The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Classic-Xer]

(10-20-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They als have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Beleive me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occassionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

Well said.

I have been mocking loud-mouth fools like the late Bob Enyart (a real creep -- homophobe, religious bigot, and anti-abortion crusader) who militantly opposed masks and ended up dead of COVID-19. Stupidity is not and never has been a survival value except in a place like Afghanistan, North Korea, or Syria today, where rational thought can get one killed.

Colin Powell reminds us: anyone with a weakened immune system is at grave risk from COVID-19 even from an exposure of the mildest sort. To be sure, with the myeloma and Parkinsonism that he had, one or the other would have killed him anyway. Someone failed to wear a mask. I wouldn't wish myeloma (I knew someone who died of it and it wasn't pretty), Parkinson's (it killed my mother), or COVID-19 on anyone.

I keep a mask handy.

Colin Powell was vaccinated but that didn't stop whatever COVID variant from killing him. Plus, he may/could have gotten it from a fellow vaccinated as well.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They als have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Beleive me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occassionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

You shouldn't be allowed to continue to do as you please either. So, what's it going to take to teach you the importance of everything else these days? A food shortage? A medicine shortage? A medical personal shortage? Do you have much of a life outside of here these days? The living/COVID survivors outnumber the COVID dead by a huge amount like 100,000,000 t0 750,000 so far. So, how much sympathy exists for selfish old people like you and the others? I have no sympathy or obligation to any of you at this point. Keep this mind as time goes on and the crisis's begin to add up and start taking heavier tolls on everyone else.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-19-2021, 06:01 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-19-2021, 03:51 PM)taramarie Wrote: Only speaking to bob atm so dont waste your time. Of course if bob continues to state i should not have basic rights he can bugger off too with the rest of you dictator boomers. If that is the way you guys are going, i cant wait till dictator boomers just die off.

My summation is that progressives are or ought to be in favor of democracy, human rights and equality.  So yes, I'm in favor of human rights.  What is dubious is when someone claims a right which infringes on the rights of others.  In the three American crisis we were fighting to dismiss kings, to not be victims of colonial imperialism, to free slaves, to allow the industrial revolution to proceed, to regulate the economy, and to move away from isolationism.  The current crisis includes reducing to eliminating structural racism, curing disease with honorable mentions to saving the environment and rebuilding infrastructure.

Not all of the above addresses democracy, human rights and equality directly.  In fact there is often an idealistic motivation which addresses the three, and an economic motivation which more directly involves the elites.

Now the issue of the moment seems to be in curing disease.  In generally, if one does not want to be cured, fine.  I won't oppose any supposed right to kill one's self.  But you have to balance individual rights against the general welfare of the people.  If for some reason you are against the vaccine this would be fine if you took all the other precautions, if you showed considerable care for the well being of others.  This does not generally seem to be the case.  At least in the US, the anti vaccination crowd is also generally the anti mask and anti other precaution folk.  I do not support the right to murder others.  Mandatory vaccines are supported by the Supreme Court and were a big part of past cures.  The right to murder people is entirely recently created and to my mind abhorrent and does not exist.

Now many governments seem to be looking for a monopoly on delivering vaccines on their own turf.  In your case, moving between countries and preferring the policy of the previous country is understandable, but you made a choice.  I can sympathize.  I can wish for an individual ability to chose from the many available treatments.  But, alas, we are not going to make government go away this crisis.  In the US, we have to choose between those treatments given emergency use authorization by the government.  You are stuck with a different territory.

But I will repeat the right to murder others is a delusion, does not exist.

Dude, there is no cure for COVID. I sure hope you don't believe that the vaccine you received is a cure for COVID.

[pbrower2a]

(10-20-2021, 09:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They als have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Beleive me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occassionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

Well said.

I have been mocking loud-mouth fools like the late Bob Enyart (a real creep -- homophobe, religious bigot, and anti-abortion crusader) who militantly opposed masks and ended up dead of COVID-19. Stupidity is not and never has been a survival value except in a place like Afghanistan, North Korea, or Syria today, where rational thought can get one killed.

