Spiral Dynamics and where we are in history

[Eric the Green]

(07-05-2019, 02:03 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Now I see that spiral dynamics matches my political colour code well:

Red = Nationalist/Fascist (on my chart, Blue)
Blue = Traditionalist (Black)
Orange = Classical Liberal (Yellow)
Lemon = Scientific Socialist (Red)
Green = Countercultural (Purple)

Though I'm not sure if the nationalists aren't a variety of Lemon, another form of state capitalism only with a more military-based structure. Their militarism is definitely a throwback to the Red stage, but their views on culture are surprisingly close to Lemons' scientism. It's especially visible in the Arab world, where "national liberation" movements like Baathism aimed at Westernizing their nations culturally in order to expunge the influence of Blue theocrats. But even Hitler was quite modernist in many ways.

That's a good match. 

Historically, nationalism was part of classical liberalism when the Orange meme was in the ascendant (from the American and French Revolutions to 1848), but folds in with scientific socialism and collective industrialism once the Lemon meme has the momentum (from then to the 1960s). Although these two sides of the Lemon meme were enemies to the death, they both shared the belief in mechanistic science and evolution to a degree, seeing Darwinian evolution as central to their view of history and struggle, and both strongly emphasized the collective over the individual.

Red originally was militaristic imperialism, and did not consist of nations but of empires and military city-states; fascism as we know it is a modern movement, but which appropriates red as part of its methods and ways; as did communism to a degree as well.