck buck buck'.

Not against the American State.  I do occasionally reference the Cousin’s War perspective.  This traces back to the English Civil War, the American Revolution, and the American Civil War.  There are two cultures in conflict in all three wars, which evolved into the red blue divide today.  It all started with the Cavaliers who tended to settle near Virginia, and the Roundheads near New England.  Both elements have contributed to American culture, but both are American.  The more rural, conservative, Cavalier faction just got more tied up with the elitists and the racists.  I am more sympathetic with the progressive faction that wants to get rid of the worst elements of the culture every four score and seven years.  If the conservatives could be purged of the affinity for racism and a division of wealth, they would be a better contribution to what America ought to be.

In cold blood?  The way the coastal media is covering the event, the Trump supporters in pickup trucks, were firing paint guns into crowds of peaceful protesters.  Nothing was happening until the Trump caravan arrived.  By carrying both paint ball guns which were used freely and real weapons should their opponents respond, they were showing a premeditated desire to provoke and escalate.  Paint guns, for example, are traditionally used against people with eye protection, which  most of the protestors did not have.  Yet, the Trump supporters fired into the crowd.  Also, most people should have been aware that wherever any protestor protesting anything is present, the Boogaloo boys and their ilk will be there too.  They want to escalate the violence too, to start their boogaloo.  If you get two allegedly right wing factions eager to escalate violence on opposite ’sides’, guess what happens?  What are the local blue government, good cops and protestors exercising their First Amendment rights to do?

Violence isn’t a sport.  It ought to be a last resort.  People whose understanding of violence is limited to sporting events have to learn, have to grow up.  But if they live in the Fox bubble and hear only the red version of events, they can’t.

[pbrower2a]

(09-01-2020, 06:03 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump and his HHS secretary ignored warnings from all the scientists, which allowed covid to spread in the USA until we in the USA became the most-infected nation. We had limited supplies and were blindsided thanks to Trump. Dr. Bright was fired for sounding the warning, and now Trump has hired someone for his pandemic team who advocates herd immunity, which would require that 2 million more people of the USA would die. And he is listening to him, according to the Washington Post. Listen to Dr. Bright.

Two million?  That puts him more or less on the same level of the great genocide people of the last crisis.  Does he want to challenge Hitler's more targeted six million Jews?

Wiki has a list of genocides.  It looks like Trump has just passed the Roman conquest of Carthage in 146 BC.  He has quite a ways to go before he exceeds the Holocaust.

If there is any evidence of dissimilar hostility toward groups through policy, then Trump is a perpetrator of class-based or ethnicity-based mass murder.

[David Horn]

(08-31-2020, 01:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 09:55 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 02:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I've heard Pelosi was playing hardball and she won't settle for less than what she wants and feels she needs to maintain the status quo. So, I guess the blue states, blue cities. blue schools and what's left of their police forces have to go without until she becomes more reasonable  or scared about the aftermath. Like I said, we're mainly dealing with COVID19 and the financial aftermath is still  yet to come.

So far, neither Mitch McConnel nor Mark Meadows has offered an alternative, so what does that imply?  Other than handouts to his rich buddies, it appears that Trump isn't interested in helping anyone -- not surprising for a Gilded Plutocrat.

She wants 2.5 trillion to cover all sorts of wants and needs and they're at 1 trillion for needs only. Fuck her, we'll make do on own until she comes around to our way of thinking or finds herself coming to grips with the reality a pending financial disaster and an economic upheaval on her hands.  So, other than social security payouts and medicare coverage and an ideological preference, what do you have in common with a power hungry, greedy stuck up rich bitch from San Francisco? You forget that Trump was a rich man who took a major pay cut and lifestyle change to become our President unlike Obama who lived pay check to pay check before entering office as a US Senator and got richer and richer as he was in office. America knows, it's only some Democrats that haven't come to grips with what Americans have been telling them about their party for years.

I saw the breakdown of the GOP and Dem bills. Here's a very brief overview. Note the GOP's lack of support for local and state government, but generous support of private business. Please note, this is tax money not business loan money. Unneeded but offered as a free gift by the GOP are liability waivers, and education money is primarily focused on in-school instruction, COVID be damned.

The Dems focused on people and keeping things afloat. I hardly call that a fuck-you issue.

[Classic-Xer]

(09-01-2020, 10:19 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 01:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 09:55 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 02:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I've heard Pelosi was playing hardball and she won't settle for less than what she wants and feels she needs to maintain the status quo. So, I guess the blue states, blue cities. blue schools and what's left of their police forces have to go without until she becomes more reasonable  or scared about the aftermath. Like I said, we're mainly dealing with COVID19 and the financial aftermath is still  yet to come.