Colin Powell reminds us: anyone with a weakened immune system is at grave risk from COVID-19 even from an exposure of the mildest sort. To be sure, with the myeloma and Parkinsonism that he had, one or the other would have killed him anyway. Someone failed to wear a mask. I wouldn't wish myeloma (I knew someone who died of it and it wasn't pretty), Parkinson's (it killed my mother), or COVID-19 on anyone.

I keep a mask handy.

Colin Powell was vaccinated but that didn't stop whatever COVID variant from killing him. Plus, he may/could have gotten it from a fellow vaccinated as well.

COVID-19 could bounce off something, including the clothing of someone fully vaccinated. It could bounce off my mask if I am wearing one. Remember that he had two conditions, one of which would have killed him if the other didn't had it not been for COVID-19.

So far as I know, my immune system is fine, and with two inoculations (I am close to the time for getting a booster), a SARS-2 virus is likely to end up dead if it gets into my body. I wash my hands frequently enough... I count to thirty to get twenty seconds. Soap rips the protective membrane of the virus, and water and soap send the shredded virus to its doom in the plumbing system or the septic tank.

Inoculation does not kill the virus magically, but it allows a sturdy immune system to kill the virus before it can reproduce. Colin Powell needed much more than an inoculation to keep him from dying of COVID-19 -- like not having Parkinson's or myeloma.

[pbrower2a]

(10-20-2021, 10:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They als have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Beleive me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occassionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

You shouldn't be allowed to continue to do as you please either. So, what's it going to take to teach you the importance of everything else these days? A food shortage? A medicine shortage? A medical personal shortage? Do you have much of a life outside of here these days? The living/COVID survivors outnumber the COVID dead by a huge amount like 100,000,000 t0 750,000 so far. So, how much sympathy exists for selfish old people like you and the others? I have no sympathy or obligation to any of you at this point. Keep this mind as time goes on and the crisis's begin to add up and start taking heavier tolls on everyone else.

Dude, COVID-19 kills about 1.5% of those that contract it -- directly, that is. Ask yourself: would you take a drive if you had a 1.5% chance of dying while on that trip? Death from rattlesnake bite applies at a similar rate to people bitten. Would you dodge a rattler?

COVID-19 is connected also to some unwelcome consequences:

1. diabetes -- diabetes is a medical catastrophe because it causes other destruction of one's health and typically shortens life.
2. organ damage -- lungs, kidneys, liver. I don't smoke and I drink little. (Supposedly a little alcohol is good for reducing the risk of stroke, so a little alcohol on occasion isn't all bad).
3. cognitive loss -- reduction in intelligence, which is a deterioration of the quality of life.
4. sexual dysfunction -- if the other three don't get you, then maybe this one will.

Getting COVID-19 might not kill you outright, but it can make your life miserable.

My paternal grandmother died of complications of diabetes. I saw it happen, and it was degrading. I've seen someone die of cirrhosis, and my father told me that while his brother-in-law was dying in a teaching hospital, the instructor told his students that one of the worst cirrhotic livers that he had ever seen was a consequence of being an alcoholic for fifty years. The schmuck started drinking as a teenager and didn't quit drinking until it was too late.

There's no warning about cancer or birth defects, but I would not be surprised.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-20-2021, 10:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, there is no cure for COVID. I sure hope you don't believe that the vaccine you received is a cure for COVID.

I turns a deadly disease into the equivalent of the common flu. It has got me out of the forced isolation of last year. It's cure enough.

[pbrower2a]

(10-20-2021, 10:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, there is no cure for COVID. I sure hope you don't believe that the vaccine you received is a cure for COVID.

It's not a cure; it's a prevention. That's how we deal with smallpox and polio.

Highway departments do much to reduce driving errors that cause vehicle crashes at considerable cost. State troopers, who are not cheap labor, set up radar traps for speeders who contribute to an inordinate number of crashes. (Did you realize that a fourth of all speeders caught are drunk? Speed and intoxication -- now that is a lethal pair!)

