(02-07-2020, 01:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(02-06-2020, 05:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(02-06-2020, 11:41 AM)David Horn Wrote:(02-06-2020, 06:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: One idea missing is that the migration is allowing people with more sympathy with western values a chance to westernize by simply moving west. It does allow a few terrorists to leak in, but for the most part those with heavy autocratic, religious and tribal values are the ones that stay behind. The result? The places left behind like Syria and Iraq are getting worse by reverse mitosis. The old values are slowly being concentrated.
Excellent points, but how does that play in the long run? After all, Afghanistan is still pretty tribal, and some of the other 'stans', even moreso. If the educated and openminded decide to leave, does the left-behind group degrade into some pre-modern tribal state, anarchy or something else entirely? I'll be honest here: I haven't the foggiest idea.
We're seeing similar activity in Central America, so this isn't a Muslim thing. Doing nothing seems cruel, but doing something stupid is probably worse.
It seems to take centuries for a civilization to switch say from Agricultural Age to Industrial Age culture. The transitions are often ugly, with civil wars and revolutions in the west, Napoleon and Fascism in Europe, communism in Asia.
I don’t expect it to be any easier in the Middle East. Switching from tribal, religious and autocratic systems to modern isn’t easy. You almost have to sit back and let the holders of the old values die off.
No easy solution available.
The Jupiter religious Blue medieval meme, the Mars imperial Red bronze age meme, and the Saturn royalist Brown renaissance meme, are all later expressions and permutations of the Venus agricultural Venus meme of the neo-lithic age. It is a big switch indeed to transition beyond all these stages to the Uranus liberal Orange modernist early-industrial age meme at one fell swoop; not to mention to transcend the Mercury tribal Purple hunter-gatherer meme too.
Of course, usually all societies have some traces of the past stages of history within them and within their peoples. But the Middle East does seem unusually backward and abundantly mired in these Tribal and Agricultural Age cultures.
It's not likely that waiting will make the transitions happen, though the die-offs could speed it along if young people there are sufficiently tuned-in via their aspirations to modern and post-modern stages. We can see how violent the change has been so far, and how cruel the resistance to it by authority. Of course, as Syria demonstrated, the upholders of the old order can simply kill the young modernists off or exile them. The effect so far has been to arouse old tribal and nationalist hatreds in the places in Europe where they have fled. Time will tell if this regressed Europe is a passing phase. But it already tore the UK apart from the EU, which could mire down the UK in economic decline and national implosion for a long time, and subject the EU to possible break-up or domination by regressive societies where hatred and autocracy are making a comeback.
-- my ruling planet's color is brown
ugh! What a shitty color (pun intended) l'm sticking with deep crimson,which I've seen in some booksRe: Brexit- l belong 2 an online international lrish heritage group & Brexit frequently comes up. Interestingly the issue is divided along ethnic lines with the English being the Brexiteers & the Gaels being the Remainers. Now these aren't absolutes, just how the vast majority of these populations roll, in fact, 2 prominent English Remainers r the Queen & Prince Charles. Which is y Teresa May lost her job- in her attempts 2 please the Queen, she was delaying the, ahem, "will of the ppl" overlong.
Anyhow, in Scotland the results of Brexit have brought up the possibility of Scotexit 2.0 & this time it has a good chance of succeeding. Scotexit failed largely due to $. As in what was the currency gonna be. Saying they would continue 2 use the £ wasn't good enough bcuz that was totally dependent on the Crown, who was against Scotexit & probably wouldn't allow the Scots 2 continue using the £. But this time around the Scots, remaining in the EU, would use the euro 4 currency, which makes Scotexit 2.0 much more of a possiblity
Meanwhile, Northern Ireland has been enjoying a "soft border" with the rest of the island. This, in theory would go away once the UK formally splits from the EU. Needless 2 say the Irish don't want a hard border & the issue is uniting the island like no other issue b4 it. It's high time the island was finally reunited.. It was only divided, out of spite by Lloyd George 100 yrs ago when lreland won its independence, keeping the 6 counties so the Brits would have a thumbprint on the island & paving the way 4 the troubles. Btw, Lloyd George is the same assclown who sabotaged Wilson's WW1 peace treaty, paving the way 4 Hitler. Anyhow. NI has always been the UK stepchild, lagging behind economically, w/high rates of unemployment & poverty, & the London govt unwilling 2 invest much in it. It's been 100 yrs, & it's time 2 let NI go, where it will fare better as part of a united Ireland. I have 2 agree with this sentiment
my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020