So far, neither Mitch McConnel nor Mark Meadows has offered an alternative, so what does that imply?  Other than handouts to his rich buddies, it appears that Trump isn't interested in helping anyone -- not surprising for a Gilded Plutocrat.

She wants 2.5 trillion to cover all sorts of wants and needs and they're at 1 trillion for needs only. Fuck her, we'll make do on own until she comes around to our way of thinking or finds herself coming to grips with the reality a pending financial disaster and an economic upheaval on her hands.  So, other than social security payouts and medicare coverage and an ideological preference, what do you have in common with a power hungry, greedy stuck up rich bitch from San Francisco? You forget that Trump was a rich man who took a major pay cut and lifestyle change to become our President unlike Obama who lived pay check to pay check before entering office as a US Senator and got richer and richer as he was in office. America knows, it's only some Democrats that haven't come to grips with what Americans have been telling them about their party for years.

I saw the breakdown of the GOP and Dem bills.  Here's a very brief overview.  Note the GOP's lack of support for local and state government, but generous support of private business.  Please note, this is tax money not business loan money.  Unneeded but offered as a free gift by the GOP are liability waivers, and education money is primarily focused on in-school instruction, COVID be damned.

The Dems focused on people and keeping things afloat.  I hardly call that a fuck-you issue.

So, who is going to be hurt the worst by Pelosi playing hardball during a national crisis? I don't have an interest in value of her home, her wealth or her personal well being either. Personally speaking, I'd rather see her financially hurt robbed, her personal property looted and destroyed and see her life on the line than some small business owner or home owner or working class person at this point. Are you familiar with attrition and familiar with how attrition works and familiar with the ramifications it will have on a group like the Liberal's who have set themselves up as being rulers? Lets see, we have a left wing cult vs 63 million individuals that live in the United States of America who identify with the term American and recognize America as its home who value all their rights and view the country and it's Constitution as theirs and view the American flag as theirs too. So, how long do you think that group is going to last now that it has become the focus? Is it OK to dehumanize a bunch of shit/ human animals terrorizing people, destroying property and murdering people? This is America, this isn't some third world shit hole or some European country with spoiled rotten kings and queens and aristocrats. I think you and the others better wake up and smell the coffee so to speak and come to grips with the fact that the other side has beat you to the punch and is on the verge of toppling a bunch of worthless rich people who never worked a day in their life. With that said, IT'S A FUCK YOU ISSUE.

[pbrower2a]

(08-31-2020, 01:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 09:55 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 02:21 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I've heard Pelosi was playing hardball and she won't settle for less than what she wants and feels she needs to maintain the status quo. So, I guess the blue states, blue cities. blue schools and what's left of their police forces have to go without until she becomes more reasonable  or scared about the aftermath. Like I said, we're mainly dealing with COVID19 and the financial aftermath is still  yet to come.

So far, neither Mitch McConnel nor Mark Meadows has offered an alternative, so what does that imply?  Other than handouts to his rich buddies, it appears that Trump isn't interested in helping anyone -- not surprising for a Gilded Plutocrat.

She wants 2.5 trillion to cover all sorts of wants and needs and they're at 1 trillion for needs only. (expletive deleted), we'll make do on own until she comes around to our way of thinking or finds herself coming to grips with the reality a pending financial disaster and an economic upheaval on her hands.  So, other than social security payouts and medicare coverage and an ideological preference, what do you have in common with a power hungry, greedy stuck up rich bitch from San Francisco? You forget that Trump was a rich man who took a major pay cut and lifestyle change to become our President unlike Obama who lived pay check to pay check before entering office as a US Senator and got richer and richer as he was in office. America knows, it's only some Democrats that haven't come to grips with what Americans have been telling them about their party for years.

Corporate America got huge aid to keep the economy from a tailspin reminiscent of the Great Depression through bipartisan support, and Corporate America paid us back by funding right-wing pols best described as mirror-image Marxists adept at creating suffering for others for their own gain. 

Nancy Pelosi is past eighty, and she is unlikely to change her core beliefs. Likewise Biden and McConnell. 

Donald Trump is a crony capitalist, and that is an indelible part of his character. I see little reason to believe that he will have any political relevance after January except as a scapegoat and as a model of how not to be President. And what is morally wrong with living paycheck-to-paycheck? In a corrupt plutocracy like ours, such is a badge of honor. Do you really admire Steve "Caught on a Yacht" Bannon?* Or such scum as pump-and-dump stock swindlers who fleece people of their retirement funds?