Highway engineers and state and local police do their best to prevent accidents by reducing errors by drivers and removing from the highways people unfit to drive cars. We have drivers' training intended to scare youth out of breaking traffic laws. I have reported two drunk drivers in the last five years over a cell phone. I have pulled over to the side of the road when I had an indication that sleep apnea was about to get me (I get about two minutes' warning). I have stopped ten minutes away from home to avoid the risk of falling asleep at the wheel for a thirty-minute nap.  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as said Ben Franklin.

Better a thirty-minute nap at the parking lot of a Dollar General than a thirty-day stay at the hospital.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-20-2021, 11:55 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 09:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They als have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Beleive me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occassionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

Well said.

I have been mocking loud-mouth fools like the late Bob Enyart (a real creep -- homophobe, religious bigot, and anti-abortion crusader) who militantly opposed masks and ended up dead of COVID-19. Stupidity is not and never has been a survival value except in a place like Afghanistan, North Korea, or Syria today, where rational thought can get one killed.

Colin Powell reminds us: anyone with a weakened immune system is at grave risk from COVID-19 even from an exposure of the mildest sort. To be sure, with the myeloma and Parkinsonism that he had, one or the other would have killed him anyway. Someone failed to wear a mask. I wouldn't wish myeloma (I knew someone who died of it and it wasn't pretty), Parkinson's (it killed my mother), or COVID-19 on anyone.

I keep a mask handy.

Colin Powell was vaccinated but that didn't stop whatever COVID variant from killing him. Plus, he may/could have gotten it from a fellow vaccinated as well.

COVID-19 could bounce off something, including the clothing of someone fully vaccinated. It could bounce off my mask if I am wearing one. Remember that he had two conditions, one of which would have killed him if the other didn't had it not been for COVID-19.

So far as I know, my immune system is fine, and with two inoculations (I am close to the time for getting a booster), a SARS-2 virus is likely to end up dead if it gets into my body. I wash my hands frequently enough... I count to thirty to get twenty seconds. Soap rips the protective membrane of the virus, and water and soap send the shredded virus to its doom in the plumbing system or the septic tank.

Inoculation does not kill the virus magically, but it allows a sturdy immune system to kill the virus before it can reproduce. Colin Powell needed much more than an inoculation to keep him from dying of COVID-19 -- like not having Parkinson's or myeloma.

COVID doesn't bounce off stuff or bounce off your mask either. Yes, Colin Powell was living on borrowed time like most of the people who have died from COVID so far. So, how many of you are living on borrowed time ( Living off the advancement of modern medicine) like Colin Powell. As I recall, you had a horrible reaction to your first shot. I can somewhat relate, I had a horrible reaction to my first bout of COVID before we knew anything about COVID at the time.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-19-2021, 08:19 PM)taramarie Wrote: You seem to assume things of me that you have no proof about. I did not expect you to start guessing without any proof to your claims.

They've had a very bad habit of doing dangerous stuff like that with other people for many years now. They've pretty much dug themselves a hole that they won't be able to get out of at this point. I say dangerous because people are known to get hurt for doing what they've been doing  other people on a regular basis.

[Eric the Green]

(10-20-2021, 10:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2021, 01:38 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2021, 10:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have nothing to say to people who are ok with removal of freedoms. I should be allowed to go to a grocery store and go back to my country of origin vaccine or not. You guys are no better than those who allowed blacks to have less freedoms.

Actually no, you shouldn't be allowed to do as you please, if you are a threat to others.  I suspect you will be considered a threat in NZ, because the vaccination rate there is still low and you are an unknown quantity arriving from the outside.  They also have rights, and the rights on many outweigh the rights of the few.

Believe me, we have far too many in the US making similar arguments, getting others sick and occasionally leading to thier deaths. I have no sympathy with the argument you're making.

