05-23-2016, 03:43 PM
(05-23-2016, 11:11 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:It appears to me that others( including the 'secular group') are defining what they consider Christianity to be. If a specific Christian has a different view, then religious freedom can become just a myth.(05-22-2016, 05:13 PM)radind Wrote: As I mentioned before, I have no use for any large Christian organizations and my views are my own. I think that the rights of the unborn are being ignored and don't see how supporter of abortion could be considered Christian.
There are many things that could be done to reduce abortion, but the death of the unborn babies remains.
There are other concerns( abortion is just a clear line of demarcation). It is easy to say compromise without recognising that religious liberty has no meaning for Christians in this secular country. Calling this a 'political culture war' assumes that Christian values have no meaning for the secular camp. It is closer to a religious war in effect.
It is both, I am sure. But it's a war we don't need. I don't see where Jesus said to oppose abortion. Quote me chapter and verse? And claiming that fetuses are "babies" is not a religious statement; it's largely a scientific one. No, it's not a demarcation of Christianity. It's just a conviction that you and others have, and I understand it, and that you will continue to uphold it; but it's mostly orchestrated by church authority, even if it's not in your case.
Today, "Christian" largely means what Church Authority says it is. Very few people in America today understand what Jesus was really teaching and demonstrating. In most cases, they advocate the opposite.
"Secular" means that the state does not enforce or establish a religion. It is well known that this secular principle is GOOD for freedom of religion, AND for religion generally. There is no more religious country than the USA, and I expect this to continue, despite the passing trends among civic generations. The same "humanist" wave happened in the thirties, and the GI or Greatest Generation were somewhat less religious too. But even so, in the 1950s America became festooned with churches, which is how one writer put it (Howard Zinn? I forget).
The phrase ‘book, chapter, verse’ remind me of discussions with friends at church. I call this the engineering approach to interpretation.
Here is one article.
Quote:http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/e...bible.html
… "the Bible clearly prohibits the killing of innocent people (Exodus 20:13). All that is necessary to prove a biblical prohibition of abortion is to demonstrate that the Bible considers the unborn to be human beings.
Personhood in the Bible
A number of ancient societies opposed abortion, [2] but the ancient Hebrew society had the clearest reasons for doing so because of its foundations in the scriptures. The Bible teaches that men and women are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). As the climax of God's creation mankind has an intrinsic worth far greater than that of the animal kingdom placed under His care. Throughout the Scriptures, personhood is never measured by age, stage of development, or mental, physical, or social skills. Personhood is endowed by God at the moment of creation - before which there was not a human being and after which there is. That moment of creation can be nothing other than the moment of conception.
The Hebrew word used in the Old Testament to refer to the unborn (Exodus 21:22-25) is yeled, a word that “generally indicates young children, but may refer to teens or even young adults.” [3] The Hebrews did not have or need a separate word for unborn children. They were just like any other children, only younger. In the Bible there are references to born children and unborn children, but there is no such thing as a potential, incipient, or “almost” child.”…
… whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)