skipped an archetype like time before last?

[Eric the Green]

(05-04-2019, 01:26 AM)TheNomad Wrote:

(05-04-2019, 12:15 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Strictly speaking, slavery was more an institution than a technology

I don't think I agree.  Technology is basically a resource.  A resource harnessed by someone or a thing (a corp) for financial gain. 

Slave = the modern equivalent of an employee? 

Think about it first.  The most efficient way to use the TECH in the scenario is to own human beings to do work for you AND NOT PAY THEM.

I dont think anyone can really say that isnt the most effective way to use HUMAN LABOR as TECH.

So, if you have a TECH available to you that is not available to others, that is a clear advantage in the capitalistic ideology.  ANY tech.  If someone has access to fresh water when their competitor does not, it's an advantage.  Just being random there.  To the basest level, the "effort" or ......... business .......... cannot thrive above its competitors if RESOURCES are not equal.

Confederacy was based on the idea they had the resources of HUMAN BEINGS on their farms and in their businesses who did work for them without pay.  While contrast that to other "competitors in business" who did not have that same resource (they did not/chose not to have human beings work without pay).

Destroy the advantage (the TECH) and you have destroyed the Confederacy. 

You must be willing to see this in the light of capitalism, business and TECHNOLOGY.  When a company develops a new microchip, they have an advantage over all other competitors.  They thrive in the marketplace.  Until other corps are able (by law) to use and make those microchips themselves to even the playing field.

Since I am interested in understanding how the (civil war 4T??) compares to the current one NOW (because I do not think our 4T is like the WWII era Turning)....... how do I compare the TECH and the idea the Confederacy was laid waste when a huge "indictment" and MORAL CONDEMNATION was made of a thing which gave an advantage in our civilization that now longer exists.

I know, that's a bit much bit I run on 14 cylinders. 

WHAT in the CW Turning is like ours now?

I am looking at the Civil War Era being like ours.......... but maybe without the physical war.  An ideological one, grand and maybe as large in some ways as some of the "reconstruction" of the CW period.  What are we facing now that is like that time?  What are going to be the emerging morals that change the landscape of our America?  What are some of the HUGE referendums coming for us now that will fundamentally alter our civilization?

Thoughtful questions.

Ours is like the CW turning in obvious ways; we are largely split between two factions identified by colors. The liberal faction now as then is represented by blue, and the conservative faction was gray then and red now. The colors this time are based on network TV election day maps as the states' vote is determined, established by the time of the 2000 election, and also established in language at that time. Blue and gray were different soldier uniforms in the early years of the war. But the states involved are substantially the same, with the addition of new states in the west. The war was preceded by a long period of increasing tension, polarization, failed compromises and some severely-incompetent presidents (Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan/W. Bush and Trump). The 4th turnings were preceded by wars of conquest by the USA in 1846 and 2003, which increased the polarization of the country, and were precipitated by a worldwide depression in 1846-48 and 2008-2010. The depression and crop failures abroad led to greatly-increased immigration to the USA and elsewhere, with resulting controversy and fear of foreigners in the USA in both periods. Despite the depression, advances in technology helped launch an economic boom in the following years, especially on the Blue side.

The Yankees of the North (the Blues) already had an advantage over the South of Dixie (the Grays), because the former was an emerging industrial society and the latter was an aristocratic feudal state based on agriculture. Slavery was the only way the South could keep up with the North's prosperity at all, and so slavery was cranked up in the years leading up to the civil war. Defeat meant the decline of slave labor and the gradual increase of industry in the South over many decades.

Today, the Blues retain the advantage, but now it has high tech, while the Reds (South, mostly-southern Rust Belt and plains, etc.) are partly still agriculture-based and partly based on the same industries that boomed after 1850 but are now in decline. 

You can say that the previous civil war was a battle between the incipient industrial Orange Meme (a concept of Spiral Dynamics of Integral Philosophy, representing Achievement, classical liberal values and rationalism) and the Blue Meme (traditional agriculture-based medieval feudal authoritarian meme). Today's cold civil war is between the Green and Lemon-colored Memes (the partly-socialist industrial and high tech/ecological memes) against the Orange (now conceived almost exclusively as free-market libertarian) and Blue (agricultural and now conceived largely as the Religious Right and xenophobic). Obviously, the colors of these symbols are different.