I see Barack Obama as a model of how to be President after this Crisis is over. The Mature Reactive, someone not full of himself like an arrogant Idealist and who knows that he can't get away with much, is exactly right for a society that relies upon thrift and small-business development instead of the bloating of vertically-integrated near-monopolies. We are headed to a high in which employment is a near-certainty among anyone with a work ethic, but in which small fortunes might be made by starting small businesses that do well. Small businesses make more people prosper than do corporate behemoths with executives paid lavishly to treat employees badly. Being overworked and underpaid but having no security is a raw deal for a worker, and that makes socialism attractive. 

Donald Trump has the classic faults of an Idealist generation: he is egocentric (selfish, ruthless, and arrogant) to the extreme, but he is also unlearned and intolerant, and if he is decisive he is decisively wrong. An Idealist generation can give an FDR, a Churchill, a Lincoln, a Juarez, a Mannerheim, a Gandhi, or an Adenauer; it can also give a Lenin. Trump so rends America that many conservatives are deciding to support Joe Biden. Rule of law, checks and balances, and governmental integrity are all that save us from a despot.  

*The Feds love to catch crooks indulging themselves at expensive resorts, mansions, and yachts. Figure that Federal prosecutors love to have such people as schoolteachers, librarians, engineers, and accountants on juries for mail fraud, wire fraud, or bank fraud that involve paper trails. Part of the evidence is documentation of bank accounts and high-value retail transactions.

[Classic-Xer]

(09-01-2020, 08:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-31-2020, 08:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. I'm still yapping and I plan to continue yapping until the shooting starts. Then, I'm free to start treating you and the others as enemies of the American state. Can't do much other than yap considering the way we are communicating and the distance between us. Do you know what I heard and watched on Fox news this evening? I heard about another killing that occurred in Portland and I watched as a Trump supporter was gunned down in cold blood by a member of Black Lives Matter as it occurred live and uncensored which has already been released and gone viral. Like I told you before, I don't give a shit if you're a cripple and have a mental disorder caused by a brain tumor and probably shouldn't be posting on a public forum about shit that you know little about at this particular time in our history as a nation. You're a big boy who has a right to make his own decisions and speak freely.

So long as you are aware that the yapping sounds quite a bit like 'Brack buck buck buck'.

Not against the American State.  I do occasionally reference the Cousin’s War perspective.  This traces back to the English Civil War, the American Revolution, and the American Civil War.  There are two cultures in conflict in all three wars, which evolved into the red blue divide today.  It all started with the Cavaliers who tended to settle near Virginia, and the Roundheads near New England.  Both elements have contributed to American culture, but both are American.  The more rural, conservative, Cavalier faction just got more tied up with the elitists and the racists.  I am more sympathetic with the progressive faction that wants to get rid of the worst elements of the culture every four score and seven years.  If the conservatives could be purged of the affinity for racism and a division of wealth, they would be a better contribution to what America ought to be.

In cold blood?  The way the coastal media is covering the event, the Trump supporters in pickup trucks, were firing paint guns into crowds of peaceful protesters.  Nothing was happening until the Trump caravan arrived.  By carrying both paint ball guns which were used freely and real weapons should their opponents respond, they were showing a premeditated desire to provoke and escalate.  Paint guns, for example, are traditionally used against people with eye protection, which  most of the protestors did not have.  Yet, the Trump supporters fired into the crowd.  Also, most people should have been aware that wherever any protestor protesting anything is present, the Boogaloo boys and their ilk will be there too.  They want to escalate the violence too, to start their boogaloo.  If you get two allegedly right wing factions eager to escalate violence on opposite ’sides’, guess what happens?  What are the local blue government, good cops and protestors exercising their First Amendment rights to do?

Violence isn’t a sport.  It ought to be a last resort.  People whose understanding of violence is limited to sporting events have to learn, have to grow up.  But if they live in the Fox bubble and hear only the red version of events, they can’t.

I heard that the kid who shot the so called peaceful protestors has a very strong case for self defense and I think it would be wise for a group of Supreme Court judges to get off their asses and start letting people know where they stand and share their decisions in advance because last thing we need as nation right now is a repeat of the 2000 election because there will be dead Liberal judges and dead Liberal lawyers and dead Liberal organizers and dead Liberal politicians and dead Liberal media people that we will be hearing about all over the place as a result this time.

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-01-2020, 01:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I heard that the kid who shot the so called peaceful protestors has a very strong case for self defense and I think it would be wise for a group of Supreme Court judges to get off their asses and start letting people know where they stand and share their decisions in advance because last thing we need as nation  right now is a repeat of the 2000 election because there will be dead Liberal judges and dead Liberal  lawyers and dead Liberal organizers and dead Liberal politicians and dead Liberal media people that we will be  hearing about   all over the place as a result this time.

Translation: Brack, buck buck buck.