You shouldn't be allowed to continue to do as you please either. So, what's it going to take to teach you the importance of everything else these days? A food shortage? A medicine shortage? A medical personal shortage? Do you have much of a life outside of here these days? The living/COVID survivors outnumber the COVID dead by a huge amount like 100,000,000 to 750,000 so far. So, how much sympathy exists for selfish old people like you and the others? I have no sympathy or obligation to any of you at this point. Keep this mind as time goes on and the crisis's begin to add up and start taking heavier tolls on everyone else.

You Republicans thrive on inaccurate or misinformation. It's 35,000,000, not 100,000,000 survivors. And you think 750,000 deaths is OK.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

You Republicans, you covid and vaccine deniers, you supporters of oligarchy at any cost, are the ones whose existence takes a heavy, heavy toll on others. I am sad for my country and the world. Because of you and you guys, our nation cannot take responsibility for ourselves and our lives. If there was a devil, it would be YOU.

[Eric the Green]

(10-21-2021, 11:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-19-2021, 08:19 PM)taramarie Wrote: You seem to assume things of me that you have no proof about. I did not expect you to start guessing without any proof to your claims.

They've had a very bad habit of doing dangerous stuff like that with other people for many years now. They've pretty much dug themselves a hole that they won't be able to get out of at this point. I say dangerous because people are known to get hurt for doing what they've been doing  other people on a regular basis.

You vaccine deniers, you believers in choice at the expense of all others, you are digging a hole for all of us, and we are all falling into it. YOU irresponsible embeciles, you do not value life, our life today, or any life in the future. You are contemptible.

[pbrower2a]

(10-22-2021, 11:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: Good bye guys i will never be back here as im having the account closed. Good luck xer for your countrys future and freedom for all. Good bye and good luck.

Farewell! I only hope the best for you. You have been through a lot.

[David Horn]

(10-22-2021, 11:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 11:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: Good bye guys i will never be back here as im having the account closed. Good luck xer for your countrys future and freedom for all. Good bye and good luck.

Farewell! I only hope the best for you. You have been through a lot.

She asked to be banned, so her departure is permanent.  Sad, but ultimately her choice.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-23-2021, 10:44 AM)David Horn Wrote: She asked to be banned, so her departure is permanent.  Sad, but ultimately her choice.

Meeting somebody is a big deal. Expecting good policy after moving from NZ to the Balkans is not. But she could have just stopped visiting the site. That she instead asked to be banned indicates to me that (surprise) emotions are involved.

[Eric the Green]

(10-23-2021, 12:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-23-2021, 10:44 AM)David Horn Wrote: She asked to be banned, so her departure is permanent.  Sad, but ultimately her choice.

Meeting somebody is a big deal.  Expecting good policy after moving from NZ to the Balkans is not.  But she could have just stopped visiting the site.  That she instead asked to be banned indicates to me that (surprise) emotions are involved.

She can always come back if she wants just by using a different name, like our libertarian spammer does. It's not much of a ban, just like our "ignore" function doesn't mean much because we can just click on "see this post." I'm not complaining, just clearing the air a bit.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-22-2021, 01:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-21-2021, 11:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-19-2021, 08:19 PM)taramarie Wrote: You seem to assume things of me that you have no proof about. I did not expect you to start guessing without any proof to your claims.

They've had a very bad habit of doing dangerous stuff like that with other people for many years now. They've pretty much dug themselves a hole that they won't be able to get out of at this point. I say dangerous because people are known to get hurt for doing what they've been doing  other people on a regular basis.

You vaccine deniers, you believers in choice at the expense of all others, you are digging a hole for all of us, and we are all falling into it. YOU irresponsible embeciles, you do not value life, our life today, or any life in the future. You are contemptible.

You guys are proving to be very good at digging your own holes.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-22-2021, 01:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-21-2021, 11:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-19-2021, 08:19 PM)taramarie Wrote: You seem to assume things of me that you have no proof about. I did not expect you to start guessing without any proof to your claims.

They've had a very bad habit of doing dangerous stuff like that with other people for many years now. They've pretty much dug themselves a hole that they won't be able to get out of at this point. I say dangerous because people are known to get hurt for doing what they've been doing  other people on a regular basis.

You vaccine deniers, you believers in choice at the expense of all others, you are digging a hole for all of us, and we are all falling into it. YOU irresponsible embeciles, you do not value life, our life today, or any life in the future. You are contemptible.

According the information you gave me, it's actually 46,300,000 reported cases resulting in 750,000 deaths (1-2% of reported cases) so far. I assume that you assume that all cases have been reported to authorities so far. Me, I assume there are about as many unreported cases as there are reported cases like most medical experts these days. It's kind of funny how today's misinformation as you say or as your told becomes tomorrows truth/fact that you have no alternative other than to ignore these days.

Idealistically speaking, one death is to many. Realistically speaking, 0-1% /1-2% death rate is acceptable and does not justify the removal of our individual rights. I don't care if you and the others hand over your rights in exchange for peace of mind. You're right, I'm the devil according to your warped Liberal mind. You're about as warped minded as the Islamic radicals who refer to us as the Great Satin. So, get in line with them.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-23-2021, 10:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 11:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 11:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: Good bye guys i will never be back here as im having the account closed. Good luck xer for your countrys future and freedom for all. Good bye and good luck.

Farewell! I only hope the best for you. You have been through a lot.

She asked to be banned, so her departure is permanent.  Sad, but ultimately her choice.

Her departure is your loss.

[David Horn]

(10-24-2021, 02:56 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-23-2021, 10:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 11:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 11:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: Good bye guys i will never be back here as im having the account closed. Good luck xer for your countrys future and freedom for all. Good bye and good luck.

Farewell! I only hope the best for you. You have been through a lot.

She asked to be banned, so her departure is permanent.  Sad, but ultimately her choice.

Her departure is your loss.

OK, but how so?  You certainly weren't a fan when she was here.

[Eric the Green]

(10-24-2021, 02:49 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-22-2021, 01:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-21-2021, 11:15 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-19-2021, 08:19 PM)taramarie Wrote: You seem to assume things of me that you have no proof about. I did not expect you to start guessing without any proof to your claims.

They've had a very bad habit of doing dangerous stuff like that with other people for many years now. They've pretty much dug themselves a hole that they won't be able to get out of at this point. I say dangerous because people are known to get hurt for doing what they've been doing  other people on a regular basis.

You vaccine deniers, you believers in choice at the expense of all others, you are digging a hole for all of us, and we are all falling into it. YOU irresponsible embeciles, you do not value life, our life today, or any life in the future. You are contemptible.

According the information you gave me, it's actually 46,300,000 reported cases resulting in 750,000 deaths (1-2% of reported cases) so far. I assume that you assume that all cases have been reported to authorities so far. Me, I assume there are about as many unreported cases as there are reported cases like most medical experts these days. It's kind of funny how today's misinformation as you say or as your told becomes tomorrows truth/fact that you have no alternative other than to ignore these days.

Idealistically speaking, one death is to many. Realistically speaking, 0-1% /1-2% death rate is acceptable and does not justify the removal of our individual rights. I don't care if you and the others hand over your rights in exchange for peace of mind. You're right, I'm the devil according to your warped Liberal mind. You're about as warped minded as the Islamic radicals who refer to us as the Great Satin. So, get in line with them.

If there are more cases than reported, then there are also more deaths than reported. With that correction, I would not disagree.

Realistically, 750,000 deaths is way, way too many. Far more than was used to justify going to war after 9-11 and killing about 500,000 people, or were killed at Pearl Harbor used to justify killing millions.

The fact is that the USA has more vaccine deniers than most other countries, except maybe Russia. And that's why we have far more cases and deaths than most other countries.

If you don't want vaccine mandates, fine, just do without, make others sick, and do without many privileges. I guess you feel the right to make people sick is an individual right, just as you feel having so many guns that many other people die is your individual right. Pardon me, I don't agree.

I would like to be the Great Satin; it's a nice color.

I'm fine with your right to speak. I doubt free speech would be protected if the politicians you support were to gain full power.